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A Harry Potter Quest: He who was not

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[X] I do not hate you, but I pity you

It's been awhile and I haven't reread the relevant parts of the quest yet, but wasn't the whole thing here that the Flamels stole the souls of their lifelong friends and companions?

Look. I get that people didn't want Jacob to loath himself for actions outside of his control. But can we atleast agree that this is a heinous crime? Not everything has to be ambiguous and some things should be condemned without being brushed aside. As is mentioned in the option, he isn't the man we thought he was.
 
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[X] If nothing else, then I am grateful – Their action might have been heinous, but you would not be alive without it. You would not have learned of the wonders of the world, would not have had the possibility to discover them. You are glad that they did what they did.
 
[X] If nothing else, then I am grateful – Their action might have been heinous, but you would not be alive without it. You would not have learned of the wonders of the world, would not have had the possibility to discover them. You are glad that they did what they did.


Why are we salty about Remus? Is it because he didn't teach us a spell?
 
[X] In the end, I am the only one who I can judge

It could have been the people he knows as his parents who were sacrificed if things went a little bit differently.
 
Dutch said:
Look. I get that people didn't want Jacob to loath himself for actions outside of his control. But can we atleast agree that this is a heinous crime?
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The option says it in the description, it is in no way Jacob thinking it was a good ideia or right. He isn't an edgy teenager for all his shortcomings in the empathy score. It is him acknowledging that he was born from it and that he is a person who is happy with his life.

"If nothing else, then I am grateful – Their action might have been heinous, but you would not be alive without it."
 
[X] If nothing else, then I am grateful – Their action might have been heinous, but you would not be alive without it. You would not have learned of the wonders of the world, would not have had the possibility to discover them. You are glad that they did what they did.
 
One Autumn Leaf said:
Why are we salty about Remus? Is it because he didn't teach us a spell?
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Here's the section in question:
Tabula Rasa said:
"Professor", you said, coming to a halt and looking up at the werewolf. "Could you teach me the spell?

Help a random student? DC 80 1D100+2 → 69(67 + 2) → Failure.

He was smilling at you. For a few seconds you caught a glimpse of hope. It was an advanced spell, sure, but in the end, it was in the hands of a teacher to give his students all the possibilities to grow and develop themselves at the speed they saw fit. That hope ceased to exist, when you realized his smile to be a sad one. It did not reach his eyes, as he looked down at yours.

"I am glad that you grasp for such lofty goals. But I do not think, that it is possible for you to learn it, my boy." His hand pushed against your shoulder to bring you back into movement. You followed his lead and picked your speed up the stairs you had reached. "It is something most adults fight with, you should wait and try again once you have a better grasp over charms and spells, Mr. Basques."

You didn't answer to that. Why would you say anything more, when it was clear that his decision had been felled? In the end the two of you would never be able to agree. Your Professor had shown himself to be a kind but ignorant man. He was without imagination and creativity, not able to see that there was not a thing in the world that had no viable path.

'I disagree, Professor', you wanted to say. 'There is absolutely nothing I cannot do.'

But in the end, you didn't say any of it.

Words were wind.
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It's not really that Lupin didn't choose to help Jacob. It's that he unintentionally insulted one of Jacob's main life philosophies. And Jacob took that extremely personally.

I also think Jacob overreacted but the guy's 13. He's allowed to be a little moody.
 
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Mr. Sandman said:
The option says it in the description, it is in no way Jacob thinking it was a good ideia or right. He isn't an edgy teenager for all his shortcomings in the empathy score. It is him acknowledging that he was born from it and that he is a person who is happy with his life.

"If nothing else, then I am grateful – Their action might have been heinous, but you would not be alive without it."
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It still does too much to justify their deeds. To brush aside their wrongs. It is being grateful of the collaborator for sending hundreds to the camps just because it allowed your parents to meet eachother.

This isn't just about Jacob. For centuries the Flamels lied and betrayed the people who trusted them, snatched up their souls and used them to fuel their Alchemy. And if it had been up to them they would have continued doing so for hundreds of years more.
 
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Dutch said:
It still does too much to justify their deeds. To brush aside their wrongs. It is being grateful of the collaborator for sending hundreds to the camps just because it allowed your parents to meet eachother.

This isn't just about Jacob. For centuries the Flamels lied and betrayed the people who trusted them, snatched up their souls and used them to fuel their Alchemy. And if it had been up to them they would have continued doing so for hundreds of years more.
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This is about Jacob though. It is not necessarily a question about the morality of the action itself, because he does consider it heinous in all of the options, but how he comes to grips from his existence deriving from a horrific act. Does he entirely reject it and erase it from memory? Stay conflicted about it, or accept that those were the circumstances of his birth and that he is, in the end, someone who is grateful for being able to be who he is today? Imo the latter is the right option.
 
It is also a relief that DADA is finally at A, since obtaining Protego (Deep Understanding) was being pushed so heavily. With it out of the way, perhaps the other classes could now be brought up to par? Charms, Transfiguration, and Potions are not too far behind, but Herbology, Astronomy, and History have been neglected because of it. Yes, they will automatically increase and be at O by 3rd year standards, but one thinks that they can be afforded a boost to start closing the gap with DADA.
 
[X] I do not hate you, but I pity you – You don't want to break contact with the man, because you do not want your parents to find out what the reason for this is. He has not many years left to his life. You will humour him, but he is not the man you had thought him to be.
 
[X] In the end, I am the only one who I can judge – You do not think that his actions were justified. Even if you would not be alive without him and his wife, the cost was too large. The logical conclusion is easy, but you do feel conflicted. You remember how well they have always treated and cared for you. Who are you to judge their actions, when you have not walked their shoes?
 
