A Matter of Worth (Worm/Mighty Thor, alt-power, DEAD)

SV isn't a hugbox. If he can't handle criticism, he should be posting on FF.net with reviews disabled.

EDIT: To be clear, I'm not happy about it, either, but I can understand why people were upset about the constant school BS, and would feel the need to comment on it.

I mean, the story is like 22k words long and a total of one half of the prologue and one half of chapter four had to do with the school stuff. I'd hardly call it constant school BS. I'd be pressing it to call it a primary plot arc considering how literally all Worm stories work out.

Which really goes to show how little perspective Worm fanfiction readers have, considering the complaint is that we're retreading canon and we haven't even had time to move past the first arc of the story to find good points to diverge. It's almost like complaining that the author wrote Harry Potter as growing up in a cupboard and going to Hogwarts. Certain parts of this story are so integral that we have to cover them or we may as well be writing a different character.
 
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I mean, the story is like 22k words long and a total of one half of the prologue and one half of chapter four had to do with the school stuff. I'd hardly call it constant school BS. I'd be pressing it to call it a primary plot arc considering how literally all Worm stories work out.
I've been skipping over the school stuff, so I'm not really sure how much of the story it takes up.
 
Stop: Infraction
okay just stop writing.

The trio is something to be blown past in the first 2-3 chapters.

not fucking focused on like this.

have her snap and destroy the school already or just stop
infraction This is uncivil and unhelpful. Don't tell others to stop writing just because you don't like their writing.



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SV isn't a hugbox. If he can't handle criticism, he should be posting on FF.net with reviews disabled.

EDIT: To be clear, I'm not happy about it, either, but I can understand why people were upset about the constant school BS, and would feel the need to comment on it.

But it is a hug box see I just gave you one. :)
Commenting on something is different from badgering someone or hating someone; most of this was not useful criticism but people complaining.
 
SV isn't a hugbox. If he can't handle criticism, he should be posting on FF.net with reviews disabled.

EDIT: To be clear, I'm not happy about it, either, but I can understand why people were upset about the constant school BS, and would feel the need to comment on it.
Yea SV is sometimes a bad place for criticism, because people get so butthurt by scenes that instead of giving ACTUAL Constructive criticism, they just give Destructive criticism. Many of the complaints have been the latter and not the former.
 
Commenting on something is different from badgering someone or hating someone; most of this was not useful criticism but people complaining.
Yea SV is sometimes a bad place for criticism, because people get so butthurt by scenes that instead of giving ACTUAL Constructive criticism, they just give Destructive criticism. Many of the complaints have been the latter and not the former.
That doesn't really change my point. Complaining is allowed as well. Still, if it makes you feel better, I'll fix my previous post.
SV isn't a hugbox. If he can't handle criticism or complaints, he should be posting on FF.net with reviews disabled.

EDIT: To be clear, I'm not happy about it, either, but I can understand why people were upset about the constant school BS, and would feel the need to comment on it complain about it.
 
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For better or worse, pointing out problems is easier than suggesting fixes. Yes, suggesting fixes is better, but pointing out problems isn't bad.

It's still information, and can be useful for the author who may not have noticed or thought about it in that way. Where it becomes a problem is if it's uncivil, but that's a sliding scale; some people have much different thresholds than others, based on culture or past experience.

If you're writing a comment, strive to be civil. But if you're writing a story, you need to accept that sometimes you'll get poor and uncivil criticism, when even good criticism still hurts. Authors really do need to be thick-skinned.
 
It's been made very clear to me that neither do I. Obviously I've completely misunderstood the source material.

The entire foundation is rotten, there's no point continuing.
...Why are you only answering/noticing people who excessively criticize(practically flaming at parts) you, and not the tens of others who expressed their enjoyment of your work?
 
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Neato! Two new updates since I last checked the thread!

[READING SOUNDS INTENSIFY]

Well, I'm content. I already said a while back...
Loving this so far for a big pile of reasons (longpost later, on my phone now), but I especially like the way Mjolnir works like it did in older Thor comics, physically transforming Donald Blake from a slight doctor who walks with a cane to THE MIGHTY THOR, complete with wild changes to his speech pattern.

