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A Golden Island To The West — California ISOT from 2018 to 1850

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Zap Rowsdower said:
Which island becomes New Liberty Island instead of Bedloe's?
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My guess? Probably something in San Francisco Bay. Just think about it: That brightly-colored bridge, shrouded in fog even as the ship full of tired immigrants sails in. They yearn for the opportunities California offers them. Seemingly endless hot water, homes considered by the locals to be humble more grand than a palace, knowledge of things they never even heard of before, and countless other wonders of freedom and the hope of a better tomorrow. But as they cross under that gate, they see an island, once used as a prison for some of the worst offenders in their lost history. But in the place of chains and guard towers, there stands a brilliant statue, starting to reflect the sun's light as it shines over the mountains beyond.

I say Alcatraz, for the maximum irony of it. Once a place where the worst lived and died, now the place where those who could prove to be the best can finally find hope.
 
Also note that this is another reason why California is likely to expand like crazy-- the Oregon Territory could provide lands for literally millions of immigrants.
 
Something to think about. The steel industry. California has one of the largest steel Mills in the world, but Its almost exclusively fed with imported unfinished slabs. Without those imports any major construction will probably grind to a halt. That means far fewer nuts, bolts, screws, nails, rebar, all thread, brace rod, chains, fencing, street lights, electrical poles, cell towers...etc.
 
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Ironically, compared to 19th century America, California would be seen as very religious, almost to the point of zealotry.
 
Instant Sunrise said:
Ironically, compared to 19th century America, California would be seen as very religious, almost to the point of zealotry.
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Yes and no. There are more zealots, but also a WHOLE lot more Atheists and Agnostics, and overall church attendance is down in the population as a whole, even among the nominally religious.

The Church is no longer the social and moral center of the community.
 
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I can attest that there's also very little stigma here for being an atheist. That 45 percent is dwindling though. 20 years ago it was closer to 60 percent. Irreligious has been the fastest growing minority group since the 90s Nation wide.
 
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Antix_Shadows said:
I can attest that there's also very little stigma here for being an atheist. That 45 percent is dwindling though. 20 years ago it was closer to 60 percent. Irreligious has been the fastest growing minority group since the 90s Nation wide.
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Of course what 'irreligious' and 'devout' tend to mean in the mid 19th century and what they mean in the early 21st do not mesh to the degree that either side will reflexively grasp.
 
Instant Sunrise said:
Ironically, compared to 19th century America, California would be seen as very religious, almost to the point of zealotry.
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Mega churches would likely be a point of some concern for downtimers, largely due ot the concentration of both religious and political power--Remember that one common attack against the Mormons was that they were establishing a theocratic government.
 
Fabius Maximus said:
Mega churches would likely be a point of some concern for downtimers, largely due ot the concentration of both religious and political power--Remember that one common attack against the Mormons was that they were establishing a theocratic government.
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As well as the source of a lot of anti-catholic sentiment from the know nothing party.
 
I wonder if atheism can continue to grow in the face of what can only be described as an Act of John De Lancie. It's hard to maintaina disbelief in higher powers when Q is openly fucking the timeline.
 
Axiomatic said:
I wonder if atheism can continue to grow in the face of what can only be described as an Act of John De Lancie. It's hard to maintaina disbelief in higher powers when Q is openly fucking the timeline.
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Easily--for the reason you mentioned--if you're an athiest, it's merely something like the Q, but not god. If you're religious, it's god.

So long as there are no other events, it would be easy for people to fit the event into their own cosmology.
 
Fabius Maximus said:
Easily--for the reason you mentioned--if you're an athiest, it's merely something like the Q, but not god. If you're religious, it's god.

So long as there are no other events, it would be easy for people to fit the event into their own cosmology.
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I might be inclined to buy a Discord figurine and light a couple of candles around it just in case.
 
Axiomatic said:
I wonder if atheism can continue to grow in the face of what can only be described as an Act of John De Lancie. It's hard to maintaina disbelief in higher powers when Q is openly fucking the timeline.
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As an agnostic atheist (I can't know for certain, but I don't think god(s) exist) I think that the furthest my opinion would change would be toward deism. I mean, pretty clearly something fucky was going on, but it still wouldn't be any of the established religious traditions for all of the reasons I have rejected them in the past.

Well, not all of the reasons, but all of the reasons that weren't "there is literally no evidence of anything supernatural ever happening".

That being said, this is California we're talking about. If there weren't a hundred new tiny New Age cults by the end of month I'd eat my hat.
 
SirKaid said:
As an agnostic atheist (I can't know for certain, but I don't think god(s) exist) I think that the furthest my opinion would change would be toward deism. I mean, pretty clearly something fucky was going on, but it still wouldn't be any of the established religious traditions for all of the reasons I have rejected them in the past.

Well, not all of the reasons, but all of the reasons that weren't "there is literally no evidence of anything supernatural ever happening".

That being said, this is California we're talking about. If there weren't a hundred new tiny New Age cults by the end of month I'd eat my hat.
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Fuck yes, it's the new Age of Aquarius, baby! Break out your tie dye shirts and your bellbottom pants and get those good vibes!
 
Axiomatic said:
I wonder if atheism can continue to grow in the face of what can only be described as an Act of John De Lancie. It's hard to maintaina disbelief in higher powers when Q is openly fucking the timeline.
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It could also be some weird freak physics thing. many of us have read comic books and shit, and time travel on it's own is easier to grasp than some all powerful ageless being. I may lean towards agnostic from the atheist side, but you'd need some pretty serious proof for me to go back to beliving that stuff.
 
There would be more atheists or agnostics in displaced califonia but there would also be more a lot more spiritualists, Deists, Pantheism and so forth who would also wouldn't be part of a any religion.

As a interesting side note another event that won' take place is the historical California secession crisis which took place in 1860 as union forces routed secessionist groups and militias around Los Angeles and San Bernardino counties who's secessionist groups had apparently were flying the bear flag as defiance against the union.

I am admittedly also reminded that the state of California also had three different attempts in the 1860s of then predominately Hispanic southern California trying to seceded from northern California and establish a separate state status from the north within the union as well.

California apparently did finally formally vote to split itself in two in 1859 but it never came to be because of the civil war breaking out.
 
Antix_Shadows said:
It could also be some weird freak physics thing. many of us have read comic books and shit, and time travel on it's own is easier to grasp than some all powerful ageless being. I may lean towards agnostic from the atheist side, but you'd need some pretty serious proof for me to go back to beliving that stuff.
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I could buya freak bug in the physics engine that runs the universe, if the displacement hadn't followed state lines - I can only see that happening if some sort of conscious, self aware entity capable of reasoning on the human scale made a deliberate choice.

A draconequus is the obvious culprit.
 
Axiomatic said:
I could buya freak bug in the physics engine that runs the universe, if the displacement hadn't followed state lines - I can only see that happening if some sort of conscious, self aware entity capable of reasoning on the human scale made a deliberate choice.

A draconequus is the obvious culprit.
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A Sunrise of the rather quick variety is the culprit.
 
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