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A Second Sunrise: Taiwan of 2020 Sent Back to 1911

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An Unfinished Life
  • Sidestory
    • University of Leeds, West Yorkshire, England, c. 1916

    The postman looked at the newest packages destined for the same man, and all he could do was shake his head

    Truth be told, it was amusing at first. A letter here or there from far away. Though seemingly of no import, it was no surprise for a young man to have correspondences.

    What did surprise him, was the sheer volume of it all. Letters, packages, and even more letters were all addressed to the same man.

    One John Ronald Reul Tolkien.

    The young man himself had been taken aback by it all. Of course, he had read about the letters and packages from the Islanders from the future, but he never thought such a thing would happen to him.

    He was a reader, of course. A scholar, to put it in lawman's terms.

    If anything, he expected the mysterious letters to be fellow researchers and academics, hopefully with insight into the future of his field of study.

    There were letters like that, of course. The grammar was surprisingly proficient for some people from the future, but he understood that any academic would have an advanced understanding of the English language.

    Even moreso, once he had learned that many Islanders were rather westernized.

    That said, these were the minority of letters and packages that filled his desk. For the majority were, without a doubt, self-described "fan-mail."

    Though, if he was being honest, these people seemed less like fanatics and more akin to supporters. Yes, that sounded more precise.

    Countless letters filled his desk from his supporters abroad. Some were enthusiastic, while others were respectful.

    Yet all of them shared a common awe towards him. Or rather, the man he would become and the books he would write.

    Was that the right tense? If he was being honest with himself, even he didn't know.

    Years of study did not prepare one for a literal Act of God.

    Yet here he was, reading his own story that he had not yet written. It would be unbelievable to most, and it had been at first glance.

    Yet these novels shared his diction and prose. Absurd though it may be, he would chalk it up to an Act of God.

    Exactly why God would act upon him, of all people? That, he did not know.

    What he did know, was that it was part of God's Plan. That, and he was not one to question the Lord Himself.

    Understanding God, however, is different from questioning Him.

    However, it did pique his curiosity, and he had discussed it with the local priest. Though like him, the priest did not have an answer.

    Instead, the young academic returned his focus to his books he was reading. Could he even call them his books? Truth be told, he did not know for sure.

    They were engaging, to say the least. He even had a slight chuckle when he read of the Ents marching. When he had read Macbeth in his youth, he was rather disappointed to learn thay the forests did not literally march.

    It seemed that he would share that sentiment for the rest of his life.

    But it was The Silmarillion that truly fascinated him the most. Here was his entire life's work in one book, intricacies and all.

    It was a bit much, if he was being honest. Not that his other self was excessive, but rather that there was so much to take in.

    Histories, characters, even an entire language. All of these were so foreign, yet familiar at the same time.

    He could not put it into words, but it seemed right. As if this was something that he would write.

    Perhaps that was why it was so easy for him to comprehend it all. These were his writings, after all.

    Yet so much of it was unfinished.

    Was that the correct term? He was sure his other self had planned it all, but this left him with an interesting question.

    Was it appropriate for him to continue? Here was a world that, for all intents and purposes, was his own.

    Yet at the same time, it was not. He had not penned these words, nor had he spent years developing it.

    Yet here he was, given complete creative control over it all.

    As he had known before, it was much to take in.

    He had talked with anyone he could about it, from his friends, to his colleagues, to his newlywed wife Edith.

    Every one of them had given him an answer, yet they had one thing in common:

    This world he had inherited was his own. He was John Ronald Reul Tolkien, was he not?

    As he set his copy of The Silmarillion down on the desk, he sat back in his chair.

    This was an opportunity to finish what his other self had started. It was a chance to expand upon this great and beautiful world he had created in another time.

    Perhaps this was God's plan.

    Then all the more reason I do not squander it.
     
  • Sidestory
    • This one was fun to write.

