Mental stats are more valuable, yeah. For example:

Got it, you meant valuable and not rare. Not trying to be pedantic, I honestly thought you were talking rarity, just making that clear.

Con has dropped in my estimation since Rihaku revealed it doesn't allow for greater spamming of Fellstrike. I guess it only helping prevent death is going to have to be good enough. Doesn't seem fair; if only the good die young, Con is pretty much making us evil.
 
I think the +Gisena is more valuable than a +Zea both because we chose the double Zea option last vote and because Gisena is best girl and helps us more directly. King Fisher seems pretty good for 1 arete since we get another avenue of accretion gain, possibly a hunger proc and whatever the mystery box is. Also probably more Gisena screen time.

Substantially is garbage in comparison giving us an unavoidable mid tier debuff and some food which would be relevant if we'd taken feast earlier but seems mostly pointless now. +Zea obviously worse than +Gisena.

None is the boring option where we spend nothing but also gain nothing basically wasting our time.

I'm not too sure about that; it stands to reason that each additional + is more valuable the more +s you already have. So going from ++++ to +++++ means more than going from + to ++. Especially since five +s is when we can expect stuff. Of course, it could be that going from GIsena+ to Gisena++ beats going from Letrizia++++ to Letrizia+++++, but i don't think that's the case.

Hunger proc itself has minimal value of 2xEcho, so four stats, or 2.65 Arete, so they are actually more valuable than 2 Arete upgrade. Something to think about when talking about short term options.

Also, I wonder if Gisena's own Coalesce is actually Rank thing Letrizia talks about. It would be useful if Letrizia could allow us to upgrade Gisena..
Got it, you meant valuable and not rare. Not trying to be pedantic, I honestly thought you were talking rarity, just making that clear.

Con has dropped in my estimation since Rihaku revealed it doesn't allow for greater spamming of Fellstrike. I guess it only helping prevent death is going to have to be good enough. Doesn't seem fair; if only the good die young, Con is pretty much making us evil.
Ah, sorry, I was thinking in RGP gear rarity for some reason, where rarer=better.
 
[X] Spill
[X] Of Fishermen, A King

Just clearly the options I want to read. Rihaku fight scenes are fun, but it'd be nice to have one that isn't so tense. And Letrizia's a fun character, plus telling her about our Affliction could get us some interesting info (does the Human Sphere know about humans getting cursed?).
Also, since Gorgey has the same Affliction, a) Lettie shouldn't be crazy freaked out about exposure, and b) if she is she's a hypocrite, since she's presumably been exposing us to the same risk.
 
Undying Echo is very basic stat upgrade that has no specific synergies with anything, so it allows us to easily map Arete to value - in this particular case, we get 1 point of Con for 0.66 Arete. Argument could be made that Con is somewhat more rare of a stat and that getting three costs more, but lets ignore that for now. On the other hand, you have Slumber of Aeons, which increases our slumber by 1 hour but allows us to save time, and generate approximately 2 stats per month, doubling. After fifteen months that would be 8 stats, which would be approximately 5.5 Arete of value.
I do note that Undying Echo has been suggested by Rihaku as a pre-req to options which cost more Arete. It might be a case of PK: Having 1 Beyond option, 1 Further Beyond option and 1 Even Further Beyond option. I mean we never actually saw the power of those options, but they were probably pretty good, the first B option we just straight upgraded to Extrusion. It might be similar to Beyond Ego, has synergies with other B option. I don't expect us to hit 9 Arete to try for the Evening Sky/King of Thieves combo tho. That's crazy.
 
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Everyone that doesn't want fisher king we need to decide: none or sustainable? I don't care very much which, but none fits the character better. Hunger would rather sleep.

For everyone picking it: please consider the marginal cost of 1 arete at the moment, as it is likely we will be slightly shy of getting a 7 arete option if we spend one here.
 
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Just clearly the options I want to read. Rihaku fight scenes are fun, but it'd be nice to have one that isn't so tense. And Letrizia's a fun character, plus telling her about our Affliction could get us some interesting info (does the Human Sphere know about humans getting cursed?).
Also, since Gorgey has the same Affliction, a) Lettie shouldn't be crazy freaked out about exposure, and b) if she is she's a hypocrite, since she's presumably been exposing us to the same risk.
Yeah the real reason to pick Fisher King is to read an epic fishing scene. I want to see Hunger fishing like he's the protagonist of a sports anime.
 
