From the Hidden City (Warhammer Lizardmen Temple-City Quest)

EVA-Saiyajin · Mar 22, 2025

CuttleFish2.0 said:
Alhuanti is noted as using Ulgu and Qu'ahn'Oh studies daemons in particular, but beyond that, no these slann have no solid traits or personalities at the moment. They'll get some when they show up in the narrative. Though this does remind me to update the listing of characters for the slann.

Show up in the narrative beyond providing a prophecy and helping teach Skink Priests you mean, like something more personal?

CuttleFish2.0 · Mar 22, 2025

EVA-Saiyajin said:
Show up in the narrative beyond providing a prophecy and helping teach Skink Priests you mean, like something more personal?

Correct.

EVA-Saiyajin · Mar 22, 2025

I've collected GM statements outside of updates on various subjects so that people can more easily look things up. It may in time include bits from updates.

It will probably remain in this broad quote format to make it easier to CTRL F stuff.

GM's official Statements on Matters Many

Great Catastrophe events:

CuttleFish2.0 said:
Other 3rd generation too, as the various Temple-Cities fell during the Great Catastrophe most were able to evacuate in relatively good order. Southlands weren't as badly hit as Lustria was, but they were also all universally newer and less well developed so it was sort of a wash initially. Of course that also meant the place they were falling back to wasn't as capable of resisting despite not being quite as hard pressed. Then you lost some in the fighting.

CuttleFish2.0 said:
EVA-Saiyajin said:
@CuttleFish2.0
Is this what killed half the Slann from the Polar Gates collapsing?

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Generally? Yes, in the sense that the world being submerged into the aethyr/warp/sea of souls/etc. led to hordes of Chaos daemons battering down the doors of every temple-city during which a great many slann died.

Directly, maybe a few. But only for those engaged with very specific magic at the time. Probably not more than two or three in the entire world. Though others would have been caught the... uh energetic results of certain sensitive magical phenomena at the time.

CuttleFish2.0 said:
Before coming Zlatlan Wik'keer'mal rarely had the same attendants from decade to decade. Then once he was in Zlatlan he was working first to expand the Geomantic Web in the Southlands (eventually to move beyond, further east) then very suddenly managing the greatest disaster that had ever faced the Lizardmen and helping to organize the fighting retreat of 7 other Temple-Cities across a continent, fending off attacks on his own city, while simultaneously sending what few resources could be spared across the ocean to Lustria which was facing an even greater assault.

It's only really been feasible in the last six centuries and for many of those he was also afflicted by lethargy that saw him asleep more than he was awake, some centuries he didn't wake but for a handful of years.

CuttleFish2.0 said:
Chupayotl falls in -3894. Great Catastrophe ends sometime in -4421/4420, but the Southland Lizardmen were pushed back to Zlatlan sometime before -5000 and then some very weird things happened. Technically speaking it may not quite qualify as having been 'two or more millennia' by a strict reading of a calendar, but time ran a little strange a points during everything for you guys. So, you know...
Or I was just being fanciful in my writing.

Pre-Catastrophe stuff:

CuttleFish2.0 said:
Yes, but no. 'Deep magic' was used for larger, slower magic casting (which was a lot of what the slann did even early on), but in terms of combat magic the slann were using something closer to Elementalism. Though an Elementalist from a more modern period of time would hardly recognize what they were doing; both because it was a much more refined/advanced version of the cobbled together magic humans were/will be capable of, and because the magical conditions of the world were quite different. How direct interactions between the First Spawning and the Old Ones themselves were is something of mystery even to other slann.

CuttleFish2.0 said:
Access to the Paths of the Old Ones was never 'fully extended' to the Southlands. You could still theoretically access them, it would just take significant amounts of magical oomph and you'd be more likely to end up not quite where you wanted at the end of the journey. Plus yes, some not insignificant amount of danger.

There are a lot of things that the Lizardmen did before the Great Catastrophe that were... good enough stop gap measures waiting more long term solutions to take over. Eventually. But when your hammer is as wonderfully versatile as magic with the seemingly endless reserve of the intact Geomantic Web to call on, well proverbs about nails don't seem so ominous.

CuttleFish2.0 said:
In the past? Anything you can think of practically. Before/during the Great Catastrophe you fought dragons, dragon-ogres, fimir, random one-off horrors, primitive tribes of humans, orcs, and other things since wiped from the face of the world by your own efforts. Some of those things flew, whether on wings or by magic and even on a few scattered occasions primitive technology. You've faced everything from mobs of wild animals to well organized armies who could field crude artillery.

Again most of which you actively sought out to kill.

Ability to get more Slann:

CuttleFish2.0 said:
For Learning actions sure. Though I'll be upfront and say you won't be getting anymore Slann for a while.

Can Slann Runecraft?

CuttleFish2.0 said:
Given that it's an entirely new branch of study for you, you have no idea. Maybe.

Slight correction; though Rune magic was developed in the 'presence' of and with the cooperation of the slann, it is actually a development of the Ancestor Gods themselves. Based somewhat upon your glyphs, but still very much a product of dwarfen minds and souls and traditions.

CuttleFish2.0 said:
. As for whether or not Wik'keer'mal can do Dwarfen Runecraft? No. Because that specifically relies on drawing on the 'Glittering Realm' and Dwarf belief in specific ways. But... well, I there has been a personal action since the first turn to do some thinky-thinking on the various solutions, methods, and shortcuts both the elves and the dwarfs developed under your tutelage.

Why didn't Lizardmen have ships before?

CuttleFish2.0 said:
Zlatlan does not have a harbor, it is near the coast but not on it and the Lizardmen have never needed anything so crude as a physical vehicle to traverse the world at will. Why with the Geomantic Web covering nearly a quarter of the world a Slann could at will move between any of the Temple-Cities with an army, and in the very very rare instances when it was necessary to say ford a river that same Slann could in a matter of minutes conjure a bridge out of magic by drawing on that same Web even at great physical remove.

Travelling about in primitive constructions of wood and fiber, pulled along by naught but wind or the muscle power of fighting troops? Inefficient. Purely the province of warmbloods. Lizardmen have better methods for all that nonsense without fussing about with currents, waterlines, and navigation charts. All that junk. Just... as soon as they put this pile of brick back together. Boy that sure is a big pile of bricks.

What happens to Zlatlan when Wik'keer'mal is asleep?

CuttleFish2.0 said:
Zlatlan continues to function, though due to the nature of Lizardman society, the pace of activity takes a dive. Saurus, Kroxigors, and Skinks all enter into a sort of holding pattern. They'll undertake repairs on things like walls and address problems, but their solutions will generally tend towards patching over a problem rather than proactively seeking out a way to solve the issue - if the food issue becomes dire enough they'll just kill off a bunch of your bestiary rather than establish a more reliable food source by say setting up a port where fishing vessels regularly go out, after all if there were intended to be a structure there the Slann would have told them, since so long as a population remains its numbers can be brought up later.

As for turns where Wik'keer'mal is totally asleep, currently that won't happen. In the future... well fully freeing the Slann of their lethargy won't be happening any time soon so it could happen.

Elves and Lizardmen prior to Great Catastrophe/Wik'keermal's Elvish students:

CuttleFish2.0 said:
Elven knowledge of Lizardmen is a strange, fractured affair. Personal contact with Slann in particular and Lizardmen in general before the fall of the polar gates fell into two categories; one, where certain elves of extreme magical talent and intellect were spirited away to be taught the secrets of the cosmos in secret, and two, where adventurous elves (like Aenarion) left the safety of Ulthuan to explore the incredibly dangerous world and happened to have a run in with (and perhaps even fight alongside) patrols and/or armies of the Lizardmen. There was never widespread contact. But stories got carried back and so there are some, scattered and incomplete fragments of knowledge about Lizardmen available to the elves. Whether any particular individual or group will be aware of them is chancy.