    I get to use my Catholic upbringing for something that isn't guilt, and I get to write in a more formal, academic tone that I haven't used much since I wrote my theses on the Greater East-Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere.

    Anyways, thanks to @Vadrigos for the inspiration.
     
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    Did anyone bring back a copy of the movies?

    When the news gets out that Tolkien is going to finish The Silmarillion the squealing of the fans will be heard around the world! lol
     
    Talk about movie and game, I hope they share 'Valiant Hearts: The Great War', 'This war of mine' game or similar movie to help show the horror of ww1 and ww2 war better, so to make people even less want to cause unnecessary war here
     
    I'll add "All Quiet on the Western Front" and "Schindler's List" to the pile.

    Although I don't have much hope , more likely the leaders in charge will see the Lost Histories as a way for them to do better this time and come out on top. (the people here that haven't personally experienced tragedy don't have that fundamental emotional knowledge to empathize with effectively themselves from another universe)

    But there is hope, as there is a lot of videos and photos documents on the first industrial war and maybe those will sway enough people for their nations to hesitate to pulling the trigger.
     
    PossiblyEnos said:
    How many are there? This is Taiwan got sent back, not America or Europe.
    Click to expand...
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    Don't show him the movies. By all accounts Tolkein's family doesn't much care for what Jackson did, even if they admit they have come to be very definitive works in their own right. Let the man draw from the original source and not the derivations. (I love the films too, but still.)

    No, I would send him a phonograph of this if possible:
    View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4ybSi5EcZ3M
     
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    Book Review: “A Summer’s Night” by Upton Sinclair
  • Informational
    • While he could simply rest on his laurels and reap the royalties of his already-written works, it seems that Upton Sinclair is anything but complacent.

    And in light of the atrocities committed by the Ku Klux Klan in Los Angeles' Chinatown, he has once again lifted up his pen in the name of activism.

    A Summer's Night takes place in Los Angeles, and follows the story of the Hua family. Immigrants who arrived during the Gold Rush, they were now on their third generation in America.

    True to his roots, Sinclair does not shy away from the hardships they suffered, from prejudice to the Chinese Exclusion Act forcing their family apart.

    But it is the present story that is the most striking, in its mundane nature. If anything, you would not know that the Huas were even Chinese if it weren't for their names and some references to Chinese-American culture.

    But it is this mundanity that trily sets the stage, as this family trying to live an honest life is caught in the path of a vengeful Klan. After all, this story does take place in 1915, in the midst of the "Accidental Trade War," as some call it.

    This was the time when Chinese goods flooded American ports, welcomed and scorned in equal measure. And it was a time that the Klan capitalized on the effect, which Sinclair shows, warts and all.

    It begins with vile rhetoric from people they thought were their friends, and it crescendos from there. Rhetoric becomes intimidation, and intimidation soon becomes violence.

    This, in true Sinclair fashion, is shown in all of its violence, ugliness, and brutality. When the mob of Klansmen from Anaheim and Inglewood descends on Chinatown, he refuses to hold back on the detail.

    Civilians are gunned down in the streets. Men are lynched, and women are raped. The elderly are left bloodied and bruised by the mob, while children suffocate in the houses the Klan torched.

    While there has been a moral outcry, particularly from the more conservative parts of American society, Sinclair has refused to back down or remove the offending sections.

    "If people do not want to hear about lynchings, rape, and arson, then maybe the Klan should stop lynching, raping, and committing arson!" he said in a recent article in the San Francisco Chronicle.

    While he does portray the Chinese-American community as victims of this abuse, Sinclair does not portray them without agency. Not when members of the Hua family and their neighbors actively fought off members of the Klan, tooth and nail.

    These events, of course, are not entirely historical, but Sinclair has gone on record saying that he interviewed several a survivor in Los Angeles last year.

    The story ends on a bittersweet note. So many main characters of the Hua family are dead. Many more survive, but they are left traumatized.

