All other aside, do beastmen actually employ elite assassins? That arrow was single, accurate and deadly. I thought Beastmen shooting was only successful through the rate of fire, not accuracy.
They're not known for their elite assassins, but they're not orcs. Beastmen don't lack for champions, so it could an exceptional and/or blessed ungor.
She only needs to do it until the Asrai take out the shaman, after that she can heal herself. Preventing the shaman from getting a spell off which could wreck an entire flank is worth Fanriel needing a bit longer to heal herself. Every other unit which could deal massive damage is engaged with a counter which can hold at least for a while, but the shaman is free to act. Never give a spellcaster time to act.

The Asrai take out the shaman and then attack targets of opportunity while Scarloc himself watches out for the assassin.
once we join the battle, we're not assured of having any free time to stop and heal ourselves. If rolls are bad (which they have been for most of this battle) we could end up having to reinforce in extremis other parts of the line without being able to take the necessary time to heal. Combat is chaotic after all, nothing guarantees us we will have the opportunity to do so.

Yes, letting the shaman cast is bad, but having Fanriel getting killed because she got into a fight while weakened is even worse. Scarloc's guys can shoot him dead.

This whole debacle has been a concentration of recklessness, let's not continue on that path.

Waywatchers on the tabletop
We're not on the tabletop here.
 
Sending archers against the treeman seems unwise. A tree is very resistant to little pointy sticks.
Seconded, it's a waste against a Treeman, even if it has some fleshy growths from being corrupted. Besides, the Butchers and all of the Ogres can hold for a moment. I am more worried about supporting the Irongulls against the Ninja Ungors, or shutting down the Shaman, or even killing the Chimaera. We can send Valahuir to the centre once he has burned the grove, or Aramil once he is freed up.

Regarding Aramil, the support we can give him may be magical in nature. I am positively inclined to asking Valahuir to cast Cascading Fire Cloak. Alternatively we could cast Regrowth as first thing after we are healed.

[X] Plan: Balanced Counters
- [X] Centre
-- [X] Imperial Ogres
-- [X] Butchers
-- [X] Mawguard
-- [X] The Northern Sons
- [X] Left Flank
-- [X] De Jonge Bokken
-- [X] Scarloc's Archers: target the Bray-Shaman, keep targeting him until he is dead. Then help against the Bestigors.
- [X] Right Flank
-- [X] The Seawolves
-- [X] Fireclaws: target the Greater Corrupted Forest Spirits
-- [X] The Ligthfangs (Swordmasters): help against Corrupted Forest Spirits, emergency measure against a Greater One reaching the lines.
- [X] Rear
-- [X] The Irongulls
-- [X] The Lightfangs (Sea Guard): they will help the long-suffering Irongulls in skirmishing against the ninja Ungors
- [X] Canopy
-- [X] Aramil and Stormclaw
--- [X] Before burning the Grove, Valahuir should cast Cascading Fire Cloak on Aramil to help him fight
- [X] Grove
-- [X] Valahuir Aunrith: as soon as he has cast Cascading Fire Cloak on Aramil, he should burn the grove.
- [X] Reserves
-- [X] Fanriel
-- [X] Physician, heal thyself

Points that may be changed in a Variant: where the Swordmasters should reinforce, where Scarloc can be.
The former may be better on the left, where Bestigors+Forest Spirits+the Beastlord are.
The latter could switch with the Sea Guard, to be at the back and hold off decisively the ninja-ungors and their assassin captain.

P.s. I am starting to think we may need the Ogres to uproot the Grove, to keep Valahuir's tactical flexibility with us (e.g. sending the Fireclaws on the right + casting Flaming Sword of Rhuin on the Sea Wolves completely takes care of the right wing. He can also bring down the treeman with fire, etc.).
And to avoid presenting Valahuir as a crucial target to the Beastman Assassin champion.
So an assassin-proof plan would have the Ogres uprooting the Grove, Scarloc at the back to dispatch the Ungors and find out the Assassin, the Lightfangs on the left with the Sea Guard targeting the Shaman, the Fireclaws on the right, and Valahuir supporting wherever it's needed.
 