I'm comfortable saying this because this is information Wik'keer'mal himself would either know or have deduced with rapidity. Though the program of specific and accelerated training had ended long before the gates fell the Slann had not stopped observing the progress of the projects the Old Ones had entrusted to them. Then everything went promptly to shit.

CuttleFish2.0 said:
The very very very basic format of how both the elven and dwarf Slann training camps went is; Old Ones create/modify species into dwarfs and elves, then assign task of getting them up to snuff to Slann, Slann observe for a long period of time and select extremely talented examples of their race and teach them lots of neat tricks about the world (if you see these types of rocks dig down to find shiny, apply heat to this type of rock, these plants are good for making food with, these animals produce lots of meat, this is how magic works at a very basic level, etc). There were several successive repetitions until shortly before the Chaos showed up to ruin everything.

Though after the first few repetitions it was much less rote lessons and more 'we're going to explore this topic for a few decades, I'll keep you from killing yourself and you figure shit out.'

CuttleFish2.0 said:
Pretty much the only location you know of in the place is something called the Forge of the Old Ones, which was connected with some of the uplift efforts Wik'keer'mal and others undertook. But it was long ago abandoned as those efforts tapered off.

CuttleFish2.0 said:
Wik'keer'mal doesn't really know how Thyriol felt about him, it wasn't something he concerned himself with. As for his attitude towards Caledor, there was never any altercations or incidents between the two of them that he was aware of. Mehane was long done with her teaching by the time Thyriol rolled in and Wik'keer'mal didn't get the chance to teach her daughter so he doesn't really have any way to guess beyond general loyalty because she was his nominal ruler.

CuttleFish2.0 said:
The isolated Old One facilities in Albion were where the teaching was done, and after he went to take charge of Zlatlan. There was never any reason for Wik'keer'mal to go to the place, especially when the memories of the 5th Spawning were readily available, well as far as such things go at least. He's seen much of its environs through scrying and other such methods, it was part of the long term observations the slann were conducting.

CuttleFish2.0 said:
Early on in the process of uplifting the Dwarfs and Elves there was a long time when neither species live much longer. Before they developed their major modes of living/got given an island paradise.

Just because you can theoretically live for centuries doesn't stop a troll from chewing your head off because you wandered into its path looking food to feed your tribe for the next few weeks. And without those extra centuries elves are just slight taller and faster humans and dwarfsa re slightly shorter and tougher humans (edit: anatomically speaking, the architecture of their souls and their psychologies are still vastly different). Developing a unique magical tradition based on the fundamental social, psychological, and aethyric characteristics of a species that will take centuries to pay off is... kinda what Wik'keer'mal specializes in.

What falls under "construct"?

CuttleFish2.0 said:
Constructs in this case refers to semi-autonomous or autonomous magical entities; things like the dwarfs Rune Golems, wizard familiars, certain sorts of spirits, Nehekharan Uhsabti and other statuary, Chaos Dwarf Hellcannons, and even many undead. While there is overlap with the Geomantic Web, hence why this action gives you a chance to gain traits regarding it, it is fairly narrow.

Old Ones:

CuttleFish2.0 said:
No, the general domains of the Old Ones are known to you (any that aren't specified by canon are for the moment intentionally left blank for filling in later, but I've been thinking hard since I knew what you were getting form the Cleansing of Nahuantl).

Tepok is the Feathered Serpent, the Inscrutable. Invoked to protect against harmful magic. Yuxa, by comparison, is associated with the actual casting of and manipulation of magic. Yuxa is also associated with Coatl's alongside Tepok.

CuttleFish2.0 said:
Though, as to Old Ones that would be... associated with the metaphysical 'cost' of taking a life; I would look to Caxuatn who is also called the Eater of Souls, or Itzl whose purview also covers 'Justice.'

CuttleFish2.0 said:
I adore what you've done for the "character" of the individual Old Ones, where do you get the idea Potec had a particular forge?

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Click to shrink...

Because the notion of Potec having 'a forge' and 'a hammer' which can be ritualistically referred to is metaphysically useful. Whether or not such objects or locations actually ever existed in reality, the idea of them is magically powerful.

CuttleFish2.0 said:
So far as slann like Wik'keer'mal are concerned such things have always been part of the Old Ones. They just happen to know that whether or not Potec ever had an actual 'Forge' matters a lot less than the fact that the idea of Potec's Forge exists and is a useful lever to pull on when doing magic. If pressed the slann would probably agree that the idea of 'creating' new... mytho-narratives for the Old Ones is possible; they would not necessarily be eager to try.

CuttleFish2.0 said:
EVA-Saiyajin said:
Actually speaking of shadows @CuttleFish2.0 who has greater prominence/importance in Xlanhuapec, Tzunki or Huanchi?
Tzunki. Xlanhuapec's mists are... formidable in a way that do not align with Huanchi, there is a more elemental tack to the Mists which wreath the temple-city than one would associated with the Jaguar.

Coatls

CuttleFish2.0 said:
Alas, there are no known Coatl anywhere but Lustria.

Edit: Coatl have... semi-consistent territories in Lustria and can be actively communicated with, but their 'part' in the Plan (like most of the Plan) is unknown in any but the most general sense (they have one, and it has to do with magic and Geomancy).

Dwarves prior to Great Catastrophe/Wik's Dwarven students:

CuttleFish2.0 said:
More Valaya than Grungni or Thungni. As for whether or not Wik'keer'mal can do Dwarfen Runecraft? No. Because that specifically relies on drawing on the 'Glittering Realm' and Dwarf belief in specific ways. But... well, I there has been a personal action since the first turn to do some thinky-thinking on the various solutions, methods, and shortcuts both the elves and the dwarfs developed under your tutelage.

CuttleFish2.0 said:
Not from Thyriol.

If you're asking me...

Grungni
Valaya
Gazul
Thungni

With a heavier focus towards Valaya.

CuttleFish2.0 said:
The very very very basic format of how both the elven and dwarf Slann training camps went is; Old Ones create/modify species into dwarfs and elves, then assign task of getting them up to snuff to Slann, Slann observe for a long period of time and select extremely talented examples of their race and teach them lots of neat tricks about the world (if you see these types of rocks dig down to find shiny, apply heat to this type of rock, these plants are good for making food with, these animals produce lots of meat, this is how magic works at a very basic level, etc). There were several successive repetitions until shortly before the Chaos showed up to ruin everything.

Though after the first few repetitions it was much less rote lessons and more 'we're going to explore this topic for a few decades, I'll keep you from killing yourself and you figure shit out.'

CuttleFish2.0 said:
Pretty much the only location you know of in the place is something called the Forge of the Old Ones, which was connected with some of the uplift efforts Wik'keer'mal and others undertook. But it was long ago abandoned as those efforts tapered off.

CuttleFish2.0 said:
Early on in the process of uplifting the Dwarfs and Elves there was a long time when neither species live much longer. Before they developed their major modes of living/got given an island paradise.

Just because you can theoretically live for centuries doesn't stop a troll from chewing your head off because you wandered into its path looking food to feed your tribe for the next few weeks. And without those extra centuries elves are just slight taller and faster humans and dwarfsa re slightly shorter and tougher humans (edit: anatomically speaking, the architecture of their souls and their psychologies are still vastly different). Developing a unique magical tradition based on the fundamental social, psychological, and aethyric characteristics of a species that will take centuries to pay off is... kinda what Wik'keer'mal specializes in.

