It isn't a blank check bill, it is a declaration of intent. If we really want to, we will probably be able to veto the actual declaration once they get to writing it.
I'm pretty sure Poptart just said we couldn't do that. I may be misunderstanding, but I'm pretty sure.
They will probably vote on the text itself, and we can veto at this time if the document is ludicrous. If that's not how it works, we should probably put some pressure to ensure there is a vote on the actual declaration. But I doubt it's needed because I doubt they would do anything without votes.
Which simply means that the Assembly can pass the bill over our objections if they can get a majority for it, which neutralizes
If the yes wins, we have some time to act on them and the people to shape the actual declaration.
It's not a blank check because they won't write it in isolation, even if we say yes.[/QUOTE]
I've stated multiple times that the result of this bill is going to be binding, or it wouldn't be on your desk. Mira sure can and will make suggestions, as the declaration goes through the process of revision, but if you pass it right now, they will
only be suggestions, and you (as in the players) will not actually be the ones who get to make them. If this bill passes, I take the average of the Assembly's thoughts on the matter and Mira's own opinions and ability to influence their discussion, and present the result to you all as a
fait accompli. If you want to mandate changes, you must --
as I've said -- veto it, and take subsequent actions.
Note the three underlined passages.
Folks, the declaration issue would not be crossing your desk if the resulting draft (and second draft, etc., and final draft) was not going to be binding.
In other words, if we pass it, the Declaration "goes live" and is considered law/reality, without further input from us?
Yup. This is them saying, "We the legislative body of Virmire would like to declare independence and are seeking approval for the creation of the legal document to effect that."
Now, I suppose there is SOME slim ray of uncertainty as to whether
@PoptartProdigy means "no, you do not get to have a veto over whether Virmire declares independence at a later time" or "no, you cannot veto the text of a specific objectionable declaration of independence at a later time, even if it contains provisions you
want to veto."
The point remains, there is a large element of 'blank check' here. If we pass this, I would not be at all surprised if the Assembly does something similar in the future. Why wouldn't they at least try? Why
NOT pass a "blank check" bill that gives the Assembly permission to make a few spending decisions, then use them to write into law some cushy deals for corporate sponsors? Or to institute bureaucratic 'reforms' and then use them to give the assembly more power over who we do and do not appoint to our cabinet, or things like that?
Don't get me wrong, I don't mind us considering revising Virmire's constitution to include things like this at some later date. But this
format, in which Mira has to choose between vetoing something popular (say, tax cuts) or sacrifice her ability to veto the final bill for reasons specific to its wording? Yeah, I don't like that. It's going to come around and bite us in the butt sooner or later.
I'm not in a hurry to get it passed, that's not why I'm voting to let it pass. I'm voting for it to pass because it's what the people want by a huge margin and I dont think the Citadel is going to act against their own interests at this stage in a galactic war.
Do you want it to pass
in a way that abdicates our influence over the tone and wording of the Declaration and Independence?
This is clearly going to be very much on the political radar even if we veto this particular bill. If we're not in a hurry, taking another year or two to sort out how we handle independence costs us little or nothing. And it means we're
not compromising the authority of our own office and our (thread voters') power to veto major legislation that impacts Virmire.
I also think if we get into a situation where the war isn't such an immediate threat then the Council wont immediately be hostile and try to undermine us, our existence is a black mark on them, a reminder that they kinda fucked up bad and Virmire paid for that, mistreating us would look terrible to the galactic community and it's in their interest's for a friendly reconciliation to happen.
Yes, and that sentiment may well last us for, oh, fifty years. Maybe a hundred. Two hundred?
Then we just have to worry about the 1800 or 1900 years after that.
I mean, in canon, the krogan saved the galaxy from giant monsters. The gratitude that earned them wore out pretty fast when they started muscling in on asari colony worlds.
We're only doing like 5% of the work the canon krogan did. Why should we expect to get more than 5% as much gratitude and forbearance from the Council?
That gratitude will last a couple of salarian lifetimes, and then we'll have the Council starting to show favoritism for whichever Council-affiliated entities are challenging us. Because it's to the Council's advantage to do so, as long as we're on the outside of their system and power structure, looking in.
