We know that Kirei is the master of Lancer, and there's been some thread speculation that he got Enkidu, but iirc his actual servant hasn't even been seen, much less confirmed in story as of yet.
A Poisoned Chalice (Fate/Zero, Fate/Grand Order)
- Thread starter Rob Rimsill
- Start date
That would at least explain where I got the idea from, thank you.
- Location
- Probably at sea
Kirei first appears in the church, in Chapter 15. The identity of his Servant has not been confirmed, but process of elimination would suggest it's a Lancer of some description. Beyond that, your best clue is probably in Chapter 1.
Last edited:
Silvan Eldar
Delinquent Heir to Makai
- Location
- Here and There
Why, I can't believe you haven't realized yet my good Silver Gambit. The 4th War's Lancer is clearly Summer Ibaraki. But, much like the great Oni-Cure, no one can recognize Summer Ibaraki as Summer Ibaraki, after all, she's a
- Location
- Plato's Cave
We don't really have one of those - the Burial Agency is functionally where the monsters (metaphorically and literal) work. The standards for it are....high. Ciel, with her immortality and top 0.1% magic circuits barely qualifies as the reserve member. Kirei, despite being a damn good Executor and a combat monster able to fight weaker Servants in some conditions, is called no match for the seventh (weakest) member.
I still think it's going to be a young Li Shuwen, personally. He had a pretty similar "I don't really have a goal or idea of what I want to do with myself" thing going on when he was young, which led to him wandering around fighting everything and everyone.
One of the master Servant pairs is two aimless weapons. Enkidu was a weapon made to kill Gilgamesh and Kirei is a weapon for both the Holy Church and Tokiomi.
The problem is that if Kirei has Enkidu then he has already won. None of the other Servants will be able to injure much less kill Enkidu he is incredibly tough and fought evenly with Gilgamesh.
The problem is that if Kirei has Enkidu then he has already won. None of the other Servants will be able to injure much less kill Enkidu he is incredibly tough and fought evenly with Gilgamesh.
- Location
- Probably at sea
Dammit, you've gone and caught on to my cunning plan! As you suspected, the planned endgame for this fic is 'and then Enkidu stomped everyone lol'. /s
I'm not confirming or denying anything, of course, but I will say that Tokiomi thought he had it in the bag when he summoned Gilgamesh in canon, too. He was wrong, because the Holy Grail War isn't made up of Servants slugging each other until one falls over - there's all kinds of things you might do to circumvent even someone as powerful as Enkidu.
Don't worry. I've been building up Lancer for a while, and I intend to deliver, without nerfing or otherwise copping out.
Last edited:
SolipsistSerpent
Endlessly Devouring
Though it's worth noting he fought evenly with living Gilgamesh who didn't have access to all the future Noble Phantasms through Gate of Babylon that current Archer Gilgamesh has, because while being a Servant removes capabilities from a hero, it can also add them. (See Berserker Hercules, who lost his brains, but gained the ability to come back from the dead 12 times, which isn't something living Hercules could do).
Actually Heracles has God Hand in whatever form he has been summoned in.
Its true Enkidu might not have access to all his abilities but he still is among the top 10 most powerful Servants that can be summoned. All the Servants that have been summoned here are B level servants who with the possible exception of Atalanta will be unable to injure him.
SolipsistSerpent
Endlessly Devouring
But I've never seen any evidence that he had the ability in life, which is what is germane to my argument.
Well i looked it up on the wiki and it says that Archer Heracles has it. It makes sense regardless of what class he has been summoned in Heracles did perform the 12 labors so there is no reason he should lose it regardless of class.
SolipsistSerpent
Endlessly Devouring
Yes...? That's still unrelated to what I was saying.
Look we are derailing the thread.
Chapter 21 - Unsuspecting
- Location
- Probably at sea
Chapter 21 - Unsuspecting
After the flurry of departing Servants, Kotomine church could have seemed still and quiet. But the Masters of the Fourth Holy Grail War knew their business, and as soon as the door swung shut behind Rider, they had gathered in the middle of the church to co-ordinate.
Before the altar, dust dancing in dazzling patterns in the air as the late afternoon sun shone through the old stained glass window, Tohsaka, El-Melloi and Matou had formed a loose triangle. El-Melloi and Matou occupied the front pew, immediately either side of the central passage. Tohsaka stood before the altar itself, and if he felt any discomfort at having to stand, none of it showed on his face.
