CompassJimbo
Where’s Your North?
- Location
- The former Rubber Capital of the World
When I dropped that quote, I sure as hell wasn't expecting it to be used in the update proper.
A Golden Island To The West — California ISOT from 2018 to 1850
- Thread starter Instant Sunrise
- Start date
- Original 19th Century Supernatural
Call The Midwife
San Diego Quarantine & Processing Station:
Sarah Thompson was not certain what had happened at first. One moment she was standing in a queue with her few personal possessions and the odd card she was ordered to fill out, the next she was on the floor being rolled face up by a negress in some manner of uniform. Fingers clad in rubbery gloves felt along her neck, as another hand grasped her wrist.
"Damn," the woman softly blasphemed more to herself than anyone, "when was the last time you ate?"
"Three, four days ago," Sarah responded, too dazed to think of doing otherwise, "the others could not spare much beyond passage here."
"What others?"
"The other midwives."
----
The two days in the upstairs sickroom were disorienting. Some things seemed familiar enough; the devices the briskly professional nurses used to listen to her heart and lungs were clear in their function, but the odd caution they used in bleeding her was quite beyond her experience. Others, like the soft clamp periodically placed in her fingertip and the bladder wrapped around her arm before being inflated to painful tightness, were totally incomprehensible. She supposed there was a healthy level of pressure for the blood in one's body, but if so why would bleeding patients make any sense at all?
"Hello, Miz Thompson," called a familiar voice from outside the curtain, "mind if I come in?"
"Of course," she replied as she pulled the blanket up to hide the indecent night-clothes they put her in.
The negress she recalled from her collapse stepped in, and now that she was in a position to pay attention she noted the (wooden? ivory?) tab on her blouse with 'FREEMAN' carved into it.
(And the trousers. All the women wore trousers without a second thought. She could only pray her clothes were merely being washed)
"Miss... Freeman? Is everything well?"
"Yes, it's official. The only thing wrong with you was not eating and you're being cut loose this afternoon."
"Thank you all for this. I... I cannot afford to."
"County health department's getting the bill. Cheaper than an epidemic.
"Now," Freeman continued as she tugged a familiar card and an odd device out, "Let's get to what we were going to take care of before this excitement. Now 'Name: Sarah Thompson'."
"Yes."
"'Place of Residence: Manchester, Great Britain'"
A nod.
"'Occupation: Midwife'"
"Yes," Sarah mentioned with slight tone of defiance.
"'Reason for Travel:'," Officer Freeman now looked up to meet the woman's eyes, "'Stopping Childbed Fever'"
....
"It was Nan who found the broadsheet on the New California," Sarah began, "or at least found where they said how many women didn't die in childbirth. Then we started talking about how if one of us could speak to the midwives over here or at least find if some of this were written down."
"About what I figured," Freeman nodded, "I took a few liberties to save you some legwork. I'll be off shift by the time you're out the door so I can introduce you to some metal dealers that will give you a decent price on any silver or copper you have on you. That at least will keep you fed for a minute.
"Now," Freeman continued as she laid out brightly colored folded pamphlets and plainer printed sheets before Thompson, "first here are a few hostels. Some church-run, a couple of co-ops, all cheap and willing to give you some leeway. Next is a list of women's clinics around here, I highlighted the ones that actually know what they're talking about. Now here are a few stationary stores for extra pens and paper because," now came a flourish, "The public library won't loan to anyone without they don't think is staying long term, but you can read anything on the shelves at the main one downtown or the thirty five branches."
Sarah's jaw dropped, nigh on two score reading rooms? "Thank you," she whispered, "bless you."
Freeman grinned and set most of the first stack aside before handing her a card with a location and time on it. "This is just the backup though. San Diego State has an open invitation to scholars and medical professionals, convince them and you get the run of their library along with databse access and a paper allowance. You can even sit in on classes."
"Medical? But I'm no doctor!"
"My son's doing pre-med there and according to him the 'doctors' that show up have to start from scratch. You knew you had to get here, that's as good a start as any."
Sarah Thompson was not certain what had happened at first. One moment she was standing in a queue with her few personal possessions and the odd card she was ordered to fill out, the next she was on the floor being rolled face up by a negress in some manner of uniform. Fingers clad in rubbery gloves felt along her neck, as another hand grasped her wrist.
"Damn," the woman softly blasphemed more to herself than anyone, "when was the last time you ate?"
"Three, four days ago," Sarah responded, too dazed to think of doing otherwise, "the others could not spare much beyond passage here."
"What others?"
"The other midwives."
