I do say I wish to learn more about Vegetan myth (being a sucker for RL mythology and religion) as this to me points that those who achieve SS tended to ether to right a wrong for the people or for themselves. From this point of view, we can easily see that Goku was "Justice" and Vegeta was "Vengeance"
I would not call it as clear cut as that. Goku turned Super Saiyan explicitly to avenge a friend. He does not care much about justice, either, or, at least, does not concern himself as much with it.
Vegeta's ascension to Super Saiyan, on the other hand, was triggered pretty much by despair over the dissonance between his notions about the world and the reality of the situation. He does not care for vengeance in the same sense as Goku, at least not at that point - more so than a matter of personal attachments, his need for vengeance derives from his desire to restore what is in his understanding the proper order of things; he is compelled to destroy Frieza out of his personal sense of justice, skewed as it is at the time.
Yeah, this gets juggled a lot later on, what with Vegeta being a whimsical primadonna on a regular basis. Still, I find him to be more in line with the image of Justice than Goku, especially if viewed through the lens of typical Saiyan morality.
I would not call it as clear cut as that. Goku turned Super Saiyan explicitly to avenge a friend. He does not care much about justice, either, or, at least, does not concern himself as much with it.
Vegeta's ascension to Super Saiyan, on the other hand, was triggered pretty much by despair over the dissonance between his notions about the world and the reality of the situation. He does not care for vengeance in the same sense as Goku, at least not at that point - more so than a matter of personal attachments, his need for vengeance derives from his desire to restore what is in his understanding the proper order of things; he is compelled to destroy Frieza out of his personal sense of justice, skewed as it is at the time.
Yeah, this gets juggled a lot later on, what with Vegeta being a whimsical primadonna on a regular basis. Still, I find him to be more in line with the image of Justice than Goku, especially if viewed through the lens of typical Saiyan morality.
Is it? I thought that was a separate thing from being a colored transformation and just what happens when becoming a regular god with perfect ki control
Is it? I thought that was a separate thing from being a colored transformation and just what happens when becoming a regular god with perfect ki control
You trigger the Blue Transformation by having Perfect Ki Control. Every Colored God form has it's own ritual for people who can't naturally produce the needed color, like Reaper requiring the sacrifice of a entire civilized species. The ritual for Blue is Perfect Ki Control
This is mostly Dub, as noted by Krillin rather than Kururin. I do take from manga and sub and supplemental but I'm most familiar with the Dub.
Well, and DBZA.
I would not call it as clear cut as that. Goku turned Super Saiyan explicitly to avenge a friend. He does not care much about justice, either, or, at least, does not concern himself as much with it.
Vegeta's ascension to Super Saiyan, on the other hand, was triggered pretty much by despair over the dissonance between his notions about the world and the reality of the situation. He does not care for vengeance in the same sense as Goku, at least not at that point - more so than a matter of personal attachments, his need for vengeance derives from his desire to restore what is in his understanding the proper order of things; he is compelled to destroy Frieza out of his personal sense of justice, skewed as it is at the time.
Yeah, this gets juggled a lot later on, what with Vegeta being a whimsical primadonna on a regular basis. Still, I find him to be more in line with the image of Justice than Goku, especially if viewed through the lens of typical Saiyan morality.
His personality yes. But not his actions in the SS form or his motivation for Ascension.
Goku ascended and killed a tyrant
Vegeta ascended because Goku surpassed him
Gohan initially ascended to fight the Androids but his true power unlocked in a blind sadistic rage because of 16s death and he toyed with Cell beyond what Justice would have. It's debatable here.
Future-Gohan saved civilians and opposed tyrants.
Future-Trunks fought Tyrants
It's not who they are, it's why they are Super and what they do as Super Saiyans. As interpreted by mythology and a misunderstanding of the transformation.
It's like asking "Is this shade of red a blue or a purple?"
Tien does have his eye. But is starving it of Ki for some reason, keeping it from doing Something.
Which is why Krillin is suspicious. He is not only stopping his eye from doing something but also hiding the fact he is stopping it to Ki-Sense.
Cyan isn't a real color, it's a corrupted one. The Divine forms rely specifically on actual colours so there is no Cyan God. Going Cyan while in God mode would default to either Blue or Green (about 3/4 Blue, 1/4 Green)
Incarnate Soul is the Blue God, it's also known as Super Saiyan Blue and Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan.
Tien does have his eye. But is starving it of Ki for some reason, keeping it from doing Something.
Which is why Krillin is suspicious. He is not only stopping his eye from doing something but also hiding the fact he is stopping it to Ki-Sense.
Cyan isn't a real color, it's a corrupted one. The Divine forms rely specifically on actual colours so there is no Cyan God. Going Cyan while in God mode would default to either Blue or Green (about 3/4 Blue, 1/4 Green)
Incarnate Soul is the Blue God, it's also known as Super Saiyan Blue and Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan.
[X] Plan Presents for Momma
-[X] Show him True Legend
-[X] Brutal beatings
--[X] Once a month
--[X] Frame it as Combat training
--[X] Have him heal up at Capsulecorp so Momma can get all the samples she wants
-[X] Give him a house of his own
-[X] Give his spaceship/pod to Momma...it's hers now.
