Baughn
Healing-type writer
- Location
- Dublin
Neither are the videos, I suspect.
A Golden Island To The West — California ISOT from 2018 to 1850
- Thread starter Instant Sunrise
- Start date
- Original 19th Century Supernatural
- Location
- NY
- Pronouns
- Ve/Ver/Vis
Unfortunately, Google's datacenters are all located outside of California; there'll probably be large fractions of Google's data repositories within the boundary (due to various engineering operations/experiments), but most of it will be lost.
On the other hand, the Internet Archive maintains its datacenters in the Bay Area, so we'll at least have all the tribute sites to Pokemon that were on geocities.
On the other hand, the Internet Archive maintains its datacenters in the Bay Area, so we'll at least have all the tribute sites to Pokemon that were on geocities.
Baughn
Healing-type writer
- Location
- Dublin
Practically everything runs in the datacenters. Even when you're experimenting, you're running your experiments in the datacenters. Very little would practically fit on a single computer, so that's the way it has to be anyway.
Which is to say, Google is toast. So's Youtube, which is after all part of Google.
AYC
Make blunts not bombs
- Location
- California
Also, I notice that the status of LGBT people in California has not been mentioned. Marriage between "sodomites" and the general tolerance towards gay people will be one of the hardest things for downtimers to wrap their heads around, even with scientific evidence.
ExNihilo
SPACE!
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Has been mentioned a little bit, if informally? There was the sequence with the Gay bar and the down timers.
AYC
Make blunts not bombs
- Location
- California
Ahh yeah, fair enough. I was more thinking about the Fremonts' reactions to the idea.
- Location
- California
While the tech discussion is... interesting, on some levels, I'm more interested in using the tech, whether it's limitations of rare earth metals, water, or modern crops, to highlight character and personal interactions. I mean, we can talk about Youtube's archive until the cows come home, but ultimately making a good story and universe comes down to writing about people bumping into people, while mentioning uberplausibility tech can add to the verisimilitude of the story, idealizing the setting (Yay Euro!Socialist!Commiefornia) or focusing solely on tech at the expense of people who feel like people, can sink a promising idea.
- Location
- Canada
It is not that hard to get across to someone with no real views on the issue due to lack of exposure. Use the Austrian Army Head of Intelligence affair from IIRC 1913 as an example. Convince them that persecution is going to just mean a crapload of slander of career-focused/high-achieving men by those jealous of them, and potential blackmail or even FALSE, MANUFACTURED blackmail that could threaten corporate or national security, or sabotage a good man's career, and it should be pretty easy to convince them to "let it be" (everyone generally overestimates their own competence, and so if you get them to believe they might be targeted...).
And of course, there's the tack of "There are jittery men who seem to be terrified that every man they walk past on the street could be a homosexual in disguise and are going to jump out at them or something. It seems being confident enough in their own manly bearing and ability to fight back is beyond them."
In other words, homophobes can be labelled to the locals by the translocated as people who just want targets to bully, shooting-self-in-foot morons, and cowards terrified of their own shadows.
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LHB
Economics don't work like that!
- Location
- Glasgow, UK originally from California
Water and modern crops are going to be much bigger problems than rare earth minerals as there are plentiful supplies in California as-is and plenty more that can be had with an aggressive recycling program. The name is a bit of a misnomer as it refers to that said minerals only occur in trace amounts, not that they're actually that rare. The reason rare earth minerals are mostly imported, in the present day, has less to do with lack of supply and more to do with that it's much cheaper to do it in China where health, safety, labor and environmental regulations are virtually nonexistent.
That said the human element is something that could do with being focused on so far and the author's done a good job of that IMO. Those human interactions are going to be influenced by the material conditions you've mentioned, with one really big one being that a lot of the raw data for scientific research conducted as recently as the 1990s is already lost forever and post-ISOT will be totally irrecoverable. I also would, like you've mentioned earlier, think it's worth touching on the far right elements who came back in time with California and have access to modern weaponry including fun stuff like plastic explosives. I could see them actively trying to make things worse just as the rest of California is trying to stabilize conditions or make them better, complicating the situation and souring many who already are suspicious of California to begin with.
always_confused
Perpetually unwanted
- Location
- SEA
There was an early-mid update about a far-right militia sort and his desire to arm the south, wasn't there? Could be worth expanding on.
LHB
Economics don't work like that!
- Location
- Glasgow, UK originally from California
I'd be really worried about them doing something really nasty like picking up a history book on the abolitionist movement and using the famous names like a checklist.
- Location
- Canada
Lots of martyrs for a cause that people KNOW will win?
That's how you make fanatics
How many people like that are there though? This is a time period when most people took their religion seriously, and it seems like most of them would have heard that homosexuality is a sin at some point. Telling them to worry about false accusations is likely to be taken in the same way that people worrying about false rape accusations are today.
