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A Champion in Earth Bet [Worm/Original Setting]

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Okay. Obviously, what Alectai said regarding needing to finish this quickly is true. Also keep in mind that our fate "charges" are effectively lives; they give us retries and using them is casting from HP. Not that we can afford not to go all out, though. We might also want to keep a charge in reserve to destroy the core, but we have to blast off the ablative armor first. And I think we do need to kill her; she's almost certainly not going to run. We need to keep Ziz busy not just because we'll run out of charges, but also because if we don't, she has time to hop over to Bet and nab a hostage or Coil. Though this would give us a few moments to recuperate, it comes at the cost of her being much stronger later.

Our most valuable moments are the ones right now, and right near any time we use fate manipulation, since she'll need time to recalculate. How much time is a pretty important factor. Hopefully she doesn't learn to model to account for our fate manipulation.

On another note, why is Earth-Trap still there at all? Aren't matter-antimatter reactions 100% efficient at turning matter into energy? Of course, the real question (which I don't know enough about physics to calculate) is whether the blast wiped out the moon (and therefore the conversion beam). And whether Ziz has more of those things. If not, we might not need energy resistance as much. She might have other tinkertech, though.
 
[X] Regeneration. As it stands, you are closer to death than life. This should restore you to full health over the next couple minutes.
-[X] Maximum Regeneration. Take a dozen seconds to return to full health; that'll make the rest of the fight easier.

[X] Teleportation. By jumping dozens of miles every few seconds, you can move twice as fast as your usual flight.
-[X] Long-Range Teleportation. You can reach the Simurgh's vicinity in a single jump.
 
Diller said:
We need to find where her core is IC so we can aim for that.
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We'll almost certainly have to fate manipulate the shot to actually hit her core, like we did Leviathan. Which is also probably how we'll find the core.

To be honest, finding it by any other way almost certainly won't work, especially when she can plausibly fake us out. So finding where it is, isn't too big a priority.

How to make the damage stick....is.


Incidentally, while the Simurgh's explosion was awesome and powerful, we should really hope she's got another shot of it or something similar on her.

That way we can detonate it on her.
 
One thing we need to keep in mind is that the Simurgh is Telekinetic and we are now in a cloud of rubble.

Super senses is a must to avoid her simply grabbing a rock and beaning us over the head with it.
 
Do we have another way of detecting the core? If not...well, if we can use fate to locate (hit) the core just once, even if we can't kill her it wouldn't be a total waste.

Edit: I assume the reason Ziz didn't just turn half of the Avatar into antimatter with her beam was because she couldn't? Because of his nature, or something? Turning it against her might be a good idea, but can't she manipulate it to fail with her telekinesis? Hmm, but then we might be able to fate it to not break...

Edit 2: Looks like it took Ziz the whole Leviathan battle to get back on track...but that was a really major change. I dunno how long it'll take her to handle things in a battle. Probably a shorter amount of time, but disorientation might be more harmful for her since, y'know, battle.
 
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Alectai said:
Waste of resources. We can't kill her in a single shot, and a single shot is all that a Fate Manipulation would get us.
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I'm not sure that's true. We can use methods here that would be absolutely unthinkable on a populated planet. Convert a small portion of her (or something which Fate will put in contact with her) into strangelets, and crazy Endbringer density works against her.

We'd still need to get out of the gravity well of the new quark star and back to Bet somehow, but those are problems to solve when not in danger of permadeath.
 
Unelemental said:
Just how many blasts would we need to kill her? Considering the fight with Leviathan, I don't think we can expect to finish this quickly.
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Probably more than one blast. Do keep in mind however that the Simurgh is half Leviathan's height, translating to, what, 1/8 of his volume?



greatoz said:
Okay. Obviously, what Alectai said regarding needing to finish this quickly is true. Also keep in mind that our fate "charges" are effectively lives; they give us retries and using them is casting from HP. Not that we can afford not to go all out, though. We might also want to keep a charge in reserve to destroy the core, but we have to blast off the ablative armor first. And I think we do need to kill her; she's almost certainly not going to run. We need to keep Ziz busy not just because we'll run out of charges, but also because if we don't, she has time to hop over to Bet and nab a hostage or Coil. Though this would give us a few moments to recuperate, it comes at the cost of her being much stronger later.
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Coil would be useless to her - as I specified in his interlude, his precognition power doesn't gel with Endbringers.

On another note, why is Earth-Trap still there at all? Aren't matter-antimatter reactions 100% efficient at turning matter into energy? Of course, the real question (which I don't know enough about physics to calculate) is whether the blast wiped out the moon (and therefore the conversion beam). And whether Ziz has more of those things. If not, we might not need energy resistance as much. She might have other tinkertech, though.
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The Moon is just fine - not a scratch (though it's going to get a lot of new craters once debris from Earth reaches it). As for why there's still something left from Earth-trap, it's because the conversion beam didn't affect the entire planet - just an area a few hundred feet across, centered on the Avatar.
That's still something like a billion H-bombs going off at once.


OmegaCloud said:
[X] Regeneration. As it stands, you are closer to death than life. This should restore you to full health over the next couple minutes.
-[X] Maximum Regeneration. Take a dozen seconds to return to full health; that'll make the rest of the fight easier.

[X] Teleportation. By jumping dozens of miles every few seconds, you can move twice as fast as your usual flight.
-[X] Long-Range Teleportation. You can reach the Simurgh's vicinity in a single jump.
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You can select regeneration+teleportation. You can select regeneration+enhanced regeneration. You can select teleportation+enhanced teleportation.
All four, though? The Avatar doesn't have that power.