The update was mostly done I was just in a "drat this went completely off my plan for writing it. How fix?" mood and went Fuck It.
Oh well, I'll need to find some other way for Gohan to recite the Yellow Lantern chant while Transforming.
He is trying to get Gossard to dress up as a Green Lantern. It's not working
First off it's great to have you back Lord Chaosrofl: And Gossard honestly seems more like a sane Red Lantern.
I feel he and Atrocious would get along well. Or by well I mean over the broken and eviscerated corpses of thier foes they could respect the others methods. Or working on the best ways to oppress others with Sinistro.
Only when his Momma is insulted.
Personally I think he would make an amazing Yellow Lantern (oh irony, heh).
Massive fear of his own power and mind, brutally crushed with his Will, a sadistic pleasure for inducing fear and pain.
He could probably reasonably pull off every Ring (except Compassion and maybe Hope) though not in a healthy way.
Love for his family (if Platonic love counts for Violet, pretty sure it does).
He isn't compassionate.
Hope is similar to the way he uses Delusion but he'd struggle to get it consistently unless he changes fundamentally.
He has a really high Willpower stat. Both crushing the natural instincts of his transformations as well as ignoring his phobia of his power.
Fear, he is a sadistic monster who is terrified of himself. Might have trouble forming construct armour though, he doesn't really fear being injured.
Greed, he wants to be King. Everything he surveys, he wants to Rule.
Rage, when his family or pride is hurt.
Gohan is much the same but would be horrible at Fear and Greed. He'd get Compassion and be a little better at Hope in return though.
Only when his Momma is insulted.
Personally I think he would make an amazing Yellow Lantern (oh irony, heh).
Massive fear of his own power and mind, brutally crushed with his Will, a sadistic pleasure for inducing fear and pain.
He could probably reasonably pull off every Ring (except Compassion and maybe Hope) though not in a healthy way.
Love for his family (if Platonic love counts for Violet, pretty sure it does).
He isn't compassionate.
Hope is similar to the way he uses Delusion but he'd struggle to get it consistently unless he changes fundamentally.
He has a really high Willpower stat. Both crushing the natural instincts of his transformations as well as ignoring his phobia of his power.
Fear, he is a sadistic monster who is terrified of himself. Might have trouble forming construct armour though, he doesn't really fear being injured.
Greed, he wants to be King. Everything he surveys, he wants to Rule.
Rage, when his family or pride is hurt.
Gohan is much the same but would be horrible at Fear and Greed. He'd get Compassion and be a little better at Hope in return though.
With Gohan getting into Super Heroes maybe we should have Gossard start studying super villains or at least the successful one's. Imagine Gohan being so excited to share his comics only to see his brother rooting for the bad guys instead of learning some desperately needed moral lessons.
With Gohan getting into Super Heroes maybe we should have Gossard start studying super villains or at least the successful one's. Imagine Gohan being so excited to share his comics only to see his brother rooting for the bad guys instead of learning some desperately needed moral lessons.
Perhaps...I'm not too interested in that my self. I honestly think Gohan would see that coming...but we also now have to deal with his flash ki screen. We either stop relying on his or develop our own to stop his watching at least.
By chance, before looking back a few pages, what was our plan beyond learning Crane arts right now?
Eh, honestly not that long if we want to get there. We just need to reach Buu-Saga levels of strength, and then achieve God. We could get a God Equivalent form very shortly by aiming for Super Saiyan 4, and thanks to Zenkai we can achieve a base power level in excess of what they probably had around Buu-Saga.
Eh, honestly not that long if we want to get there. We just need to reach Buu-Saga levels of strength, and then achieve God. We could get a God Equivalent form very shortly by aiming for Super Saiyan 4, and thanks to Zenkai we can achieve a base power level in excess of what they probably had around Buu-Saga.
It's not just about power though, our unrefined and limited pool of techniques hold us back. But perhaps I'm overestimating what Beerus would throw at us, I just prefer to err on the the side of caution.
(besides even if in perfect his Ultra Instinct skill would wipe the floor with us even if we matched power at that point.)
It's not just about power though, our unrefined and limited pool of techniques hold us back. But perhaps I'm overestimating what Beerus would throw at us, I just prefer to err on the the side of caution.
I don't think our techniques would be holding us back too much. We are mastering a lot of Martial Arts, and will master a lot more, benefiting greatly from the skills and bonuses they give us. Actual Techniques, we got plenty of people we can steal from in short order, and Goku got by just fine never creating any new techniques, stealing them instead.
I don't think our techniques would be holding us back too much. We are mastering a lot of Martial Arts, and will master a lot more, benefiting greatly from the skills and bonuses they give us. Actual Techniques, we got plenty of people we can steal from in short order, and Goku got by just fine never creating any new techniques, stealing them instead.
... You talking about Perfect Saiyan? Because that's noted to wipe teh floor with Zeno.
With Gohan getting into Super Heroes maybe we should have Gossard start studying super villains or at least the successful one's. Imagine Gohan being so excited to share his comics only to see his brother rooting for the bad guys instead of learning some desperately needed moral lessons.
