A Golden Island To The West — California ISOT from 2018 to 1850

[Alane1]

Setting aside the logistics and infrastructure that would hamper war efforts which would limit what heavy equipment California could bring to bear and its likely California would still likely effectively slaughter most of the comically tiny US army outside of the few stationed at the coastal defense forts and sink most of the US navy before either force knew a war broke out.

That in itself would cause major issues given that the period US was completely dependent on the various US states which had their own militaries to raise troops for any major war that broke out to dramatically increase the US army in order to actually fight a war.

Of course, it was also an era where people still identified with their state first and as Americans second so it is quite possible that an US defeat could well cause the US to fall apart completely into its component states and whatever states the various settlers declare in the western territories after the US collapse.

 

[CatOnTheWeb]

Something that's interesting to think about though is that the Californians would have a lot of grass-root pressure to occupy the South, sort of like post Civil War in Lost History. Only I think the pressure would last a lot longer -outside a concerted political push/astroturfing that I just don't see happening- because while the North was anti-slavery, they were not anti-racist and had very little idea of what kind of systemic injustices would be put in place once the war was over.

California, on the other hand, has a bunch of factors pushing towards a long occupation. A bias of 'ignorant/barbarous past vs enlightened future/us,' a strongly anti-racist body politic, and first hand accounts of what will happen if they just end slavery but don't do a proper regime change.

 

[Magus Zanin]

California, on the other hand, has a bunch of factors pushing towards a long occupation. A bias of 'ignorant/barbarous past vs enlightened future/us,' a strongly anti-racist body politic, and first hand accounts of what will happen if they just end slavery but don't do a proper regime change.

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Assuming they actually strip the economic higherups in the South of their wealth and power and prop up an effective Black-lead State government, a full blown long term occupation may not be needed.

Remember that half the problem was that all the old money places/families/etc were still mostly intact. That's why the Plantation owners strong armed the new system into Sharecropping and only barely looked back.

 

[htgriffin]

Assuming they actually strip the economic higherups in the South of their wealth and power and prop up an effective Black-lead State government, a full blown long term occupation may not be needed.

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Sadly, finding or building up a leadership cadre to run such state governments will need what amounts to an extended occupation. Hopefully one far closer to that of OTL's BRD than the bumbling mess that was Afghanistan, but....

Perfect solutions do not seem on the table here.

 

[CatOnTheWeb]

Keep in mind that, while the North was occupying the South, freed slaves and poor whites were rising into positions of leadership and enacting progressive reforms.

It's just that the North got tired of the occupation, pulled out, and the reactionary backlash destroyed it all in a bout of incredibly illegal violence. Then, once they were back in power, they set about writing the Lost Cause. California could easily occupy the South long enough for the new government to gain legitimacy and power of its own, because they'd have plenty of historical records to justify doing so.

 

[Shaithan]

Until a robust rail network is set up across the south, any dreams of a real occupation are just that, dreams. It can't be supplied by air, given that airframes are a limited commodity and supplying an occupation force of at least 200.000 men across an area half the size of the EU is a fool's errand. Supply by boat? Sure, let's just unload our container freighters in a harbor that has none of the infrastructure needed to put up a container freighter safely or the infrastructure needed to work with containers. Also it'll take weeks for one round-trip. If you're unlucky you don't have container ships that can unload themselves, because those things are really rare these days. And then there's still the question of "How do we get the supplies to the guys outside the port city?" Trucking? That's going to go really well with the general state of roads in the 1850s.

Inside California there will be many powerful interests who'd push against the notion of expropriation abroad, lest it leads to a precedent that happens at home.

I'd consider it more likely that the South would be handed a series of demands it has to fulfill for the bombing to stop and California patting itself on the back for not having to do a long and costly occupation and having ended slavery.

 

[Saint_007]

Keep in mind that, while the North was occupying the South, freed slaves and poor whites were rising into positions of leadership and enacting progressive reforms.

It's just that the North got tired of the occupation, pulled out, and the reactionary backlash destroyed it all in a bout of incredibly illegal violence. Then, once they were back in power, they set about writing the Lost Cause. California could easily occupy the South long enough for the new government to gain legitimacy and power of its own, because they'd have plenty of historical records to justify doing so.