- Location
- Canada
In this time period most of the more aggressive preachers are harping on about care for the poor and love for your fellow humans... and slavery.
It's easy for minor differences to be overlooked (see the many Books i.e. versions in the Bible on Jesus's adventure) when the broad strokes are agreeable.
But how much of that is that they don't care, and how much is just that it's undisputed?
- Location
- Canada
If you see this thing that you don't really think about and don't see in life bundled in with a ton of other things you want, and you don't think it will affect you, the amount of effort you take to deal with it is... generally not that much.
For example, seeing a small boulder on a beach, while you are planning to play elsewhere on the beach. Are you going to boycott the beach due to one random boulder left on it? Sure, you'll move the boulder if you absolutely need that area for say beach volleyball or something, but otherwise you'll probably just leave it be.
Of course there'll be those that howl about how it makes the beach look "imperfect", but will they be a majority?
Some Scottish priests had opinions on the invention of the rotary fan, that making wind was encroaching on God's domain. Apparently, none of them ever tried to blow out a candle (or fart, no wonder they were so stuffy) because they were making wind... but guess how much everyone else cared about that when it was so damned convenient to make wind?
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The objections to the rotary fan was just something they came up with, not something longstanding that predated most schisms, in an environment where most people had accepted the argument from Francis Bacon that God gave Man reason so that he could manipulate the world. Of course it was ignored. That's very different from ignoring widespread practice of a major sin!
I think you're really failing to empathize with what it's like to consider homosexuality a sin. Imagine a highly advanced futuristic society that has clinical immortality and all the other wonders of the future... and raping children is completely socially acceptable. Are you really going to get worked up about this thing you don't really think about and don't see much, that won't affect you at all (I'm assuming you're an adult)? Probably! This is not a minor imperfection, even though you could mostly ignore it even if you lived there, even though it would be really convenient to ignore it.
I don't know if the average stance on homosexuality in 1850s USA was quite that extreme, but it's probably closer to that then to the modern liberal perspective.
- Location
- Canada
I would like to remind you that the Age of Consent in Delaware was 7 years of age until (I heard) the 1960s (but definitely in the 19th century).
Given the continual postphonement of adulthood as human life expectancy grows, I find your claim EXCEEDINGLY unlikely. In fact I've recently gotten into debates on QQ over how a certain NSFW CYOA system's treatment of children and some claims by readers on incest are evolutionarily IMPOSSIBLE. (as in I'm mathematically demonstrating that selection against incest would have shown up basically instantly in geologic/evolutionary time after sexual reproduction showed up)
There are some base tenets you have to use for thing that are "possible" or "not possible" for a society to evolve.
Consent is basically NUMERO UNO, for the reason of "they might try to force ME? FUCK THAT."
Your example has a fundamental power imbalance and lack of consent. Therefore, it does not pass this basic litmus test of plausibility (also enough victims would grow up to murder their attackers that it would be rapidly selected against, and/or those who allow their children to become victims would be selected against by having fewer offspring survive and/or breed).
Two adult males or two adult females who are in accord on cohabitation and whatever else? Well, "Boston Marriages" is a term coined later, but it is for a phenomenon that was already shrugged off (though mainly in England, America took a bit longer to catch up on "let them be" laissez-faire)! Boston marriage - Wikipedia
I have proven that de facto open (because PDAs of the time were very minimal) homosexuality was very often shrugged off in the 1700s and 1800s.
There's a reason over on QQ I'm HOWLING about a claim of "oh contract law is different here" by a certain author, because any legal system, however megacorp-dominated, where kidnapping a CEO, putting a planet-killer to his less-than-planetary-durability head, and forcing him to sign over the company is not valid (i.e. any legal system whatsoever) would mean the "signed after kidnapping" of that story's plot would not fly.
There are "possible" societal developments, and "impossible" ones, much like the evolutionary space for possible conch shell traits (a famous question on why the whole space of possible characteristic combinations wasn't occupied). Most are unviable and not seen in nature... for GOOD REASON (i.e. MATH or applied math aka PHYSICS).
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You see that shock, horror, and anger at the very idea? That desperation to believe that it could never happen, to the extent of being unwilling to even assume the hypothesis? That's what some people feel every day, looking at modern California. Some people in the present feel this way, except that time has inevitably dulled the strength of their emotions. Not everyone in 1850s will feel that strongly about it, but even a much weaker reaction will cause uptimer's major issues.
As for Boston marriage, quoting from that very article:
There have always been homosexual relationships, but just because two women are openly living together doesn't mean they were openly in a sexual relationship, or that being "open" would extend past a carefully curated sympathetic group. Also, this seems to only refer to women, whereas prohibitions on homosexuality were more frequently imposed on men:
Article: The Catholic church generally viewed all sexual expression as being sinful whereas protestants thought that sex and sexuality were acceptable when confined to marriage. However, neither believed that what we know called homosexual sex and sexuality was permissible and sodomy was a capital offense throughout the European colonies in north America. While executions rare with only 6 men being killed for sodomy throughout the European colonies of North America there were other punishments such as banishment, whipping, and branding.