    Still, there is hope in its many forms. From rebuilding, to newborn children, to even some of their white and Mexican neighbors coming by to help them.

    The story ends on a determined note, with the protagonist saying, "This is our home, damn it. Burn us, abuse us, or even kill us, and we will come back stronger."

    To put it mildly, Sinclair does not throw punches. While he clearly has an agenda to sell, he does so in a very down-to-earth manner that appeals to the rural farmer as much as the urban academic.

    Instead of outright talking about high concepts with flowery language, he gets in the muck and shows that people like the Hua family are just as American, if not moreso, than those in the Klan.

    If anything, the sheer violence and brutality leaves us with another, much simpler, message:

    "Do not look away."

    Our Rating:
    5 Out of 5 Stars
     
  • Informational
    • Jimmy040 said:
    One of the funniest quotes(or maybe misquote) from Sinclair was when he was being interviewed he claimed he wrote The Jungle aiming at the nation's(US) heart, but missed and hit it's stomach instead.
    Click to expand...
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    It would really mess with the tone, but it would be funny if people completely missed the point of this book as well.

    Again.

     
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    Chapter 49: Organizations of the Free Nations
  • Threadmarks
    • Tauride Palace, Saint Petersburg Governorate, Russian Empire, 1 January 1917

    The fact that they were even here in the first place was a miracle.

    In less than a decade, Russia had gone from an autocracy, to a military dictatorship, to a constitutional monarchy. Though with Diterikhs gone, Wrangel and Kornilov were finally able to hold the long-promised elections.

    That said, they hadn't expected the Social Revolutionaries and the Trudoviks to earn so many seats, even if the Cadets had managed to hold a plurality.

    Prime Minister Milyukov sighed as he looked over at the crowd in front of him. At this point, he was just happy that the Grand Coalition weren't at each other's throats.

    The Octobrists, Cadets, Trudoviks, and Social Revolutionaries could at least agree on a few things, and he sincerely hoped that these could hold them together.

    First, was that dictatorship needed to be prevented at all costs. With how chaotic the last few years were, they all knew full well what absolute power could do to ruin Russia. Safeguards would need be put in place to prevent that.

    Second was the need for minority protections. Despite the Octobrists' insistence against autonomy, Milyukov had found them much more agreeable when it came to protecting religious and ethnic rights.

    That said, the third issue of land reform had nearly torn the coalition apart. The Social Revolutionaries had been stalwart in their position that drastic land reform was necessary to maintain stability among the masses, while the Octobrists were insistent on continuing Stolypin's more moderate reforms.

    The next week was utter Hell for Milyukov, as he balanced the voices in his office. Octobrists shouted that a steady hand was needed, while the Social Revolutionaries outright said that more drastic land reform was the only way to settle the growing libertarian insurgency.

    True to their word, Milyukov knew that the latter had a point. After all, Makhno and his band of bandits were actually popular wherever they went; their Robin Hood-esque land redistribution had taken several large estates and redistributed them to the peasantry.

    In fact, the only reason they weren't even more successful was the fact that they agreed to a ceasefire with the promise of drastic land reform.

    Land reform that, if the Octobrists had their way, would be watered-down at best. It was a fact that even the Octobrists knew, even if they didn't want to admit it.

    Which meant spending the next week dragging them, kicking and screaming, into agreeing to it. It wasn't easy, of course; in fact, he was fairly certain that the Social Revolutionaries outright threatened the Octobrists with the promise that Makhno and his bandits would return if this didn't pass.

    But eventually, they had managed to come to an agreement, in exchange for compensation.

    Last was the issue of the monarchy itself. The Octobrists were rather insistent on keeping the institution, while the Cadets had been largely ambivalent.

    In contrast, the Social Revolutionaries wore their anti-monarchist sentiments on their sleeves, and the Tsar himself had objected to any additional limits on his power.

    It was this tension that allowed the Octobrists to shine, with them acting as the arbitrators between the two parties. Eventually, they agreed that the Tsar would stay, albeit with greatly-reduced powers.