No, that entire Super Hero thing Gohan is going on with is stupid, and I hope that we can beat the idea out of his head before he makes that fucking Saiyaman outfit.
It's not just about power though, our unrefined and limited pool of techniques hold us back. But perhaps I'm overestimating what Beerus would throw at us, I just prefer to err on the the side of caution.
(besides even if in perfect his Ultra Instinct skill would wipe the floor with us even if we matched power at that point.)
Eh, your Bubblebeam is actually pretty good as a technique. You are Going to hit at least some of those.
It's a Homing Macrosse Missile Massacre.
Ultra Instinct is a technique that improves your battle prowess within your tier. Ultra Instinct Frieza would get bodied by Buu just as easily.
It is pure martial arts skill, but each individual action isn't stronger than someone without the skill.
Beerus would simply wipe you out with his "I'm a God of Destruction, Destroy."
Nothing currently in the multiverse can beat Perfect Saiyan. They all got depowered when Reality was forged.
That's not to say a few things outside the multiverse like ??? can't gang up to be a decent fight but by the time you reach that level you should have dealt with them piecemeal.
No, that entire Super Hero thing Gohan is going on with is stupid, and I hope that we can beat the idea out of his head before he makes that fucking Saiyaman outfit.
He is a generic nerd, it's not just superheroes. And it'll be hard to stop Saiyaman mostly cause I think it's funny and also cause of Gossard tries to stop it, it'll only make Gohan do it more.
He is basically a Weeb in a setting where Japanese media and English media aren't differentiated. For example I had an idea for a possible Future!Gohan teaching Future!"Trunks" the sword.
By making him repeat the Gunslingers Creed replacing gun with blade.
For reference:
I do not aim with my hand. He who aims with his hand has forgotten the face of his father. I aim with my eye.
I do not strike with my hand. He who strikes with his hand has forgotten the face of his father. I strike with my mind.
I do not kill with my blade. He who kills with his blade has forgotten the face of his father. I kill with my heart.
"Mister Gohan why do you keep laughing when I say that?" said the young man reverently holding the sacred blade.
Eh, honestly not that long if we want to get there. We just need to reach Buu-Saga levels of strength, and then achieve God. We could get a God Equivalent form very shortly by aiming for Super Saiyan 4, and thanks to Zenkai we can achieve a base power level in excess of what they probably had around Buu-Saga.
To fight canon Beerus yes. To fight my powered up GoD no.
Mostly cause it would take maybe a full timeskip worth of slots to reach that level of you really wanted. Sigh.
With Gohan getting into Super Heroes maybe we should have Gossard start studying super villains or at least the successful one's. Imagine Gohan being so excited to share his comics only to see his brother rooting for the bad guys instead of learning some desperately needed moral lessons.
Just because Gossard is a utilitarian who views sadistic torture to have utility doesn't mean he needs moral lessons.
Also in this thread I think Gossard has already come out in comraderie with super villains. In the Author posts, not story posts.
Anyway, update soon (today or tomorrow probably)
Adhoc vote count started by lordchaos99 on Dec 9, 2017 at 9:01 PM, finished with 50 posts and 13 votes.
Adhoc vote count started by lordchaos99 on Dec 9, 2017 at 9:02 PM, finished with 51 posts and 13 votes.
[X] Plan Presents for Momma
-[X] Show him True Legend.
-[X] Brutal beatings
--[X] Once a month
--[X] Frame it as Combat training
--[X] Have him heal up at Capsulecorp so Momma can get all the samples she wants
-[X] Give him a house of his own
-[X] Give his spaceship/pod to Momma...it's hers now.
[X] Plan Stop Bowing To Gohan, Start Bowing To Me
-[X] Show him True Legend.
-[X] Brutal beatings
--[X] Once a week
--[X] Frame it as Combat training
-[X] CapHouse and supplies, he can live next to the Pod right here
[X] Plan Presents for Momma
-[X] Show him True Legend.
-[X] Brutal beatings
--[X] Once a month
--[X] Frame it as Combat training
--[X] Have him heal up at Capsulecorp so Momma can get all the samples she wants/won't take from her kids or Goku because their family.
-[X] Give him a house of his own
-[X] Give his spaceship/pod to Momma...it's hers now.
is a generic nerd, it's not just superheroes. And it'll be hard to stop Saiyaman mostly cause I think it's funny and also cause of Gossard tries to stop it, it'll only make Gohan do it more.
He is basically a Weeb in a setting where Japanese media and English media aren't differentiated. For example I had an idea for a possible Future!Gohan teaching Future!"Trunks" the sword.
By making him repeat the Gunslingers Creed replacing gun with blade.
For reference:
I do not aim with my hand. He who aims with his hand has forgotten the face of his father. I aim with my eye.
I do not strike with my hand. He who strikes with his hand has forgotten the face of his father. I strike with my mind.
I do not kill with my blade. He who kills with his blade has forgotten the face of his father. I kill with my heart.
"Mister Gohan why do you keep laughing when I say that?" said the young man reverently holding the sacred blade.