An interesting aspect of punishments for homosexual activity, and one that continued for a couple of centuries, was that men were much more likely to be punished for sex with someone of the same gender. English colonists generally thought of sex between two women as being the result of "hermaphroditism" or in modern terms being intersex. Only New Haven specifically made sex between women against the law. However, the only two women brought before New England Colonial courts for same sex sex was for lewd behavior. Also Puritan religious leaders said male-male sex and female-female sex were equally sinful.
BTW, at this point China still has generally accepted homosexuality, and it prompted things like this:
Someone will be writing things like that about California, probably while accusing them of consorting with the devil. (Did you know they're atheists as well? They are not ignorant, they knew about the Lord Jesus Christ and rejected him!)
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- Location
- Canada
You seem to be trying to get me in trouble on SV for discussing how most of the Cybran Nation as far as I can think started (liberated "self-maintaining dolls" i.e. customized tank-born, of varying stable-appearance ages, which most in the UEF don't mind because they are tank-born cyborgs... but even then there's a stigma with overly young appearances due to the very basic self-interest of juvenile-predator avoidance by the general public, despite me ascribing to them full post-scarcity and effective immortality in as societal features).
I do not find this amusing in the least.
Conceiving of a society where everyone minds their own business more--e.g. California--is easy. Conceiving of a society where people are actively failing to address active and direct threats to their own health, interests, investments, etc. is rather more difficult (religion works for this, see Catholic pedophile priests getting away with it for centuries for example).
Imagine a society with full futuristic trappings, immortality, etc... where rich/powerful/whatever people burning/destroying/etc. all their assets to go to being penniless just so they can climb again is perfectly normal and considered a hobby. You will absolutely find that at the very top of the power pyramid there are a group of people who don't participate in the Sisyphean culture they encourage one way or another.
Your... insistence... on your example, which fails the basic litmus test of self-interest from basic physical harm, an avoidance that evolved as soon as behaviour in general did, is... very questionable. I advise you STOP.
And for China, good for them! The problem is that it's the same Arrogance of Men mixture of "Women for children, Men for fun" as ancient Greece's machismo, which just makes women's place even worse in society. (You can probably tell that I loathe machismo)
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My example wasn't supposed to be plausible, it was supposed to induce the same emotional reaction in a modern liberal that universal acceptance of homosexuality would induce in an 1850s christian. I'm not trying to get you into trouble arguing about it's plausibility, I'm trying to show you what it's like for a downtimer to encounter modern California, and counteract the tendency for people to treat the whole world like they're just confused western liberals.
The reason it seems to you like getting worked up about homosexuality in California would be counter to their interests is because you don't believe homosexuality is a sin. But they do. Really. It's not a trick, or a clever deception by the elite to keep the common man down, there are people who truly believe in their sect of Christianity all the way to the top, in saving people's souls through the word of our Lord and Savior, and, yes, that homosexuality is a sin that any good society would ban. These people are not impossible to convince, but you can't expect to just bribe them any more then someone could bribe you to accept a heinous crime.
As for China, the link I gave has textual evidence of serious homosexual romance, between both men and women. They probably wouldn't have conceived of it the same way we do today, but nor do they conceive of it the same way Athenians would have. That's not really the point though, I was bringing it up for the European reaction i.e. that it was a "detestable and unnatural act".
- Location
- Canada
If it means people (including "me and mine") get to not die of polio, smallpox, cholera, etc. then you will find that writing off "saving the souls" of a portion of the populace is a "meh" thing for a very large portion of the population. It is not for nothing that "there are none so deaf as those who would not hear" or "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink" or an equivalent exist in every culture ever.
I predict that a supermajority of the populace will shrug and look the other way, with a small minority (not more than 25%) being buttmad (maybe 35% if we count those in denial or trying to cover up their own indiscretions, only if Californian radicals of various flavours piss off enough people in different ways might it be a close minority). There might be some LE GASP-ing but people will sit down, shut up and do business because if you don't get in on tech, your rivals will.
Convincing people that "in the future, people nearly instantly call the police and let them do the work, instead of trying to stop the robber themselves, if they see a lady being pickpocketed" i.e. people pay attention to their own interests and risks to self more in the future is a great deal easier than convincing them that "in the future, people can randomly kill each other in the streets" which fails the basic litmus test of "self-interest". This litmus test of fictional acceptability and future-fictional plausibility, is very much Older Than Jesus, so... with the expansions of literacy a lot of people (and story-telling before that) are going to have some hazy idea of said basic tests. California generally passes the litmus test of plausibility.
