A Matter of Worth (Worm/Mighty Thor, alt-power, DEAD)

According to my knowledge, the Marvel Thor NEVER used that tactic.:confused:
Mjolnir CANNOT be even lifted by the unworthy. So it could work.:evil:
Few in Marvel can say they lifted the Hammer, I remember only Captain America.;)

Vision lifted it at one point it was in the side frame of the elevator clip.

"Elevator's not worthy".
I dunno. It's worth bearing in mind that the criteria is, essentially, "are you worthy in Odin's eye?" Being a noble warrior-type seems fairly important.
e.g. I think Miss Militia is perhaps too much of a soldier. She's loyal to the Protectorate, and does questionable things when they order it. (See: S9 arc.)

I feel like Dragon should be able to lift it, Mouse Protector if she isn't dead yet, and maybe Chevalier. Also I am one of those who believe Contessa should be able to lift it but that depends on your character interpretation.
 

If she's not worthy, would PtV tell her how to become worthy, give her a blank or would Odin give her a smiting?

Contessa: "Path to me successfully wielding this hammer against Scion?"
PtV: "Step One, turn left. Step two, walk ten paces forward. Step thr...ohshitDUCK!"

:lol

Of course. I was merely pointing out that those ratings seemed a little low.

The ratings in Worm aren't power levels. They're threat ratings. A highly creative cape with a mean streak who can turn a spot the size of a quarter any color they want would have a higher blaster rating than an absolute pacifist who can core out a mountain.
 
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I feel like Dragon should be able to lift it, Mouse Protector if she isn't dead yet, and maybe Chevalier. Also I am one of those who believe Contessa should be able to lift it but that depends on your character interpretation.
If she's not worthy, would PtV tell her how to become worthy, guve her a blank or would Odin give her a smiting?
I suspect Odin wouldn't let anyone touched by the parasites to be able to lift it (if I was Odin I wouldn't), whether they would be worthy or not in different circumstances. Otherwise he could probably have left QA in. He doesn't trust those with shard based powers it seems. Views them as infected - sick, rabid, whatever. They are pawns of the parasites. Ergo, not to be trusted with an asgardian weapon.

Hmm, I wonder how that went for the Simurgh and other precog, as far as they know with their simulations everything should be proceeding as normal. Odin just went and rewrote reality on them, wonder how long till they adapt.
 
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Well, there is the soul manipulation, and life drain thing she could do by sitting the hammer on someone. Otherwise... hmm, sharing power? Though I think that would be a shaker thing.
What soul manipulation? About power sharing, as long as she needs to touch them for the initial sharing it's a Striker power well Striker/Trump more specifically.

Grue is too amoral, and Armsmaster puts his glory above his duty in canon,
LOL! Mythological Thor and Odin would not care about a person being amoral, or putting glory over duty. They both do that on a fairly regular basis. I agree none of the people I mentioned would meet the standards of comic book Odin, that's the point.

All I know is that I'm sick and tired of Taylor being a hero but still getting shit on in her civilian life. I see it a lot in Worm stories that don't have Taylor deal with her abusers in very real and permanent ways. It's almost psychotic. It's like there's this expectation that Taylor is going to get shit on when she is Taylor.
I agree, but I don't think it applies in this story(at least not for me). The thing that bothers me is when Taylor gets a power that makes it easy for her to get out of school and/or deal with the Trio without "descending to their level" or similar nonsense that Taylor was so worried about in canon. Getting the powers of Thor and it not helping her deal with school at all makes perfect sense, unlike stories that have Taylor become super intelligent and still stuck in school without even considering any of the options she has.
 
The only people I could see as being worthy AND not instantly disqualified due to having a shard, off the top of my head, are Glenn Chambers, Emily Piggot, and possibly Jessica Yamada.

Previously even non-warrior types have been shown to be worthy (The paramedic, for example), hence Glenn and Yamada due to their simple and dedicated work.

Piggot because she didn't even let being crippled for life stop her from doing her job, she just moved to the far side of the desk.
 
Keep in mind that worthy in ODIN's eyes is different than, say, worthy in Balder's eyes or worthy in Loki's eyes. And one of Odin's myriad titles is (loosely translated) Doer of Necessary Evil. Odin is a King, not just a man (god) at his core. And a worthy King is a very different thing than a worthy warrior.