    Of course, that had already been the de-facto arrangement, but it was better to have it in writing.

    Such was the life of politics in the newly-reformed Russian Empire. Though at this point, he was more than content to have an actually-functional government that wasn't wasting its resources on persecuting minorities.

    But right now?

    He had bigger fish to fry right now. Particularly what was left of the Okhrana, along with what would replace it.

    That said, the fact that reforms were even on the table was more than he could have hoped for only a few years ago.

    Should this go well, he could see Russia having a bright future ahead of themselves. And with the Chinese letter of support, he knew that they wouldn't have to go this alone.

    Washington, District of Columbia, United States, 3 March 1917

    To put it mildly, the Klan was at its lowest unpopularity it had ever been. The fact that Roosevelt had won in a landslide, while his would-be assassins rotted in jail was proof of that.

    It had gotten to the point that they weren't popular, even in the south.

    There had always been Democrats who opposed the Klan down there. In fact, one of them was their Vice Presidential candidate last year.

    But the Klan had enjoyed some support before the attempted assassination. Even those that were staunch segregationists saw trying to murder the President as a bridge too far.

    And so it was that Roosevelt started to go after them once again, under the 1871 Enforcement Act.

    But today wasn't about that. Not when the Eighteenth Amendment had been ratified, which meant women's suffrage was the law of the land, and poll taxes and literacy tests were outlawed.

    It wasn't an easy task, of course. Women's suffrage was easy enough, what with Woodrow Wilson putting his own support behind that.

    But it was the banning of literacy tests and poll taxes that were more-contentious. Ostensibly written in to protect the voting rights of the uneducated and the poor, Roosevelt knew full well that these would be used against Jim Crow laws.

    A "Poison Pill," as the Islanders would call it. One that many conservatives had agreed to, in an effort to kill the Amendment in ratification.

    Yet he wouldn't be here if it hadn't barely been ratified.

    Much to their horror and his amusement.

    "It is remarkable how far we have come," said President Roosevelt, "using only a fraction of our potential."

    "Think of how far our Founding Fathers brought us into the future, despite only a fraction of men having the vote."

    "Now think of all the great accomplishments our nation has achieved only using half of our potential. Railways, telegraphs, radios, industry, and so much more."

    And now that this amendment has been passed, imagine what our nation can achieve when American men and American women participate hand in hand in the Great American Emperiment!"

    "With this Amendment, we come one step closer to forming that more perfect union. One where all Americans, whether man or women, rich or poor, educated or uneducated, can live up to our full potentials.

    Mhow, Central India Agency, British India, 19 April 1917

    While Jin Hua had several converts from the upper castes, he did not expect to see Hindus approaching him for an alliance, rather than conversion.

    "Socialists," one of his students had told him. "While they do not share our religious beliefs, they do share our sense of equality. Or at least they say they do, anyways."

    "Do you believe they do?" Jin asked his student. "After all, you yourself converted because you were born into the lowest caste."

    "It is possible," said they young Indian man, "However, the caste system is so intertwined with Hinduism that it may not be truly possible to separate the two."

    "It is possible," the elder monk agreed, "However, I have often found that how one acts can be more impactful than the beliefs themselves."

    "How so?"

    "There is a story a Muslim friend of mine once told me, of two women. One was a pious woman who followed the Qur'an to the letter, and the other was a prostitute."

    The pious woman saw a beggar and ignored him, shooed a dog when it passed her, and shouted at the children playing in the street."

    "The prostitute gave one of her few coins to the beggar, poured some of her water to the dog, and cheerfully greeted the playing children."

    "And when they both died, God- well, the Muslim God, anyways, looked more favorably on the prostitute, despite both women being of the same faith."

    "I see…" said the younger man, who became lost in thought. "While that works for morality, I do not think that story is applicable to this scenario."