...And we shall note that the Europeans still bought so much stuff from China (which was too arrogant to notice when the Europeans passed them in certain fields) they had to use Opium for trade balancing (and to not implode the Chinese economy with inflation, which wouldn't be good for business) and thus had to fight the Opium Wars. If the sinners make stuff that's sufficiently useful, people shrug it off and do business.
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Chapter 30
Instant Sunrise
Queen Shit of Liesville
- Location
- Los Angeles
- Pronouns
- her/she
USS Theodore Roosevelt – North Island NAS - May 20th, 1851
The Teddy Roosevelt was preparing for an unusual mission. A mission for Californians to show off to the world the kind of advancements that had happened in the last 178 years. To that extent, most of the hangar deck on the Roosevelt had been converted into an impromptu floating convention center, with various Californian companies purchasing booth space. Other spaces had been converted into theaters that would show movies and documentaries covering aspects of uptime culture. California was in the process of turning itself around into a global superpower in their own right, and the Roosevelt's world tour was going to be their debut into the global stage. On the flight deck, a handful of planes would stay around to show off the capabilities of powered flight and to allow quick transportation on and off the ship.
The departure date was a few months away, but that still gave the crew of the Roosevelt a long list of things to get done to get the ship ready for the exhibitors to load in and get setup once the ship was underway. So far the booth spaces had filled up with a who's who of California, with the newly merged California Semiconductor showing off their computers, Cisco showing off modern networking that made the old telegraph lines seem hopeless antiquated, Tesla, BYD, Siemens had bought island booths to show off electric cars, busses and locomotives, the California High Speed Rail Authority had a booth next to the Siemens booth showing their plans for the San Francisco to Los Angeles railroad, and a transcontinental link to Salt Lake City. The California Science Center had bought an island booth showing off several exhibits on the advances of science, and the science behind smog.
California High Speed Rail Authority – Sacramento
Brian Kelly would likely never admit it out loud, but The Event was an enormous lifeline for this project. The High Speed Rail Project, ever since it was approved by the voters, had been hit with one attempt after another to delay, defund, and derail the project. Despite construction already having started in the central valley, the well-funded opposition to the rail project had been using it as a political whipping post for the past decade.
But the event changed all that. Union Pacific couldn't afford to keep many of their now-truncated branch lines, including the original transcontinental railroad that had connected San Francisco with Sacramento, a rail line that now terminated in Truckee.
Brian Kelly had seen an opportunity. He had gotten a message out to the downtime governor of the Utah Territory about building a railroad to Salt Lake City, and Brigham Young had been more than willing to grant them the land that the old transcontinental railroad had used to cross the Great Basin in order to reach Salt Lake City. It had seemed that a bit of uptime information regarding the airline industry had reached Young and he had made it his goal to turn Salt Lake City into the great transportation hub of the West, calling it the holy duty of every Mormon to support this project so that people coming to California would have to pass through Salt Lake City and hear the good word. It was one of the more unique reasons to support the project, and the funding that going to be brought in from the land sales would likely be able to finance the San Francisco to Los Angeles line. The mineral rights for the Comstock Lode deposits that the land grand area covered would be enough to pay for the Initial Operating Segment.
Gleeson Library Reading Room, University of San Francisco – February 5, 1852
Arthur rubbed the bridge of his nose and put down his book. The Rise and Fall of the British Empire, this trip to San Francisco had answered so many questions and yielded so many more. How... HOW? The supremacy of the British Empire didn't fall to some great war or calamity of the seas but simple economics. An Empire that fell much like the Romans, too unwieldy too unwilling to adapt and surpassed by others. He looked over at his notebook filled with notes of events for his superiors, books to purchase, and other snippets. Sepoy Rebellion, Opium Wars, the Berlin Conference, the Belle Epoch... the Great War... The Great Depression... the Second Great War... the Cold War... and American Supremacy. The whole of the British Empire lasted barely a century. He looked opposite the reading room table to his French colleague. To say nothing of his other colleague who occasionally swore in Russian while perusing the future that once was to be. Jacques was reading a book title Paris 1919, scoffing occasionally to himself. It was an odd circumstance that brought them all together, of course the official envoys were meeting with their "uptime counterparts" but that left the work to the researchers and staffers brought along like Arthur. Ignoring the oddity of using rainbow money to get to a proper library they each found their way to the University of San Francisco's Rare book room to conduct their research. Jacques had attempted to go to the San Francisco Public Library but attracted too many gawkers and took a librarians invitation for the much quieter USF. Victor went straight to the Russian consulate but refused to believe their truth of events, and sought independent confirmation. Arthur... well sad to say he went to a bookstore called City Lights but was cited by a police officer for relieving himself in an alley, apparently ALL people in this new San Francisco used toilets in privacy. Jacques closed his book, "I find myself looking at this new history with an interesting perspective Mr. McDougall. A future to be avoided to be certain."
"What are your thoughts?" Arthur asked, he hardly trusted the French, his father fought with Wellington at Waterloo.