I do note that Undying Echo has been suggested by Rihaku as a pre-req to options which cost more Arete. It might be a case of PK: Having 1 Beyond option, 1 Further Beyond option and 1 Even Further Beyond option. I mean we never actually saw the power of those options, but they were probably pretty good, the first B option we just straight upgraded to Extrusion. It might be similar to Beyond Ego, has synergies with other B option. I don't expect us to hit 9 Arete to try for the Evening Sky/King of Thieves combo tho. That's crazy.
PK was powerful because it offered us discount, same with Truth. You spend 7BPs you get FREE EFB effect as well.
Fishing does not get us Catharsis. Or extend the lifespans of our companions(Estimated time to Gisena Death: 25 years).
Sorceress have extended lifespans and she can expand hers by leveling her Grace. Additionally, her Nullity likely protects her from drain anyway.
 
Sorceress have extended lifespans and she can expand hers by leveling her Grace. Additionally, her Nullity likely protects her from drain anyway.

She still loses 10% of it per year. No matter how long her lifespan is, she'll still be a husk of her former self in 20ish years. And leveling her Grace is dependent on us discovering and pursuing the ability to produce Findross with Accretion. Do you really think we won't get distracted?

300*.9^20 = 36.4729963772 year lifespan.
 
Fishing does not get us Catharsis. Or extend the lifespans of our companions(Estimated time to Gisena Death: 25 years).
While Rihaku hasn't said explicitly he pretty strongly hinted that assumption is... unwise.
We should hopefully be able to afford Completion as well as fishing thereby sidestepping the issue for two years. Besides Gisena can provide Curse mitigation herself on top of what we pick. That should buy us enough time to pursue the options to increase her sorceress level.

Besides fishing probably is cathartic! It's some nice leisure time vigorously pursuing a hobby! It'll also give us some happy memories to burn for power when we inevitably have to dust off our forbidden secret technique.
 
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While Rihaku hasn't said explicitly he pretty strongly hinted that assumption is... unwise.
Why? It's our Curse, not hers. Curse is about having to consume a ton of life force and suffering if can't get enough. Meanwhile, Nullity can explicitly affect Curses.
She still loses 10% of it per year. No matter how long her lifespan is, she'll still be a husk of her former self in 20ish years. And leveling her Grace is dependent on us discovering and pursuing the ability to produce Findross with Accretion. Do you really think we won't get distracted?

300*.9^20 = 36.4729963772 year lifespan.
Before anything else, your math assumes that lifespan is static thing that can't be added to. There is no reason to believe that every living thing is born with finite amount of lifeforce they spend through the life, that's just silly.
 
Why? It's our Curse, not hers. Curse is about having to consume a ton of life force and suffering if can't get enough. Meanwhile, Nullity can explicitly affect Curses.
I don't recall Gisena having a passive nullity aura that's active all the time so her powers might not protect her. That's assuming it's a steady drain over time that we don't notice. If it's a once a year effect and we can tell when it happens then we can just give her a heads up to blast us or use her nova.
 
PK was powerful because it offered us discount, same with Truth. You spend 7BPs you get FREE EFB effect as well.
Undying could be like that or Liminal though. Spend 2 Arete now, then upgrade for 5 Arete, or alternative pick in conjunction with another option, poof: hidden synergy unlocked!

Mostly, though, I'm going by what Rihaku said here:
Undying Echo itself may be boring, but it may also be the prerequisite to more interesting things... And while it's mechanically basic, it opens up a lot of options in play. Being significantly more resilient means you can take on greater risks and also benefit from symmetrical debuffs like poison clouds or explosions. Something Gisena might find quite useful!
Plus, there's the standard 'Even if the singular the arete spending wasn't efficient, if we get more picks it will have overall been efficient'. Essentially, if we got an extra successful encounter and an extra pick due to selecting Undying Echo, then we'd have gotten 2.5 picks instead of 1.5 picks for the 2 Arete, which would make it extremely efficient.
Sorceress have extended lifespans and she can expand hers by leveling her Grace. Additionally, her Nullity likely protects her from drain anyway.
While the former is true I am not sure about the latter. Seram's Brand of the Wretched affected Porcelain (who had Magic Resist) and Gisena (As far as we know). Plus, like, if true then curses would be steadily less relevent as one leveled, since all the entities would have increasingly more powerful curse resist.
 
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Undying could be like that or Liminal though. Spend 2 Arete now, then upgrade for 5 Arete, or alternative pick in conjunction with another option, poof: hidden synergy unlocked!