APL 123AZ said:
One thing we need to keep in mind is that the Simurgh is Telekinetic and we are now in a cloud of rubble.

Super senses is a must to avoid her simply grabbing a rock and beaning us over the head with it.
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True... but are rocks carried by the Simurgh's telekinesis really going to hurt more than direct punches from Leviathan? Because outside of water, those hurt, but only slightly.


greatoz said:
Edit: I assume the reason Ziz didn't just turn half of the Avatar into antimatter with her beam was because she couldn't? Because of his nature, or something?
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Yep. He has some measure of protection from this sort of shenanigans.

Edit 2: Looks like it took Ziz the whole Leviathan battle to get back on track...but that was a really major change. I dunno how long it'll take her to handle things in a battle. Probably a shorter amount of time, but disorientation might be more harmful for her since, y'know, battle.
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More or less. The sudden appearance of the Avatar completely changed all possible futures for Earth-Bet, so that took the Simurgh a while to adjust.
Every use of fate manipulation also changes the future. But is it a big enough change to disorient her?


Tsotate said:
I'm not sure that's true. We can use methods here that would be absolutely unthinkable on a populated planet. Convert a small portion of her (or something which Fate will put in contact with her) into strangelets, and crazy Endbringer density works against her.
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That would be an interesting option if you were Causality or Techno-Paladin, who know about strangelets. As the Avatar, you'll need to find an Avatar solution. ;)
 
[X] Regeneration. As it stands, you are closer to death than life. This should restore you to full health over the next couple minutes.
-[X] Maximum Regeneration. Take a dozen seconds to return to full health; that'll make the rest of the fight easier.

Right now, the problem is that we're 90% dead. Assuming it takes no more than a few seconds to switch powers around, we need to worry about surviving the next few seconds more than anything else.

Admittedly, longer term, we need to worry about keeping her from retreating. If she were smarter (and aware that we have trouble with interdimensional stuff) she'd stay out of this dimension while improving her tech and sabotaging anyone else's efforts to rescue us. Our goals are 1. killing her, 2. stopping her from killing us, and 3. returning to Earth-Bet. #2 is the most immediate and tractable right now, but none of those will be easy. I think we should try using a charge of our fate manipulation power to help with #1. For #3... if we accomplish #1 & #2 then maybe we can receive outside help in time, our only other option is to focus on taking tech from the Simurg during the fight but I think we'll fail at #1 or #2 if we do that.
 
It should be noted that the main reason the Simurgh failed was thanks to Luck Manipulation...

[X] Alectai

No one looks perfect, but rapidly combined...
 
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Yeah, by all of her data, this was a guaranteed killshot.

She'll adapt but it'll take her some time, and I want to be in her face rather than watch her go vworp off again. Her TK isn't really noted for particular strength so much as her absurd precision. We can almost certainly regenerate faster than she can pile on the damage in close combat, especially if we're forcing her to use energy to defend herself rather than attack us.

And the harder we make things for her, the harder it is for her to tinker up another kill-shot for us. That's the problem with the Simurgh, even if you can throw her calculations off, unless you're actually invisible to her (Which we aren't), then she can read everything you'll ever do and come up with a countermeasure that will destroy you.

So in short, we need to try and pile on damage and reduce her options before she's activated another trump card.
 
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[X] Regeneration. As it stands, you are closer to death than life. This should restore you to full health over the next couple minutes.
-[X] Maximum Regeneration. Take a dozen seconds to return to full health; that'll make the rest of the fight easier.

Unless otherwise convinced.
 
[X] Regeneration. As it stands, you are closer to death than life. This should restore you to full health over the next couple minutes.
-[X] Maximum Regeneration. Take a dozen seconds to return to full health; that'll make the rest of the fight easier.
--[X] Once fully regenerated, switch to Teleportation + Mental Superspeed
[X] Offense is the best defense. The Simurgh may be over a thousand miles away, but you shouldn't give her time to adapt her plan.

We need to get to top condition FAST, so we have more options and she has less.
Once we've healed, the challenge is to keep the pressure on and change the future faster than she can react to while wrecking her.
 
sun tzu said:
You can select regeneration+teleportation. You can select regeneration+enhanced regeneration. You can select teleportation+enhanced teleportation.
All four, though? The Avatar doesn't have that power.
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LOL, sry.

[X] Regeneration. As it stands, you are closer to death than life. This should restore you to full health over the next couple minutes.

[X] Teleportation. By jumping dozens of miles every few seconds, you can move twice as fast as your usual flight.
 
Weren't there like 20ish endbringers in total and they just gradually came out of storage over the course of their orders (first Eden's in precoged future, then from Eidolon's shard's worthy opponent order)? Will Avatar need to fight all of them over the story's course?
 
LordCassius said:
20ish endbringers
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Eden's plan for Earth Bet called for 20. There may be other templates that she never intended for use there, either from earlier planetary conquests, or plans for further ones. It wouldn't be particularly difficult for an author to justify as many as they wanted.
 
LordCassius said:
Weren't there like 20ish endbringers in total and they just gradually came out of storage over the course of their orders (first Eden's in precoged future, then from Eidolon's shard's worthy opponent order)? Will Avatar need to fight all of them over the story's course?
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Ugh, I hope not. A couple Endbringer fights are fun. Defeating the canon ones is cathartic, and I'm pretty sure sun tzu can write some new ones in an interesting way. But more than that and Endbringer fights go from "big exciting momentous conflict" to "fuck, it's Tuesday again, we have to fight another goddamn Endbringer".
 
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