From the distant look in their eyes, each Master was in constant communication with their Servant, seeing the world through their eyes and passing messages back and forth, as fast as they could think them. Every so often, they would mutter in low voices to one another, letting the other Masters – and, through them, their Servants on the ground – know the situation as it unfolded.
El-Melloi seemed to have sunk the most deeply, into a kind of trance. He may not have been seeing the church at all, only rousing faintly when tapped on the shoulder by Matou before settling back down into his pew. Strange, for such an accomplished magus to have such a hard time following the flow of the pursuit. Was his focus split somehow?
Tohsaka, by contrast, seemed the most 'present' of the three Masters whose Servants had followed in pursuit. His eyes flicked from El-Melloi to Matou and back again, following their snatches of conversation.
"Into the business district. Trap her before she reaches the plaza," Matou said, tapping El-Melloi's knee.
"Which way?"
"Through the arcade. Left."
"Mm."
They lapsed into silence.
"No sign of Father Kotomine, by the way," Matou added. "Berserker must have dumped him. Hopefully alive. I liked the old geezer."
Tohsaka held up his hand. Kotomine Kirei emerged from the shadows behind the altar like a wraith, and Tohsaka whispered something into his ear.
Kirei nodded, and disappeared into the depths of the church. Tohsaka stepped forward, clapping his hands for attention. After a moment, the other two men seemed to partly emerge from their reverie, although El-Melloi still seemed slightly vacant.
"Yeah, what?" Matou snapped. "We're busy here, if you hadn't noticed. Some of us actually want to stop Berserker, you know. I'd ask you to get Rider to help out, but somehow I'm not surprised you don't care."
"Rider stands ready," Tohsaka said, not reacting to the jibe. "We assess Berserker will try to escape over the river. We shall cut her off there. Archer and Saber will act as the hammer to Rider's anvil."
"Oh, great," said Matou, his face twisting. "So we get to do all the work and you get to claim all the credit."
Tohsaka smiled, thinly. "On the contrary. I am generously giving you this chance for Archer to slay Berserker before Rider gets involved. If she cannot manage it… well, that is hardly my fault."
El-Melloi made an annoyed sound. "Stop arguing or go away. I'm trying to concentrate."
"Yes, yes," Tohsaka waved him off. "I just wanted to inform you both. If you could herd Berserker towards the river, that would be useful. With luck, we can finish it there."
"Not likely," said Matou. His hand spasmed as he spoke, but he seemed not to notice. "She's slippery, I'll give her that. With only two Servants… we're doing our best, but she's managing to escape every time." He glared at Tohsaka. "A little help would be useful. Where did you send the priest? If Lancer wanted to make an entrance into the War, now would be a good time."
Tohsaka smiled thinly, though he looked uncomfortable. "Yes, well, we're trying. Be grateful Archer is easy to handle. For myself, I am more worried about Caster, and why she hasn't appeared in pursuit yet. She seems the type to have a plan, but I hope she is not going to get in our way. If she had at least left her Master, we could have combined our efforts…"
El-Melloi sneered, something like life returning to his eyes. "Velvet? A jumped-up novice. We're better off without him. I wonder where the Magus Killer could have got to. If he's done something to Sola-Ui while the rest of us are dealing with Berserker, I'll rip his soul out and bind it to a toilet."
There was a moment of silence in the church. Tohsaka seemed vaguely contemptuous of El-Melloi's outburst – Matou, if anything, seemed impressed.
"No kidding," he said. "Insurance or no insurance, threatening children is crossing a line. I'd feel better if he kept his Assassin where we could see them, that's for sure."
Serenity supposed that was her cue.
With a clatter that rang like gunshots around the church hall, a handheld radio fell from the rafters to land in the middle of the three magi.
They craned their heads to see where it had come from, but she had already moved into another patch of shadow, and was dematerialised in any case. When they couldn't find her, they all stared at the radio as if it was going to explode.
"I'll get right to the point," came Kiritsugu's voice from the radio. "I'm offering the services of Assassin to help deal with Berserker."
There was a pregnant pause.
"…I hope he doesn't expect us to sully our hands with that modern technology," sniffed Tohsaka.