Hookwolf might well qualify, but only if the Red Skull would too -- Grue is too amoral, and Armsmaster puts his glory above his duty in canon, which would disqualify him on the values Hookwolf could qualify on.

But that assumes that purity of purpose equals worthiness, and if that were the case, Black Widow could likely wield the hammer, and the Winter Soldier likely could too.

A riveting analysis, one that I agree with. Hookwolf is certainly a great warrior in the very traditional sense- such a shame he is so misguided in his ideology, but I imagine Odin would love to have his spirit stand beside him on Ragnarok.

I am going to go out on a limb and argue Eden herself (if she had a humanoid avatar) could lift it and likely so could the Ancestor (the Entity that first proposed that they consume each other and travel into space) for not only were they great warriors, they were also filled with great purpose and fought for a worthy cause (preserving their own species, staving off entropy, etc). Like Taylor herself, they embody the concept of "doing the wrong things for the right reasons." For the same reason Taylor is worthy, so too are the Entities (at least the ones like Eden). Scion probably wouldn't count- he is too dumb.

It's impossible to argue that the Entities are evil by virtue of being parasites or predators, since humans themselves kill or subjugate vulnerable species for their own gain and are not judged as being evil by the gods (well, by the Norse Gods anyway, Buddhists and Hindus might disagree).

However, cowardice would probably be a mortal sin to Odin, so any Parahuman who did not qualify for that wouldn't be able to lift it.

And now for the kicker: Piggot could probably lift it. She is a mortal woman who regularly stand up to demigods and spat in their faces without fear. And she's not afraid to die. She has already died at Ellisburg, her corpse remains alive to guard the realms of Man against the predation of the parahuman abomination. *plays some edgy metal song*

Vision lifted it at one point it was in the side frame of the elevator clip. I feel like Dragon should be able to lift it, Mouse Protector if she isn't dead yet, and maybe Chevalier. Also I am one of those who believe Contessa should be able to lift it but that depends on your character interpretation.

Unless Vision was only able to lift it because he was a machine (a flimsy argument- if Ultron could lift it, he would have stolen the Hammer), which means all robots could lift it. But that's unlikely yo.
 
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You say asshole, I say hilarious sense of humor.
You're thinking of fanon Mouse Protector

EDIT:
Interlude 11h - The only mention of MP's canon behavior. It only dictates her antics in costume, not her real personality or mindset
Article:
"Murder Rat used to be a heroine, called herself the Mouse Protector. One of those capes who plays up the cheese, no pun intended. Camped it up, acted dorky, used bad puns, so her enemies would be embarrassed to lose to her. Ravager decided she'd had enough, asked the Nine to take Mouse Protector down. So we took the job. Beat Mouse Protector, and I took her to the operating table. The other Nine tracked down Ravager and collected her, too. Just to make it clear that we don't take orders. We aren't errand boys or errand girls either. Now Ravager gets to spend the rest of her life with the woman she hated, making up."
 
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What soul manipulation?
Thor Vol 1 363
Thor has returned to Manhattan from Asgard with the souls that were stolen by Malekith[4] and uses the power of Mjolnir to send them back to their mortal bodies.

He also resurrected a guy in Invaders Vol 1 33
The Invaders charge Thor en masse, but he brushes past them and fires a massive lightning bolt from Mjolnir, killing the Russian premier. As he stands above Stalin's body, Thor suddenly hears patches of conversation broadcast to him through his hammer. He hears the voice of Hitler, madly declaring his plans for world domination. Thor now realizes that he has made a critical error in judgment. The Invaders inspect Stalin's body and discover that it was actually Union Jack in disguise. The real Josef Stalin is safely tucked away elsewhere in the building. Thor feels guilty for the path he has taken and so he uses his hammer to retract the deadly lightning that nearly ended Union Jack's life.

It's impossible to argue that the Entities are evil by virtue of being parasites or predators
Um, Odin pretty much did that when he declared them his enemy even if he didn't say it outright. He has acknowledged them as powerful decievers that put up a good fight that must killed because they threaten the Nine Realms. But again, he wouldn't let anything related to the entities wield one of his weapons anyway.
 