I'm already getting some great Constellations-esque vibes, from both the mythological component and the tone thus far. This new power very clearly didn't make all of Taylor's problems go away, nor should it, but the world is that much more hopeful for their presence.
...that this is already one of those stories that make me feel glad I'm keeping up with each new update (as opposed to some fics that, while well-written, make me feel almost masochistic for how bummed they leave me), and that trend is continuing.

Similarly, you're doing something that I also really liked when I saw it in Crouching Tiger: Taylor has awesome powers that she legitimately takes pride in...but rather than making her outright mentally healthier than she was at the start of canon, it just ends up making her personal problems manifest in different ways. And that's good! Well, not good good, but good from a storytelling standpoint.

Mjolnir's quasi-intelligence aside, Taylor is still woefully lacking any kind of external support structure, and it shows. Taylor is worthy of wielding Mjolnir, but that doesn't mean she isn't at risk of slowly becoming someone who isn't. The contrast between Taylor's two main bouts of hero-ing illustrates that brilliantly. After first getting her power, she went out and did what she truly believed a hero would do with such abilities. She helped people, even if it was in ways that seemed wildly at odds with the raw power she had at her disposal. She literally got kittens out of trees and helped old ladies across the street. And when she actually did find criminals, she didn't change her pattern. She helped the people who needed help with the minimal amount of force necessary to neutralize their aggressors, and then she kept moving.

But the second time? After an exceptionally bad day as Taylor Hebert, she took up Mjolnir and went out with the explicit intention of finding people to hit with it. And, fittingly, her reason for doing so is the same as her reason for rushing her first outing in canon: the Trio pushed her just a little more than she could bear, and she responded by acting rashly, albeit heroically so. It's reminiscent of the first Thor film, too, albeit with a nice twist to it. The question isn't how Taylor will redeem herself enough to prove worthy of holding Mjolnir once again, but rather if she can't keep the problems of her civilian life (or, well, find a fix for them) from increasingly contaminating her actions as a cape.

So rock on, man! You're writing a hell of a story, and I eagerly look forward to future chapters.

Also...
He squared his shoulders. "You are familiar with the new cape who appeared a few days ago, the one the agents have been calling `Lady Hammer'?"
...I really, really hope we get some shenanigans from people accidentally hearing the PRT rank-and-file nickname 'Lady Hammer,' mistakenly thinking it's a crude euphemistic nickname, and then discovering that no, it's actually about as literal as you can get when it comes to naming a big, muscular lady who fights with big hammer.

If my omake gland starts acting up, I'll see what I can pull together involving Amy and/or Lily. They're probably in the best position to believably hear about such a nickname, and similarly to produce the most potentially entertaining reaction.
 
Too much of this seems to be coming from people deciding that narrative decisions are mistakes and then repeatedly attacking the author for it. If something is a purposeful plotpoint then you have no right to tell the author to change it. Looking at this Winslow example and going through a checklist:

Was it grammatically sound? Yes.
Were their any consistency issues? No.
Were the actions of characters in the scene plausible? Yes. (Complain all you want, the trio's actions are consistent, and so are Blackwell's and Taylor's)

Seeing how this is the case, there is no acceptable reason for readers to demand change. This was obviously an intentional plot point put in by the author, in this case to thematically display the stark contrast and following dissociation between civilian and cape persona. Therefore people attacking the author are basically saying they dislike the premise of the entire fic. If that is the case then simply do not read it. Accept it or not, the Winslow scene was a key part of the theme of the fic, and the people being negative need to stop treating their subjective opinions as if they were objective flaws in the fic. Do I like the Winslow scene? No. But then again I had the exact same reaction in canon. Do I think it detracts from the fic? Also no. Some stories work best with having the readers' emotions move up and down over the course of the plot. There are acceptable reasons to complain about a fic, but demanding a different premise or theme is not one of them.
 
I will just say that when you are writing Taylor as Thor that is awesome. You are writing an awesome story and will sad to see it go. At least we got an awesome scene out of it though. Would love more such awesome scenes.
 