    "Perhaps it isn't," Jin chuckled. Truth be told, he was paraphrasing from what his old friend had told him a decade ago. "But I do believe that in this case, one's actions are more-important. Out of practicality, if nothing else."

    "Perhaps," his student relented, though the young man stayed lost in thought. "Besides, he speaks no differently than the Sikhs, Muslims, and Christians he allies himself with."

    "The Ghadar Party, yes?" Jin's student nodded, and motioned for the teacher to continue. "Socialism does have that appeal, I'll give them that. In theory, if not in practice."

    "Do you believe them?"

    "I do not know," Jin admitted. "In my time, there have been many people who have claimed to be for equality and acted on their own prejudices. However, there have been just as many people who genuinely believe in it… I suppose it depends on the person."

    "Is this one of those answers that boils down to, 'You will have to think about it yourself, Bhimrao, and make up your own mind'" Jin nodded. "I thought so."

    "I would hear them out, at least," Jin offered. "Politics isn't my forte, but I would imagine that a secular movement opposed to the caste system would have room for somebody like you."

    "Perhaps."

    Saigon Free School, Saigon, French Indochina, 6 June 1917

    Hm… Vietnam doesn't look that different from when I visited as a child…

    Okay, besides the school, its modern buildings, and the Foreign Legion sergeant who apparently knew my husband when they were children.

    "No shit?" the sergeant told Aki. "Small world, huh?"

    "I suppose so," she agreed. It wasn't every day that she met another American Islander. Let alone somebody who also happened to be from her husband's hometown. "So, you knew Michael?"

    "We went to some of the same summer camps as kids. How is he, anyways?"

    "He hates paperwork."

    "That sounds like him," Le said, and shook his head. "I remember he kept complaining about how his mother had to keep pushing him to actually fill out his Eagle Project."

    "That does sound like her," Aki agreed, and then turned to the pile of books he'd given her. "I take it these aren't in the database yet?"

    "Far as I know, they aren't, but you can check for yourself."

    "Oh, that's far above my pay grade. I'm just here as the delivery girl."

    "They don't have you doing translating work with Project Capsule?"

    "Oh, I do. But I'm here on MIB business. My boss wanted to stay updated on what's happening down here, and we could use somebody with a soldier's perspective. The job is yours, if you want it."

    "How much work are we talking?"

    "One report a month. Basically on the goings on around here, from your perspective. It's easy work."

    "I'm pretty busy here," Le told her, and motioned to the security teams. "Some assholes keep trying to firebomb the place."

    "Why would they try to burn down a school?"

    "It's not the school, Higa. It's what it represents. This is a place that's actively-supported by independence activists."

    "I thought Paris supports the schools?"

    "They do," Le sighed, "But there are people who aren't happy about the colonial reforms both of us support. It hurts their profits."

    "Which is why they're trying to burn the place down. If tensions continue to rise between Phan and Paris, then the latter would be encouraged to return to the Status Quo."

    "Yeah. Or they get voted out next time around."

    "I see… This is a problem, isn't it?"

    "Yup. Which is kind of why I'm willing to work with the MIB. Sure, we have people being trained and educated on Hainan, but those are soldiers and political leaders."

    "What you need are agents and resources to deal with them?"

    Le nodded and sighed. "Unfortunately, we would have to go this alone, too. While Paris likes us, and the Governor General is one of their guys, the men from the previous administration can't be trusted."

    "I see… Well, I'll send it up the chain, Le. No promises after that, though."

    "Hey, I'll take that over nothing, Higa. Beats chasing down and capturing these guys myself."

    "I suppose it would," Aki quietly laughed, only to see that Le didn't think so. "…You're actually doing that, aren't you?"

    "Yup. Even managed to catch one of them."

    Wonderful.

    Aki, what did you get yourself dragged into?
     
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    • The passage of the 18th Amendment (Women's Suffrage and Voting Rights) would make it the second time women's rights were accidentally promoted in the United States.