Other Magics:

CuttleFish2.0 said:
Divine magic, no, that's not something you have experience with. If/when it develops it will be a result of the belief system of the Vohlu and how they view the divine.

Animism
By definition, from Merriam-Webster; "attribution of conscious life to objects in and phenomena of nature or to inanimate objects." In essence a system of beliefs where animals, natural phenomena, objects, locations, and plants, all have souls... or at least, can, have souls.

This is sort of what the Vohlu already believe at the moment, though their belief structure isn't quite so organized or developed as the animist belief systems of earth; they are relatively young as a people. Broadly they believe that there are 'spirits' that can inhabit a wide range of things and that some of these 'spirits' are representative of or materially present within certain real things, i.e., that Njem is the sun and Njat is the moon and Lashu is the other moon. Individual animals also have spirits. Spirits can also be in certain places. They are also sometimes also the dead of the tribe/band.

As a system of magic, animism focuses on binding/contracting/making pacts with the various spirits that 'naturally' exist. Or creating them when they don't.

Such 'agreements,' when performed with normal or only marginally magical animals (giant spiders, griffons, basilisks, etc.) are similar to familiars in nature. They could be permanent or temporary. Involve a certain amount of empowerment of both sides of the magical link.

With more powerful entities (dragons, ancient tree spirits, ancestor spirits, etc.) are generally only temporary and involve an explicit exchange; where the human would promise some sort of favor, give up something of magical value, or make some other form of sacrifice and the 'spirit' would lend some of their magical power to the human in the form of say a spell or a blessing or some sort of magical trinket or a promise of aid.

Groups of humans could make more permanent agreements those same spirits (or greater) for protection of a specific place or for specific blessings over a group/location.

Lesser spirits, below even animal, could be bound into objects to enchant those objects with magical effects or consumed for magical growth (quickly for a temporary boost, slowly for steadier, permanent growth). Often these sorts of spirits would in fact be created by the human in question, drawing magical energy out of the aethyr and shaping it for their needs.

For all of this, exact effects would depend on the kinds of spirits involved, hence the low versatility. But the immediate familiarity would allow the Vohlu to quickly grasp and start attaining reasonable levels of mastery over the practice even if the higher ends of potential are constrained by available 'spirits.'

Geomancy
Those technologies with the most direct, practical, application towards Geomancy would be;
Stoneworking
Woodworking
Mathematics
Astronomy
Forestry

'Best' is a vaguer concept.

CuttleFish2.0 said:
Geomancy doesn't do many 'spells' in the sense of waving your hands and having a fireball appear, but it does a lot of magical effects based on infrastructure, geoforming, and architecture.

CuttleFish2.0 said:
It would actually have very low versatility, for two different, but interconnecting, reasons; first because 'Petty Magic' is the catchall term for spells that are usable by any Wind aligned wizard no matter what Wind they make use of, they sort of exist outside of the Eight Winds of magic, but they interact differently with other traditions of magic, and in order to function they have very sharp upper limits on their capability. Petty magic can heal minor wounds, scratches and small bites from say a fox or a small rodent, but will simply not work on larger wounds or wounds that have been left to start healing on their own for too long (hours). Secondly, Hedge Magic is a category very tightly tied to the Empire's Colleges of Magic and seeks to catch everyone who isn't using a graduate of those colleges and can't force the Colleges to sit up and take notice by dint of obvious power. Hedge Magic a random assortment of whatever a person born with magical talent could figure out on their own without getting lynch and/or exploding into gribblies.

On the first that would be Animism, empowering and contracting with extant spirits (or creating new ones when you can't find one that will do what you want).

Alchemy meanwhile straddles a line between actual chemistry and magic and would have required you take both Herbalism and Poisons to be an option.

Theoretically? Yes. Practically, no; the amount of ghyran needed would be enormous and require constant upkeep from more slann than currently live on the continent, you would also need a ready amount of powerful tree spirits of the kind that arise from trees/groves that have existed undisturbed, saturated by magic, for centuries.

Unfortunately, no. While the basic notion is... possible, its more the sort of thing a slann can get up to rather than humans just starting out with magic. Cutting out the ability to do magic is, relatively simple so far as messing about with the soul. Not easy. But pretty simple, it's a bit like cauterizing a wound.

Taking a part of a soul, lopping it off grafting it onto another soul is much more complicated. And even when successful can have unexpected consequences.

CuttleFish2.0 said:
Yes, see the Dragon-Sphinxes examined earlier this turn. Elementalism makes frequent use of animated constructs, though they are not very long lasting in most cases. Animism, Wind Magic, and Druidism can do it readily enough.

It would not be a tradition all on its own though.

There are a number of ways to accomplishing what you describe with the 'skull helm idea' that would not rely on soul surgery, they would have their own drawbacks and fall under different magical traditions. Wind Magic can do something like that as could Geomancy. Psionics could definitely do it. Animism too. If all you want is to pass on skills/knowledge through magical means basically every tradition has some sort of option somewhere; whether those methods are safe, effective, useful, or what have you is a different question.

Enchanting is not its own magical tradition, most of the traditions available allow for it in some manner. Unless you're a dawi, descended from Thugni; then you're a runesmith.

So if you come up with a way of enchanting sufficiently interesting/unique/all-encompassing it might qualify as its own magical tradition.

Lizardmen morale/cowardice

CuttleFish2.0 said:
Yes, in a certain sense. Saurus, skinks, and kroxigor are all capable of feeling intense fear and have natural instincts to preserve their own lives. But. And this is a large but, it tends not to happen in battle because larger numbers of their fellows has a dampening affect on those instincts; so even a front line of skinks will sustain much heavier casualties than the same number of humans or elves or even dwarfs would.

In fact, the battle that just happened was one of the few situations where 'routing' would actually be likely. Because the numbers of troops on your side were so low and because your infantry was entirely composed of skinks,if you'd started taking heavy casualties your troops probably would have broken and routed.

As for whether there's a stigma. Well that's a bit of a complicated question; under most circumstances no, because the conditions that are going to lead to routing generally mean the forces in question have already been thoroughly defeated and thus most other Lizardmen are going to see it more like force preservation than cowardice. But, if you had a skink breaking 'randomly?' Then, sort of. In that case the assumption would be that they were 'defective' somehow or had be cursed by Chaos in some way, which could easily mean execution.

Mirror-Shield of Quetzl:

CuttleFish2.0 said:
It can cover a length of about 30 Saurus at a depth of two or three ranks. Rather than be limited by an absolute number of things it can reflect at once, it's primary drawback is that the more stuff (and more powerful stuff) it deflect the longer it takes to recharge for another go. So if you ti deflects a few hurled stones it might be ready to go again in like fifteen seconds, but if it reflects a hundred arrows it might take a couple minutes before it can be used again.

Also it has to be activated, it doesn't operate automatically, which means that if its wielder is caught unawares they'll still get hit.

Zlatlan population:

CuttleFish2.0 said:
Population numbers... you started out with a little under 50,000 Lizardmen in total in Zlatlan. Heavily skewed towards Skinks (like hilarious skewed). Replacement rates vary, because when fatalities are low all the (operational) Spawning Pools in the entire city only throw out maybe a few dozen newly spawned Lizardmen in a decade, but when they spike you can see a single pool loosing a thousand in a single year. After Nahuantl for instance there was a spawning of about ~400 Saurus, ~1000 Skinks, and ~200 Kroxigors over a two year period - seemingly from a combination of both the bodies you lost and the surge of Geomantic Power you received.