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I just think we shouldn't give Aramil any support at all, and that if we do it shouldn't be the Fireclaws. Aramil seems capable enough of handling the chimera by himself and doesn't want the help besides. In addition, involving ranged fire has a real chance of doing more harm than good in that fight due to a risk of friendly fire if we roll poorly, per word of god. If we had no other targets at all than it may be worth considering, but at this point it just seems like a very inefficient use of our resources to use the Fireclaws for a fight that Aramil doesn't want the help at and where there's increased risk of friendly fire when there are so many other targets they could be aimed at.
 
That's why I am in favour of giving him a magic buff, so ideally he can dispatch the Chimaera quickly and safely.

[X] Plan: Flexible and assassin-proof
- [X] Centre
-- [X] Butchers
-- [X] Mawguard
-- [X] The Northern Sons
- [X] Left Flank
-- [X] De Jonge Bokken
-- [X] The Lightfangs
--- [X] The Sea Guard should target the Bray-Shaman, keep targeting him until he is dead.
- [X] Right Flank
-- [X] The Seawolves
-- [X] The Fireclaws: target the Greater Corrupted Forest Spirits
- [X] Rear
-- [X] The Irongulls
-- [X] Scarloc's Archers: the Ungor are just cover for an archer assassin-champion. Dispatch them, find and end him.
- [X] Canopy
-- [X] Aramil and Stormclaw
--- [X] Magic buff by Valahuir: Cascading Fire Cloak on Aramil
- [X] Grove
-- [X] Imperial Ogres: uproot the Grove, then return to the centre
- [X] Reserves
-- [X] Fanriel
--- [X] Physician, heal thyself
-- [X] Valahuir Aunrith: should cast Cascading Fire Cloak on Aramil, Flaming Sword of Rhuin on the Sea Wolves, then bring down the Treeman with fire.
 
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That's why I am in favour of giving him a magic buff, so ideally he can dispatch the Chimaera quickly and safely.

[X] Plan: Flexible and assassin-proof
- [X] Centre
-- [X] Butchers
-- [X] Mawguard
-- [X] The Northern Sons
- [X] Left Flank
-- [X] De Jonge Bokken
-- [X] Yhe Lightfangs
--- [X] The Sra Guard should target the Bray-Shaman, keep targeting him until he is dead.
- [X] Right Flank
-- [X] The Seawolves
-- [X] The Fireclaws: target the Greater Corrupted Forest Spirits
- [X] Rear
-- [X] The Irongulls
-- [X] Scarloc's Archers: the Ungor are just cover for an archer assassin-champion. Dispatch them, find and end him.
- [X] Canopy
-- [X] Aramil and Stormclaw
--- [X] Magic buff by Valahuir: Cascading Fire Cloak on Aramil
- [X] Grove
-- [X] Imperial Ogres: uproot the Grove, then redeploy as needed
- [X] Reserves
-- [X] Fanriel
-- [X] Physician, heal thyself
-- [X] Valahuir Aunrith: should cast Cascading Fire Cloak on Aramil, Flaming Sword of Rhuin on the Sea Wolves, then bring down the Treeman with fire.

I'd rather have Valahuir on the grove than the ogres. As we saw in the last fight, our human troops can be rather fragile in pitched combat. If we don't have the ogres supporting them, I fear our lines will become dangerously brittle and break.
 
We're not on the tabletop here.
Mmm, fair enough - poor argument on my part, though I will note that Scarloc's Archers did demonstrate skill at targeting enemy weak points against the Chaos Spawn. Striking the various mutated eyes and mouths and the rot wracking the treeman should not be a problem for them.

That said, sufficiently many people have taken the line of thinking that the Fireclaws would be better-suited here that I think I'll offer up the original version of Steady and True (slightly polished) for consideration.