All I got out of this conversation is that someone got angry that Taylor didn't go carrie on Winslow.

Past that I have no fucking idea whats going on outside of an otherwise perfectly alright story.
 
Actually, my issue with Winslow is more the seeming needlessness of the escalation. Pushing her to where she found Mjollnir II is one thing. That's plot convenience. The drug dealer accusation... seemed a bit far, even for the Trio. At this point in canon, they were dumping juice on her and doing the "Cry yourself to sleep for a week" thing.

Now, I get not wanting to repeat those exact scenarios, but the drug dealer thing is on another level.
 
Was it grammatically sound? Yes.
Were their any consistency issues? No.
Were the actions of characters in the scene plausible? Yes. (Complain all you want, the trio's actions are consistent, and so are Blackwell's and Taylor's)

the only issue I had with it was it felt a bit too much escalation but other than that? *shrugs* it did it's job, I'm ok with that. it's a shaky scene and that is all it is really. made me scratch my head and mutter "well, that essclated a bit quicker than expected..." and that was it. no muss, no fuss. although it made excited about Taylor trying to use her head to figure out what to do with the bullies and Winslow in general .

All I got out of this conversation is that someone got angry that Taylor didn't go carrie on Winslow.

Past that I have no fucking idea whats going on outside of an otherwise perfectly alright story.

I've already stated what my problem is and I won't repeat myself really. i'll just say I had very little issues with the story itself.

hopefully it'll continue :).
 
Well now, I just finished catching up on this story, and I'm enjoying every minute of it. Sure there are a few minor complaints here and there, but they're easily overlooked.

Keep up the good work mate. :)
 
Actually, my issue with Winslow is more the seeming needlessness of the escalation. Pushing her to where she found Mjollnir II is one thing. That's plot convenience. The drug dealer accusation... seemed a bit far, even for the Trio. At this point in canon, they were dumping juice on her and doing the "Cry yourself to sleep for a week" thing.

Now, I get not wanting to repeat those exact scenarios, but the drug dealer thing is on another level.
The drug abuse accusation and frame job has also been done to death in fanfiction. While I don't particularly enjoy them, I find the response in this thread to be odd. That said, its not entirely unrealistic. In canon, Emma, Sophia (as Shadow Stalker), and Allen conspired to threaten assault charges against Taylor to get Taylor and Danny back away from the bullying issue. A false drug abuse report is not that far fetched.
 
Ummmn. so I've been lurking around here for maybe a year, so first posting and all. Anyway, for what its worth I deeply enjoy this story. I do enjoy how Taylor had been given mjolnir, and interesting way on how she used powers when she had first gotten them with helping people around the city. Your writing seems solid to me and I am looking forward if this fic continues.
 
Actually, my issue with Winslow is more the seeming needlessness of the escalation. Pushing her to where she found Mjollnir II is one thing. That's plot convenience. The drug dealer accusation... seemed a bit far, even for the Trio. At this point in canon, they were dumping juice on her and doing the "Cry yourself to sleep for a week" thing.

Now, I get not wanting to repeat those exact scenarios, but the drug dealer thing is on another level.
But...aren't they roughly the same? From the Trio's/Emma's perspective, at least? Remember, the 'Cry yourself to sleep for a week' was basically the crown jewel of emotional abuse as far as the bullying was concerned. And this time around, the Locker wasn't nearly as outwardly bad as it was in canon. As awful as the Locker was, the psychotic break and subsequent week in a psych ward was overwhelmingly a result of Taylor actually triggering, which didn't happen here.

For all intents and purposes, that was pound-for-pound the worst thing that Emma had ever done to Taylor over the course of the bullying. And Emma clearly knew it, too. She waited a bit over a year to actually use it as ammunition during a time when Taylor was convinced that nothing was sacred, and it's not like it was something that Taylor had forgotten about that Emma had tucked into the back of her memory. When things were still-eh. I'll just quote it here:
I didn't want to think about the month that had followed, but fragments came to mind without my asking. I could remember overhearing my dad berating my mother's body, because she'd been texting while driving, and she was the only one to blame. At one point, I barely ate for five straight days, because my dad was such a wreck that I wasn't on his radar. I'd eventually turned to Emma for help, asking to eat at her place for a few days. I think Emma's mom figured things out, and gave my dad a talking to, because he started pulling things together. We'd established our routine, so we wouldn't fall apart as a family again.