Tzaphquiel said:
It is also a relief that DADA is finally at A, since obtaining Protego (Deep Understanding) was being pushed so heavily. With it out of the way, perhaps the other classes could now be brought up to par? Charms, Transfiguration, and Potions are not too far behind, but Herbology, Astronomy, and History have been neglected because of it. Yes, they will automatically increase and be at O by 3rd year standards, but one thinks that they can be afforded a boost to start closing the gap with DADA.
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I am not really that interested in increasing those subjects, I would rather increase our Alchemy, Arithmancy, and Care of magical creatures that have much more practical applications.
 
[X] In the end, I am the only one who I can judge – You do not think that his actions were justified. Even if you would not be alive without him and his wife, the cost was too large. The logical conclusion is easy, but you do feel conflicted. You remember how well they have always treated and cared for you. Who are you to judge their actions, when you have not walked their shoes?
 
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[X] In the end, I am the only one who I can judge – You do not think that his actions were justified. Even if you would not be alive without him and his wife, the cost was too large. The logical conclusion is easy, but you do feel conflicted. You remember how well they have always treated and cared for you. Who are you to judge their actions, when you have not walked their shoes?
 
Mr. Sandman said:
This is about Jacob though. It is not necessarily a question about the morality of the action itself, because he does consider it heinous in all of the options, but how he comes to grips from his existence deriving from a horrific act. Does he entirely reject it and erase it from memory? Stay conflicted about it, or accept that those were the circumstances of his birth and that he is, in the end, someone who is grateful for being able to be who he is today? Imo the latter is the right option.
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It is a "It was heinous, but...." answer. Nothing more.

There is a place for ambiguity, acceptance and nuance. This isn't that place.

Sometimes an uncompromising moral stance has to be taken. Needs to be taken.

Nicholas betrayed the trust placed in him by everyone living on the island. Friends, admirers, strangers. People hoping to spend the last years of their lives in peace. He gave up on his dreams to use his knowledge to create a better world, to use some of his knowledge to make up for what he did. Under pressure form his wife he commited to stealing the souls of hundreds, despite personally not even wanting to nor seeing any need for it. He did not move stop his wife even when he knew how wrong this all was, when he couldn't bring himself to do it.

And he would have continued to do so for hundreds of years if not for circumstances outside of his control. Our parents and everyone Jacob grew up with have or would have been snatched up by Perenelle's snare. Forever barred from entering the afterlife. Used in whatever new experiment Nicholas could come up with to prove his "genius".

He gave us life, yes. But does he deserve our gratefulness? Are we unable to judge him for his actions?

I don't think so.
 
[X] In the end, I am the only one who I can judge – You do not think that his actions were justified. Even if you would not be alive without him and his wife, the cost was too large. The logical conclusion is easy, but you do feel conflicted. You remember how well they have always treated and cared for you. Who are you to judge their actions, when you have not walked their shoes?

Dutch said:
He gave us life, yes. But does he deserve our gratefulness? Are we unable to judge him for his actions?

I don't think so.
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I get where you are coming from, and I do agree that I would have preferred Jacob to have taken a moral stand. However, we already voted on Jacob's stance on his birth with Perenelle...and we chose for him to think that what she did was achieve something great. It would be inconsistent for Jacob to believe one of the driving forces of the plan was "one of the few Greats" walking the Earth but then find the man who was her partner in the idea is to be pitied.

Thus, my vote for a non-judgmental Jacob. I don't want him to condone the act, but I think it's inconsistent for him to condemn it.
 
MysteryCPU said:
I get where you are coming from, and I do agree that I would have preferred Jacob to have taken a moral stand. However, we already voted on Jacob's stance on his birth with Perenelle...and we chose for him to think that what she did was achieve something great. It would be inconsistent for Jacob to believe one of the driving forces of the plan was "one of the few Greats" walking the Earth but then find the man who was her partner in the idea is to be pitied.
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There are plenty of historical people who did great and terrible things and can be despised for their deeds, let alone shunned and pitied.

If nothing else Perenelle had conviction. Nicholas didn't even have that.
 
Seemingly useful or not, Astronomy, History, and Herbology cannot be allowed to lag indefinitely, not if the higher skill thresholds are to be reached.

- Can't get higher than 12 if not at least 5 skills are at least 12
- New threshold at 15. No skill can go higher than 15, if not at least 7 skills are 12 or higher and three are 15 or higher
- New threshold at 17. No skill can go higher than 17, if not at least 10 skills are 12 or higher and five are 15 or higher
- New threshold at 20. No skill can reach 20, if not at least 12 skills are 15 or higher
 
Tzaphquiel said:
Seemingly useful or not, Astronomy, History, and Herbology cannot be allowed to lag indefinitely, not if the higher skill thresholds are to be reached.

- Can't get higher than 12 if not at least 5 skills are at least 12
- New threshold at 15. No skill can go higher than 15, if not at least 7 skills are 12 or higher and three are 15 or higher
- New threshold at 17. No skill can go higher than 17, if not at least 10 skills are 12 or higher and five are 15 or higher
- New threshold at 20. No skill can reach 20, if not at least 12 skills are 15 or higher
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Yeah, but we should focus first on more useful subjects and once we have those leveled up we can focus on the rest...
 
Fanhunter696 said:
Yeah, but we should focus first on more useful subjects and once we have those leveled up we can focus on the rest...
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We're so far ahead of the curve that we could wait for the automatic level-up and still pass with an O.

What we should really be aiming for is an increase to the number of spells we know. Although it's nice to finally have protection from dementors, spending all our AP on one spell without trying anything else feels bothersome and limiting.
 
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