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Taylor is a Cape now. She can't take some time when she's free and knows Emma and her family aren't home and use her Alexandria package to throw some boulders through Emma's house? Or Madison's house? Or Sophia's house. Make them feel some pain if Taylor is not going to give them physical pain. Make their lives unpleasant enough they have to focus on other things.

While you could make this complaint about fanfic, the same thing applies to canon. Taylor could easily do any of a number of things to the Trio using just her bug powers, with about the same chance of getting caught as she would have if she got a crossover power and threw boulders into their houses. She doesn't, and her excuse there is close to a lot of fanfic excuses. You can't really blame fanfic writers for doing the same thing that canon does.

(Also, attacking the Trio and getting caught would make her a villain. This would be worse in many fanfics than in canon since in canon she's a semi-villain anyway and attacking the Trio wouldn't really make her reputation worse there.)
 
it is the only version we really have.
No, we have two versions:

Fanon, created by us and and the Myth Wilbow created.

Myths never have much to go on but the mystery is what draws us.

Using fanon is lazy; using the the same characterization is even lazier.

EDIT: Claiming the fanon characterization is the best because its the only one available is worse.
 
When dealing with stories involving Asgard, unless Ragnarok is specifically mentioned as still happening, I always assume that it is a non-entity for the story, be it because somebody did something that averted or circumvented Ragnarok, Ragnarok is so far into the future as to be never, or Ragnarok already happened and A) it was underwhelming, B) we mere mortals never noticed, or C) we noticed, but it was written off as a particularly bad natural disaster, whereupon we went on with our lives.

I can see that last bit happening and the surviveing gods watching us developing a physical tic over it because they were hoping to use Earth as their new home/staging ground yet the humans are all still there and totally unconcerned.
 
It's impossible to argue that the Entities are evil by virtue of being parasites or predators, since humans themselves kill or subjugate vulnerable species for their own gain and are not judged as being evil by the gods

The entities kill or subjugate intelligent creatures that have done them no harm. Humans who kill or subjugate other intelligent creatures when they have done them no harm, are not considered worthy. (This mostly means other humans, but in the Marvel Universe there are a variety of nonhuman intelligent beings.)

If the rule is "you're worthy if you only subjugate creatures that are weaker and dumber than you", entities might be eligible, but that's a stupid rule. There's no reason to make the intelligence limit into a sliding scale so that if entities are smarter they also get to subjugate others who are smarter.

By your reasoning, frost giants who kill humans or Asgardians who are weaker than them, or even evil mutants who kill humans, would be "worthy".
 
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Thanks. So like Superman he simply has every superpower ever. I trust this story will give Taylor a more limited powerset.
Pretty much.

Although Odin has fought and killed two entities without any seemingly permanent injury or fuss beyond "another one? Sweet!" That's facing everything an entity has to offer as well, all the precog and freakish physics fucking skills included. So Taylor will need a wide variety of those powers if she is to put up a decent showing in line with what Thor can do in comparison to Odin if it's going to not nerf the comic source to be 'fair', and I suspect she will mostly just use the combat or practical ones for the most part. Even if she has all of those powers, she has to know about them in the first place to use them. Otherwise she'd either try and rez her mum or travel back in time to save her. Not that I think Hel would let her take her mothers soul.

I suspect, she will, since she won't have the hammer long enough to learn all the ins and outs, have about as much difficulty against Endbringers as Odin would against a full sized entity (Thor proper wouldn't have much trouble against an EB though with all the weird shit he can do I suspect, God-Force and all that, never mind Odin, since an EB is just one shard, essentially). Note, not saying it's a curb stomp, but that it's a good worthwhile fight that ends with the death of their foe and songs to be sung. The End Game of the fic seems to be Taylor fighting along side Odin and tag teaming Scion, which is what Odin seems to be implying and the way he has twisted fate to match, or that's the impression I got.

Sorry if this is hard to read, typing on a crowded train is annoying.
 
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A teenage MP, not the adult version that dies.

