- Location
- United States of America
Well maybe not that bad but here's some food for thought. There is a lot of worry global warming causing a 1C increase in temperature well Krakatoa caused a 1C decrease in temperature.
A Golden Island To The West — California ISOT from 2018 to 1850
- Thread starter Instant Sunrise
- Start date
- Original 19th Century Supernatural
FailLord
2050 lb bombs?
- Location
- very high up
I mean a the scenario might be easier because of the uptime knowledge of nuclear physics along with materials physics
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Triggerhappy
Stick with Trigger and You'll Make it Through
- Location
- SoCal
Pretty much. Prolific authors usually have the problem of too many ideas and not enoight time. And now you've also given them tons of fodder for new ideas.
- Location
- California
In the "concepts" bin, one thing California is going to give the rest of the world is the idea of applied R&D, which was not a thing at this point. So the moment people look at that, and let's remember, the concept can be encompassed in a small book, you'll see an ever growing ability for the rest of the world to incorporate and develop upon uptimer tech.
NuclearBird
More issues than Reader's Digest
- Location
- Here and There
Cue the subversion of expectations when they approve of a game where the player is tasked with righteously slaughtering every demon in sight.I just had a nutty thought: A downtimer makes friends with an uptimer and the downtimer's family comes to visit...right as the Uptimer's housemate is about to finally get back to playing his copy of DOOM '16.
- Location
- Charlotte
And the family takes turns killing demons.
- Location
- California
Oh man, I just realized. With the cost of housing and land In california, I bet a crap ton of people would go make claims on territory north and east. I'd do it, and then try and get California to either buy the land at a premium, or to recognize it within California territory. Gotta expand them borders.
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Zap Rowsdower
Ex-cultist vagrant
- Location
- Bright lights, big city
- Pronouns
- He/Him
San Francisco: It is up to us to recreate our Portlandian brother hippie city
- Location
- SF Bay Area
There's a reason I'm writing about New Reno....
Keep in mind, Once you leave California you are in DOwntime USA and subject to their property law. New Reno and some other cities will be solutions for housing crunches, and urban planners dream....
Some of these new cities are great, others... not so much
- Location
- California
hey i mean, it's possible that california residents might not recognize the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo borders, in a "just go ahead and try and take it from us" sort of way. and oregon wasn't even recognized formally as part of the union until 1859, and washington was even later at 1889.
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- Location
- United States of America
Possession is 9/10th of the law.
- Location
- The Old Dominion
Both Oregon and Washington was formally recognized as part of the US in 1846 as per the Oregon treaty that settled the long standing dispute between the US and great Britain as both side's settlers had occupied the area since 1818.
Beyond that 1848 was when the Oregon teritory was formally organized replacing the previous Oregon Country government and 1853 would be when the Washington territory was formally organized and split off from the Oregon territory.
Shaithan
Re-class is happiest class
- Location
- The worst part of Germany
It's still in California's best interest to acquire both Oregon and Washington. Having the Rockies as the big barrier in their east, putting US trade in the Pacific on their terms, there's a lot to gain from having these territories or from the US not having them. The main reason I don't think they should push too far into or even out of the Rockies is that this will strain their logistics. Plains are a pain to defend and the big river that could be a useful border? Too far east. So, find good defensive positions in the Rockies, grab that land and if Washington protests kindly remind them that they may well get treated like they did Mexico and the new Cali border is on the Mississippi and if Cali doesn't like what Washington does, it can always make them kneel. They are not the big dog on the continent.
Which should ultimately be something good for the US, having powerful neighbors that can and will slap down their escapades may teach them about diplomacy from a position of weakness. OTL the US could act with impunity, something that won't happen here. Hell, we might see various tribes asking California to step in as protectors as the US is clearly a bad faith actor. It would in effect push the US borders further east, give Cali buffer states on the plains and ensure that the US expansion is further curtailed. Would the US resent being forced to give up a lot of land? Sure. Will they have to live with it? Also sure. Ultimately, there's an endless series of bad faith treaties by the US with the Native Americans that can easily be brought out to show why there needs to be a hard check on any US expansion and why forcing it to give up land is justified. If they think they can get away with it, or hell, feel like they deserve it, they'll break any treaty. Better to decisively break their hands before they get any ideas.
Which should ultimately be something good for the US, having powerful neighbors that can and will slap down their escapades may teach them about diplomacy from a position of weakness. OTL the US could act with impunity, something that won't happen here. Hell, we might see various tribes asking California to step in as protectors as the US is clearly a bad faith actor. It would in effect push the US borders further east, give Cali buffer states on the plains and ensure that the US expansion is further curtailed. Would the US resent being forced to give up a lot of land? Sure. Will they have to live with it? Also sure. Ultimately, there's an endless series of bad faith treaties by the US with the Native Americans that can easily be brought out to show why there needs to be a hard check on any US expansion and why forcing it to give up land is justified. If they think they can get away with it, or hell, feel like they deserve it, they'll break any treaty. Better to decisively break their hands before they get any ideas.
- Location
- California
California will have no problem taking Orgeon, Washington, etc.
in 1850, there are 13,294 in the entire Oregon Territory.
With 39 million people in California and far superior logistics, the local populatoin will simply be overwhelmed, in a few months at best.
in 1850, there are 13,294 in the entire Oregon Territory.