----
The two days in the upstairs sickroom were disorienting. Some things seemed familiar enough; the devices the briskly professional nurses used to listen to her heart and lungs were clear in their function, but the odd caution they used in bleeding her was quite beyond her experience. Others, like the soft clamp periodically placed in her fingertip and the bladder wrapped around her arm before being inflated to painful tightness, were totally incomprehensible. She supposed there was a healthy level of pressure for the blood in one's body, but if so why would bleeding patients make any sense at all?
"Hello, Miz Thompson," called a familiar voice from outside the curtain, "mind if I come in?"
"Of course," she replied as she pulled the blanket up to hide the indecent night-clothes they put her in.
The negress she recalled from her collapse stepped in, and now that she was in a position to pay attention she noted the (wooden? ivory?) tab on her blouse with 'FREEMAN' carved into it.
(And the trousers. All the women wore trousers without a second thought. She could only pray her clothes were merely being washed)
"Miss... Freeman? Is everything well?"
"Yes, it's official. The only thing wrong with you was not eating and you're being cut loose this afternoon."
"Thank you all for this. I... I cannot afford to."
"County health department's getting the bill. Cheaper than an epidemic.
"Now," Freeman continued as she tugged a familiar card and an odd device out, "Let's get to what we were going to take care of before this excitement. Now 'Name: Sarah Thompson'."
"Yes."
"'Place of Residence: Manchester, Great Britain'"
A nod.
"'Occupation: Midwife'"
"Yes," Sarah mentioned with slight tone of defiance.
"'Reason for Travel:'," Officer Freeman now looked up to meet the woman's eyes, "'Stopping Childbed Fever'"
....
"It was Nan who found the broadsheet on the New California," Sarah began, "or at least found where they said how many women didn't die in childbirth. Then we started talking about how if one of us could speak to the midwives over here or at least find if some of this were written down."
"About what I figured," Freeman nodded, "I took a few liberties to save you some legwork. I'll be off shift by the time you're out the door so I can introduce you to some metal dealers that will give you a decent price on any silver or copper you have on you. That at least will keep you fed for a minute.
"Now," Freeman continued as she laid out brightly colored folded pamphlets and plainer printed sheets before Thompson, "first here are a few hostels. Some church-run, a couple of co-ops, all cheap and willing to give you some leeway. Next is a list of women's clinics around here, I highlighted the ones that actually know what they're talking about. Now here are a few stationary stores for extra pens and paper because," now came a flourish, "The public library won't loan to anyone without they don't think is staying long term, but you can read anything on the shelves at the main one downtown or the thirty five branches."
Sarah's jaw dropped, nigh on two score reading rooms? "Thank you," she whispered, "bless you."
Freeman grinned and set most of the first stack aside before handing her a card with a location and time on it. "This is just the backup though. San Diego State has an open invitation to scholars and medical professionals, convince them and you get the run of their library along with databse access and a paper allowance. You can even sit in on classes."
"Medical? But I'm no doctor!"
"My son's doing pre-med there and according to him the 'doctors' that show up have to start from scratch. You knew you had to get here, that's as good a start as any."
LastStandZiggy
Last To Fall
- Location
- Kingman, Az
I see this plan of stopping a united Germany backfiring so f*cking spectacularly it isn't even funny... instead of working on stopping a potential enemy down the road that an probably be avoided, they're going to make an enemy now and force all the little Germanies into uniting anyway just to defend themselves from foreign powers.
- Location
- The Old Dominion
Hmm they smack down Prussia only to drive all the little germanies into the hands of Austria-Hungry which then gobbles up the divided Italian states in essence restoring the old holy roman empire on a far grander scale and living France, Russia and Britain with a very hostile and far larger empire in Europe to deal with and on another front a ottoman empire that's aware that the french and british carved it up in the future and thus begins to get its act together far earlier.
- Location
- SF Bay Area
I am profoundly disappointed no one noticed he was paraphrasing Bismarck.
Another Bismarck quote, possibly apocryphal, "The secret of politics? Make a good treaty with Russia."
xa na xa
A.E.I.O.U. - Antarticae est imperare orbi universo
- Location
- σ Octantis
The techno-economical development of the world is going to be be truly astounding.
Just think of Mendeleev's table; it was just a few years in the future.
With just hints from someone retelling a few basic facts, chemists in Europe could easily recreate the state of chemistry up to the early 20th century in just a few years.
That means things like petrochemical industry could get started then.
The closest analogy I can think of is the opening of Meiji Japan. Think of the difference between 1850 and 1880 in Japan. Then make it on a global scale, and magnify the speed by like an order of magnitude.