Mostly, though, I'm going by what Rihaku said here:

Plus, there's the standard 'Even if the singular the arete spending wasn't efficient, if we get more picks it will have overall been efficient'. Essentially, if we got an extra successful encounter and an extra pick due to selecting Undying Echo, then we'd have gotten 2.5 picks instead of 1.5 picks for the 2 Arete.
I think Rihaku mentioned earlier that most of the picks were upgradable in the future to better ones at some efficiency loss compared to spending all the arete at once.
 
I wonder, how would Dead but Dreaming interact with the decimator's affliction. By which I mean, could we die, go to sleep and wake up to an utterly decimated and lifeless realm? What a phyrric victory for our enemies, to strike down the source of the decimation and have it continue unabated.
 
I wonder, how would Dead but Dreaming interact with the decimator's affliction. By which I mean, could we die, go to sleep and wake up to an utterly decimated and lifeless realm? What a phyrric victory for our enemies, to strike down the source of the decimation and have it continue unabated.
I think our hero would suffer some pretty bad psychological damage from that.
 
We should hopefully be able to afford Completion as well as fishing thereby sidestepping the issue for two years. Besides Gisena can provide Curse mitigation herself on top of what we pick. That should buy us enough time to pursue the options to increase her sorceress level.

Besides fishing probably is cathartic! It's some nice leisure time vigorously pursuing a hobby! It'll also give us some happy memories to burn for power when we inevitably have to dust off our forbidden secret technique.

@LordOfMurder I just noticed this(The previous tag was this in another post), I was actually being generous with my estimation of her death in 25 years. Taking rudimentary(Read: Mitigation measures with non universe scale energy costs, speculating on what she can provide at baseline) into account. Possibly Conclusion too depending on how good our bad the mitigation she can provide is.

I'm also operating under the assumption we aren't reaching 8 arete by the time Rihaku's next update comes out. Seriously, from a math standpoint, we must scrabble at basically every mitigation opportunity and get Gisena Findross if she's to have any hope of a mortal baseline lifespan.


I don't recall Gisena having a passive nullity aura that's active all the time so her powers might not protect her. That's assuming it's a steady drain over time that we don't notice. If it's a once a year effect and we can tell when it happens then we can just give her a heads up to blast us or use her nova.

The fact we can get a 1 month total reprieve, or 6 months of half drain means it's a steady drain you're correct there.

Before anything else, your math assumes that lifespan is static thing that can't be added to. There is no reason to believe that every living thing is born with finite amount of lifeforce they spend through the life, that's just silly.
Is it?

No matter how healthily you live, no matter how much nutrition you got as a baby, without sci-fi hardware or sufficiently powerful magic(Whether we find some or get distracted by other shiny things is up in the air), your telomeres fray just the same. All you can hope to do is slow it down. Spend your life force more efficiently over time.

forums.sufficientvelocity.com

A Simple Transaction I Original

Update is done, writing vote options. We're not quite at 6 Arete though. Depends on a number of factors, Sorceresses of her power usually don't age much and she's still young (only a few years older than Jeanne, who was 19). If she continues to grow in power, it's possible that she can...

Depends on a number of factors, Sorceresses of her power usually don't age much and she's still young (only a few years older than Jeanne, who was 19). If she continues to grow in power, it's possible that she can outscale the drain for a time. She's got CON 50 under Quantified World, which is a fair bit beyond peak human, so her natural lifespan is probably 2-3 hundred years.

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A Simple Transaction I Original

Important PSA: Lesser Remittances do not grant immediate power. The best they can do is strengthen your Primary Remittance some, but if your Primary Remittance has a starting power of 0 due to being purely potential-based, like The Sword, that would not solve your problem. It would give people...

It will reduce everyone's lifespan in the radius by 10% per year. Very unhealthy people could die, yes.

Gisena's in her early 20s. Let's say 22.(Edit: In hindsight my numbering may be off by 1, for her to be 22 after 1 year means shes 21 right now)

Assuming no mitigation and us getting distracted by shinies/finding the cost of getting her sufficient Findross to Coalesce unacceptable, her lifespan looks like this.

Year 1: Age 22/Lifespan 270
Year 2: Age 23/Lifespan 243
Year 3: Age 24/Lifespan 218.7
Year 4: Age 25/Lifespan 196.83
Year 5: Age 26/Lifespan 177.147
Year 6: Age 27/Lifespan 159.4323
Year 7: Age 28/Lifespan 143.48907
Year 8: Age 29/Lifespan 129.140163
Year 9: Age 30/Lifespan 116.2261467
Year 10: Age 31/Lifespan 104.60353203
Year 11: Age 32/Lifespan 94.143178827
Year 12: Age 33/Lifespan 84.7288609443
Year 13: Age 34/Lifespan 76.2559748499
Year 14: Age 35/Lifespan 68.6303773649
Year 15: Age 36/Lifespan 61.7673396284
Year 16: Age 37/Lifespan 55.5906056656
Year 17: Age 38/Lifespan 50.031545099
Year 18: Age 39/Lifespan 45.0283905891
Year 19: Age 40/Lifespan 40.5255515302

Gisena doesn't even have 20 years traveling with us if we don't mitigate Decimators and/or get her Findross.
 