Matou snorted. "You're just saying that because you have no idea what button to press to communicate through that radio."
"By all means, enlighten us," said Tohsaka without missing a beat. "I'm sure the Matou family must have resorted to worse following its tragic decline."
"Yeah, no, nice try, but I'm not touching anything the Magus Killer's handled."
"I can hear you all just fine," said Kiritsugu. "And if I wanted you dead, it wouldn't have been a radio falling from the ceiling."
Silence, once more, as each man had his own personal moment of realisation. Serenity sighed silently. Once again, Kiritsugu seemed dead set on making enemies.
Kiritsugu's voice came – not over the radio this time, but inside Serenity's head. Assassin. There a number of familiars heading towards the church. Do not be seen.
Understood, Serenity sent.
"Assassin is very menacing, I'm sure, but are you sure she's in the right place?" said Tohsaka mildly. "If you really are interested in helping out against Berserker, she's currently…" He looked over at El-Melloi.
"Shinto," said El-Melloi, his eyes distant. "Heading north."
"I won't risk Assassin against Berserker in a straight fight," Kiritsugu said flatly. "There's an easier way."
"What's that?" asked Matou.
"Berserker's Master. Assassin will find him, then kill him. Any information you have would be helpful."
Tohsaka raised an exquisite eyebrow. "If we knew where Berserker's Master was, any of our Servants could do as much with little trouble."
"You will need all of your Servants to stall Berserker. And you run the risk of allowing her Master to summon her with a Command Spell. Assassin can ensure he is dead before he knows he is in danger."
Another silence. Matou eyed the radio again.
Up in the rafters, Serenity noticed a small stone owl swoop on silent wings through an open window. It fluttered and landed in an alcove, crystal eyes gleaming and its head swivelling.
It might be able to see her, even dematerialised as she was. Magi had all sorts of tricks, and their familiars were no different. However, Serenity had learned to avoid notice long before she became a spirit. She clung to the wall above it, still as a spider, and listened to the conversation happening below.
"I see," Tohsaka said. "The fact remains, we unfortunately have no clue as to the location of Berserker's Master. He could be anywhere in the city, hiding out and making the most of the chaos to cover his tracks."
"West," said El-Melloi. "Saber encountered Berserker as she was crossing the bridge, west to east. She's on that side of the river, I'm sure."
"Ah. I stand corrected." Tohsaka rolled his eyes. "We merely have to search the whole of Miyama. While the roads are blocked, and people are everywhere. I hope Assassin is prepared to search for a long time. I'd get started, if I were you." He craned his neck, peering up into the shadows. Behind him, another stone owl flew in and settled on a beam, perfectly placed to observe the other – and Serenity.
Or at least, it would, if Serenity were a novice. Since she wasn't, by any stretch of the imagination, she'd moved to cling to the bottom of that beam, out of sight of both familiars. Tohsaka frowned.
"No need," said Kiritsugu. "Didn't you just ask Kotomine Kirei to locate his father and Berserker's Master?"
Tohsaka stiffened. Serenity allowed herself a smile. Lip reading was such a useful skill for an infiltrator. It was a good thing the skill had carried over to Japanese. Thanks to the Grail, no doubt.
… the listening device she'd planted on Tokiomi's collar without his realising helped, admittedly.
"Goddammit, Tohsaka," growled Matou, a vein pulsing sluggishly in his neck. "I've had it up to here with your shit. Stop fucking around with politics and strategy and just help for once."
Tohsaka sighed, folding his arms across his chest. "As always, you fail to see the big picture. I have no control over Kotomine Kirei, and certainly none over his Servant. He was worried about his father, as well he might be, and I merely suggested he might ask Lancer to search for him – and that if Lancer came across someone who matched the description of Berserker's Master, we should be informed. The Moderator is key to the smooth functioning of the Holy Grail War, and a personal friend of mine besides. It's only natural I should divert assets to ensure his safety, and who better than the Servant paired with his son?"
As Tohsaka defended himself, Serenity was on the move. The owls had a fairly simple search pattern – probably so that they could run it themselves without requiring the attention of their increasingly distracted Master. However, that also made them easy to avoid, and in the gap where neither of them were looking at her Serenity dropped to the floor, nothing more than a flickering shadow, and hid herself in a dark corner.