People don't always keep their teenage persona, so its a reasonable, yet flimsy, assumption that she remained a joker until adulthood.
She was annoying enough that the S9 seemed like a good alternative. I think it's telling about her character that no one in the story really has any fond memories of her.
Just wanted to mention that Mouse Protector is also in Chevalier's interlude
Uh, yes? That's what I was referring to, her being an asshole in a meeting. You know, her only appearance?
 
The entities kill or subjugate intelligent creatures that have done them no harm. Humans who kill or subjugate other intelligent creatures when they have done them no harm, are not considered worthy. (This mostly means other humans, but in the Marvel Universe there are a variety of nonhuman intelligent beings.)

If the rule is "you're worthy if you only subjugate creatures that are weaker and dumber than you", entities might be eligible, but that's a stupid rule. There's no reason to make the intelligence limit into a sliding scale so that if entities are smarter they also get to subjugate others who are smarter.

By your reasoning, frost giants who kill humans or Asgardians who are weaker than them, or even evil mutants who kill humans, would be "worthy".

That argument falls flat, because pigs for example have an estimated higher IQ than chimps- and chimps themselves have the IQ of 3 year olds. Let's not even factor in Cetaceans or Whales. And we regularly abuse such animals so...and yet, I have no trouble imagining that people who hurt such animals historically could also be considered worthy heroes who provided for their families and tested themselves in trials or rites that have been made into song and dance. They probably were even really awesome people and would probably defend you against raiders or evil demons.

Furthermore, Frost Giants and such are CLOSER to human level intelligences and experience the same range of emotions that we do. The difference between an Entity and a Human would be like a Human and an Ant. It would take a totally different kind of perspective for an Entity to sympathize with humans. From an Entity's perspective, they kill mortals to survive and to possibly stave off entropy for the entire universe. It's part of their lifecycle...a necessary evil. One could argue it's unnecessary if they find alternate methods- but then, humans don't try very hard at finding alternative methods to violence or exploitation either, do they? whether it's war against each other or using animals for food and labour.

Again, my criteria was assuming they're thinking like an Aesir and Taylor: "Doing the wrong things for the right reasons." Undeniably heroic even if it's not squeaky clean. They strike me as Gods that value direct old fashioned violence to solving problems and this is probably why Loki's trickster nature makes him so different from the rest. It would be virtually impossible to argue for pacifism as a form of problem solving with the Asgardians.

I am vegetarian, and I not condoning hurting any sentient beings, but just saying, I am keeping an open mind about the nature of alien life. The Xenomorphs for example, to me is a pure creature because it is utterly itself. It is as it's nature dictates and I don't think God could even condemn such a species for being exactly as they are. Humans by contrast are complex and we often do things that are not strictly for survival or even ideals.
 
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That argument falls flat, because pigs for example have an estimated higher IQ than chimps- and chimps themselves have the IQ of 3 year olds. Let's not even factor in Cetaceans or Whales. And we regularly abuse such animals so...and yet, I have no trouble imagining that people who hurt such animals historically could also be considered worthy heroes

That only makes sense if you are using the rule "you are worthy if you don't subjugate anything too close to your own intelligence, so the smarter you are the smarter the things you can subjugate", with a sliding scale. Why wouldn't the rule instead be set to an absolute scale? You can only be worthy if you don't subjugate beings smarter than chimps, period, no matter how smart you are. Why should the entities get to subjugate smarter beings just because they are smarter themselves?
 
Why should the entities get to subjugate smarter beings just because they are smarter themselves?

Not subjugating. They're using us as part of their freaky reproduction cycle. There is (kind of) a strong survival argument. Maybe they could DO better, or choose to live another way, but to do so would require...well...philosophy, which frankly isn't something they spend much time on, instead relying on calculations and math to solve their problems.

An absolute scale is hard to set.

We could probably argue that going by average intelligence, most living things in the universe are about as intelligent as say...insects. Which means that every single sapient species or above are all automatically horrific eldritch gods that do horrible things to lesser species because of incomprehensible morality. What defines intelligence? Sentience? Sapience? Who are we to decide that we have value because of our intelligence and why should the Entities care if they choose to cut off the "intelligence" scale above us- we are not intelligent (or whatever their equivalent is) to them.

Sure, Scion talked to some humans and even took directions from them- but humans too can imitate animals or observe them for inspiration, so...
 
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