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I hope we can find ways to make specific people immune to the Affliction like with Champion.

It should be possible.
 
Gisena's in her early 20s. Let's say 22.(Edit: In hindsight my numbering may be off by 1, for her to be 22 after 1 year means shes 21 right now)

Assuming no mitigation and us getting distracted by shinies/finding the cost of getting her sufficient Findross to Coalesce unacceptable, her lifespan looks like this.

Year 1: Age 22/Lifespan 270
Year 2: Age 23/Lifespan 243
Year 3: Age 24/Lifespan 218.7
Year 4: Age 25/Lifespan 196.83
Year 5: Age 26/Lifespan 177.147
Year 6: Age 27/Lifespan 159.4323
Year 7: Age 28/Lifespan 143.48907
Year 8: Age 29/Lifespan 129.140163
Year 9: Age 30/Lifespan 116.2261467
Year 10: Age 31/Lifespan 104.60353203
Year 11: Age 32/Lifespan 94.143178827
Year 12: Age 33/Lifespan 84.7288609443
Year 13: Age 34/Lifespan 76.2559748499
Year 14: Age 35/Lifespan 68.6303773649
Year 15: Age 36/Lifespan 61.7673396284
Year 16: Age 37/Lifespan 55.5906056656
Year 17: Age 38/Lifespan 50.031545099
Year 18: Age 39/Lifespan 45.0283905891
Year 19: Age 40/Lifespan 40.5255515302

Gisena doesn't even have 20 years traveling with us if we don't mitigate Decimators and/or get her Findross
Our current mitigation options don't really solve this, though; 7 arete for 10% more time isn't sustainable. I think we have to hope Gisena mitigating the Curse will offer ways to exclude companions from it, and then prioritize that over e.g. reducing the drain to 9%.

With what we've seen so far there's just fundamentally no way to have her as a companion long term through broad mitigation alone in the absence of something like Retinue boosting her.
 
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Our current mitigation options don't really solve this, though; 7 arete for 10% more time isn't sustainable. I think we have to hope Gisena mitigating the Curse will offer ways to exclude companions from it, and then prioritize that over e.g. reducing the drain to 9%.

With what we've seen so far there's just fundamentally no way to have her as a companion long term through broad mitigation alone in the absence of something like Retinue boosting her.

10% more time, the moral high ground, enough psychological recovery to avoid future PTSD flashbacks, a mystery box, and the ability to spend long periods of time in space looks a lot better though. And hey, I'm not sure if I'm jumping around rhetorically or not, but a lot can happen for a progression type cursebearer with Apocrypha in 2 years.

Edit: Let's not let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
 
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10% more time, the moral high ground, enough psychological recovery to avoid future PTSD flashbacks, a mystery box, and the ability to spend long periods of time in space looks a lot better though. And hey, I'm not sure if I'm jumping around rhetorically or not, but a lot can happen for a progression type cursebearer with Apocrypha in 2 years.
The option has good stuff, yes, but it still really doesn't solve the Companion Problem.
 
That's definitely what I'll call the Devourer from now on.

As for Conclusion, Hunger Sated definitely sin't the only way to mitigate it, so getting 2 years where we don't have to worry about it so we can search for other alternatives seems good. Especially because it unlock outer space and therefore the rest of the Human Sphere; something that might be necessary if want to follow the lead of studying the Armaments, either for mitigation or just for cool shit. Has a mystery box element too, and how can you resist that?

Is it weird that I think other mechs having the Decimator's Affliction makes us less morally culpable? If they already made peace with sucking ten percent of the life force of others themselves, who are they to hold us culpable? We may find easier for people to accept our Curses if living with the Cursed Armaments is considered a fact of life, is all I'm saying.
The option has good stuff, yes, but it still really doesn't solve the Companion Problem.
It solves all the Afflictions problems for 2 years; that can be a lot of time for a Progression-type Cursebearer.
 
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[X] Spill
[X] Of Fishermen, A King


This combinations lets you gain things that the QM tends to do:
- Lore/Exposition
- Shinies
- Epic scenes

All for the low low price of Arete usage and losing your secrets

#worth
 
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