Yes it's a joke to claim a character that deliberately chose an option that will cause ridiculous amounts of deaths in the future while salting the very existence he resides in while also taking a benefit that retards normal progress and rewards progress through violence is going to suddenly be following some ridiculously restrictive notion of due process to people who literally just attacked him.
A Simple Transaction I
- Thread starter Rihaku
- Start date
- Original
Yes it's a joke to claim a character that deliberately chose an option that will cause ridiculous amounts of deaths in the future while salting the very existence he resides in while also taking a benefit that retards normal progress and rewards progress through violence is going to suddenly be following some ridiculously restrictive notion of due process to people who literally just attacked him.
Lealope
Not yet invincible
- Pronouns
- She/Her
While I don't give one flying fuck about these guys and their reasons, if it actually does turn out to be a misunderstanding and people find out we broke truce unprovoked to slaughter these guys, our reputation will be in the toilet. If they are pirates, they could very well be part of a community that genuinely respects the conventions of parlay; breaking that means we could end up on their hit list.
It's something to consider before using this.
Hunger was the veteran of a guerilla war before he got two doses of Heartlessness from the Forebear. Honour and dishonour are already out the window.
-
As a supplement to this tactic, if we could actually begin to enter negotiations by demanding they withdraw or turn their guns on the Astral beings as a show of good faith on their part and then stab him, that would be ideal.
Last edited:
- Location
- Pindorama
When you quote an option as a show of support, remember to bold the word people.
Edit: later clarification means I don't support this tactic.
Deception is part of warfare and we don't recognize any legitimate bindings other than our own anyway.
Edit: later clarification means I don't support this tactic.
Last edited:
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
We are farking huge. Given the right angle and the presence of Astral Denizens our bot being mistaken for one is plausible because nobody was fighting at an angle to show up on telescope. Apocrypha raises the probability of outlandish things happening to us because we're a protagonist/narrative chew-toy.
Edit: Extending on things to address Decimator's affliction, us not giving a fuck as opposed to trying to use every means in our power to mitigate it isn't established. One of the voting options literally has us pursuing two mitigation forms at once.
Last edited:
I think it'll be very hard for them to get word out so long as we kill all of them, even if it they have some sort of magical telecoms the fact we're in this weird spacewarping dimension means odds are very high it won't work.
It doesn't matter anyway like I said. The fact that when we landed their first reaction was to rush us rather than talk now that they see we're a human (This only happens once we're clearly winning) just makes the intepretations you try to find where they're actually great guys we shouldn't kill even more strained.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
They panicked because we damaged their ship with the landing. In violent circumstances it's fight/flight/freeze and our landing established violent circumstances. Actually being able to talk when you think it's a life threatening situation is farking difficult I'd imagine. It also explains full plate dudes hesitation.
Hmm, well, sure we don't obey any rules and have no reason to keep promises to them, and I'm not particularly favoring these guys, as can be imagined.
But aside from reputation issues - maybe they'll all die, maybe they won't, but if we do this now, we're more likely to use this tactic in the future, and someday it's going to get out that our word can't be trusted - there is another question we should keep in mind. If we don't obey outside rules, what limits do we have?
With the Tyrant's Doom we follow no laws of gods nor men. IMO this means we should be even more rigorous when it comes to following an internal code, lest we one day discover that the Doom of the Tyrant has replaced what passes for our decision-making.
But aside from reputation issues - maybe they'll all die, maybe they won't, but if we do this now, we're more likely to use this tactic in the future, and someday it's going to get out that our word can't be trusted - there is another question we should keep in mind. If we don't obey outside rules, what limits do we have?
With the Tyrant's Doom we follow no laws of gods nor men. IMO this means we should be even more rigorous when it comes to following an internal code, lest we one day discover that the Doom of the Tyrant has replaced what passes for our decision-making.
So no, I don't support this tactic.
Lealope
Not yet invincible
- Pronouns
- She/Her
In light of that, I don't support this tactic.
So they see a human that in your version of events they didn't know existed coming down their grappling line and in the time to formulate a response they panic and decide to swarm him? These very clearly well organized and equipped people who were willing to engage with a huge giant couldn't mentally deal with a human hitting their deck and all subsequent actions they can't be held accountable for? Anyway, further conversation on this issue from me isn't going to be productive so I'll end my part by saying that if even such a clear cut case study like this is not enough for you to decide killing is justified then we have 0 hope at all of conquering the human sphere.
Hmm, I do see the value of future-proofing ourselves a bit, but we chose the Int/Cha build, not being willing to engage in false pretenses really cripples us quite a bit.
Not directly betraying our word in front of everyone still leaves a lot of leeway. Hell, we'd still have a lot of leeway if we were bound to never lie. Just look at Fae.
Edit: I'm thinking parley is a pretty important tradition across many cultures for a reason. It's not even just about honor, but about knowing you can discuss things with the other guy.
