Nictis
Best Sidekick
- Location
- Ninja Dave's Cookies
- Pronouns
- Any
That would explain it, yes.
A Game of Crowns (Mafia)
- Thread starter LostDeviljho
- Start date
- Mafia
- Location
- Far Eastern Financial District
OH HAI
Some quick hits:
Almost every read on this list is the direct opposite of mine... have my shortcomings caught up to me once again?
@Absum if/when you see this, you once said you found some interaction between Nictis and ES on D1 strange/weird/off, care to explain/expand on why that is?
Some quick hits:
Been busy, been doing a big post. Patience.
But here is the flavor as of current I guess: (Before page 15)
Evenstar = Town
Absum = Scum
Happerry = Town
Nictis = Nictis(Town)
TurtleDucks = Ugh... why...
Nanimani = Ugh...
1k = Scum
Hobo = Neutral
Pyrros = Slightly Low Neutral
Cyric = Neutral
Mesonixian = Scum
Not Mentioned = Literally nothing.
Things should speed up now that I'm about to hit things I've tried to parse in terms of being a player instead of things just as a reader.
Almost every read on this list is the direct opposite of mine... have my shortcomings caught up to me once again?
@Absum if/when you see this, you once said you found some interaction between Nictis and ES on D1 strange/weird/off, care to explain/expand on why that is?
- Location
- United States
- Pronouns
- He/Him
That read list was from page 15 so only halfway through day 1, combine with I play the game weird and consider basically everyone scum at game start. Having different views than me isn't inherently wrong, and I missed you on that list somehow even though I had a town read of you at that point. Certainly never take anything I say as truth, or even correct, I enjoy lying in these games and can fabricate entire rationals on people I believe are so painfully town if I really want. Always trust your own intuition and analysis, just don't be unwilling to examine other people's arguments thats how you get pocketed by scum.
- Location
- Far Eastern Financial District
Holy sh#t that wall of text, and no links to boot?... Comi you rood bastard
Im ignoring this for now, also light scumread because its like hes too concerned with looking busy, wants to be seen doing things, etc.
And Im not a fan of this... idk, agenda-less notetaking? Color it my responsibility to focus on this asap I guess
lol Nictis get out of my head
Current thoughts on D2:
Im surprised that 2 people thought QT was still alive...is this a real mistake, or scum taking refuge in audacity?
And now Im paranoid over Absum
Im ignoring this for now, also light scumread because its like hes too concerned with looking busy, wants to be seen doing things, etc.
And Im not a fan of this... idk, agenda-less notetaking? Color it my responsibility to focus on this asap I guess
lol Nictis get out of my head
Current thoughts on D2:
Im surprised that 2 people thought QT was still alive...is this a real mistake, or scum taking refuge in audacity?
And now Im paranoid over Absum
- Location
- I think somewhere. I might be nowhere though
Okay, took some time to cool down a bit because I felt like I was sounding whiny.
I have a feeling the "wrong things in what criticisms have been given" was reinforced by the BB thing, to which I will say that my current strategy was reinforced because what they had said wasn't true. It was very much true that I wasn't very active at that time and that very much is a valid criticism, but the reason I took the opposite example than what they said is because I had done what they claimed I didn't do in those two posts; which leads me to feeling that if people are not only going to ignore but straight up claim that I haven't done what I did when I am trying even when I don't know what to say, then I should just wait until I do know what to say. I am not going to get any favorable responses with half measures even if you guys say that I will, because you guys have proven that what you say you want to see and what you expect to see are two different things.
The lessons I have learned are as follows -
Game 1: I learned that when I get in to a sticky situation, I need to either double-down, or work closer with what tools I have available. I went in with half-measures hoping that would be enough, but the ever-vigilant Comi kept on me even after their initial reason for suspecting me (Orange shooter) went down the drain with Terra's death. I likely could have survived that game had I either stuck closer to my story and abandoned the pretense of being in a two-person faction (since my fake story would have matched with a one-person faction and we had an odd number to justify it), or bothered to coordinate with my partner closer so they didn't unnecessarily rat me out (this also led to a problem in my second game). I also had a major problem where I felt every single post was making me seem suspicious, so I didn't use my insanely powerful role on any but two days (and I never got to see it in action due to failures both nights) because I was afraid of being watched or tracked. That was a major problem and while I was a bit offended at TPK's statements, I can understand his frustration at that specific part.