Jacques smiled, "The great evil of the 20th century is plain to see. It is a United Germany." he said holding up a hardbound book embossed with an image of Otto von Bismarck. "World War I was started by them, and their government caused the second one"
Arthur scoffed, "Herr Hitler I must remind you was an Austrian."
Jacques smiled, "All the more reason. The Danish conflict is sowing the seeds of what is to come. German must not unite."
Arthur frowned, "Stalling will only work for so long. Eager to avoid your fate in another Franco-Prussian War?"
"Eager to see your sovereign's house fall again?" he riposted.
Viktor threw his heavy tome across the room, his thick Russian accent yelled, "It is not Germany, Hitler, or your wounded national pride. The true threat is Communism." pointing at Arthur, "Your nation better be planning to make that Marx and Engels disappear!"
Arthur grimaced, "I'm afraid it's too late for either if the gossip I heard is true." standing up, "Gentlemen, it is plain to see that before us in this room," he said gesturing to reading room with several piles of books, "That we have been given a divine opportunity. To learn from the future, to repair our present. I've already heard my superiors mention plans for an audit of the East India Company to avoid the disaster in India."
Jacques scoffed, "If you think you will outplay us again you are wrong monsieur."
Viktor scoffed, "Oh please both of you invaded us to stop this communism before. We can kill it in it's crib, NOW.""
Arthur was more uncertain, He saw the wave of revolutions in 1848. He had seen the proof that it wasn't an isolated incident but a wave. A wave that would not end at Europe but over the next century take over the globe. Bloody Hell, Britain would even nearly lose Scotland by 2018. As much as he hated saying it, the future was coming whether they liked it or not.
"Men in all our countries we tried and failed to stop progress, perhaps it is best if we adjust to create the least unfavorable history for us, rather then letting our nations be consigned to a future of irrelevance, cowardice, and corruption."
Jacques scoffed again, "France does not surrender."
Viktor was silent, before saying, "This is not going to be popular in Moscow"
Arthur held up his hands, "Most of our leaders debate the course of action without knowing the future." before tossing a book to Viktor, The Russian Revolution by Oxford University Press. "We now know the future, and we can work together to prevent it." Looking to Jacques, "Or we can ignore it."
Jacques gathered his book purchases, "Germany must be destroyed in the crib!" and slammed the door leaving both Viktor and Arthur alone,
"What do you propose."
Arthur smiled, "Politics is the Art of the Impossible, the International order after the council of Vienna must change. California will dominate the Pacific, and we better adjust... My government might be willing to take Alaska off your hands should your social changes cause a need for capital."
Viktor laughed, "Pax Brittania once again?"
"Is it better to be a partner in international order in Pax Brittania then a pariah in Pax Californica? With Germany on our side... what can't we do?"
Both of them looked around the reading room, "Tell me your proposal and I could advocate it in Moscow."
Arthur smiled, "While taking credit for it?"
Viktor laughed, "Of course. Just like I doubt you will mention me to your Foreign and Colonial Offices." and the two proceeded to outline their plans. Although it would not be known for a decade the future of Russia and Great Britain was set by that meeting. Their purchases of Keynes and Friedman Economic texts, and multiple histories would yield considerable political capital back home, it would also mean the death of many "upcoming" political leaders. No one could trust a man whose future was mapped out. Benjamin Disraeli would find himself sidelined in Parliament constantly, and forced to concede leadership to others, harangued by the legacy of a man who never would be. Friedrich Wilhelm Nikolaus Karl of House Hohenzollern would be encouraged to stop smoking entirely.
Of course a darker history was also established that day but Arthur and Viktor would curse it once they would finally hear of it. Soon after they left the reading room two men entered where the downtimers had just left, "All right Michael, why did you do this little stunt?" stated Scott Nichols, the Governor of California's Deputy Chief of Staff for Foreign Affairs. Michael Reynolds, a professor of history and international politics at the University of San Francisco bent down to pick up the book Viktor had thrown. Holding it up to Scott he ripped open the hard cover book revealing a recording device, "History won't wait for us. Our knowledge of the future gives us insight but the future isn't written in stone."
Scott looked around at the reading room, the ceiling tiles alone contained plastic domes and microphones that no downtimer would think twice about yet, "I figured as much. But you pulled a lot of strings to get me here to show me a stunt? The governor and Pelosi are meeting with the downtime envoys at the St. Francis and I should be there."
Michael smiled, "California will become a geopolitical actor by our mere presence. The Empires of Europe are going through their own geopolitical calculus and they will come to the same conclusion I have. They lost the Pacific because of our mere presence. The combined navies of Europe can't fight a carrier group, and they know it now. If you want to get the trade agreements California needs, we need to get operations going overseas."
Scott looked up from the book, "Is this the conversation I think we are having? You want to make the CIA?"
Michael shrugged, "Who else you got? Feinstein is stuck in DC, and her Intelligence experience is useless now."