CuttleFish2.0 said:
You started with around 50k and now have somewhere a little over 60k. Peg it at ~20-30% growth in the nearly 4 centuries you've been controlling Zlatlan.

Spawning Pools:

CuttleFish2.0 said:
Population numbers... you started out with a little under 50,000 Lizardmen in total in Zlatlan. Heavily skewed towards Skinks (like hilarious skewed). Replacement rates vary, because when fatalities are low all the (operational) Spawning Pools in the entire city only throw out maybe a few dozen newly spawned Lizardmen in a decade, but when they spike you can see a single pool loosing a thousand in a single year. After Nahuantl for instance there was a spawning of about ~400 Saurus, ~1000 Skinks, and ~200 Kroxigors over a two year period - seemingly from a combination of both the bodies you lost and the surge of Geomantic Power you received.

How the Pools know when you've taken those kinds of casualties isn't clear, even to the Slann and will be an avenue of investigation once you get to Infrastructure Level 1. Not a quick one either. Though nowhere near as long as the Sequence.

Still repairing Pools does have immediate mechanical effects because the spawning seem to prioritize things; you have a pretty severe lack of a lot of the mid-to-low level specialists that help keep a temple-city in good repair. Masons, architects, chiefs, etc. For the simple reason that they were needed on the walls commanding, repairing, and firing weapons at the endless tide of daemons bearing down on the city and so took heavy casualties, this is in part why some things are starkly limited (like wall repairs) whereas other things aren't (like pool work). So repairing Pools will gradually increase your dice pool (sort of), but more importantly it'll raise limits on some things and decrease the overall number of successes needed on others. But you have to remember that for all their advanced magical knowledge the Lizardmen and technical knowledge on many things, they still operate largely at subsistence levels; there's little automation going on in temple-cities, things are produced by hand in artisan fashion you just do things much more efficiently than anyone else because individual Lizardmen have relatively little ego (sort of).

Dwarfs would take a look at the rate one of your weaponsmiths turns out blades and such and salivate. Then they would take a second look at grumble loudly about all sorts of practices unbecoming of a master and go back to feeling smug. But for a second they would be jealous. So, yeah, you're not going to be repopulating cities quickly, but it is an achievable feat.

CuttleFish2.0 said:
As Simon said, you just don't know.

One thing you do know is that Spawning Pools seem to shut down fairly quickly in most cases when temple-cities get heavily damaged (which, for clarity, means significant sections of the city infrastructure outright destroyed or rendered inaccessible); they seem to required a lot of local 'Geomantic Power.'

CuttleFish2.0 said:
As promised, images of the intended layout and of the current progress;

Plan:
Current Progress:

Most of the new spawning pools will less than half the size of even your Temple spawning pools, fractions the size of even your smallest above ground pools. The four largest will only be about the size of the Temple spawning pools. By volume of spawning pool space you'll be adding about a third of your existing pools.

Last damaged spawning pool will be fixed this turn, that was what was behind the countdown for when you had to start Experimental Pool Work.

CuttleFish2.0 said:
This is not true.

From the first update of Experimental Pool Work last turn:

Second Generation slann know how to add pools to a temple-city safely and have done so. Third, Fourth, and Fifth Gen slann all know how to make completely new spawning pools in completely new temple-cities, which is much more straightforward magically that adding them to an existing temple-city.

Orc Reproduction:

CuttleFish2.0 said:
As it's come up I'll head this off at the pass, other threads have gotten into shit for these sorts of subjects and I gave a fair bit of thought to the subject before things got rolling, orcs do not reproduce by spores in the canon of this quest. How they do is not entirely clear to you, but it evidently involves slightly more than the simple presence of orcs.

To step completely out of the limits of in character knowledge and be explicit about things, if I figure out a way of making orcs into something more like people rather than narrative driven designated acceptable murder targets slash narratively convenient exterior threats I'll be taking it. I've done so with other distasteful elements of canon, though those haven't shown up yet, just so I can write in this universe with a modicum of my own sanity intact and not be worrying about bumping up against forum rules on the regular.

Slann vs Elf Natural Magical Ability:

CuttleFish2.0 said:
Yes, but for different reasons. Elves were designed by the Old Ones to be exceptional conduits for the winds in relatively large numbers, their natural instincts let them gather and channel in such ways that the magic actually 'sticks' to them which leads to a sort of compounding property where the more they have to do with certain kinds of magic the more easily and broadly they are able to flex that same magical power. On the other hand, Slann understand magic and have... let's call them multi-threaded, minds that allow them to on the fly perform the sort of immensely complicate calculations involved in the highest tiers of magical acts. They can harness raw amounts of power that would, quite literally, burst an elf into glittering clouds of pure magic but none of that energy 'sticks' to them in the same way it does for an elf. Even Wik'keer'mal isn't attuned to Ghyran the same way an elf mage focused on the wind would be. He can still regularly out perform them in complexity in scope, and simple experience makes up most things in the ease department but casting for all slann is an act of imposing their will on the chaotic elements of ambient magic.

Keeping Slann Safe:

CuttleFish2.0 said:
No, Slann going out in the midst of an army for a particular purpose is one thing, but sending them out to sit in an unsecured location for years on end is not something any of your Lizardmen would accept.

CuttleFish2.0 said:
He explicitly order them to wait else where, obedience to the slann runs deep. Even so ff it had been anywhere but inside Zlatlan they would not have listened.

CuttleFish2.0 said:
Macuiltotec is still a slann. He's not going to be charging into the thick of a melee just because he has a spear.

Tzula-Pec would physically wrestle him into submission before allowing that to happen.

High Magic/Qhyash vs single-wind magic:

Qhyash can do basically anything the magic of a single wind can do... it just often takes more roundabout methods to do them. Now, sometimes that's better because maybe it avoids unwanted side effects - like say creating dhar if you need multiple different effects that are associated with different winds. But there are specific cases where monofocusing on a single wind can get you much more... intricate effects in a specific subject. Let's take Ghyran for example, no particular reason at all, at its highest levels can be used to greatly alter or literally craft new, unique, lifeforms out of whole cloth.

You could do the same with Qhaysh but it would be more complicated and likely take significantly longer and you would necessarily sacrifice certain potential paths by needing to introduce elements of other winds; essentially creating a more balanced animal but one less focused on the aspects that make it stand out. Granted using High Magic would also probably open up other (less dramatic) possibilities. There are trade offs.

Relic Priests:

CuttleFish2.0 said:
Mmm, on the one had yes. Not something really within the capabilities of the slann.

Sort of.

Wik'keer'mal could construct something resembling a slann physically, and even matching a small measure of its mystical power. But, the effort would take several decades (after a likely even longer process of discovering how exactly to do it) and would only be temporary (a decade or two at most at minimum levels of strain, days or hours or even just moments if the spirit of the slann in question exerts themselves).

So, yes there is a potential project in that, but as a warning you would only be able to get up to a 2nd or 3rd Generation slann into it and it would only be able to provide a single slann dice for a turn or two or possibly act as a very powerful tactical weapon. And each time you would need to spend decades of your personal dice on the effort just to create one.

How far can a Slann use Arcane Vassal?

CuttleFish2.0 said:
Basically out to your harbor (which is about two hours walk for a skink along a wide, well leveled, dirt road). Beyond that it's possible to receive sort of... impressions of things through a priest, but things get much muddier very quickly and once the horizon starts to come into play you get nothing.

Zlatlan's Magical Defenses:

CuttleFish2.0 said:
A lot.