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Except that though California probably has the men for it, it does not have the economy for it. Plus, given the original 2018 mood California came from, not a lot of people will have the appetite for the long-term occupation needed for such reforms to go through, given the bitter lessons of Iraq and Afghanistan (the former having been abandoned a few years prior, while the latter would be abandoned two years after Calexit).

Also, while the South was almost 50% African-American, they don't have the political clout or network to enforce their presence on the election scene. Yes, they voted for assorted freedmen and carpetbaggers once free, but the moment the Union occupation ended, the Jim Crow laws came down hard and fast and African-Americans could not push back effectively. Also, trying to force an African-American leadership is going to need an outside force to preserve it, especially since the locals (especially the poor whites) are going to take it as a personal slight that their former inferiors are now their bosses, and that everything the rich plantation owners said came true (that the North and Cali are going to force the n*****s down their throats). While a Southern insurgency isn't going to be anywhere near as resourceful or hi-tech as the Iraqi or Afghan insurgencies (let alone anything we've seen in Syria), they're going to be very persistent, meaning it's practically going to be a generation or so before the racism subsides enough to allow African-American voters as acceptable.

 

[Alane1]

How much African Americans in the period made up the population in the south very much varied from state to state and region to region.

Whites tended made up the vast majority of the population in the upper south while a number of the deep south states tended to be far more split between blacks and whites with some deep south states being majority black.

It likely wasn't surprising that the Upper south historically also tended to have the largest free black population while the deep south had the smallest free black population.

But then there was a number of social, political and economic differences between the deep south and upper south which always left me viewing it making near impossible for the confederacy to have held together for a long if it had somehow won the civil war I would have been surpised if it lasted a generation.

The economic policies that would favor the deep south's vast planation dominated economy would have hurt the more diverse and more industrialized economies of the upper south and while the deep south excluded everyone who wasn't a plantation owner from voting white merchants, industrialists, yeomen farmers, tenant farmers and whites workers very much were also allowed to vote in the upper south.

And of course, outside powers would have gleefully advantage of such conflict.

 

[kaazmiz]

Until a robust rail network is set up across the south, any dreams of a real occupation are just that, dreams

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They can't really even do that now, since in the push to respect the native Indians to the east of Cali, they automatically made their job of building a rail link to the East Coast that much harder, as they need to respect sacred and hunting grounds. On top of Cali's own nature preservation and safety laws.

Shipping things over from Cali is just as hard because they need to go around South America.
Large container ships would still take 20 to 30 days. Coasters, which is a more likely candidate due to their smaller size and ease of fitting in unmodified ports, would need nearly 2 months.

At this point Cali is more likely to order building giant wing-in-ground effect float-planes to land on lakes to move resources from one coast to the other.
That, or hot air airships are back in vogue.

Golden Island To the West becomes a dieselpunk story?

 

[htgriffin]

Keep in mind that, while the North was occupying the South, freed slaves and poor whites were rising into positions of leadership and enacting progressive reforms.

It's just that the North got tired of the occupation, pulled out, and the reactionary backlash destroyed it all in a bout of incredibly illegal violence.

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Exactly.

It will take a decade, probably more, of serious Boots-On-Ground to keep the angry reactionaries from shooting their way back into power while building an internal security apparatus along with the cadre of native-born leadership that has internalized Universal Suffrage as a good thing. Oddly enough the Upper South may be more willing to capitulate as more of their vested interests can afford to adjust to a free black portion of the electorate given the Alternative.

 

[Model DC.14F]

If there is a Civil War right after the America-California War concludes, I'm hoping that there will be an interwar period just to see how the political calculus of the US has changed now that the disparity between the North and the South has grown even larger due to the South having its shit kicked in compared to the relatively untouched North.

I could see that the motive for the war changing from slavery to whether the North should help pay to rebuild the South. An interesting outcome could be that the regional support for Federal vs State power would be switched compared to OTL. The South alternates between claiming that "Of course all Americans need pitch in to help the most devastated regions" and blaming losing the war on weak-willed Yankees refusing to fufill their national obligations, and uses the fact that still have control over the white house and (probably?) half of the Senate to try to force through laws to that effect.

This, naturally, pisses off the North, which demands reforms in exchange, refusing to suffer for the 'Folly of Slavers", which eventually devloves into the Civil War. Afterwards, the South claims it could have been avoided if the North was a team player, while the North blames it on Federal Tyranny.

 

[Alane1]

The worst case scenario for California and the scenario of glee for the European powers would be the United States dissolving in response to or during the war.