Scott paced in front of the whiteboard Viktor and Arthur used and erased, and up at the little black dome in the ceiling that recorded their whole little division of the globe. "If... if… I get the governor to sign off on this. Let's run down your pertinent experience."
Michael smiled, "Former Deputy Director of the CIA for East Asian Analysis. I was terminated in 2017 for calling the President an idiot, big surprise. Took a job at out alma mater and was hoping to get a better job down in Silicon Valley when The Event happened."
Scott nodded, "You want to be head of the Californian Intelligence Agency?"
Michael scoffed, "No. This... if we do it at all we need a fresh start, we need to combine all the uptime assets we have in one place, with a unified agenda. I think we can do that. We only got fragments of the CIA and NSA left. Probably only a few duty officers right?"
Scott nonchalantly responded, "I can't confirm or deny that."
Michael laughed, "I had Yankee White Security Clearance. I'd pass the clearance for Grizzly Red easy."
"Let's not put the cart ahead of the horse." stated Scott, "Why appeal to me? You were already on Pelosi's and Feinstein's short list for the job of Uptime Director of National Intelligence." Pelosi's remnant Federal Government was bizarre in many ways and it's why it wasn't going to last probably if the games in Washington went how many thought they were in Sacramento
"Because I don't want that job. I want to coordinate with all available uptime intelligence operations." Michael said as he placed some of the discarded books on the cart to be reshelved. "Including the uptime foreign ones."
Scott chortled "You are nuts."
Michael shrugged, "No I'm not. China's consulate was likely the go between how many IP operations to China, same with Japan. Russia's been operating in California since the Cold War. Where are these people supposed to go? The People's Republic of China doesn't exist yet, and won't for a century if then. Japantown alone probably has a higher GDP than Japan itself right now."
Scott shook his head, "Too many conflicting loyalties"
"Actually they all have the same loyalty, whether they like it or not. Uptimer California. That's their only home now, what's a country where not even their great grandparents are born yet?"
Scott considered it, "I'll talk with Gavin about it, and get back to you. It won't be an easy sell. You owe me."
Michael nodded, "History is on the move, Captain. Those who cannot keep up will be left behind, to watch from a distance. And those who stand in our way, they will not watch at all."
Scott nodded and began to walk away but paused, "Did you just quote the Extended Star Wars Universe at me?"
Michael merely laughed.
———
The latter section of this update was written by Firebringer2077 from the Discord.
The Teddy Roosevelt was preparing for an unusual mission. A mission for Californians to show off to the world the kind of advancements that had happened in the last 178 years. To that extent, most of the hangar deck on the Roosevelt had been converted into an impromptu floating convention center, with various Californian companies purchasing booth space. Other spaces had been converted into theaters that would show movies and documentaries covering aspects of uptime culture. California was in the process of turning itself around into a global superpower in their own right, and the Roosevelt's world tour was going to be their debut into the global stage. On the flight deck, a handful of planes would stay around to show off the capabilities of powered flight and to allow quick transportation on and off the ship.
The departure date was a few months away, but that still gave the crew of the Roosevelt a long list of things to get done to get the ship ready for the exhibitors to load in and get setup once the ship was underway. So far the booth spaces had filled up with a who's who of California, with the newly merged California Semiconductor showing off their computers, Cisco showing off modern networking that made the old telegraph lines seem hopeless antiquated, Tesla, BYD, Siemens had bought island booths to show off electric cars, busses and locomotives, the California High Speed Rail Authority had a booth next to the Siemens booth showing their plans for the San Francisco to Los Angeles railroad, and a transcontinental link to Salt Lake City. The California Science Center had bought an island booth showing off several exhibits on the advances of science, and the science behind smog.
California High Speed Rail Authority – Sacramento
Brian Kelly would likely never admit it out loud, but The Event was an enormous lifeline for this project. The High Speed Rail Project, ever since it was approved by the voters, had been hit with one attempt after another to delay, defund, and derail the project. Despite construction already having started in the central valley, the well-funded opposition to the rail project had been using it as a political whipping post for the past decade.
But the event changed all that. Union Pacific couldn't afford to keep many of their now-truncated branch lines, including the original transcontinental railroad that had connected San Francisco with Sacramento, a rail line that now terminated in Truckee.
Brian Kelly had seen an opportunity. He had gotten a message out to the downtime governor of the Utah Territory about building a railroad to Salt Lake City, and Brigham Young had been more than willing to grant them the land that the old transcontinental railroad had used to cross the Great Basin in order to reach Salt Lake City. It had seemed that a bit of uptime information regarding the airline industry had reached Young and he had made it his goal to turn Salt Lake City into the great transportation hub of the West, calling it the holy duty of every Mormon to support this project so that people coming to California would have to pass through Salt Lake City and hear the good word. It was one of the more unique reasons to support the project, and the funding that going to be brought in from the land sales would likely be able to finance the San Francisco to Los Angeles line. The mineral rights for the Comstock Lode deposits that the land grand area covered would be enough to pay for the Initial Operating Segment.