Mess up scrying. Reduce impact from direct magical attacks. Sap strength from daemons if they do get inside your walls. Amplify friendly spells. Basically make Zlatlan a very friendly place for the Lizardmen and a distinctly unfriendly place for everything directly infused by the powers of chaos with a measure of their strength.

Post Great Catastrophe/Vortex, pre-quest/Chupayotl sinking stuff:

CuttleFish2.0 said:
Repairing its walls, most of the pools it started with, cleansing the immediate surroundings of serious taint. Dealing with raids by greenskins, beastmen, the occasional daemon band. All of it with much less leeway than you had at the beginning. The Southlands temple-cities were largely bypassed by the bulk of the attentions of Chaos, but the difference between 'largely' and 'completely' is incredibly vast, even at maybe a tenth of the cumulative weight of daemonic presence as Lustria faced you just barely escaped without having actual temples defiled or losing integrity in your sequence of sacred plaques.

CuttleFish2.0 said:
As a very simplified answer; a lot of figuring how to feed all the people now living in Zlatlan and their warbeasts using only the land inside the temple-city, integrating the remnants of 8 temple-cities into Zlatlan, redoing emergency repairs on breached walls, restarting some semblance of more regular industry, cleansing and purifying every inch of the city, organizing and sending out the garrisons to the other temple-cities, figuring out how to feed everyone efficiently, rebuilding enough housing for the population, figuring out how to keep the warbeasts from killing each other and their handlers, and more. All while the slann were more often asleep than they were awake and even when awake could usually be found deep in meditative consultation with the slann in Lustria figuring out how to buttress the Vortex with the Geomantic Web.

Healing Slann/Macuiltotec:

CuttleFish2.0 said:
It did indeed. As before, you could learn to reconstruct fascimiles of slann bodies which means you could by default learn to make new limbs. You could probably even do it just by pumping Macuiltotec up with an inordinate amount of Ghyran and forcing his body to regrow the limb (though with a significantly higher cost associated than similar efforts on non-slann Lizardmen and individual warmbloods). All that said it hasn't been really much of an impediment for the other slann so far.
He also... kinda likes how it makes him look. Or might have other notions on how to address the matter once you hit the next infrastructure level.

Does Zlatlan have a watch-and-relay system?

CuttleFish2.0 said:
Infrastructure like that existed in the past and like the road network you will have future options to reestablish it. You just need to set up the support structure to make it something that isn't horribly time consuming.

Geomantic Web stuff:

CuttleFish2.0 said:
Some of that will become clearer when the turn is up (eventually, there's a lot of stuff going on in the background that I was figuring out last night) but not all temples will have clear and immediately noticeable effects; mostly their primary job is to form the core of the actual Geomantic Web.

CuttleFish2.0 said:
Access to the Paths of the Old Ones was never 'fully extended' to the Southlands. You could still theoretically access them, it would just take significant amounts of magical oomph and you'd be more likely to end up not quite where you wanted at the end of the journey. Plus yes, some not insignificant amount of danger.

There are a lot of things that the Lizardmen did before the Great Catastrophe that were... good enough stop gap measures waiting more long term solutions to take over. Eventually. But when your hammer is as wonderfully versatile as magic with the seemingly endless reserve of the intact Geomantic Web to call on, well proverbs about nails don't seem so ominous.

CuttleFish2.0 said:
Yes. You can't complete the work in the Geomantic Web before the actual physical architecture is done because then there's nothing for it to latch onto, but that doesn't mean you can't put any work in it - theoretically if you got all 4 successes on one turn and the architecture still weren't done it would waste the last success and you'd be stuck with 3/4 successes.

CuttleFish2.0 said:
Gotcha. Did clearing them contribute to our ability to hit Infrastructure Level 1 in this past turn? And, as we take more actions to sort out the city's geomantic issues and get things unclogged and working better, will we get more information on the role the temples play in mechanical terms?

CuttleFish2.0 said:

You did need a certain minimum of temples up and active to hit it, but you reached it... ~~turn 2 I think?~~ on turn 3. Yes.

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CuttleFish2.0 said:
Not every temple necessarily has an Infrastructure Artifact, and not all that have them have activated.

CuttleFish2.0 said:
Temple-cities are not all that can contribute or be plugged into the Geomantic Web. For example the Guardian Statues of Ancient Gods connect to it and use that power to 'protect' the bay Zlatlan and Nahuantl sit astride. But doing so requires that the structures in question are properly aligned and situated, and have the correct internal structure and glyphs inscribed on them; all things which were largely set aside in the rush to get the harbor up and running, because it wasn't like you could link it up anyway, but now you can. Unfortunately because the work wasn't done at the start it requires some finessing to make sure everything fits correctly and you don't cause snarls in the Web (which could get nasty).

Benefits of doing it are that the harbor has a passive source of magical power to call on for arcane defenses, that it can actually feed energy into the Web with a lot of future development and large scale magical efforts within it's boundaries are much easier (thus easing the construction of your larger ships... which really really really rely on magic to do basically everything).

CuttleFish2.0 said:
EVA-Saiyajin said:
Actually, considering the recent shutdown of the Crossroads of Huanchi, I'm wondering if it would be possible to deactivate Grand Temples with apparatuses that aren't being used in a turn, so as to empower other things, or if that would disrupt the overall functioning of the city-glyph.

Possible, but not something to do on short notice and carries certain risks to the infrastructure in question along with the larger Geomantic Web. If you really need more metaphysical oomph it might be something to consider, but otherwise the pay off would simply not be worth the effort in most cases.

CuttleFish2.0 said:
You cannot 'downgrade' something like the Meditation Sanctum like that no, and more generally the energy of the Geomantic Web is not like a generator supplying a certain current to power on devices. At least not for your more useful/interesting artifacts like the Meditation Sanctum, a lot of lesser utilities do at least seem to operate like that. But for things like the Meditation Sanctum or the Infrastructure Artifacts like the Clinometer of Xhoka its less about how much 'power' they get than metaphysical space that the temple-glyph they are attached to. This is why expanding the Embassy can increase the frequency, because the metaphysical impact of the attached space acts to ease the path of the Meditation Sanctum.

CuttleFish2.0 said:
Geomancy covers a broad swathe of magical techniques; from the sort of magical rituals portrayed in Respect Your Elders that can reshape continents and wipe away cities, to things like what you're seeing here. I'm not 100% clear on what you mean by 'like that,' but in general Geomancy does focus on the steady build up of a spell to a given peak that results in a sudden change. As it utilizes earthbound magic basically exclusively (at least directly) it is not as well suited to more immediate effects as the Winds are.

I keep meaning to put together a sort of primer on the Geomantic Web, but it keeps slipping my mind these last few months and then I get busy. You call it earthbound magic (your use of that term would be somewhat confusing to both elven mages and later human magic users) because it is magical energy that has been quite literally 'bound up in the earth,' and thus been largely stripped many of its Wind specific properties.

Much of what the Web does is take the Winds and transform them into earthbound magic... though back before the breaking of the Polar Gates what it mostly did was transform it back into the Winds for battlefield use. There strict limits to the volume of magic it can handle, hence the need for the Vortex when the Winds started pouring in. Using the earthbound magic of the Web doesn't require an aloof state of cold rationality, in fact one of earthbound magics prime benefits is its lack of reaction to heightened emotional states, that said because of its nature it also requires a lot more patience and intentionality to wield than the Winds. After all it lacks the natural resonance with mental states that makes the Winds so attractive (literally!) in the first place.

I originally planned to include some references to how the slann of Age of Sigmar go about creating their troops, but it never quite fit into anywhere in the action. So basically yes, in principle there should be ways to create veteran lizardmen at will.