"You didn't want to request that Lancer aid the other Servants in battle?" Kiritsugu asked. "Using a Servant to search a city for one man is a strange use. Assassin is suited for it, but Lancer is not – unless, of course, you already know their true identity, and what they are capable of."
"If you are accusing me of something, Magus Killer, say it and be done," snapped Tohsaka.
"Hardly an accusation. Just a note that Rider and Lancer appear to be in alliance."
"We are not."
"Assassin heard differently."
Tohsaka looked venomous at being caught out, but said nothing. Serenity hoped Kiritsugu wasn't about to mention that she'd also witnessed Tohsaka conspiring with the Moderator. It would only muddy the waters to reveal that now, when the other two Masters were co-operating to retrieve him from Berserker's clutches. Conspiracy or no, Berserker needed to be stopped. Tonight.
Matou's left hand shook violently, until he clamped down on it with his right. "I can believe it. The priest kid cut ties before the War started, but I guess it was an act. Damn it. Guess Lancer got added to Archer's list of targets."
"After we stop Berserker," said El-Melloi. "Focus."
"Yeah, yeah."
The Masters lapsed into silence, but Serenity had only been following the conversation with half an ear anyway. With Matou growing more suspicious, a small number of some kind of winged insect made their way into the church – through open windows, doors, through cracks in the stonework, anywhere they could.
Insect familiars. Weak. Far, far weaker even than the Tohsaka stone owls, unable to see spirits, and while larger and meaner than normal insects they could still be crushed with ease by a normal human.
However, their weakness worked to their advantage. Any that touched Serenity's exposed skin or even got too close to her breath would die – and alert the magus controlling them. She was dematerialised, of course, and as a spirit didn't need to breathe, but you could never be too careful with magical creatures.
With the stone owls up in the rafters, and more and more insects worming their way in to the church, this was beginning to resemble a challenge.
Serenity wove her way through the erratically buzzing insects, ducking and pivoting to make sure she didn't touch even a single one. She took a meandering route around the outside of the room, keeping herself concealed in patches of shadow, her mental model of the owls so perfect she could tell where they were looking with her eyes closed.
She settled underneath a pew, so close she could reach out and touch El-Melloi's ankle – if she'd wanted to kill him, of course. She snuggled herself in to the wood, and smiled. It wasn't her place to complain that the War had been boring, but it did feel good to make use of her talents.
A door swung open, behind the altar, revealing Kotomine Kirei. He glided through, a ghost in a priestly collar, and emerged from the shadows behind Tohsaka.
"It is done," he said, making everyone present jump. Serenity noted with professional approval how well-concealed his approach had been. He was never going to sneak up on her – but it only cemented his position as 'most dangerous enemy Master'. Serenity focused, and confirmed to herself that she was able to kill him at a moment's notice. A thrown knife would do it. It was a bit awkward from her position, but that was no obstacle to a true professional.
Kotomine seemed unperturbed by the effects of his entrance. Instead, he walked over to the radio and crouched next to it. "What is- ah. I presume the Magus Killer has entered the game."
"Yes," said Tohsaka. "I'm told this type of device requires input from the user, so if he can hear us Assassin must be nearby… possibly." He eyed his stone owls, still fruitlessly searching.
"Never mind that," El-Melloi said. He leered triumphantly at Kotomine. "So, Master of Lancer, have you found Berserker's Master?"
To his credit, Kotomine Kirei didn't miss a beat, didn't even raise an eyebrow at surprise at his supposedly secret task being revealed. "I have," he said. "And more than that. My father is alive, and in the company of three others. One I can only presume to be Berserker's Master. The other two are more concerning. Caster and her own Master are nearby, and appear unconcerned. What they are all doing together, I can only speculate."
"Waver Velvet…" El-Melloi snarled. "I knew that boy was trouble. Disruptive and impertinent even in school, and now he allies himself with Berserker? He needs a lesson in true magecraft, and soon."
"No doubt," said Tohsaka, rolling his eyes. "An alliance between Berserker and Caster, though… yes, troublesome. Caster is well-suited to defend the Masters, allowing Berserker to rampage free. I had thought… well, no matter. Gentlemen, I hope this lays your fears to rest regarding the Moderator. If we could return to the matter of fighting Berserker?"