Game 2: Hoo boy, let's start off with the smaller lesson that's connected to the game 1 thing. There are no house rules in Mafia. When QT pretended to be a bounty-hunting third-party, I believed him because of the reactions to both the last game's surrenders and because no one else seemed to have a problem with it during that same game. During the last game, people had done similar surrenders to the type that QT had appeared to be doing and no one ever questioned as to whether they were telling the truth (at least openly). Likewise, people weren't really questioning QT as to whether they were telling the truth either. This led me to believe that there was some kind of house rule in play where surrenders aren't one of the things you lie about. It didn't exactly help that that IS the way I personally play. You guys heavily doubted whether I was telling the truth as SK when I offered to simply off the remaining Mafia before letting you guys lynch me, but I was telling the truth. I play games like I play chess: when you've run out of viable moves to win, simply give an honorable forfeit. If there's no move you can make that will actually lead to victory, why delay endlessly?
The second, and more important, lesson was that I shouldn't try to play like you guys. I had tried to reform myself based on advice given to me before that game started, as well as by playing to how I perceived you guys to play. That ended as a giant garbage fire because attempting to play like you guys and apply "pressure" and following leads ended up with me looking like a sick satire of a Mafia player, made even worse by the fact that I was emboldened because I knew I was practically un-lynchable due to being Mayor. I then decided to take a break and simply follow some games to sharpen my analysis skills. It didn't really work out well because the only person I was actually able to read correctly was the noob with signs so obvious that anyone looking at the game could tell what was going on. The only thing I actually proved better at you guys is being genre savvy and paying attention to how the environment of the game influences role placement and power distribution, which is why I still view it as important despite your earlier dismissal of it this game. Mind you, I don't think it's something you should rely 100% on, but it should definitely influence your leans as to game structure until you begin to learn more about game structure yourself.
Game 3: I did fantastic in this game, and I really felt like I was actually playing Mafia for the first time ever. Playing SK was amazing - despite the fact that victory was practically impossible due to the double-layered game - and actually allowed me to use my strengths in the game. I didn't really learn anything important in this one other than the fact that you were surprisingly open to my false backstory when I expected you to be one of the more cynical people. I suppose I could also count the fact that it highlighted once again that I am bad at reading people, given that Nani was my highest town read yet he turned out to be the Godfather (and apparently turns into Tom Sawyer when he's angry : P) and thereby doomed what little chance I had of winning.
This did teach me something that turned out to be flawed, and I will point it out in Game 4.
Game 4: As I said, BB reinforced my growing view that the best way to learn is through paying attention to how people react to what I say and do rather than necessarily how I am told people want me to do, because people very often have visions of what they want to see yet fail to recognize what they tell others (me in this case) to do may not end up matching with that vision and therefore they fail to recognize those very actions were taken. More importantly, this game pointed out that I need to figure out how to be more assertive. I was able to get by in Game 3 because you were surprisingly willing to be my voice in Game 3, meaning all I needed to do was put information out there and let you take it in how you do normally. That fell apart in Game 4 because all the proactive Town leaders were dead and I had no one to really help along. I had so many reads and suspicions near the end of my game, but I didn't know how to push them (like how Wyatt quickly fell to the wayside of any and all lynches) and others I didn't know how to voice (like how I did indeed find Comi suspicious by how incredibly helpful and accepting of my Vig claim he was, when most vets are suspicious for at least a while). Like with what happened with Dovah in Game 2 though, I know that I don't know how to lead properly so I don't push hard on people who are supporting me who I am finding suspicious because I don't know what I will do if my support base is wrecked and I only get myself lynched as a result.
Now that I have explained things from my point of view, I am entirely willing to hear your thoughts since you have been patient about this.
Okay, now that I've got that out of the way, I will go ahead and see how the thread has updated since. I kinda got distracted for a few hours while I was typing this.
The problem is that I am not just starting out. If I don't have the hang of this by now, chances are I am not going to get the hang of it 10 games from now. I am just not social enough to play games like this. I also do try to focus on people. I actually said there were two people I am focusing on right now, and I have also in every game since my break offered to do archive-dives for people by pulling relevant quotes and offering analysis and commentary for what that meant in the greater situation surrounding said quotes.
I have looked at what has not been said before. It's just that there's usually nothing alarming until later in the game when scum has to begin to lie more and face more confrontation with nightly information that I can put together the puzzle to see what piece is missing. Like, I could do a lot of what you are saying, but none of that solves the main problem which is that I operate better when I have a fuller picture. Full pictures, in previous games, haven't really begun to form until Day 3 and Day 4 when more nightly actions and flips have begun taking place to actually give me a lead. I don't have anything to ask until I actually think of something to follow up on, and that only happens in the later days. Likewise, Comi has only recently subbed in so I am giving him more time before I can actually form an opinion on how Comi is acting and coordinating it with what little info is on TD.