    There's a story where a town once nominated women for mayor as a joke.

    She won.

    Surely, adding in protections against poll taxes and literacy tests would torpedo the Women's Suffrage Amendment-

    It passes.
     
    Suffrage Shenanigans
  • Sidestory
    • Tsu Residence, Manila, Commonwealth of the Philippines

    Ever since she had managed to repair her guitar, Laura Madden had been playing it every waking minute.

    Or at least every waking minute that she wasn't running an import business with her husband's family, anyways.

    They didn't mind, of course. If anything, some of the girls wanted her to teach them.

    "So," her husband shouted over her practice, "Apparently you can vote now."

    "I can what?" Laura shouted over the sound of her guitar, "What's up?"

    "Voting rights. You can vote again."

    "Oh." Laura went back to playing her guitar. Alexandros' "Arpeggio" wasn't about to translate itself, after all. "That's nice, I guess."

    "Really? Thought you'd be happier."

    "I guess? They're a year late, Manny."

    "Or a few more years early, for the next round."

    "People don't get a cookie for basic decency," she told her husband, "I get that it's important, but there's still a long way to go."

    "Yeah. You heard how it passed though, right?"

    "No." That, of all things, got her to stop playing. "Why, did something happen?"

    "Okay, so you know how there are a lot of people who are really racist and sexist, right?"

    "Yup." How could she not, when those types kept giving her weird looks when she was renting out tools. "What about them?"

    "Yeah, so it turns out that a bunch of the Southern Democrats decided to try to kill it with- Wait, you know what a Poison Pill is, right?"

    "That's the thing where they try to sneak in a dealbreaker, right?"

    "Yup. In this case, it was banning poll taxes and literacy tests."

    "Oh. I think I see where this is going."

    Sure, a lot of people were on board with giving women the vote, but voting rights? No way.

    "Yeah. It was the only way it was getting through the Senate, and I guess they thought that most states would kill it in ratification?"

    "…You have to be fucking kidding me, Manny-"

    "I'm not."

    "So the guys who were sexist and racist voted for women's rights and minority rights because they thought that people wanted to screw over black people more than they liked women?"

    "Yup."

    "And then it got ratified by enough states?"

    "Yeah. Barely, but it went through."

    "So now women and black people can vote."

    "Yup." Manny tried his best not to burst out laughing, but Laura could see the biggest shit-eating grin on his face. "You know what's the funnier thing, right?"

    "What's up?"

    "America is on the path to being decades ahead when it comes to Civil Rights… And it's all thanks to them."
     
  • Sidestory
    • An Indian Industrialist’s Gambit
  • Sidestory
    • Calcutta, Bengal Presidency, British India

    To put it mildly, Vikram Singh was a happy man.

    While he was a proponent of the Swadeshi movement, he, like many other merchants, had to admit that the influx of Chinese goods had its benefits.

    While the Swadeshi movement referred to all foreign goods, and the Chinese were as foreign as the British, the fact remained that the Chinese-imported cloth was cheaper than what the British sold.

    Basic capitalism had meant that Indians could outright boycott British cloth and enjoy cheaper prices.

    That said, Lal-Bal-Pal had made it clear that they didn't want to "Trade the British for the Chinese," and a boycott was proposed for Chinese cloth.

    This, to put it mildly, had nearly split the INC down the middle.

    There were, of course, the Isolationists, those who saw Independence as an Indian effort, that must be fought for by Indians. They weren't exactly anti-Chinese, not by any means, but they had their own reservations.

    In contrasts were the Pan-Asianists, who saw the Chinese as a worthwhile partner to achieve independence. For them, the massed-imports were a means to that end, so long as it hurt the British bottom line.

    It was all for nothing, of course. With the San Francisco Agreement signed, the Chinese agreed to end Free Trade in exchange for the rest of the concessions.

    Truth be told, a part of Vikram did wish that they'd rejected it and outright crashed the British textile industry.