[X] Plan: Steady and True (Original)
- [X] Centre
-- [X] The Northern Sons
-- [X] Imperial Ogres
-- [X] Butchers
-- [X] Mawguard
-- [X] The Fireclaws of Vaul
--- [X] The Fireclaws' marksmen and headhunters should focus on the Treeman first. Unless the line is faltering against the remainder, they should then move on to other priority targets, preferring the three major nature spirits and the Chimera. If they sight the archer who shot Fanriel, they should seek to eliminate them.
- [X] Left Flank
-- [X] De Jonge Bokken
-- [X] The Lightfangs
--- [X] The Sea Guard should focus on the Bray-Shaman first.
- [X] Right Flank
-- [X] The Seawolves
-- [X] Scarloc's Archers
--- [X] Scarloc's Archers should focus on the three major nature spirits first. Unless the line is faltering against the remainder, they should then move on to other priority targets (according to Scarloc's judgement). If they sight the archer who shot Fanriel, they should seek to eliminate them.
- [X] Rear
-- [X] The Irongulls
- [X] Canopy
-- [X] Aramil and Stormclaw
- [X] Grove
-- [X] Valahuir Aunrith
- [X] Reserves
-- [X] Fanriel
--- [X] Physician, heal thyself

[X] Plan: Steady and True (Modified)
- [X] Centre
-- [X] The Northern Sons
-- [X] Imperial Ogres
-- [X] Butchers
-- [X] Mawguard
-- [X] Scarloc's Archers
--- [X] Scarloc's Archers should focus on the Treeman first. Unless the line is faltering against the remainder, they should then move on to other priority targets (according to Scarloc's judgement). If they sight the archer who shot Fanriel, they should seek to eliminate them.
- [X] Left Flank
-- [X] De Jonge Bokken
-- [X] The Lightfangs
--- [X] The Sea Guard should focus on the Bray-Shaman first.
- [X] Right Flank
-- [X] The Seawolves
-- [X] The Fireclaws of Vaul
--- [X] The Fireclaws' marksmen and headhunters should focus on the three major nature spirits first. Unless the line is faltering against the remainder, they should then move on to other priority targets, preferring the Treeman and the Chimera. If they sight the archer who shot Fanriel, they should seek to eliminate them.
- [X] Rear
-- [X] The Irongulls
- [X] Canopy
-- [X] Aramil and Stormclaw
- [X] Grove
-- [X] Valahuir Aunrith
- [X] Reserves
-- [X] Fanriel
--- [X] Physician, heal thyself

[X] Plan: Forget 'Steady and True', Kill That Chimera Now
- [X] Centre
-- [X] The Northern Sons
-- [X] Imperial Ogres
-- [X] Butchers
-- [X] Mawguard
- [X] Left Flank
-- [X] De Jonge Bokken
-- [X] The Lightfangs
--- [X] The Sea Guard should focus on the Bray-Shaman first.
- [X] Right Flank
-- [X] The Seawolves
- [X] Rear
-- [X] The Irongulls
- [X] Canopy
-- [X] Aramil and Stormclaw
-- [X] The Fireclaws of Vaul
-- [X] Scarloc's Archers
--- [X] If the Chimera is destroyed, the Fireclaws and Scarloc's Archers should move on to other priority targets. Scarloc's Archers should act according to Scarloc's judgement; the Fireclaws should prioritise the three leaders of the nature spirits, then the Treeman. If either sight the archer who shot Fanriel, they should seek to eliminate them.
- [X] Grove
-- [X] Valahuir Aunrith
- [X] Reserves
-- [X] Fanriel
--- [X] Physician, heal thyself

[] Plan: Flexible and assassin-proof
Gah. Gah. I like the intent here - giving the assassin room to snipe at people is not brilliant - but trying to withdraw 150 Imperial Ogres from the Butchers and let then let them and 20 Mawguard cover the space that they did feels both unreliable in terms of the Imperial Ogres choosing to leave the Butchers and dangerous in a way akin to trying to pull the Northern Sons out. I've got far greater confidence that they'll be willing to reform to cover the space that the Ogres left but I'm less sure that they'll be able to do so quickly or safely and that they won't be spread too thin afterwards - or that they won't balk at Valahuir casting magic on the treeman.

But we should try to put pressure on the assassin. We should. And, of everywhere, they are most likely to be at the rear with the Ungors, given that they were at the prior battle to kill Helsner.

Gah. New variant!