Shipping will transition to fuel oil within a decade or two. Steel production is going to bloom. Railroads will be built from the beginning with an eye to electrify and convert them to high-speed in the future (and a future not that many years away)
Superior modern hygiene and health care will lead to a population explosion (especially care of infants and mothers at birth), producing both labour force and markets for the increasing economy.
And California is going to do all it can to have maximum acceleration on that technology transfer, setting industries like combustion engines, simple consumer electronics (telephones, radio, the "telegraphnet") or basic chemicals, because the faster and the greater the world gets, the more it will buy from California and sustain and increase the Californian levels of wealth. The USS Roosevel's tour fits perfectly for this international commercial connection mission.
Just think of Mendeleev's table; it was just a few years in the future.
With just hints from someone retelling a few basic facts, chemists in Europe could easily recreate the state of chemistry up to the early 20th century in just a few years.
That means things like petrochemical industry could get started then.
The closest analogy I can think of is the opening of Meiji Japan. Think of the difference between 1850 and 1880 in Japan. Then make it on a global scale, and magnify the speed by like an order of magnitude.
Shipping will transition to fuel oil within a decade or two. Steel production is going to bloom. Railroads will be built from the beginning with an eye to electrify and convert them to high-speed in the future (and a future not that many years away)
Superior modern hygiene and health care will lead to a population explosion (especially care of infants and mothers at birth), producing both labour force and markets for the increasing economy.
And California is going to do all it can to have maximum acceleration on that technology transfer, setting industries like combustion engines, simple consumer electronics (telephones, radio, the "telegraphnet") or basic chemicals, because the faster and the greater the world gets, the more it will buy from California and sustain and increase the Californian levels of wealth. The USS Roosevel's tour fits perfectly for this international commercial connection mission.
Flectarn
Uphold Kali Akuno Thought
- Location
- Queen City of the Ohio
At the same time, it's plausible that the little germanies look at the bombed out ruins and foreign occupations in their future and decide unification isn't such a great idea
It sounded to me that France's ambassador was the only one that actively wanted to strangle Germany in the cradle. Britain's ambassador seemed more interested in making an alliance with Russia and Germany and getting on the winning side that way.
Shaithan
Re-class is happiest class
- Location
- The worst part of Germany
Very unlikely. They generally were aware that France would sooner or later get ambitions again. Especially this shortly after Napoleon.
Because one thing is clear, if a somewhat comprehensive timeline makes its ways into the German Confederation, things will turn ugly. Napoleon III is already on the throne, I think, and his desire to carve off parts of Germany is documented. Plus there being no guarantee that France will stop at the Rhine. Let's not forget that both Napoleons were expansionist at the expense of Germans.
Plus, the desire for a unified nation is there and if it isn't Prussia that is in charge, it's going to be Austria.
nullptr
Mostly Harmless
- Location
- The 906
Not to mention that Califorrnia has SpaceX and a launch facility. Musk is going to put the first man in (this new) history into orbit. Not to mention communication and spy satellites to keep an eye on all the jealous neighbors.
JuliusClonkus
Scatterbrained Speculator
- Location
- Federal Reichspublic of Karlsland
I think there's a very real risk of Bismarck threatening to chuck himself out the window when he realizes that yes, a certain monarch with a crippled arm was indeed going to destroy every carefully set treaty over his desire to get more colonies in functionally worthless areas and have an oversized navy to piss off the British with.
Of course it'd be France however who just tries to justify further expansion into Germany using the uptime knowledge.
Britain is pragmatic as usual, and Russia is...surprisingly on point with what their big problems will be. Although I'd still advocate for reforms because tsarist Russia was a shitshow and only marginally better than...what followed.
Of course it'd be France however who just tries to justify further expansion into Germany using the uptime knowledge.
Britain is pragmatic as usual, and Russia is...surprisingly on point with what their big problems will be. Although I'd still advocate for reforms because tsarist Russia was a shitshow and only marginally better than...what followed.
Jamie Roberts
Hávamál 127
- Location
- N/A
- Pronouns
- she/her
Yeah, no. The twentieth century would be case in point for why pan-germanism was catching on in this time period. Their attitude was essentially; "We (the Germans) can't trust foreign nations (especially France) to treat us justly on their own, so we must force them to. And the only way we can do that is together. We shall either stand together as one, or die divided." They would look at the bombed-out ruins that were made of Germany several times in the twentieth century, and they would think "If that is what those asshole-Frenchmen and their allies do when we're united, just imagine how much worse it would have been if we hadn't been!"
News of the next hundred and fifty years will do nothing to slacken desire for German unification, because it does nothing but underline the reasons the Germans believed it to be necessary.