Gleeson Library Reading Room, University of San Francisco – February 5, 1852
Arthur rubbed the bridge of his nose and put down his book. The Rise and Fall of the British Empire, this trip to San Francisco had answered so many questions and yielded so many more. How... HOW? The supremacy of the British Empire didn't fall to some great war or calamity of the seas but simple economics. An Empire that fell much like the Romans, too unwieldy too unwilling to adapt and surpassed by others. He looked over at his notebook filled with notes of events for his superiors, books to purchase, and other snippets. Sepoy Rebellion, Opium Wars, the Berlin Conference, the Belle Epoch... the Great War... The Great Depression... the Second Great War... the Cold War... and American Supremacy. The whole of the British Empire lasted barely a century. He looked opposite the reading room table to his French colleague. To say nothing of his other colleague who occasionally swore in Russian while perusing the future that once was to be. Jacques was reading a book title Paris 1919, scoffing occasionally to himself. It was an odd circumstance that brought them all together, of course the official envoys were meeting with their "uptime counterparts" but that left the work to the researchers and staffers brought along like Arthur. Ignoring the oddity of using rainbow money to get to a proper library they each found their way to the University of San Francisco's Rare book room to conduct their research. Jacques had attempted to go to the San Francisco Public Library but attracted too many gawkers and took a librarians invitation for the much quieter USF. Victor went straight to the Russian consulate but refused to believe their truth of events, and sought independent confirmation. Arthur... well sad to say he went to a bookstore called City Lights but was cited by a police officer for relieving himself in an alley, apparently ALL people in this new San Francisco used toilets in privacy. Jacques closed his book, "I find myself looking at this new history with an interesting perspective Mr. McDougall. A future to be avoided to be certain."
"What are your thoughts?" Arthur asked, he hardly trusted the French, his father fought with Wellington at Waterloo.
Jacques smiled, "The great evil of the 20th century is plain to see. It is a United Germany." he said holding up a hardbound book embossed with an image of Otto von Bismarck. "World War I was started by them, and their government caused the second one"
Arthur scoffed, "Herr Hitler I must remind you was an Austrian."
Jacques smiled, "All the more reason. The Danish conflict is sowing the seeds of what is to come. German must not unite."
Arthur frowned, "Stalling will only work for so long. Eager to avoid your fate in another Franco-Prussian War?"
"Eager to see your sovereign's house fall again?" he riposted.
Viktor threw his heavy tome across the room, his thick Russian accent yelled, "It is not Germany, Hitler, or your wounded national pride. The true threat is Communism." pointing at Arthur, "Your nation better be planning to make that Marx and Engels disappear!"
Arthur grimaced, "I'm afraid it's too late for either if the gossip I heard is true." standing up, "Gentlemen, it is plain to see that before us in this room," he said gesturing to reading room with several piles of books, "That we have been given a divine opportunity. To learn from the future, to repair our present. I've already heard my superiors mention plans for an audit of the East India Company to avoid the disaster in India."
Jacques scoffed, "If you think you will outplay us again you are wrong monsieur."
Viktor scoffed, "Oh please both of you invaded us to stop this communism before. We can kill it in it's crib, NOW.""
Arthur was more uncertain, He saw the wave of revolutions in 1848. He had seen the proof that it wasn't an isolated incident but a wave. A wave that would not end at Europe but over the next century take over the globe. Bloody Hell, Britain would even nearly lose Scotland by 2018. As much as he hated saying it, the future was coming whether they liked it or not.
"Men in all our countries we tried and failed to stop progress, perhaps it is best if we adjust to create the least unfavorable history for us, rather then letting our nations be consigned to a future of irrelevance, cowardice, and corruption."
Jacques scoffed again, "France does not surrender."
Viktor was silent, before saying, "This is not going to be popular in Moscow"
Arthur held up his hands, "Most of our leaders debate the course of action without knowing the future." before tossing a book to Viktor, The Russian Revolution by Oxford University Press. "We now know the future, and we can work together to prevent it." Looking to Jacques, "Or we can ignore it."
Jacques gathered his book purchases, "Germany must be destroyed in the crib!" and slammed the door leaving both Viktor and Arthur alone,
"What do you propose."
Arthur smiled, "Politics is the Art of the Impossible, the International order after the council of Vienna must change. California will dominate the Pacific, and we better adjust... My government might be willing to take Alaska off your hands should your social changes cause a need for capital."
Viktor laughed, "Pax Brittania once again?"
"Is it better to be a partner in international order in Pax Brittania then a pariah in Pax Californica? With Germany on our side... what can't we do?"
Both of them looked around the reading room, "Tell me your proposal and I could advocate it in Moscow."