Such a scenario would force California to have negotiate with all the various states to end the war while the European empires would be utterly gleeful as it would feed into their own internal propaganda.

 

[Midnighter13]

As far as what would happen post-Northern secession, I see the South a lot more likely to shatter than the North. The regional 'New England' identity is pretty strong, and so long as the big three cities (New York, Philadelphia, and Boston) push for unity, I think they could pull it off. Those areas where the heart of the original revolution, and I could certainly see them creating a new nation dedicated to fulfilling the ideals of the Constitution and Declaration of Independence, especially with California influencing the process and offering support. You might end up with The Allied States of America, or just North America as a single nation.

The South on the other hand? If the North successfully breaks off, military defeat could lead to major conflicts between the Deep South and Upper South. The Deep South has always relied on oppression and violence (coupled with federal funding) to survive. Without the North to prop up their economy, and with Californians helping slaves escape or rebel, the Deep South is going to be in trouble. The Upper South meanwhile is going to get hammered pretty hard as most of the fighting (against both the Northern Secessionists, and later the Deep South Secessionists) will happen on their territory.

The plantation owners of the Deep South are going to blame everyone but themselves as their society collapses around their ears, and they will demand federal support to put down slave revolts while also violently rejecting any form of federal political intervention (assuming there are enough people left in the Upper South who see the writing on the wall). The upshot of it all is that any federal government that survives the departure of the North is going to have increased demands placed upon it, while also losing much of its authority and power. The South has always favored more of a confederation rather than federal model of government anyway, so a weak federal government, or even the complete dissolving of the remaining federal government may be ideal from the southern perspective. If nothing else, a lot of plantation owners would see state independence as a way for them to personally acquire more direct political power, as the state governments would take on the increased power and prestige of national governments (complete with the authority to raise troops to protect the plantation class's personal property).

 

[Model DC.14F]

If the US does split completely, what do you think would happen to the non-state territories? Most of the area is too far away for any of the States to control except in-name only, especially with things disintegrating. A new nation, petty statlets, maybe even just complete anarchy? Some sort of cold war where WATO and the various ex-US states try to buildup influence/hegemony?

Would be interesting if it was the new timeline's version of the Wild West period, except instead of people from the 'civilized' east heading west to make their fortunes, its instead a bunch of refugees or rogue groups trying to escape the chaos of the civil war.

 

[Alane1]

Hmm there is a long history of the New England States of Connecticut, Maine, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, and Vermont working together as they have history of closer ties political, religious and cultural ties to each other than the rest of the country for better or worse.

The Chesapeake Staes of Maryland and Virginia (Modern Virginia and West Virginia) also have a long history of working together, other parts of the country there are old issues which could flare up.

There are border tensions that could flare back up between Georgia and North Carolina and Ohio and Michigan that would be within living memory which could easily flare back up and Pennsylvania and New York would likely try to threw their weight around without a federal government in a effort to dominate trade on the Great Lakes which could well lead to a remilitarization of the lakes.

Meanwhile Louisiana would exert a lot of influence up and down the Mississippi by sheer virtue that the critical trade down the Mississippi River that would central to the states along it would have to pass through the major port city New Orleans.

 

[CatOnTheWeb]

I think think everything from the the Missouri/Nebraska Territory out west to the Pacific would fall into California/WATO's sphere of influence. Anyone who tried to stick it out alone would eventually become irrelevant or sub toned by someone, and those who didn't would not be looking to the far away North or South(s) for support.

 

[Alane1]

Eh, the Missouri river trade likely mean that whoever controls New Orleans will have major economic influence anyone living along and near the Missouri river as that trade would have to go down the river to the Mississippi river then down to the ocean.

Even today those the Mississippi river and the rivers that run into it like the Ohio, Missouri rivers and other rivers are critical economic arteries for the modern united states down which vast amounts of goods travel even with transcontinental rail systems and vast highway and interstate networks.

Edit: Also the Missouri Territory hadn't existed since 1821, both Missouri and Iowa were states by the time of the events that sent modern California back in time.

 

[CatOnTheWeb]

Eh, the Missouri river trade likely mean that whoever controls New Orleans will have major economic influence anyone living along and near the Missouri river as that trade would have to go down the river to the Mississippi river then down to the ocean.

Even today those the Mississippi river and the rivers that run into it like the Ohio, Missouri rivers and other rivers are critical economic arteries for the modern united states down which vast amounts of goods travel even with transcontinental rail systems and vast highway and interstate networks.