Last edited:
- Location
- Pindorama
If there was an explicit vote against that I'd share your concern, but he wouldn't even have thought to try had we not mentioned it. I agree that we'd likely have to use deception at some point; but our word having value can be useful too. We don't want to get in the habit of breaking it because it'd be convenient.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
In the "They are not pirates scenario, our destructive landing made them panic", assuming they're organized monster hunters, it could be they haven't seen destructive power on our level in human form before. It's like the Joker speech in The Dark Knight.
Tally incoming.
Tally incoming.
I still think we should be willing to break our word, but the idea the stakes aren't high enough here seems reasonable to me, we are the favored party here. So setting the precedent for this level of risk is perhaps not worth it.
There is difference between being scheming, and between calling for a truce and then breaking it moment enemy lowers their weapon.
You need people to trust you at least a bit.
Well, sure, I'm not saying we should never ever consider it. But it should be the exception rather than the rule.
- Location
- Pindorama
Referencing pop culture doesn't strengthen your argument, @Conjured Blade. Especially if it requires they check another source. Please try to adapt what you gleam in the world around you to a generally applicable argument.
"In face of the unexpected, people panic and make irrational descisions" doesn't need a clip of the Dark Knight attached to it.
As for the argument itself, there's no evidence that the attack panicked them; they even tried to attack us in an coordinated manner before we spit the ship. There's clear indication of premeditation in the attack. I'd expect at least some of them to flee if they were so panicked.
"In face of the unexpected, people panic and make irrational descisions" doesn't need a clip of the Dark Knight attached to it.
As for the argument itself, there's no evidence that the attack panicked them; they even tried to attack us in an coordinated manner before we spit the ship. There's clear indication of premeditation in the attack. I'd expect at least some of them to flee if they were so panicked.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
Like... maybe the Dresdenverse Mab threshold?
Edit: Referencing the Threshold at which Lord Hunger should break his word. If it's not on the level of stars falling from the sky it's not worth it.
Edit: Referencing the Threshold at which Lord Hunger should break his word. If it's not on the level of stars falling from the sky it's not worth it.
Last edited:
With all the effort we've spent to justify chasing incentives in predictable ways with No Quarter, I see no reason we should quibble over being manipulative ourselves.
That's all I feel this is. A value for life? If we're going to kill him, he'll be just as dead by hook as by crook. Pick Prudence Dictates if you don't want to kill a man for the color of his sword. But don't go into battle half-cocked because you feel bad that you're not proving something by winning.
That's all I feel this is. A value for life? If we're going to kill him, he'll be just as dead by hook as by crook. Pick Prudence Dictates if you don't want to kill a man for the color of his sword. But don't go into battle half-cocked because you feel bad that you're not proving something by winning.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
Fair enough on the Dark Knight thing. What part of this text though is sufficient to establish coordination of attacks? Second, where would they flee to? They're on a ship with nowhere to go and we're destroying it. Even if people were fleeing, people are susceptible to tunnelvision under adrenaline and it hasn't been established whether or not our Accretion enhancements got rid of that quirk of human biology. Some may have tried with some method X and we didn't notice.
Rihaku
The Internet
Letrizia and Gisena can still see you, and even if they couldn't, it's a matter of what type of characterization you'd like to give Hunger. To some, their word is their bond. To others it means nothing in the face of advantage. An important distinction when one follows no law or authority but one's own code!
Rihaku
The Internet
The update will be today at 8 PM EST. This will be an... interesting one. Have a preview!
The man had attacked them without provocation. Now that the tides had shifted he wanted to parley? Absurd. His audacity was impressive, but a tactic that disingenuous didn't even deserve a response.
He struck, a terrible reaving arc of blade-force meant to split the pirate from shoulder to sternum, but the black-armored man reacted quickly and caught the blow on his shield. The sheer pressure of the attack tore a gouge in the metal, shards spraying upwards in a flying plume as the man visibly staggered under the blow. Hunger was already moving, swapping knife-edge to pommel as he closed to strike the man across the helm.
This time. This time he wouldn't need to be rescued, by his wife or anyone else. This time he would end the threat before it could claim them. Whatever cost necessary would be paid from his own body.
The man had attacked them without provocation. Now that the tides had shifted he wanted to parley? Absurd. His audacity was impressive, but a tactic that disingenuous didn't even deserve a response.
He struck, a terrible reaving arc of blade-force meant to split the pirate from shoulder to sternum, but the black-armored man reacted quickly and caught the blow on his shield. The sheer pressure of the attack tore a gouge in the metal, shards spraying upwards in a flying plume as the man visibly staggered under the blow. Hunger was already moving, swapping knife-edge to pommel as he closed to strike the man across the helm.
This time. This time he wouldn't need to be rescued, by his wife or anyone else. This time he would end the threat before it could claim them. Whatever cost necessary would be paid from his own body.