Cloak&Dagger
Definitely Insane
I wonder what Austria-Hungary would think of all this.
First rate nation to second rate backwater to rump state eaten by the Prussians.
Hungary on it's own lost a HELL of a lot of land.
First rate nation to second rate backwater to rump state eaten by the Prussians.
Hungary on it's own lost a HELL of a lot of land.
Pretty much accurate. At this point other than the Raj the main unifying presence in India, as used by some of the mutineers was the old Mughal dynasty which is likely to be even more unpopular and is unlikely, even if it became tolerant again to install the reforms and modernisations that the Raj did.
Indian will definitely because independent, at some stage. Its too big to hold once ideas of national identity develop, which they are almost certain to. Plus any Briton with any intelligence wouldn't oppose that as it would be bloody disastrous denying it. However would probably take at least a generation or two to develop the necessary civilian bureaucracy, infrastructure and sense of identity. Doing something rash now is likely to end up with an Indian more like parts of Africa than OTL independent India. Plus you would still have the problem of the significant Muslim minority, some of whom might still desire domination. Ghandi, for all his flaws was a godsend for India in minimising the chaos and disruption of independent OTL we would need some leaders with a lot of foresight if they desire [and seriously hope to obtain] anything more than a 18-19thC monarchical or autocratic state.
I'm rather disappointed with Arthur. Hopefully someone with more sense will have more weight in London. Allying to Czarist Russia to seek to prevent changes is going to be largely pointless. What you need to do is ride the wave of changes that will be coming and try and make sure they work in your favour - not necessarily in terms of massive territorial expansion either. Disraeli might end up on the side-line but I would say Gladstone's chances are even grimmer as he was one of the drivers of the laissez faire and free trade combination that was a major factor in Britain's decline. With the new challenge of California this is likely to die quickly as Britain is no longer the runaway industrial top dog. Hopefully that Keynes book and others will direct towards serious social reform and better educational and living standards, which could be the big changes.
I would also also that the Pacific is not simply a Californian state. In the short term they are likely to be able to do pretty much anything they want there but the key is to avoid clashing with them on issues that leads to serious conflict. Which for Britain shouldn't be too difficult. It will continue to have political and economic interests in the region and while some are likely to cause problems, thinking of the opium trade and whaling as obvious ones, I can't see California going on a major conquest spree so serious, especially military, conflict being avoidable. There are areas, such as continued suppressing of the slave trade and slavery, especially in Africa and the ME where the two can work together and where an agreement would be in California's interest as Britain can do a lot of the donkey work and has people and bases for such operations.
A bit dubious about the proposed link up with the Mormon's as that has a number of potential cans of worms to open. Have to see how that develops.
Many of the Prussians leadership yes but some of the other states? Is the risk of continued conflict and defeat worth uniting under Prussian leadership - which is the only alternative other than a Vienna looking at its massive non-German territories. Don't forget that in 1866 the Prussians fought most of Germany and areas such as Hanover were occupied and annexed by force. Also there was a good deal of unrest in the Rhineland about Prussian militarism and aristocratic domination. The current 1851 Germans are by no means committed to a unified Germany, especially if its even more certain to prompt a reaction from its fearful neighbours. Some continuation of the current loose federation, with a little more national identity but Bismarck's blood and steel is likely to be a lot less popular, both inside and outside Germany.
What you might end up with is Prussia facing a defeat at some point which leads to a German state without Austria, still looking largely towards its eastern empire and without the eastern Prussian core territories, which is markedly more diverse, liberal and business orientated. Of course if the French are stupid enough to only look at a military option and especially if other powers agree with them. However similarly if the bulk [or decisive powerful groups ] of Germany decides "we must follow the militaristic route we followed in the Californian future, but simply be more successful" they are likely to bring the same disasters onto them. Although possibly with less destruction overall as just about everybody else will be looking out for danger signs.
Unification? Lots of reasons to go for it. Unification dominated by Prussia? I can see them getting leery and either taking their chances with Wien or the smaller states pulling together on their own.
- Location
- Canada
Um, guys?
There's at LEAST three pretty obvious power blocs in Germany:
Hanover
Prussia
Bavaria
Hanover could pull most of the coast behind it and push down between the two regions of Prussia, Bavaria could unite the southern powers and push up so that it meets Hanover with a trade connection. Prussia, due to being the largest and most powerful, would just have to deal with transit rights between the western territory and the east. It would be counterbalanced by the other two.