Edit: Also the Missouri Territory hadn't existed since 1821, both Missouri and Iowa were states by the time of the events that sent modern California back in time.

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I meant everything acquired in the Louisiana Purchase minus the stuff that had already been made into states. It's been called various stuff (including Unorganized Territory). So Montana, Wyoming, the Dakotas, Nebraska.

Reason I think they'd fall under California/WATO is because rail development would turn them into a bridge into the Great Lakes region and let California easily curtain the influence of whoever controlled Louisiana. Sure, railroad trade isn't as good as sea or river trade, but California would be able to get a lot of influence in the region and develop their ability to project power into the North American interior.

 

[Midnighter13]

I meant everything acquired in the Louisiana Purchase minus the stuff that had already been made into states. It's been called various stuff (including Unorganized Territory). So Montana, Wyoming, the Dakotas, Nebraska.

Reason I think they'd fall under California/WATO is because rail development would turn them into a bridge into the Great Lakes region and let California easily curtain the influence of whoever controlled Louisiana. Sure, railroad trade isn't as good as sea or river trade, but California would be able to get a lot of influence in the region and develop their ability to project power into the North American interior.

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If the US broke up, those lands would end up essentially up for grabs as far as the Eastern Americans are concerned, but California would likely push to enact native sovereignty over those areas (except for whatever Mormon enclave ends up developing in Utah). I agree with some of the others above who said that no states on the East Coast could project power East of Iowa and Missouri, and even that would be iffy. There would be plenty of refugees and would-be settlers trying to move into those areas, but as far as any form of governmental control? Not likely.

Whatever societies ultimately develop in those areas would probably be heavily influenced by CA, deliberately or not. Whether that ends up as native nations, settler nations, or a mix of both, those societies would inevitably become economically and culturally linked to California.

 

[ToothMaker]

If the US broke up, those lands would end up essentially up for grabs as far as the Eastern Americans are concerned, but California would likely push to enact native sovereignty over those areas

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Eh, the treatment of the native tribes was the weakest part of the TL. There just seemed to be this assumption that dealing with them would be like dealing with a modern, more organized tribe.

(except for whatever Mormon enclave ends up developing in Utah).

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Speaking of underdeveloped parts of the TL - yeah, what about the Mormons? I can't imagine that meeting went well.

 

[DeusFerreus]

Speaking of underdeveloped parts of the TL - yeah, what about the Mormons? I can't imagine that meeting went well.

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Don't forget that there are around 700k Mormons in modern day California, far outnumbering the original settlers, which would further complicate things.

I could see many of them seeing a fact that during their exodus to the West suddenly a new state/country magically apppeared on the West coast where Mormonism is not only allowed but existing and arguably thriving as a miracle and divine sign.

 

[Zap Rowsdower]

Don't forget that there are around 700k Mormons in modern day California, far outnumbering the original settlers, which would further complicate things.

I could see many of them seeing a fact that during their exodus to the West suddenly a new state/country magically apppeared on the West coast where Mormonism is not only allowed but existing and arguably thriving as a miracle and divine sign.

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And then they find out about the political and religious positions of those 700k future Mormons and get very conflicted about what that divine sign seems to be saying.

 

[Klaesick]

I decided to check this out because I'm really into ISOTs, and I must say this is great! I love the worldbuilding the other people in this post have created, and I would love to contribute in someway! I hope the story is continued, really interesting stuff!

Also, I know he doesn't live in California, but if he did, I feel like Atun-Shei-Films would have a field day ITTL.

Excerpt from Calexit Über Alles

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If I was in this, I would probably recommend Buster Kenton. It's much closer to home for people in the setting then something like Alien or The Big Lebowski (Seriously, the Big Lebowski is a hilarious film, but I would never recommend it as a first movie to someone over 170 years removed from it). If I had to recommend a modern movie, it would actually be Wall-E or something from Studio Ghibli.

Twenty or fifty years from now, there might be a Californian movie based on this book, and it's going to be motivated by sheer spite. It's going to be like the Gone With the Wind of California, except there will be enough winks to let clear that Slavery is Bad and the Characters are not Suppose to be Heroes Actually.

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That gives me an idea...

 

[Klaesick]

I'll make a very rough outline for the Wikipedia page on a potential The Rats film that I or someone else can update later. Hope y'all enjoy!