"Whoa, hang on," said Matou. "Where are they? You never said."
Tohsaka looked at him scornfully. "Do keep up, Matou. Now that Caster is involved, we would be better served going after Berserker directly than walking into whatever trap she has set. I should have thought that would be obvious."
Matou sneered, but didn't say anything. His agitation still showed though, and the insects had begun to gather around him, ready to defend their master. El-Melloi fingered some kind of talisman, and muttered an aria under his breath. With a soft crackle, a barely-visible field expanded around his person – and every insect that came into contact with it spasmed and died. Matou threw him an annoyed look, which was soundly ignored.
Still, the insects were annoying. As a shadow, Serenity slipped out from under the pew, and wove her way through the buzzing, darting forms to scramble up a column and cling, gargoyle-like, to the top.
Tohsaka's nervous, Serenity sent.
Yes, came the reply. Still worried about someone getting the Command Spell by taking out Berserker's Master?
Could be. Master, we need that location from Kotomine Kirei.
There was a small pause as Kiritsugu thought. You'll need to handle Caster. I don't know what she's playing at, but she's up to something, and it involves Berserker and her Master.
Do you want Caster killed along with Berserker's Master?
Only if possible. Stopping Berserker is more important for now. There was no question that Serenity would be able to pull it off. Once again, she was grateful that Kiritsugu was her Master. If she absolutely had to be used as a tool for killing, at least she was used effectively and with full trust in her abilities.
Understood, she sent. How will we persuade Kotomine Kirei to give up the location?
The reply had a wry flavour. Same way we do everything. Exploit our advantage for all we're worth.
Yes, Serenity was very pleased she was Kiritsugu's Servant. Anyone else wouldn't have had any clue what he was talking about.
"Kotomine Kirei," came Kiritsugu's voice from the radio. "I have faith in Assassin's ability. Please tell us where we can find Berserker's Master."
Tohsaka clenched his gloved fists, but his face was as controlled as ever. "You do not need to, Kirei. The Magus Killer would be better served by lending Assassin in the direct fight against Berserker."
And reveal her capabilities in front of half the War? Not likely. Serenity held back an audible snort of contempt. Tohsaka Tokiomi was a man who should never be given charge of an Assassin.
"How I use my Servant is my business. How Kirei uses his information is his own."
"He has no reason to comply with your demands!"
Ah. That was the straight line Serenity had been waiting for.
Serenity blurred into a silent flurry of motion, diving out into empty air. Mid-flight, she threw her hands out, and six knives ripped through the air, each making no more noise than a baby's dying breath.
The owls exploded, poisoned metal drilling through stone like paper. Shards rained down on the four Masters – but none dared move.
Each of the other four knives Serenity had thrown had found its way to rest between one man's feet, passing an inch past their nose in the process.
Serenity landed silently on bare feet, dematerialised once more, and padded past Kotomine to sit on the altar.
As messages went, it was fairly clear.
El-Melloi was shivering with impotent rage. Matou just shivered, a look of pain on his face as though he was agitated by something internal. Tohsaka simply raised an eyebrow – but couldn't disguise the bead of sweat running down his face. His Command Spells shone through his gloves, but he hadn't used them.
To his credit, Kotomine had managed to remain entirely impassive. "Wonderful…" he said. "Very well, Emiya Kiritsugu. Assassin will find my father, the Master of Berserker, Caster, and her Master all at Ryuudouji Temple. I wish you luck."
Serenity went, hearing the sounds of arguing behind her.
There was no time to waste, after all. If Rider, Saber and Archer were as bad at co-operating as their Masters were, it looked like she was the only one with a chance of stopping Berserker.
---
"Kirei. It's time. We can't let the Magus Killer of all people get his hands on an extra Command Spell. Give us a chance to kill Berserker, but if we can't manage it… it is high time for Lancer to enter the War."
---
"So, I'm to be your stalking horse, Caster?" Ibaraki said, into the space where the portal had closed. A grin worked its way onto her face, and despite the situation her blood boiled in anticipation of the battle to come. "I think not. I'll crush them all, and then you! Prepare yourself, heroes who would dare face an oni in open battle!"
Ibaraki spun, eyes wide with glee, and faced a sky full of arrows, sword in hand.