    Which left them where they were today, back at Square One. With the British imposing such high tariffs on Chinese cloth, the average Indian now had to choose between cheaper British goods and more-expensive Indian goods.

    Which for him, meant lower profits all around. The Chinese were many things to many independence-minded Indians. But for Vikram, they had made him quite wealthy in that time.

    And the British took that golden goose and slaughtered it.

    Ever the enterprising man, Vik wasn't about to sit around and take it.

    Instead, he stood before his newest factory, the first of its kind in India. With the help of modern machinery and methods (adapted for India's minimal infrastructure, of course), he had spent every pound he could spare on this textile mill.

    All in compliance with Swadeshi and the new British tariffs, of course.

    After all, this cloth will be made with Indian cotton, with Indians running the machinery, and Indians operating the factory.

    Besides, it wasn't as if the British placed tariffs on machinery.

    Now that he thought about it, this had been a major oversight. Britain's tariffs on Chinese goods were primarily in the form of goods and raw materials, not machinery.

    Those were hit with a more-modest and reasonable tariff. One that he happily paid.

    While he wouldn't complain at the opportunity, Vikram was fairly certain that it was ultimately due to the British not thinking anybody would do this.

    On the other hand, he would be making a fortune from the factory by virtue of not having to ship goods back and forth between Britain and India.

    With local resources, labor, and supply chains, he would still make more money than he'd lose through British taxes and his insistence on paying decent wages.

    The latter wasn't strictly necessary for the Swadeshi movement, but it helped him sleep easier at night.

    That, and all the donations to the Ghadar Party.
     
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  • Sidestory
    • "If we had a nickel for every time Asians used future manufacturing technology to beat us at our own game, we would have two nickels. Which isn't much, but it's weird it happened twice."

    -Britain, probably
     
    I wonder what happened to Nguyễn Thái Học
    I had mentioned him because he was born in 1902 and he was a Vietnamese independence activist
     
    The Comments Section: Why Trads Don’t Like a Trad America
  • Sidestory
    • Comments on "Why I, An Uptimer Traditionalist Catholic, Left America"

    DeusVult • 6h ago

    Yeah, this had been one giant letdown. I thought going back to more based, pre-Vatican II times would be good for American Trads like us, but it turns out these Americans just keep screaming "PAPISTS REEEEEEEEEEEE!"

    cGh ONE • 6h ago

    Dude, what did you think would happen? It's the early 1910s, back when anti-Catholic sentiment was still a thing.

    Hell, fast forward fifty years, and there are still people crazy enough to try to suicide bomb JFK because they thought he'd sell America out to the Pope.

    DeusVult • 5h ago

    Yeah, but even the Catholics over there want nothing else to do with us.

    FrChrisSJ • 5h ago

    That might be an issue of reputation. I have seen complaints about Uptimer Catholics showing up and basically "weirding out" the locals with their behavior.

    DeusVult • 4h ago

    Leave it to the SJesuitW to say call their fellow Catholics weirdos.

    cGhONE • 4h ago

    Look, man, I don't know who you are, but I'm pretty sure most Catholics don't LARP as a crusader.

    FrChrisSJ • 4h ago

    Can confirm.

    It kinda weirds me out, if I am being completely honest.

    AkiH85 • 3h ago

    It is also important to point out that if you're a Catholic in America, people may think of you as non-white.

    DeusVult • 3h ago

    I'm Italian-American.

    cGhONE • 3h ago

    Yeah… That's not really white at this time.

    MrNegative • 2h ago

    "No Blacks, No Dogs, No Irish," as the signs used to say.

    FrChrisSJ • 2h ago

    And, as previously mentioned, Catholics aren't seen as part of the "in-group."

    Much as I hate to admit it, there are many Americans who think that we're more loyal to the Pope than we are to the US.

    Downtime Dan • 2h ago

    Not all of us, of course. Many of us Downtimers prefer to be left alone.