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Rats (Film)
This article is about the film. For the novel, see The Rats (book)

The Rats is an 1876 epic satirical romance film based on the novel The Rats: A Tale of Vermin by Sebastian Vandemire and the Lost History 1939 film Gone with the Wind.
A Californian-British co-production, the movie uses actual film instead of a digital camera. Taking place in South Carolina in 1849, and California in 1853, the film follows identical-twin sisters Jamie[1] and Faith Scott, surrounding the effects of a rat infestation, the death of their plantation owning father, Justice Scott and arrival of California from the Event.

Reception for the film has been mixed. While praised for it's practical effects, set design, and two of it's scenes [2], it has been criticized for poor writing, lacking subtlety, and seeming contempt for Downtimers as a whole. It has been described by the LA Times as "The polar opposite of it's source book in nearly every single way.".

The **** wrote "A masterful deconstruction of racism through a comedic, classical lense. Truly spectacular set design and practical effects, combined with various observation of Californian society from the Downtimer protagonist that really send the message of equality home."
While in contrast, the review from Vox said "While admirable for it's anti-bigotry message, The Rats is ultimately a technically flawed, overly ambitious, poorly written film that has an extremely unfair view of Downtimers."

The author of the original novel, Sebastian Vandemire, infamously hated the movie adaption. One poster on SV went viral after saying "He makes Stephen King's hatred of the Shinning film look like he's been kissing Kubrick's feet this whole time."

[1]
Justice, "Jamie" in this version, is the main character instead of Faith, who now acts as the antagonist of the film and the "Lancer" to Jamie.
[2]

In the Gone with the Wind-style movies, I want this scene to be a normal multi-racial crowded street of Los Angeles on a work day, to accentuate how ridiculous the POV's bigotry is.

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In this scene on the movie, John is actually trying to forgive and forget and gives Justice a gold chain and putting it on her neck, which in downtimer USA would be an absolutely unthinkable act by a black man towards a white woman, by Justice is also trying to be a better person. While Faith runs away screaming, John can be heard telling Justice that the gold is just in the surface and Justice telling him that she doesn't mind.

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[Klaesick]

But midway into my visit, I stumbled upon a strange and fascinating art form known as the "video game."

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The Strange Potential of the "Video Game" - Pt2 - New York Daily Tribune, 13 Jul 1853

...I have found that the "video game", like the motion picture, has remarkable potential, even as they, like motion pictures, reflect morals that seem so foreign to what we consider proper. As California's influence spreads, so too shall their contributions to art...

I shall present another example of a video game which I was initially skeptical about, but managed to greatly surpass my expectations and has proven the potential of this new medium in another way. A way not focused on story and the human condition, but one of fun and exploration. A game for the children, but not juvenile.
This video game is called "Super Mario Galaxy".

The admittedly rather simplistic story follows the player character, Mario, in his attempts to save the Princess of the Mushroom Kingdom from the clutches of the terrible king "Bowser", who is a cross between a Tortoise and a Drake, as he manages to take the very castle of the Land to the center of the Universe. As such, the player, assisted by Starshaped creatures called "Lumas" is required to travel to various Galaxies in search of "Power Stars" in order to progress.

What surprised me the most was how much movement I had while playing as Mario. He can jump, spin, leap from m walls, somersault. run at fast speeds, and even fly for short periods of time. This works wonderfully in tandem with gravity, as Mario can travel upside-down or sideways in many instances throught the adventure. Mario also has access to various "power-ups", which give him access to various transformations. One such example of a power-up is the "Ice-Flower". Said flower grants immunity to fire-based attacks and allows Mario to walk on water by easily turning it's surface to frost.

The other great delight of Super Mario Galaxy was how, oddly beautiful it was. The various skies of the void was filled with an elegant mix of blue, black and purple, twinkling with bright, far away stars. The fully orchestrated musical score, dare I say, rivals that of even Mozart on occasion. The melody of "Gusty Garden Galaxy" comes to mind. Another occurrence that struck home to me was the story of the character "Rosalina", told to you through a story book in the video game itself. The sadness of losing her mother, and finding a new happiness in the stars with the Luma creatures.

The works of the early 21st century can come in many shapes in forms, just like the world of today. These art pieces may be strangers to us now, but as California integrates and spreads it's vison throught the modern world, I can safely say that we can bring great wonder to the globe through these new forms of entertainment.