[X] Plan: Steady and True (Assassin-Hunting Variant)
- [X] Centre
-- [X] The Northern Sons
-- [X] Imperial Ogres
-- [X] Butchers
-- [X] Mawguard
-- [X] The Fireclaws of Vaul
--- [X] The Fireclaws' marksmen and headhunters should focus on the Treeman first. Unless the line is faltering against the remainder, they should then move on to other priority targets, preferring the three major nature spirits and the Chimera. If they sight the archer who shot Fanriel, they should seek to eliminate them.
- [X] Left Flank
-- [X] De Jonge Bokken
-- [X] The Lightfangs
--- [X] The Sea Guard should focus on the Bray-Shaman first.
- [X] Right Flank
-- [X] The Seawolves
- [X] Rear
-- [X] The Irongulls
- [X] Canopy
-- [X] Aramil and Stormclaw
- [X] Grove
-- [X] Valahuir Aunrith
--- [X] Valahuir should cast the spell that he believes would most efficiently and capably provide support for the Sea-Wolves against the nature spirits (without exposing them to significant risk of collateral damage), then focus on destroying the Spirit-Grove.
- [X] Reserves
-- [X] Fanriel
--- [X] Physician, heal thyself
- [X] Assassin-Hunting
-- [X] Scarloc's Archers
--- [X] Scarloc's Archers should try to pressure and ultimately eliminate the enemy archer who shot Fanriel. We believe them to be in the rear but, if this archer is a Beastman, Scarloc and his Archers will know how they fight as well as or better than Fanriel and none of them have poison clouding their minds; he should use his judgement.
 
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I just think we shouldn't give Aramil any support at all, and that if we do it shouldn't be the Fireclaws. Aramil seems capable enough of handling the chimera by himself and doesn't want the help besides. In addition, involving ranged fire has a real chance of doing more harm than good in that fight due to a risk of friendly fire if we roll poorly, per word of god. If we had no other targets at all than it may be worth considering, but at this point it just seems like a very inefficient use of our resources to use the Fireclaws for a fight that Aramil doesn't want the help at and where there's increased risk of friendly fire when there are so many other targets they could be aimed at.
Aramil's response after the first time he fought the chimera was to be very nervous about the prospect of fighting it again. I trust him when something is nasty enough that he puts his pride aside and acts worried.
 
He didn't sound nervous about fighting it though?
"What happened?" you ask.

Aramil's expression is impassive, aloof as ever. He glances down at you from the saddle with the regal disdain.

"The Beastmen have a Chimera," he says coolly, as if commenting on the weather.

You feel a chill run down your spine. Chimera are among the most fearsome monsters produces by the mutating powers of Chaos. Similar to a Manticore but the size of a house, with leathery wings and three heads, most commonly a ram, a lion and a dragon.

You meet Aramil's gaze, the question forming on your lips even before you voice it. "Did you kill it?"

Aramil sniffs, lifting his chin in that familiar way of his, his tone tinged with wounded pride.

"I wounded it," he says curtly, almost defensive. "It will remember me."

That, at least, is no small thing. For one to face a Chimera and survive- wound it, drive it off -is a feat worthy of song and legend.

Stormclaw gives a low growl, his talons digging into the blood-soaked soil. With a beat of his mighty wings, he leaps skyward, kicking up dust, gore, and scraps of broken armor in his wake. Aramil says no more. He simply rises with his beast, vanishing into the treetops with a rush of wind and falling leaves.
That update even mentions that he was very nonchalant about it, comparing it to someone talking about the weather, and he didn't seem in anyway hesitant about charging it just now.
 
[X] Plan: Steady and True (Assassin-Hunting Variant)
This plan is not bad, by approximation we can arrive at a convergence...
- if we are sending Scarloc assassin-hunting, Valahuir should be able to burn down the Grove in peace...
- so the Ogres can stay at the centre
- which means the Fireclaws are less indispensable there, and I am still inclined to send them on the right
- IMO we need Valahuir to buff Aramil, or ourselves to heal Stormclaw. See below:

"I wounded it," he says curtly, almost defensive. "It will remember me."
You and I read that section very differently.
Agreeing with @Fouredged Sword here.
 
This plan is not bad, by approximation we can arrive at a convergence...
- if we are sending Scarloc assassin-hunting, Valahuir should be able to burn down the Grove in peace...
- so the Ogres can stay at the centre
- which means the Fireclaws are less indispensable there, and I am still inclined to send them on the right
- IMO we need Valahuir to buff Aramil, or ourselves to heal Stormclaw. See below:
That sounds like a decent compromise (presuming you meant that the Ogres stay at the front) - do you want to write up the plan or shall I?
 