It was a month after my mom had died that Emma and I had found ourselves sitting on the bridge of a kid's play structure in the park, our rear ends cold from the damp wood, sipping coffee we'd bought from the Donut Hole. We didn't have anything to do, so we had just been walking around and talking about whatever. Our wandering had taken us to the playground, and we were resting our heels.

"You know, I admire you," she had said, abruptly.

"Why?" I had responded, completely mystified about the fact that someone gorgeous and amazing and popular like her could find something to admire in me.

"You're so resilient. After your mom died, you were totally in pieces, but you're so together after a month. I couldn't do that."

I could remember my admission, "I'm not resilient. I can hold it together during the day, but I've cried myself to sleep for a straight week."

That had been enough to open the floodgates, right there. She gave me her shoulder to cry on, and our coffee was cold before I was done.
Point is, it was something of a breaking point for Taylor. It was at that point when she resolved to meet with the Undersiders, and it's no small coincidence that she decided to 'infiltrate' them at that point, too. Nothing quite like realizing that your single closest friendship has officially vanished to drive you to seek out new friends, even under the flimsiest of pretenses.

The drug abuse accusation and frame job has also been done to death in fanfiction.
While I realize this wasn't the focus of your post, I feel compelled to ask...has it, though? I'm trying to think of stories when Taylor has been accused of being a drug addict and/or dealer to get her in trouble at school, and I can't think of very many at all. If I increase the category to 'Taylor is falsely accused of something to get her in trouble at Winslow' then the number increases, but not even all that much.

While I don't particularly enjoy them, I find the response in this thread to be odd. That said, its not entirely unrealistic. In canon, Emma, Sophia (as Shadow Stalker), and Allen conspired to threaten assault charges against Taylor to get Taylor and Danny back away from the bullying issue. A false drug abuse report is not that far fetched.
No, they didn't. Let's not throw out words like 'conspired' when we really don't have any reason to do so. You could say that Emma and Sophia may have, but not really Alan, and that's on top of Taylor not exactly making it difficult for them.

Granted, if I was coming up with criticism (which, uh, I suppose I am) for the recent chapters? It would be regarding Blackwell's characterization. Fanon would have you think that she was cackling as she literally shredded Taylor's transfer requests and conspiring with Sophia's caseworker to have a gun planted in Taylor's locker right before a 'surprise' inspection. But in canon, Blackwell's big scene had her offering outright to have the Trio suspended on a very distinctive lack of evidence from Taylor, even when the reason for the meeting had been Taylor cold-cocking Emma in public. Meanwhile, Taylor's own request boiled down to "Transfer me to Arcadia (which was so non-viable a goal that she may as well have also requested that she be transported there via unicorn) or do nothing because I don't care anymore," and during the conversation she 'hypothetically' asked if her bargaining position would be stronger if she brought a weapon into school. Taylor fumbled that conversation hard, which isn't terribly surprising given that she was still sorta-kinda concussed at that point.

So back on topic, the idea of Blackwell all but actively conspiring with Taylor's bullies to screw with her is a rather toxic bit of fanon. Taylor already has enough problems at school that have nothing to do with any kind of active malice from the administration or teaching staff. It doesn't even really make much sense for her bullies to want to involve the staff, either. That just drastically increases the odds of them actually being caught and punished.

You made a big fucking deal about that Taylor is a girl of unbreakable will. She was worthy not by virtue that she went for what she felt was right in all instances despite the unimpressive guise of her power. despite the universe throwing it's best hooks and straights right in her face she stood up with a grimace, her knife and her swarm.