Lancer is Enkidu i am certain of it now. Enkidu presence detection skill is off the charts so finding Berserker would be child's play for him.
Wonder what Caster is planning and everyone is closing in on Ibaraki.
Ok Serenity i doubt Kiritsugu would be any better at cooperating then Kariya, Tokiomi, and Kayneth.
Wonder what Caster is planning and everyone is closing in on Ibaraki.
Ok Serenity i doubt Kiritsugu would be any better at cooperating then Kariya, Tokiomi, and Kayneth.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Him or Karna is my guess.
Asterion
People think I'm Crazy 'cause I make no Sense
- Location
- The Island of Endless Stories
I still think it could be Kagetora given how the summoning system works in this AU, but their ability to find them so quickly does make Enkidu a suspect since I don't know any other Servants with a similar detection ability.
Does Karna have something similar to that, that would make him a possibility?
Mattman324
you expected some anime, non-IRL giant robot, eh?
- Location
- Working in the basement on my giant robot.
Karna isn't similar enough to work for this.
I dont think so. Karna has alot of insane powers but nothing related to tracking.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
He would see Kirei's issues, rip them open and accept them without condemnation.
I'm speaking in terms of compatibility, not combat ability.
Karna is also such a drain on even a capable Master (I assume Tokiomi would have ways to compensate for the drain) that it would make sense to not deploy him willy nilly. Whereas with Enkidu they would have been much more aggressive with one supremely powerful attacker while the very capable defender shields the Masters.
Last edited:
A possible reason for keeping Kirei in hiding despite him having Enkidu is that the only way the other master and servants could hope to win would be to take out Kirei so its possible that Tokiomi was hoping to take out Assassin first (who specializes in killing Masters) then send out Lancer to deal with the other servants and masters.
Mizu
Software Developer
- Location
- Victoria, Australia
This was a pretty great segment, not gonna lie. Everyone was all haughty and dismissive about Kiritsugu talking via a radio, via muggle tech, and then they realized said radio could've been a bomb
Gotta love how Serenity's been depicted. She really shows off the utility aspects of an Assassin, and how they could go about killing folk without head-on battles vs the Servant. Or indeed, tripping barriers about the Master's safehouse at all, in the case of El Melloi a while back.
- Location
- Germany
does have Karna any skill that allows him to find anybody?
I get that he is ridiculously talented, but still?
- Location
- Probably at sea
Glad to hear it - one of my main aims in writing this is to showcase just how useful an Assassin Servant is in the Holy Grail War when given to someone who will use it right. Because I don't think we ever see that. Medea just has Sasaki stand in one place, Zouken has Cursed Arm mostly go after other Servants (although he has the Shadow to back him up), and Kirei uses Hundred Faces fairly well up until Tokiomi decides to waste them all in a head-on attack, but even then it's mostly as an intelligence-gathering unit.
Grand Order does have a few example of Assassins being used well - Camelot uses the Hassans well, and Wu Zetian acts just right in Agartha. Prisma Illya has the Assassin Card hang back and wait for Illya to expire of poison, because the Prisma Illya fights are, no fooling, some of the best in the franchise. But in a Holy Grail War, where each Servant has one easily-killed Master? We barely scratch the surface.
As it happens, I haven't really so far, either. Up to now, everything Serenity's done could have been accomplished by literally any Servant Assassin with a decent rank in Presence Concealment - and even so, she's had a lot of chances to kill Masters but has made the choice not to. She hasn't even used any of her Personal Skills yet, let alone her Noble Phantasm. It really is amazing how insanely deadly the Presence Concealment + 'being a Servant' combination is in the hands of someone who knows how to exploit it.
We'll get to showing that onscreen, I promise.
- Location
- America
See the trouble is an Assassin that was actually used properly in the two FZ/FSN Grail Wars would have made for a very short story. Especially in FSN, where the main heroes were two badly trained teenagers in way over their heads. Shirou especially wouldn't have lasted long in a setting with a competent assassin.
Now, to be fair, Cursed Arm had Kirei dead to rights in canon, as he did Shirou at least once, and only lost due to something he couldn't have predicted.
Now, to be fair, Cursed Arm had Kirei dead to rights in canon, as he did Shirou at least once, and only lost due to something he couldn't have predicted.