While a Ghyran based spell could create something superficially resembling the body of a lizardman... it would not be able to form the soul properly and. Being so suffused in one of the Winds would necessarily make it vulnerable to corruption.

As you see throughout the rest of the updates there is a psychic equivalent of "talking in the ether" as you put it, but it is generally not used for communicating about theory because the more 'conceptual' methods allow for much quicker dissemination of techniques and knowledge. Though not without their own drawbacks.

Imagine a plane, then draw a line extending up or down from the surface of that plane; the line is orthogonal to the plane because it lies outside of the plane, no part of the vector the line describes can be expressed in terms of the plane (well, sort of). Three-dimensionally the easiest example fo orthogonality is time. You can't describe movement in time by describing any vector in a volume of space.

In this case; imagine you have two sheets paper, one laying flat on a table while you hold over it. Now if there were a piece of string glued at either end to one of the pieces paper, it would be 'orthogonal' to both pages. The Geomantic Web is the string. The pages are the material world and the aethyr.

Hope that helps. I wouldn't recommend trying to think about orthogonality in relation to more than two dimensions much, most people (myself included) struggle with it. As far as I know the only visualization is stuff like hypercubes/tesseracts.

CuttleFish2.0 said:
The Froggy Ninja said:
Does that imply that building floating structures would allow us to expand the Web to draw on atmospheric stellar ley lines or are we already tapping those the same way we're tapping deep mantle lines?

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Simon_Jester said:
I think we'd have to build the structures in space above the planet, or at least way up in the atmosphere, like "edge of space, you must be a rocketplane to get this high" high up.

Which seems to be what the Old Ones apparently did with the polar gateways before those got turned into Chaos rifts in the Great Catastrophe.

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CuttleFish2.0 said:

There were good reasons, beyond simple defensibility, that the Skytitans built their castle on the highest peaks they could find.

Such micro-rifts require three conditions, so far as the slann understand (despite the confidence with which they speak, this is still mostly theoretical. Direct observation has thus far proved impossible, even with astral projection); extreme pressure, i.e., >200 GPa, extreme temperature, at least above 4400 C (~8000 F), along with strong and variable magnetic fields.

While warpstone was not unknown before the Great Catastrophe it was nowhere nearly as widespread, it was much less common. Uranium is, at the very least, an extant element that exists distinct from warpstone; beyond that the slann have not had the opportunity (or inclination) to study warpstone closely enough or in large enough quantities to fit it neatly in this theory with high confidence. It does mostly seem to be condensed and materialized dhar, rather than a magic infused or magic producing material.

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CuttleFish2.0 said:
Because the Geomantic Web is active (no matter how weakly), and also just because of how the continents are laid out in the southern hemisphere, the Winds of Magic can't concentrate as heavily as they can elsewhere in the world. Means markedly less magic induced mutations exist given your latitude and, theoretically, a more difficult time for daemons to manifest. But the conditions daemons need to manifest are already far enough outside the norm that its not practically of benefit; it would only show in the long term strategic considerations.

In other words you're no less vulnerable to a daemon invasion than anywhere else at your relative latitude in any immediate sense, but you're in a better position in case said daemonic invasion attempted to siege you out.

CuttleFish2.0 said:
There is a limit; basically anything that has an effect over an area larger than roughly a city-block will have either its effect or duration severely curtailed.

Your Geomantic Web just can't really support doing much more, but within that bound you have a relatively large amount of slack for two reasons; one, Zlatlan is being fed by all the remnants of the Geomantic Web in the Southlands and is the only temple-city drawing anything but the bare minimum and two, 'power' for the Geomantic Web is less a finite resource and more an expression of metaphysical weight. Below certain thresholds (and outside of specific sorts of effects) the draw from any individual piece of infrastructure has only a minor effect on the overall capability of the Geomantic Web to support more pieces of infrastructure. So if the effect you are trying for is... 'mundane' enough you can afford to add a lot of things, but once you start getting either large or more meaningful impacts you'll need to consider whether the Web can support it and for how long.

But, honestly... even if you start proposing truly ridiculous things I won't mind. At worst they might end up scaled down or they might inspire some other more viable idea.

CuttleFish2.0 said:
EVA-Saiyajin said:
Actually, considering the recent shutdown of the Crossroads of Huanchi, I'm wondering if it would be possible to deactivate Grand Temples with apparatuses that aren't being used in a turn, so as to empower other things, or if that would disrupt the overall functioning of the city-glyph.

Possible, but not something to do on short notice and carries certain risks to the infrastructure in question along with the larger Geomantic Web. If you really need more metaphysical oomph it might be something to consider, but otherwise the pay off would simply not be worth the effort in most cases.

CuttleFish2.0 said:
Drawing a distinction between Ghyran the 'shade' of magic that often embodies growth and water and the Wind of Ghyran is possible; the Winds as they exists on Mallus at scale are epiphenomena, consequences of the interaction between the aethyr at the specific locations of the poles. And often a useful tack to take for certain forms of rituals/spells.

It's not so much a matter of nature versus form. Rather... 'mood' might be the closest analogy. Ghyran as it appears in the Web isn't different in kind or degree from the 'Wind of Ghyran,' but there is some difference in the way it... 'expresses' itself. Hopefully we should get to explore questions like this in future updates more in depth.

Prophecies:

CuttleFish2.0 said:
For slann soonish means decades to a century.

Edit: As for the complaints about not being explicit about the meaning of the prophecy... well even for the slann peering into uncertain futures is a tricky business. Half the fun (for me) in the prophecy options come from getting to give you guys vague clues about future potential events without outright telling you and seeing what you can figure out.

CuttleFish2.0 said:
To an extent this is as intended, because number one having you guys hit the prophecy button over and over again and get explicit or near explicit answers is asking me to do a lot of groundwork for uncertain rewards given how early everything is within the universe in question; a lot of the details of things i have to essentially make up out of whole cloth because, Warhammer as a setting isn't much concerned with detailed histories for pretty understandable reasons. If i give you prophecies about canon things there's a large risk of them being... completely butterflied away just by the natural course of the game even without you guys taking any special steps to address them.

So each time you guys hit the prophecy button I have to come up with medium to long term events and arcs that you can reasonably interact with and have an effect while not overburdening myself with work. That means forcing you guys to slow down on that sort of thing, which means making you work a little more for the information. Hence obfuscation. And honestly? I hasn't worked because someone has already pretty much cracked it.

CuttleFish2.0 said:
No? It would have depended on the exact degrees of success rolled. Bare successes probably would have just gotten you the prophecy as is, but more significant successes might've gotten you a different prophecy, or two half-complete prophecies, or something (mmm probably not two half-complete prophecies).

Improving the Fivefold Hive:

CuttleFish2.0 said:
Make a bee with an incredibly lethal sting? It would even die in the attack, hooking into Ghyran's cycle of life theme.

CuttleFish2.0 said:

That would be a path to doing it by evolving Wik'keer'mal's Focus.

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CuttleFish2.0 said:
Second, what do you think of an upgrade which involves aiding his abilities to project himself/his power over longer distances, or at least to better channel his power through distant subordinates. The idea in my head was that it would better allow him to stay in contact with others or exert his influence without having to leave Zlatlan himself, vaguely inspired by that scene where the bees were moving between hives without crossing the intervening space. Maybe it could rely on those subordinates carrying a metaphysical piece of said hive with them. Would this work, or is it too weak/strong

CuttleFish2.0 said:

As for your idea otherwise... I'm not entirely certain I understand what you're asking.