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That sounds like a decent compromise (presuming you meant that the Ogres stay at the front) - do you want to write up the plan or shall I?
I'd still prefer for Scarloc to hunt down that Bray-Shaman first.

While the Sea Guard know their job, killing Beastmen is Scarloc's specialty and he actually did bring the head of one Shaman before this all started.
 
Mmm, fair enough - poor argument on my part, though I will note that Scarloc's Archers did demonstrate skill at targeting enemy weak points against the Chaos Spawn. Striking the various mutated eyes and mouths and the rot wracking the treeman should not be a problem for them.
For evidence of tabletop unreliability, on said tabletop, Scarloc leads a unit of Scouts, not Waywatchers.
 
I'd still prefer for Scarloc to hunt down that Bray-Shaman first.

While the Sea Guard know their job, killing Beastmen is Scarloc's specialty and he actually did bring the head of one Shaman before this all started.
Hmm... Yeah, okay - as dangerous as the assassin could be, the Bray-Shaman could be a major threat to our formation in any number of ways other than just a collapse in the chain of command.

This would mean that the Sea Guard wouldn't have a great deal of extra utility on the left flank. Few different things they could do - stay in reserve (and shield Fanriel and Valahuir from the assassin); target the Chimera (which they could probably do while shielding Fanriel and Valahuir from the assassin but would also risk drawing the Chimera's attention towards the ground); support the Irongulls against the Ungors (which might also suppress the assassin); or target the Treeman (which I suspect people aren't going to go for).
 
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For evidence of tabletop unreliability, on said tabletop, Scarloc leads a unit of Scouts, not Waywatchers.
While Scarloc's Archers are Scouts in 2nd and 4th editions, in the End Times they consist of all three types of Wood Elf archers (Glade Guard, Deepwood Scouts and Waywatchers). And yes, the End Times are cringe, but I'm not above using them when they address topics poorly covered elsewhere or self-contained little additions to lore, like the little "notable units" blurbs, which are what got us things like the Silverin Guard or the Knights of Tor Gaval.

Considering their lore emphasizes just how elite Scarloc's Archers are (Specifically "Far better shots than any found on Ulthuan or Naggaroth"), me not wanting to juggle three different unit types, and in order to make them stand out from other mercenaries, I elected to make them all Waywatchers.
 
Is it possible to ask Scarloc to have his archers deal with the shaman while he himself looks out for the assassin? A group of Waywatchers should be able to pincushion a Bray Shaman and his escorts even if they take a bit longer without Scarloc, and Scarloc as a named elite unit seems best suited to find and countersnipe the assassin. Just tell him that the assassin exists and hunts the leadership, Scarloc should be familiar enough with Beastmen to know the best way to counter the assassin.

As they say the reward for good work is more work, and he and his archers did very good work against the Chaos Spawn.
 
This would mean that the Sea Guard wouldn't have a great deal of extra utility on the left flank. Few different things they could do - stay in reserve (and shield Fanriel and Valahuir from the assassin
That's not a bad idea.

The Sea Guard with their shields can provide a solid 360 wall to hide behind in order to cast spells or heal. The Swordmasters could probably do the same by twirling their greatswords, but they are more useful against the spirits due to having magical weapons, that don't need a recharge. Once Valahuir starts burning the grove, the assassin might find him a tempting target.

The Fireclaws have some spearmen as well, but they are probably busy protecting the sharpshooters.
 