This Taylor? This Taylor is acting submissive, dizzy and actually downright pathetic if you want to be blunt. This is NOT Mjolnir behaviour. This is not even the behaviour of the canon Taylor who threw herself at the villains with a suicidal resolve because she thought she didn't have anything else worthwhile in her life.
Did...did you read the first chapter? When Odin was literally consulting the Loom of Fate to trace the path that Taylor would have followed if left to her own devices? And similarly, do you remember how Worm canon began? This is that Taylor. Except this time, she doesn't think that she has a power every bit as worthless as her own self-image, so she isn't trying to unconsciously kill herself. Also, what the hell is "suicidal resolve"? Taylor Hebert is not Shirou Emiya. The latter was out to help others no matter what it cost him. The former was out to die, and if she happened to help others in the process, then that was icing on her suicide-cake.

She wasn't given Mjolnir because of shit she'd already done. Odin sent it because he saw what she was capable of on the Loom of freaking Fate, and rather than leaving her to be broken by her destiny, he sent her an alternative source of power that wouldn't necessarily lead her to ruin in the process.

This is the behaviour of a drug addict. "Everything is awesome when I hold the hammer, finally I'm someone great and powerful. With this hammer I'm great."
Well, yeah. Unlike in canon, Taylor actually likes her powers from the get-go. The fact that she hates most of her civilian life and takes refuge in her cape life is completely understandable. And...I mean, I guess you could call it "the behaviour of a drug addict," insofar as you can call doing literally anything that you enjoy and getting additional satisfaction from it by virtue of its contrast with other, less-pleasant activities.

There is no fucking way in the nine hells this would be considered worthy behaviour. She isn't doing it for others even, she is going good for her own sake, for her own glory. God dammit, she is using the hammer for the same reason Thor did when he was judged as unworthy of it.
Oh, right. Because that's why she was literally getting kittens out of trees and helping old ladies across the street. Because she was doing it "for her own glory."

The canon Taylor threw herself out into the cape world because it was litterally the only part of her life she didn't hate, because her keystone drive to make the world better and her subconscious wish for death. THAT in the end made her the warlord willed with DETERMINATION that pushed through and defeated Scion.
You seem to think that Taylor was unconsciously trying to kill herself for a lot more of Worm canon than she actually was, on top of equating 'inclinations towards suicide' with 'insurmountable determination in the face of danger.' If that was her motivation the entire time, then holy shit would she have not deserved Mjolnir. One of the most referenced summaries for Worm is 'Doing the wrong things for the right reasons.' I don't think 'Because I'm trying to kill myself' qualifies as one of 'the right reasons.'

This was the biggest reason why I was very doubtful when it was a second Mjolnir (outside the fact that... you know SECOND MJOLNIR) instead of some other enchanted weapon of great power similar but ultimately different from Mjolnir since Taylor and Thor are VERY different people.
...what? It's not exactly Mjolnir. Thor still has that. Again, the first chapter of this story had us watch as Odin commissioned a Mjolnir-equivilant, like he's done before in Marvel comics. If memory serves, there are at least two Mjolnir equivalents out there. They're not named that, and they're not shaped exactly like the original, but the powerset they bestow is basically the same, and the worthiness clause is also in place.

When the AU elements came I assumed it was to enable Taylor to walk a parallel path that still lead to her fate of becoming the girl filled with DETERMINATION that Odin obviously saw as worthy. But that doesn't seem to be happening.
Because the story's barely started, and Taylor is still a fifteen year old girl in the midst of an almost comically awful targeted bullying campaign? Odin saw her potential. Taylor, as she is right now, is not the summation of her potential as seen on the Loom of Fate. Why would she be?

Make me understand. Am I getting the story wrong? Was the point of Odin's manipulation not to let Taylor walk the path she would but to become a completely different person from what he saw?
...at this point, I genuinely feel like you skipped over the first chapter, or at least skimmed it enough that you missed some rather key points regarding Odin's motivations.

Short version: Odin planned to go kill an creature threatening Midgard, which turned out to be an Entity. However, after consulting the Loom of Fate, it turned out that said Entity was already going to be killed by a mortal host of one of said creature's parasitic abilities. However, instead of any kind of reward for accomplishing such a daunting task, she would be broken in body, mind, and spirit, and then left to fade away to nothing while those she saved would revile her.