I have a feeling the "wrong things in what criticisms have been given" was reinforced by the BB thing, to which I will say that my current strategy was reinforced because what they had said wasn't true. It was very much true that I wasn't very active at that time and that very much is a valid criticism, but the reason I took the opposite example than what they said is because I had done what they claimed I didn't do in those two posts; which leads me to feeling that if people are not only going to ignore but straight up claim that I haven't done what I did when I am trying even when I don't know what to say, then I should just wait until I do know what to say. I am not going to get any favorable responses with half measures even if you guys say that I will, because you guys have proven that what you say you want to see and what you expect to see are two different things.
The lessons I have learned are as follows -
Game 1: I learned that when I get in to a sticky situation, I need to either double-down, or work closer with what tools I have available. I went in with half-measures hoping that would be enough, but the ever-vigilant Comi kept on me even after their initial reason for suspecting me (Orange shooter) went down the drain with Terra's death. I likely could have survived that game had I either stuck closer to my story and abandoned the pretense of being in a two-person faction (since my fake story would have matched with a one-person faction and we had an odd number to justify it), or bothered to coordinate with my partner closer so they didn't unnecessarily rat me out (this also led to a problem in my second game). I also had a major problem where I felt every single post was making me seem suspicious, so I didn't use my insanely powerful role on any but two days (and I never got to see it in action due to failures both nights) because I was afraid of being watched or tracked. That was a major problem and while I was a bit offended at TPK's statements, I can understand his frustration at that specific part.
Game 2: Hoo boy, let's start off with the smaller lesson that's connected to the game 1 thing. There are no house rules in Mafia. When QT pretended to be a bounty-hunting third-party, I believed him because of the reactions to both the last game's surrenders and because no one else seemed to have a problem with it during that same game. During the last game, people had done similar surrenders to the type that QT had appeared to be doing and no one ever questioned as to whether they were telling the truth (at least openly). Likewise, people weren't really questioning QT as to whether they were telling the truth either. This led me to believe that there was some kind of house rule in play where surrenders aren't one of the things you lie about. It didn't exactly help that that IS the way I personally play. You guys heavily doubted whether I was telling the truth as SK when I offered to simply off the remaining Mafia before letting you guys lynch me, but I was telling the truth. I play games like I play chess: when you've run out of viable moves to win, simply give an honorable forfeit. If there's no move you can make that will actually lead to victory, why delay endlessly?
The second, and more important, lesson was that I shouldn't try to play like you guys. I had tried to reform myself based on advice given to me before that game started, as well as by playing to how I perceived you guys to play. That ended as a giant garbage fire because attempting to play like you guys and apply "pressure" and following leads ended up with me looking like a sick satire of a Mafia player, made even worse by the fact that I was emboldened because I knew I was practically un-lynchable due to being Mayor. I then decided to take a break and simply follow some games to sharpen my analysis skills. It didn't really work out well because the only person I was actually able to read correctly was the noob with signs so obvious that anyone looking at the game could tell what was going on. The only thing I actually proved better at you guys is being genre savvy and paying attention to how the environment of the game influences role placement and power distribution, which is why I still view it as important despite your earlier dismissal of it this game. Mind you, I don't think it's something you should rely 100% on, but it should definitely influence your leans as to game structure until you begin to learn more about game structure yourself.
Game 3: I did fantastic in this game, and I really felt like I was actually playing Mafia for the first time ever. Playing SK was amazing - despite the fact that victory was practically impossible due to the double-layered game - and actually allowed me to use my strengths in the game. I didn't really learn anything important in this one other than the fact that you were surprisingly open to my false backstory when I expected you to be one of the more cynical people. I suppose I could also count the fact that it highlighted once again that I am bad at reading people, given that Nani was my highest town read yet he turned out to be the Godfather (and apparently turns into Tom Sawyer when he's angry : P) and thereby doomed what little chance I had of winning.
This did teach me something that turned out to be flawed, and I will point it out in Game 4.
Game 4: As I said, BB reinforced my growing view that the best way to learn is through paying attention to how people react to what I say and do rather than necessarily how I am told people want me to do, because people very often have visions of what they want to see yet fail to recognize what they tell others (me in this case) to do may not end up matching with that vision and therefore they fail to recognize those very actions were taken. More importantly, this game pointed out that I need to figure out how to be more assertive. I was able to get by in Game 3 because you were surprisingly willing to be my voice in Game 3, meaning all I needed to do was put information out there and let you take it in how you do normally. That fell apart in Game 4 because all the proactive Town leaders were dead and I had no one to really help along. I had so many reads and suspicions near the end of my game, but I didn't know how to push them (like how Wyatt quickly fell to the wayside of any and all lynches) and others I didn't know how to voice (like how I did indeed find Comi suspicious by how incredibly helpful and accepting of my Vig claim he was, when most vets are suspicious for at least a while). Like with what happened with Dovah in Game 2 though, I know that I don't know how to lead properly so I don't push hard on people who are supporting me who I am finding suspicious because I don't know what I will do if my support base is wrecked and I only get myself lynched as a result.