    FrChrisSJ • 1h ago

    I was referring to people like the Klan, but yes. Dan brings up a good point.

    While many Americans did have their prejudices, others were largely ambivalent.

    Of course, the issue I see right now is that anti-Catholic sentiment is much higher than in the future.

    Downtime Dan • 1h ago

    It is unfortunate, to say the least.

    Catholics have been part of my country since the Calverts arrived in Maryland.

    For what it is worth, I personally see you all as no less American.

    JohnBrownWasRight • 1h ago

    Seconded.

    As far as I am concerned, any Catholic is a child of God.

    Downtime Dan • 50m ago

    Indeed. I'd rather have them around than the Klan.

    At least they don't go around trying to murder the president.

    JohnBrownWasRight • 45m ago

    We ought to make a trade with England. Send all the klansmen back to London and exchange them for a bunch of Irishmen.

    Mr Negative • 39m ago

    lol

    cGh ONE • 32m ago

    Out of curiosity, how are you guys using the internet? I thought it was limited to China rn?

    JohnBrownWasRight • 31m ago

    Oh, I am one of the international students from the United States.

    Downtime Dan • 30m ago

    I'm here for work.

    MrNegative • 25m ago

    Hey, welcome to China, you two.

    Culture shock isn't too bad, is it?

    Downtime Dan • 24m ago

    I don't agree with everything people do here, but as far as I am concerned, that's none of my business.

    It takes some time to adjust, but it's not too hard.

    JohnBrownWasRight • 20m ago

    I like it here.

    It isn't as… How do I put it… "Foreign," as I thought it would be.

    MrNegative • 18m ago

    Yeah, I get that. I was the same when I moved here.

    Taiwan is pretty Americanized. Well, more than the Mainland, anyways.

    JohnBrownWasRight • 15m ago

    You are a Downtimer as well?

    MrNegative • 12m ago

    Nah. My family moved here from California when I was a teen.

    DowntimeDan • 9m ago

    Interesting.

    What is America like in the future?

    MrNegative • 5m ago

    America is much more accepting of Poles, Irish, Russians, Italians, and other non-Protestant Christians in general.

    Basically, the "In-Crowd" is much larger.

    Inequality is still an issue, as is the separation of Church and State.

    Oh, and the Catholic Church had several reforms in the second half of the 20th Century.

    DeusVult • 4m ago

    Fucking bullshit.

    FrChrisSJ • 3m ago

    To put it another way, it's not too different, but it's different enough, if that makes sense.

    MrNegative • 2m ago

    For example, we also think that people who LARP as crusaders are weirdos.
     
  • Sidestory
    • While there are some cultural differences, both Uptimers and Downtimers have a lot in common.

    Sometimes, it's shared values, ideals, or dreams.

    At other times, it's thinking that people who LARP as crusaders are weirdos.
     
    ChrisProvidence said:
    Unlikely. Most are probably going around Asia.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    I mean, New Age Buddhism caught on quite quickly in uptime America, so missionaries, particularly uptime people who have lived in the US might try to replicate this in the downtime US.

    Let's not forget that there are also already relatively large Buddhist groups on the west coast composed of Asian immigrants. So proselytising might be focused around those communities.

    Of course, the success of such endeavours outside of these immigrants isn't guaranteed.
     
    Lord Cheddar said:
    I mean, New Age Buddhism caught on quite quickly in uptime America, so missionaries, particularly uptime people who have lived in the US might try to replicate this in the downtime US.

    Let's not forget that there are also already relatively large Buddhist groups on the west coast composed of Asian immigrants. So proselytising might be focused around those communities.

    Of course, the success of such endeavours outside of these immigrants isn't guaranteed.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    Fair point. I guess it could happen on some scale.

    Probably not to a large degree outside of already-Buddhist or Buddhist-adjacent communities.

    But there will be some presence, even if it's on the fringes.
     
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