There's at LEAST three pretty obvious power blocs in Germany:
Hanover
Prussia
Bavaria
Hanover could pull most of the coast behind it and push down between the two regions of Prussia, Bavaria could unite the southern powers and push up so that it meets Hanover with a trade connection. Prussia, due to being the largest and most powerful, would just have to deal with transit rights between the western territory and the east. It would be counterbalanced by the other two.
Shaithan
Re-class is happiest class
- Location
- The worst part of Germany
There you are wrong. Within the confederation, it's basically a constant struggle between Austria and Prussia as to who leads. Neither one of which will let the smaller states continue as independents. Even if they tried to band together, without either of the big neighbors helping them, they're toast.
And, as pointed out already, French ambitions are documented and it is quite unlikely that they'd settle for the Rhine as the border. There's the Ruhr industrial area right at the Rhine, Hamburg isn't that far, either.
Also, unless they're forced to at gunpoint, the Prussians are never going to relinquish their hold on their parts of Poland. Hell, Russia won't agree to that, as won't Austria.
I mean, who is going to attack them to force the issue? France? Russia won't fight a war for the liberation of the Poles, same as Austria.
Yeah, no. Both Hanover and Bavaria couldn't hope to match Prussia together, much less on their own.
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- Location
- Earth
The update mentioned Siemens was part of the mission in the Roosevelt, I wonder how the Germans will react to it.
Also, to learn that in the future Germany is an important industrial center must be intriguing to them.
Also the creation of the EU and its role must be an interesting subject, as will the fall of colonialism.
Let us hope that the worst excesses of colonialism can be mitigated, and that they realize in the long term developing the colonies is more beneficial.
Also, to learn that in the future Germany is an important industrial center must be intriguing to them.
Also the creation of the EU and its role must be an interesting subject, as will the fall of colonialism.
Let us hope that the worst excesses of colonialism can be mitigated, and that they realize in the long term developing the colonies is more beneficial.
- Location
- Canada
I suspect if Hanover takes over everything non-Prussian north of Frankfurt (west of SWE until you get to Prussia, after which every non-Prussian bit north of that except Holstein (and Denmark, etc. obviously), it would control almost all maritime trade. If Bavaria (Bayern in map) takes everything else within Deutschland then the two put together should be able to stand up to Prussia.
If only the Ruhr had been awarded to Hanover instead (though the Personal Union with Britain would make Britain seem far too powerful) this would be a very even match. As is, the two together can still withstand Prussia, or stand up to Austria for that matter.
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- Location
- The Old Dominion
From what I've gathered Baden, Württemberg, Hessen-Darmstadt and Bavaria until the Franco-Prussian war were rather firmly in the camp along with Austria of the various south German states politically opposed to Prussia and Hanover from what I gathered had a lot of their prosperity dependent on Prussia the point that opposing Prussian interests would hurt them a lot economically during these time period. Somehow I don't see Bavaria moving against Austria or Hanover trying to undermine Prussia without given getting into the catholic protestant divides among the German states.
- Location
- Canada
So North Germany vs South Germany?
Not a great matchup unless the South is noticeably larger, as the North gets sea access for trade. So... the Bavaria and Hanover I posited two posts up would be large enough to not be too junior in alliance to Austria and Prussia (and make no huge German power that would alarm everyone else), but make it so the total North German area is somewhat smaller than South German and thus an even match that outsiders won't really have a cause to complain about too much.
Shaithan
Re-class is happiest class
- Location
- The worst part of Germany
And how does Hanover get the manpower to do that? Or Bavaria for that matter? How does it do that? By a war of expansion? Great job, now states that were wavering will default to Prussia and Hanover gets crushed. Because if the question is who to follow? Prussia is currently sitting at somewhere around 13 million people. Excluding Austria, Prussia accounts for about 40% of the population of the German Confederation.
Seriously, unless France gets stuck in deep in trying to destroy Germany, it's bound to happen. And if France does attack? Suddenly having Prussia smacking down the uppity Frenchmen sounds great.
Remember, Napoleon isn't forgotten, Napoleon III wants to gobble up parts of German lands as natural French territories.
- Location
- Canada
Perhaps Hanover could lead a Northwest German Confederation that's wary of potential Prussian aggression? Doing business and having close ties is good and all, but direct annexation to (or even worse conquest by) the proportionally much larger Prussia means far less influence on where you'll be led than de facto aligning with Hanover (which is smaller and thus less dominant compared to the smaller states joining up).
The southern German states aligning with Bavaria instead of Austria could be under similar reasoning.
So...
Northwest German Confederation led by Hanover, allied with Prussia.
VERSUS
Southwest German Confederation led by Bavaria (Baden on map), allied with Austria.
This would de facto be North Germany vs South Germany.
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