Now that I have explained things from my point of view, I am entirely willing to hear your thoughts since you have been patient about this.
I was referring to the "is he Jester, is he not Jester" part of the last game, not the Doc thing from last game. The whole fact made me really jumpy about spurious claims so early. That was a really stressful time for me last game, and seeing a possible second-coming of those types of claims made me nervous about it.
Okay, now that I've got that out of the way, I will go ahead and see how the thread has updated since. I kinda got distracted for a few hours while I was typing this.
- Location
- United States
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Its literally my google doc of notes
but I am rood! Get it that that isn't coming across readable will fix it to the best of my ability in the repost.
Of course, I want to look busy, because I replaced in and really need to consume the week of game time everyone else has over me, especially replacing into a strange position. I'm trying to get a discussion going and I'm glad I posted those unfinished notes because at least it got people talking, even if not nearly as much as I was hoping, and hoping there was going to be more posts like Nanimani's on it instead of the I'm not reading it posts but at least its a plot point I guess.
Wow, that is a fascinating low number of votes.
- Location
- I think somewhere. I might be nowhere though
I'm going to be completely honest and public here to everyone reading this. My role has given me zero lore information about what is going on so any structural guesses I have about the game have been completely based on the OP and day posts. As a result, a lot of your posts intrigue me because they signal you as likely a high information player and therefore possibly trustworthy, but I don't have enough information to tell whether or not you are missing information as scum and casting blame on someone else as missing information (basically kinda what you are accusing Absum of), or if what you are saying does indeed signal your town-ness as you are trying to show and use push with the Absum and TD situation.
I am also of the mind that the investigatory roles of Town should keep a close eye on the flavor text describing the kill.
It will probably come in handy if your roles mention what the person you are spying on looks like, since it'd have to be someone that would be prone to absolutely brutalizing rather than a mere assassin. I also find it likely they have more than one type of kill both based on the fact that this was very clearly not an assassin's blow, and from how mafia usually has multiple kill types.
If we are watching out for assassins, I wouldn't be surprised if there were a Ninja or Poisoner as their actual "Assassin" character in lore.
- Location
- Inside my own head
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Ok, look. I only ever actively considered that it might look like this when I told you what I thought TD might have been. Before that I was passively aware of it when you asked me to name a specific role, but I didn't particularly care because I thought that would fizzle out anyway.
Then second, I know nothing about the setup aside my own role and flavour, which give me no information on anything or anyone else. That you have decided that me thinking you unnecessarily revealing yourself as a PR and randomly guessing at NK-proof roles and speculating on mafia only needing to kill one person when the new flavour practically spelled that out means I know things seems to be you getting influenced by your own knowledge.
And if you're wondering why I felt someone knowing me was even an option when I know so little about the setup: My flavour does imply that I am at least somewhat famous, even if I would not usually have expected anyone to start with me revealed. That it was an (unlikely) option was because of TD's behaviour and your specific question.
Quote me, please, because I couldn't find what you mean? I searched for me saying Nictis though so possible I missed it.
I think I might have agreed with someone else on some interaction once? Maybe?
- Location
- Inside my own head
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Err, the flavour of the opening post is that we've been invaded by barbarians. While I did consider it might be a strongman kill I'm not sure either way. Strongman D1 seems odd to me.
- Location
- I think somewhere. I might be nowhere though
I didn't say anything about strongman though? All I said is that it would be someone who probably looks like they would brutalize another i.e. someone that would look thuggish or incredibly bulky (and possibly carrying blunt weapons as opposed to sharp weapons).
- Location
- Inside my own head
- Pronouns
- They/Them
It's just me commenting with some of my thoughts because you talked about multiple kill types.
Nictis
Best Sidekick
- Location
- Ninja Dave's Cookies
- Pronouns
- Any
Alright.
@mesonoxian Most of your interactions have been with Rosen, I was wondering if you had any thoughts on the events of today? You felt pretty good to me Day 1 but the near disappearance Day 2 is concerning.
@Nanimani Got two questions for you, is it a good time to share the 'Reasons' you were voting Rosen Day 1, and did anything interesting happen Night One that you want to share?
@Cyricubed how are things progressing over there?
@ComiTurtle Got any thoughts on the overall game, setup, etc? Wanted to ask now to see how things change later.