With 39 million people in California and far superior logistics, the local populatoin will simply be overwhelmed, in a few months at best.
- Location
- Singapore
Which reminds me. Its probably going to be surreal when the population of the two places start crossing about. I mean, the tourists might outnumber the locals.California will have no problem taking Orgeon, Washington, etc.
in 1850, there are 13,294 in the entire Oregon Territory.
With 39 million people in California and far superior logistics, the local populatoin will simply be overwhelmed, in a few months at best.
- Location
- Canada
Reminds me of why I specifically argued in a couple Worm night-time aerial navigation debates that Honolulu should not be considered commensurate to Brockton Bay. Honululu might only be a city of 300K and some, but it's so packed with tourists that the actual population is bound to be... considerably higher.
- Location
- California
Another factor would be growing Chinese-Californian communities from immigration. Without the hostility in the OTL, and with the likely focus on education on the part of California, over the course of the 1850-1900 era, you could see large, educated communities of immigrants grow in those states, heavily interspersed with native Californians.
The social implications of this would be fascinating-- by 1900, when in the OTL race based colonialism was in full swing, you'd have a heavily integrated, multi-cultural hyperpower located on the west coast.
The social implications of this would be fascinating-- by 1900, when in the OTL race based colonialism was in full swing, you'd have a heavily integrated, multi-cultural hyperpower located on the west coast.
- Location
- The Old Dominion
Its sort of amusing surreal seeing some people calling and hoping for naked imperialism from uptime California while calling for ignoring existing international treaties and basically going mighty whitey on both the natives and downtime Americans.
At this point I am half expecting to see someone arguing for seizing western Canada and Alaska as well for the locals 'own good'.
At this point I am half expecting to see someone arguing for seizing western Canada and Alaska as well for the locals 'own good'.
- Location
- Canada
It's quite amusing to realize that someone has never seriously contemplated what to do if they came into contact with a sect/cult/religion like the Nahuatl (the Aztec religion) or the old Carthaginian religion (even if the Romans embellished slightly the Carthaginians did have child sacrifices), or even a much lesser version of such.
...Oh wait, that depends on whether action is taken by you or your rivals. Dis gonna be good when Californians visit Tibet for the first time. (I recommend reading European pre-1950 long-term visitor accounts on the feudal theocracy cause that's "more trustworthy".)
This ivory tower ideology and idea that the "locals won't want interference" is why I hate the GATE manga. (Hint: Only the ruling caste would hate major interference regardless of type. The peasants wouldn't care much as long as you didn't try to kill them all).
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You have to admit that having a region as your protectorate, and building a base nearby worked out quite well for most empires.
Lots of benefits with minimal input.
And they are already doing it in Hawaii. Its just draped in nice words and good faith for now.
I'm sure the image of friendly Tibetan priests taking away little boys and girls, with the "full blessing of their parents" for some "divine service" ,will be an inspirational moment for many.
- Location
- Canada
How long do you think it'll take before the first Californian Social Justice Warriors start loudly moaning that manufacturing and pushing polio and other vaccines on neighbouring regions is "imperialism" and that they should cease and desist immediately?
And how long after that will it take before the first case erupts of visiting Hawaiians and other Protectorate folks getting into a brawl with these SJWs?
These brawls would be started by the visitors who are filled with righteous anger of the "My wife and children lived cause of the White Ship, I could not stand there and do nothing as they slandered the good men and women of the White Ship! I could never again call myself a decent human being if I let them cost others their families in the event they managed to stop these heroic missions your people are so generous as to aid the world with! So long as the heroes know that there are those of us outside California ready to stand and be counted in their support, I fear no punishment." variety, usually found in hot-blooded young males.
Depends on how much stock the author puts in the actual European accounts, which generally support Chinese claims of "Sister Drums" i.e. drums made from the skin of "pure maidens", and other things done to the serfs ("farm slaves" were more like it). But theocracies in general tend to turn out pretty ugly, like the Catholic priest pedophile scandals in Ireland which was only dominated by the clergy instead of actually ruled by it.
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- Location
- California
Actually, Naked Imperialism would be about the best thing that could happen to the downtimers.
You know, especially the blacks, the ones who are currently enslaved under a regime Adolf Hitler spoke admiringly about.
IN fact, the astonishing idea that the law applies to all, would make California taking Alaska away from the Russians perhaps the greatest act of liberation in Alaskan history.
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- Location
- Canada
psst: "Hilter"?
Come to think of it, yeah, this is almost like a watered down version of this scenario: A UEF Supreme Commander touches down on our Earth
Where the UEF firmly planting its flag up modern Earth's ass would be a massive improvement for everyone, due to post-scarcity and other fun things.
California's not nearly so big a tech gap in comparison but, well... it might actually be MORE unimaginably advanced relative to the locals. Cause we can at least imagine the UEF.
- Location
- California
Hey, I'm not supporting the idea of exploiting or oppressing any of the people the territories I'm suggesting expanding to. In fact I would support offering all of them full citizenship and healthcare and decent jobs with good pay, and air conditioning, and electricity. Hell, California could simply buy the land for pennies. In fact, california might have too, if my expectations of how high immigration to their territory are correct.
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