So instead of robbing this girl of her fated accomplishment by slaying the Entity himself, and because this was all set in motion over the guilt of having already left an impossibly brave denizen of Midgard to die while choosing himself to remain inactive, Odin forged a weapon that could imbue this mortal girl with power to still follow what had been her destiny without condemning her to being broken beneath the weight of it.

EDIT: Fixed an incomplete sentence.
 
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It's been made very clear to me that neither do I. Obviously I've completely misunderstood the source material.

The entire foundation is rotten, there's no point continuing.
Gentlemen, it is time to initiate Plan B. If positive encouragement isn't working, then we must utilize a technique that all members of SB and SV have used at one time or another.

Being mean.

"The entire base is rotten," you say?
Huuuuuuuh?!

Have you even seen how many likes the first chapter of this story has? Over 100! Every single chapter has over 100 likes! You don't get to say that your story sucks when over 100 people enjoy it.

Let me phrase it another way. So five or ten people don't like your story. Are you about to deny the 100+ people the satisfaction of reading your story? Are you about to deny yourself the warmth in your chest that you feel every time the number of likes on one of your increases just a little? Does this work of art mean so little to you?


And what's this crap about "not understanding the source material"? If you didn't understand the source material, you would have just given Taylor Thor's hammer without explanation. If you didn't understand the source material, Taylor wouldn't be speaking in Shakspearean English!

And you're going to stop this because a few people are whining? You think that's bad? EvaUnit01 canceled an awesome quest because the waifu wars and normal bitching took up the majority of the comments. The author of Ride the Lightning had to go on hiatus because his house flooded, forcing him and his wife to live in a tent for a while.

If you're having trouble figuring out where to go with the story, that's fine. There are people on this site who will help you. I will help you. I'll even read up on the Thor wiki if I have to. I've done for PMMM fic on FFN before to help characterize Mami Tomoe. Hell, I'm still helping that guy.



get to work, you asshole! :cry:
 
Actually, my issue with Winslow is more the seeming needlessness of the escalation. Pushing her to where she found Mjollnir II is one thing. That's plot convenience. The drug dealer accusation... seemed a bit far, even for the Trio. At this point in canon, they were dumping juice on her and doing the "Cry yourself to sleep for a week" thing.

Now, I get not wanting to repeat those exact scenarios, but the drug dealer thing is on another level.
Exactly. I'd like to reiterate this point. The first chapter bit was a bit silly, but ultimately acceptable because it was setting up a situation where it was almost tailor made for the hammers intervention.

This new chapter? The fact that it was a somewhat ridiculous escalation is entirely secondary to the point that it is ultimately rather unnecessary. At this point, she was more than willing to ditch from something as comparatively minor as the juice prank.
In canon, Emma, Sophia (as Shadow Stalker), and Allen conspired to threaten assault charges against Taylor to get Taylor and Danny back away from the bullying issue.
She, uh, did assault (and more importantly, battery) Emma? At the mall? Which is why they where having that meeting in the first place?
 
Actually, my issue with Winslow is more the seeming needlessness of the escalation. Pushing her to where she found Mjollnir II is one thing. That's plot convenience. The drug dealer accusation... seemed a bit far, even for the Trio. At this point in canon, they were dumping juice on her and doing the "Cry yourself to sleep for a week" thing.

Now, I get not wanting to repeat those exact scenarios, but the drug dealer thing is on another level.
Yes, this is the problem with your Winslow scene: You just dropped something more serious than demeaning or scathing remarks. This is kinda what needles most of the readers here.

The fact that Mjolnir picks worthy people and NOT people who run away from their problems via cape fight is a glaring flaw in the latest chapter. Examples of the former is that despite the chem treatments, Mjolnir washes the chems away when Jane takes up the hammer so she is dying. But she does not give in, regardless of the circumstances. Taylor, unfortunately, crumpled faster than a house of cards being hit with a pebble when shit goes wrong in Winslow and to Mjolnir. People here who read Thor and have loved the triumph over adversity and personal obstacles cant understand why a character who is known to be WORTHY of Mjolnir in this story cant just stand up to the abuse.
 
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