No the bonuses of the Fivefold Hive do not apply to enhancing itself. Mostly because altering it is about manipulating the Winds of Magic rather than seeking to understand or work on a living thing.

Something like you describe is perfectly suited to be the next stage of Wik'keer'mal's focus's development. It wouldn't be the only aspect of the enhancement, but as the major purpose of it is very much suitable.

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Super long-range Slann support:

CuttleFish2.0 said:
@CuttleFish2.0 , can Lord Wik lend a personal support die to such an operation in the form of periodically dropping remote magical bombardment on the orcs from Zlatlan, working through the priests accompanying the army? Or would that involve Lord Wik going out onto the field in person?

CuttleFish2.0 said:

He could certainly do it in person. To do it from Zlatlan would required at least 4 other slann and one of his personal attendants be accompanying the army.

On his own it would be about the equivalent of another howdah with a greatbow.

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CuttleFish2.0 said:

Without the support of the larger Geomantic Web he has to spend a lot more effort on precision aiming, taking into account the curvature of the planet, the local Winds in both locations, and making sure that at no point in that process does anything induce a miscast which doesn't leave a lot for raw power. Even just two more would let you handily turn a small scale battle, but for a full up army vs army conflict four is the minimum. Especially because the greenskins have casters of their own who will take notice and start trying to fuck with you at some point.

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Can Wik'keer'mal use the Disd of Yuxa?

CuttleFish2.0 said:
No, but only because Wik'keer'mal already has a focus, which is in its own way potentially quite powerful (accounting for future upgrades). You can still get an effective 2nd Gen slann by giving it to one of your other 3rd Gens tho.

Dragon Turtle sizes:

CuttleFish2.0 said:
The largest Dragon Turtle known to you - from truly ancient records from a few centuries after the separation of the continent - was roughly twice the size of a stegadon. Most, from what scant encounters your records contain, seem to be only a little larger than a stegadon when fully matured.

Abyssal Exploration Gear range:

CuttleFish2.0 said:
Deep, but not like deep. Not going to put solid numbers to it.

You can safely explore just off the continent shelf a bit for a few moments. Beyond that anyone you send down isn't coming back up.

Dragon Turtle size and image assistance:

Karnax626 said:
Spoiler: Dragon Turtles

@CuttleFish2.0 Is this similar to what you had in mind for the dragon turtles?
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That would be on the bigger end, and the limbs are wrong - think more sea-turtle - but otherwise its not wrong.

Wik and Black Eggs:

CuttleFish2.0 said:
Wik's personal bonus does not apply for the Black Eggs - they're not living in the sense of having cells and such which is what his focus gives him an advantage in.

Metals Lizardmen like:

CuttleFish2.0 said:
Rheameninthys mentioned that it was well received. And yes, if someone comes buy loaded down with tin you will buy it. Hell if some elf comes with a few spare tin utensils or plates you'll buy it - it really is quite valuable to you because bronze is your go to metal for basically everything.

CuttleFish2.0 said:
Gold is your second go to metal. You know of former gold mines but cannot access them without securing your territory. If you were extracting it would not trade it away except in exceptional circumstances. Or to another temple-city that needed it.

Both bronze and gold are very enchantable metals (thought bronze doesn't take well to heavy enchantment) which means you highly favor using them seeing as you have consistent and reliable access to magic users and a magic tradition/infrastructure to enchant items en mass far in excess of even elves relative to your overall population.

CuttleFish2.0 said:
1) Are there any other bronze alloying components we need and don't have?
2) Do we even have a gold mine, and how long can we keep things up at this rate if we don't find a supply?
3) How do we source obsinite and do we have the means to continue supplying that?

CuttleFish2.0 said:

1) Anything mundane you don't have (I am not any particular expert on either industrial or early metallurgy) is substituted with magic, which you have plenty of.
2) There are no currently operable gold mines within Zlatlan's territory, but you know of old mines and existing deposits that could be exploited. you have enough for the next long while, if it's going to be an issue you'll get a warning and ways to address it at least a few turns before it becomes one.
3) You take mundane rock and you apply large amounts of magic to it in very specific ways over many many months. Addressing bottlenecks in your supply was one of the first things you did, and if you start running into problems with obsinite you probably have much bigger, more immediate, problems that need addressing.

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CuttleFish2.0 said:
EVA-Saiyajin said:
That's pretty cool, very Warhammer combining archaic means of records with advanced and metaphysical means of analysis.

What's the significance/purpose of the enchanted gold-bronze plates @CuttleFish2.0 ?
Control, on their own the lenses could 'cut' the grooves in the stone. But it would require active attention from the artisan-priest to control the Winds to correctly 'write,' whereas with the additional pieces of the gold-bronze plates the enchantment takes care of encoding the information and the artisan-priest merely has to let it know what information to encode.

CuttleFish2.0 said:
Inefficient at best is a good way of describing it. Transmuting industrial quantities of metals is risky; when it's small batch quantities the caster in question can usually keep a close enough eye on things and control circumstances enough to avoid to the potential pitfalls, but once you get above a certain amount that becomes increasingly more difficult - requiring more priests - enough so that even for Lizardmen it's highly likely you'll miss something. End up with too many impurities, or metal that's just straight up... wrong somehow. Not an acceptable risk, especially when it's comparatively easier to go out and find it and dig it up. You're rarely lacking in raw muscle power after all, also means your priests can be doing other things - like actually enchanting the bronze you produce and monitoring critical infrastructure.

Obsinite is a big fat glaring exception, largely because even though it sort of resembles mundane obsidian that's basically where the similarities end and thus as something that doesn't exist naturally magic is less snitty about being forced to create it wholesale. A little also goes a lot farther than the same amount of bronze. It's very nature rejects also corruption and obsinite actively absorbs magic as it forms - in fact once you've got a critical mass of it, a significant part of your process involves making sure it stops getting made rather than increasing yield.

CuttleFish2.0 said:
You do have obsinite. Bronze is also not inferior to obsinite to Lizardmen, they have different uses; namely that bronze takes enchantments 'better' than obsinite does (though the latter takes enchantments exceptionally well, the nature of the bronze you produce lends its certain advantages from a magical binding stand point).

Gold, bronze, and obsinite are all bedrock materials for the Lizardmen, not being able to produce even one (barring lack of raw ingredients) would be a much bigger deal. Quite literally crippling without some serious and seriously expensive workarounds.

CuttleFish2.0 said:
Obsinite resists corruption, it doesn't repel Chaos. it's an important distinction.

Bunkers:

CuttleFish2.0 said:
I should point out, though, that if you review the action text, the bunkers aren't just little forts. They're also sites where we can (apparently- @CuttleFish2.0 , am I wrong about this) sites where we can use our "magic radio" setup to communicate directly between Zlatlan and the bunker garrisons. If that is true, then it may impact the calculation, by giving us a huge communication and coordination advantage over a wide area, something the orcs can't duplicate.

CuttleFish2.0 said:

Correct, though it'; not quite 'magic radio.' Slightly closer to 'Magic Telegraph' in terms of relative bandwidth for information, though without needing to string literal wires between places. It builds off of similar principles to how communication between Zlatlan and Chupayotl functioned, though with distances much shortened and compacted such that slann are not necessary to operate the system (which is also where the constraint on how quickly and how much information can be transmitted).

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Southlands jungle Vs Lustrian jungle:

CuttleFish2.0 said:
Even if they decide to do some jungle exploring, how the fuck are they going to even find Zlatlan? Isn't there like a thousand miles of uncharted jungle, filled with all sorts of interesting diseases and exiting wildlife, between us? Even if they miraculously manage to march straight to us, while somehow finding enough food to feed 100k+ warriors, there is no way that orcish logistics would actually allow a protracted siege.