@mesonoxian Most of your interactions have been with Rosen, I was wondering if you had any thoughts on the events of today? You felt pretty good to me Day 1 but the near disappearance Day 2 is concerning.
@Nanimani Got two questions for you, is it a good time to share the 'Reasons' you were voting Rosen Day 1, and did anything interesting happen Night One that you want to share?
@Cyricubed how are things progressing over there?
@ComiTurtle Got any thoughts on the overall game, setup, etc? Wanted to ask now to see how things change later.
- Location
- Inside my own head
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Anyway I just kind of fucked up this Day (even ignoring the big fail with the ISO
) I should just have immediately voted for someone at the start of the Day instead of this weird-ass avoidance, then there might have been some more discussion at least.So for now I'll do the vote I wanted to do at Day start
[X] Lynch Nanimani
I will give (not supremely convincing, obviously, or I would not have done this stupid waffling) reasons once I'm back from dinner in a few hours, will also do a quick ISO to see if it is actually still a vote I'm ok with because I haven't taken mroe recent posts into consideration yet. I'm also ok with lynching one of the less active people at this point, which admittedly feels bad as they all seem to have midterms (or at least I know LttL, Ban and ES do) but I don't really know wtf right now either.
Also @Est do you think you could tell us why you're voting Ban? I know you had a big post at first but lost it (rip) but by now I'd really like to see some of those reasons even if you don't have time/motivation for a big post.
Nictis
Best Sidekick
- Location
- Ninja Dave's Cookies
- Pronouns
- Any
Cyricubed
Residant Bird.
- Location
- United States
- Pronouns
- He/Him/Birb
Nictis
Best Sidekick
- Location
- Ninja Dave's Cookies
- Pronouns
- Any
Ah yes, just in time for me to go to work.
- Location
- Inside my own head
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Ah :/
I suppose I should leave answering things to the people themselves yeah. I just assumed you had missed it.
Nictis
Best Sidekick
- Location
- Ninja Dave's Cookies
- Pronouns
- Any
Wow, we're Town? I thought we were just a maf without any way to communicate
It's called asking the GM
Burgers are in oven, time to post read.
So, aside from two small things, Nani just feels really neutral to me. There was a lot of "I am Town" from Nani Day 1, which is probably NAI but makes me feel somewhat suspicious, and Nani had never answered Rosen's question but had commented on Rosen's dismissal of the meme answers as something that people still had to come up with.
So... I got nothing on Nani, which is why I was trying for a cheap shot to see if Nani might have been making up the roleblock.
[Speculation Redacted for further consideration]
DimensionalGuy
Lazy Bastard
- Location
- Sweden
Gotta vote for someone, and I'm not feeling Nani. While I dislike how Evenstar revealed information, they do still feel town to me, at least for the moment...
Est pretty much addressed my issues immediately so...
[X]Lynch Look to the Left
Yep.
Est pretty much addressed my issues immediately so...
[X]Lynch Look to the Left
Yep.
Nanimani
Probably listening to music
- Pronouns
- She/Her
1: I thought I might've already let that slip. Noticed some people kinda... just brushing away concerns on him whose arguments I didn't like and put them yellow in my notes. Rosen coming up scum would've pushed them into a solid orange. That said, it was a bit too early to call them out on it, and I'm worried they'd fade into unoffensive to me if I mentioned what I was doing. You can argue that'd in itself be suspicious, but that's how people in general're looking to me, so it'd just be a trend not continuing.
2: I said I was roleblocked, you know. If you want the flavor, thorny vines of magic binding me. Sharp thorns. Ow thorns. Mentioned my trying to get out of them got me bleeding. Disappeared when the sun rose.
What was it, by the by? Please don't expect me to have seen it. Absum says his thing may've been obvious, but I didn't even realize he was making an attempt at scumhunting at all today until he flat-out said it.
Okay, but why would I have done that? If I were scum, I wouldn't risk that on *N1* with me unaware of whether a roleblocker was around. Now if I was maf and got a fellow maf to not RB anyone to claim RB'd, I could see that. But not just making it up wholecloth.
Nanimani
Probably listening to music
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Also, I just kinda thought saying Reasons was funny, but that's not a reason reason.
Nictis
Best Sidekick
- Location
- Ninja Dave's Cookies
- Pronouns
- Any
ngl, I am actually really okay with this lynch as well. I think that Absum is scum, but I'm also trying to figure out why that would be the interaction as scum. @ComiTurtle thoughts?
Bit more of the second, or having an expectation that the game wouldn't have a roleblocker at all. It didn't really cost anything to try and see if you 'forgot' about it.