Arthur smiled, "While taking credit for it?"
Viktor laughed, "Of course. Just like I doubt you will mention me to your Foreign and Colonial Offices." and the two proceeded to outline their plans. Although it would not be known for a decade the future of Russia and Great Britain was set by that meeting. Their purchases of Keynes and Friedman Economic texts, and multiple histories would yield considerable political capital back home, it would also mean the death of many "upcoming" political leaders. No one could trust a man whose future was mapped out. Benjamin Disraeli would find himself sidelined in Parliament constantly, and forced to concede leadership to others, harangued by the legacy of a man who never would be. Friedrich Wilhelm Nikolaus Karl of House Hohenzollern would be encouraged to stop smoking entirely.
Of course a darker history was also established that day but Arthur and Viktor would curse it once they would finally hear of it. Soon after they left the reading room two men entered where the downtimers had just left, "All right Michael, why did you do this little stunt?" stated Scott Nichols, the Governor of California's Deputy Chief of Staff for Foreign Affairs. Michael Reynolds, a professor of history and international politics at the University of San Francisco bent down to pick up the book Viktor had thrown. Holding it up to Scott he ripped open the hard cover book revealing a recording device, "History won't wait for us. Our knowledge of the future gives us insight but the future isn't written in stone."
Scott looked around at the reading room, the ceiling tiles alone contained plastic domes and microphones that no downtimer would think twice about yet, "I figured as much. But you pulled a lot of strings to get me here to show me a stunt? The governor and Pelosi are meeting with the downtime envoys at the St. Francis and I should be there."
Michael smiled, "California will become a geopolitical actor by our mere presence. The Empires of Europe are going through their own geopolitical calculus and they will come to the same conclusion I have. They lost the Pacific because of our mere presence. The combined navies of Europe can't fight a carrier group, and they know it now. If you want to get the trade agreements California needs, we need to get operations going overseas."
Scott looked up from the book, "Is this the conversation I think we are having? You want to make the CIA?"
Michael shrugged, "Who else you got? Feinstein is stuck in DC, and her Intelligence experience is useless now."
Scott paced in front of the whiteboard Viktor and Arthur used and erased, and up at the little black dome in the ceiling that recorded their whole little division of the globe. "If... if… I get the governor to sign off on this. Let's run down your pertinent experience."
Michael smiled, "Former Deputy Director of the CIA for East Asian Analysis. I was terminated in 2017 for calling the President an idiot, big surprise. Took a job at out alma mater and was hoping to get a better job down in Silicon Valley when The Event happened."
Scott nodded, "You want to be head of the Californian Intelligence Agency?"
Michael scoffed, "No. This... if we do it at all we need a fresh start, we need to combine all the uptime assets we have in one place, with a unified agenda. I think we can do that. We only got fragments of the CIA and NSA left. Probably only a few duty officers right?"
Scott nonchalantly responded, "I can't confirm or deny that."
Michael laughed, "I had Yankee White Security Clearance. I'd pass the clearance for Grizzly Red easy."
"Let's not put the cart ahead of the horse." stated Scott, "Why appeal to me? You were already on Pelosi's and Feinstein's short list for the job of Uptime Director of National Intelligence." Pelosi's remnant Federal Government was bizarre in many ways and it's why it wasn't going to last probably if the games in Washington went how many thought they were in Sacramento
"Because I don't want that job. I want to coordinate with all available uptime intelligence operations." Michael said as he placed some of the discarded books on the cart to be reshelved. "Including the uptime foreign ones."
Scott chortled "You are nuts."
Michael shrugged, "No I'm not. China's consulate was likely the go between how many IP operations to China, same with Japan. Russia's been operating in California since the Cold War. Where are these people supposed to go? The People's Republic of China doesn't exist yet, and won't for a century if then. Japantown alone probably has a higher GDP than Japan itself right now."
Scott shook his head, "Too many conflicting loyalties"
"Actually they all have the same loyalty, whether they like it or not. Uptimer California. That's their only home now, what's a country where not even their great grandparents are born yet?"
Scott considered it, "I'll talk with Gavin about it, and get back to you. It won't be an easy sell. You owe me."
Michael nodded, "History is on the move, Captain. Those who cannot keep up will be left behind, to watch from a distance. And those who stand in our way, they will not watch at all."
Scott nodded and began to walk away but paused, "Did you just quote the Extended Star Wars Universe at me?"
Michael merely laughed.
———
The latter section of this update was written by Firebringer2077 from the Discord.
always_confused
Perpetually unwanted
- Location
- SEA
Damn...hopefully India still gets its independence in this timeline. Lord knows our country was fucked up enough by the Empire...
- Location
- Canada
There's a problem with this way of seeing things. And that's the fact that India is only one country BECAUSE of the British.
Otherwise it would be a gaggle of nations with somewhat similar cultures. Kind of like Central America (of course rather larger per country, but still).