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[X] Plan: Flexible and assassin-proof
[X] Plan: Steady and True (Original)
[X] Plan: Steady and True (Assassin-Hunting Variant)
 
[X] Plan: Protect Us!
- [X] Centre
-- [X] The Northern Sons
-- [X] Imperial Ogres
-- [X] Butchers
-- [X] Mawguard
-- [X] The Fireclaws of Vaul
--- [X] The Fireclaws' marksmen and headhunters should focus on the Treeman first. Unless the line is faltering against the remainder, they should then move on to other priority targets, preferring the three major nature spirits and the Chimera. If they sight the archer who shot Fanriel, they should seek to eliminate them.
- [X] Left Flank
-- [X] De Jonge Bokken
-- [X] Scarloc's Archers
--- [X] Scarloc's Archers should focus on the Bray-Shaman. Unless the line is faltering against the remainder, they should then move on to other priority targets, like the Beastlord (according to Scarloc's judgement). If they sight the archer who shot Fanriel, they should seek to eliminate them.
- [X] Right Flank
-- [X] The Seawolves
-- [X] The Lightfangs
--- [X] The Swordmasters specifically.
- [X] Rear
-- [X] The Irongulls
- [X] Canopy
-- [X] Aramil and Stormclaw
- [X] Grove
-- [X] Valahuir Aunrith
- [X] Reserves
-- [X] Fanriel
--- [X] Physician, heal thyself
-- [X] The Lightfangs
--- [X] The Sea Guard is to protect both Fanriel and Valahuir with a wall of shields from all sides to prevent another assassination atempt.

My version of the plan.
 
Observation on the assassin: in the first battle we did not get more than one snipe (against the leader of the Irongulls), so I suppose the Arrow of Chaos takes some prep time. Otherwise, why not snipe us, or snipe Holsgart when he was pulling a miracle of Sigmar standing on a rock, or even just the Sea Guard that went to relieve the left? IMO for one brief turn, we are safe.

Meanwhile we have a major problem: three fronts (front, left and right) have spirits and would benefit from having magical damage, but our sources are a) The Butchers already busy at the frontline, b) Valahuir with Flaming Sword of Rhuin, c) the Swordmasters.
While not immediately, someone experienced should go hunt down the assassin at the back, otherwise it's a Black Arrow at the most inopportune moment.

So... Fireclaws to take down the Treeman, which allows the Ogres to be delayed by uprooting the Grove. Once finished they will return to the center and join their Butchers.
All the Lightfangs go left. The Sea Guard is on Shaman-sniping duty, the Swordmasters provide magical damage.
After throwing a Glittering Robe on Aramil and Stormclaw, Valahuir goes on the right, to give Scarloc's Archers Flaming Sword of Rhuin. This will mean a swift end for the Major Nature Spirits, so the Archers will then rotate to the back, to relieve the rearguard and hunt down the assassin.
Fanriel expects to go left, to join the Lightfangs and duel the Beastlord, but we will see.

[X] Plan: Out of the Box
- [X] Centre
-- [X] The Northern Sons
-- [X] Butchers
-- [X] Mawguard
-- [X] The Fireclaws of Vaul
--- [X] The Fireclaws' marksmen and headhunters should focus on the Treeman first. Unless the line is faltering against the remainder, they should then move on to other priority targets, preferring the three major nature spirits and the Chimera.
- [X] Left Flank
-- [X] De Jonge Bokken
-- [X] The Lightfangs
--- [X] The Sea Guard should focus on the Bray-Shaman first.
- [X] Right Flank
-- [X] The Seawolves
-- [X] Valahuir Aunrith: he should cast Glittering Robe to protect Aramil&Stormclaw, then go to the right flank to cast Flaming Sword of Rhuin on Scarloc's archers and give support.
-- [X] Scarloc's archers: focus on the Greater Corrupted Nature Spirits. When they are all fallen, rotate to the back to hunt the Ungor Assassin Champion.
- [X] Rear
-- [X] The Irongulls: they will need to hold until relieved by the Archers
- [X] Canopy
-- [X] Aramil and Stormclaw (buffed by Glittering Robe)
- [X] Grove
-- [X] Imperial Ogres
- [X] Reserves
-- [X] Fanriel
--- [X] Physician, heal thyself

I went to check the spells in Blackout's encyclopedia, and Valahuir can either protect himself with Cascading Fire Cloak, or he can protect others (like Aramil) with the Metal spell Glittering Robe.
Cascading Fire-Cloak - A shield of flame appears around the wizard, scorching nearby foes who dares to approach. Arrows and small projectiles are turned to ash.
Glittering Robe - Shaping a sigil of power, the wizard conjures cloaks of steely scales to armour a group of his allies.
 
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