CuttleFish2.0 said:

To an extent yes, but you don't live in Lustria so it's not memetic levels of deadliness from which entire tribes do not return. Sufficient numbers of orcs wandering blindly will find you eventually if they keep heading in the right general direction, and there are sufficient numbers of orcs (just not heading in the right general direction).

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CuttleFish2.0 said:
For Quest Canon; heavy jungle extends a bit south of the Yuatek River before thinning out into more regular temperate forest scattered with plains, before turning into a largely savanna/grassland/semi-desert mixture to the southern coast.

Can Skinks ride Cold Ones?

CuttleFish2.0 said:
They do, though it does not happen all that often.

Zoats: What do we know?

CuttleFish2.0 said:
Nothing. You've - as in the Lizardmen as a whole, barring some unconfirmed glimpses - never encountered them.

Salamanders:

CuttleFish2.0 said:
Do Salamanders have any non-combat role in Lizardmen civilization? I understand they're big fire lizards, and I can imagine a few ways they might have civillian, or atleast as civillian as lizardmen get, applications. It might be worth grabbing them and razordons over the next few turns, both because it would give us more warbeasts but also potentially more power to various industries depending on their benefits.

CuttleFish2.0 said:

Not really, they're both fairly temperamental species that have to be handled carefully so that they don't kill the skinks directing them in combat. They're one of the newer aquisitions to the Lizardman roster.

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CuttleFish2.0 said:
An expedition to Lustria would be no more a guarantee of Salamanders than the current option, it would have a better chance in some ways and a worse one in others (the Salamanders in Lustria 'belong' to the Temple-Cities there, no guarantees there are 'enough spares' for them to give some to you).

Zlatlan maps:

CuttleFish2.0 said:
Been working on the turn outline and the first update of the turn, part of which prompted me to collate the loose sketches/ideas into a proper drawing of Zlatlan and then I figured I might as well share that with you guys.

So here; have a map of Zlatlan (not to scale, details very much subject to change) and a map of the inner, central portion of Zlatlan (not likely to change substantively, containing both Wik'keer'mal's Temple and the Grand Temple of Xholankha). Both can also be found in the Maps threadmark under the informational tab.

Leadwood:

CuttleFish2.0 said:
Where stone gets use in your ships it is literally part of the enchantment that lightens your ships and gives them extra juice. Leadwood is dense enough that it sinks in water, which means using it generally enough to make a difference would massively increase the weight of each ship and would require a complete redesign of each vessel from the ground up to incorporate and doing so would still likely end up being a net loss on your ships speed and maneuverability. For a frankly minimal increase in survivability against direct impacts (though a much greater resistance to fire attacks).

Leadwood is not a super special magical material, it's merely a slightly souped up version of the very real life leadwood. It has its uses but it also has actual drawbacks.

Obsinite Dragon eggs:

CuttleFish2.0 said:
As for boosting Gif'a-Gahb's magic; if you want to do that you have the Disc of Yuxa. Obsinite Dragon Eggs can either be used to temporarily unleash a Young Obsinite Dragon or, theoretically, power some form of long term magical construct/enchantment.

CuttleFish2.0 said:
Yes? That said, the Obsinite Dragons do not last hours on hours - if you're very lucky it might last 1 hour, more likely it would be 15 to 30 minutes - so awakening them is something only to be done in the midst of or right before battle. If your forces encounter a Warboss, have an Obsinite Dragon Egg available, and feel the need to use it they will. Assets give your forces options.

CuttleFish2.0 said:
Currently the dragons created by the Black Eggs only last, at most, about an hour and a half- outside of special, rare circumstances. Also, if you go back to when you used them against the green skins you'll see that the dragon is very... wild, a thing entirely of animalistic instinct, incapable of following more complex instructions than 'go here and kill that's really. So unless what you want to send them to do is wreck a portion of sunken Chupayotl or kill some 'fey' (not entirely certain who or what you mean), they're not the tool for the job.

Any other potential utility from them would require both using them more and/or diving into complex magical theory/researching in order to reveal.

Moving sacred plaques:

CuttleFish2.0 said:
Plaques can be moved, but... doing so is not risk free (they're magically powerful, though in ways thoroughly orthogonal to the way most artifacts are, and that makes them attractive to things). Mortals can break into places and circumvent protections that your traditional enemies can't.

Lizardmen Dwarf creation/comparison:

CuttleFish2.0 said:
But you have to remember that for all their advanced magical knowledge the Lizardmen and technical knowledge on many things, they still operate largely at subsistence levels; there's little automation going on in temple-cities, things are produced by hand in artisan fashion you just do things much more efficiently than anyone else because individual Lizardmen have relatively little ego (sort of).

Dwarfs would take a look at the rate one of your weaponsmiths turns out blades and such and salivate. Then they would take a second look at grumble loudly about all sorts of practices unbecoming of a master and go back to feeling smug. But for a second they would be jealous. So, yeah, you're not going to be repopulating cities quickly, but it is an achievable feat.

CuttleFish2.0 said:
Sort of. A Grandmaster dwarfen smith would produce a set of armor better in quality than what most of what your smiths would. But it would also be done within a paradigm completely divorced from the one you usually operate within - your saurus don't usually go out decked head to toe in plate armor, but many dwarfen thanes do, and for good reason as many of the threats your forces have historically faced were better faced with magical protections rather than purely physical ones. More, you could not later on take the commissioned piece of armor and enchant it to the same degree of effectiveness as you usually do for the armor your forges produce - because those enchantments are done at the time of forging - though in the end it would probably even out to about the same level of protectiveness. To start getting superior equipment you would need to look to commission from a Runelord.

The idea isn't bad, necessarily, but it's also not one that automatically conveys benefits. To do stuff like what you're talking about you'll need to develop your relationship with the dwarfs and establish a better physical connection. Or somehow entice them to establish an enclave nearby.

Making the Southlands jungle more deadly:

CuttleFish2.0 said:
For both, that's the realm of a personal project action; though I'll warn you now that you're not going to be replicating what was done in Lustria during the height of the Great Catastrophe (for a number of reasons, including - though not limited too - the lack of massive amounts of ambient magic, a much reduced Geomantic Web, and differences between the environment of Lustria and the Southlands). You cannot increase the rate of skink/kroxigor/saurus spawnings through a ritual, but you could supercharge population growth for your warbeasts.

Why don't we use more armor?

CuttleFish2.0 said:
- your saurus don't usually go out decked head to toe in plate armor, but many dwarfen thanes do, and for good reason as many of the threats your forces have historically faced were better faced with magical protections rather than purely physical ones. More, you could not later on take the commissioned piece of armor and enchant it to the same degree of effectiveness as you usually do for the armor your forges produce - because those enchantments are done at the time of forging -

Personal project scale and development:

CuttleFish2.0 said:
Theoretically possible. Likely to be expensive (in terms of slann power).

I want to be sure things are clear on the subject of scope; Personal Project fall, broadly into two categories - one, where the project has a narrow impact (the Fivefold Hive) and two, where the project as a broader impact (the Grand Temple, most of these ritual ideas). For the first category the project will, with some wiggle room depending on the exact roll, just autocomplete with a single investment of personal dice. Meanwhile the second category will generally need to meet a stricter minimum and upon success will open up further actions (whether research, or more normal) that will let you actually get the desired effects.

So you could 'design' the ritual you're talking about with a personal project and then next turn you would have it available to start working on enacting it.

What are Oracles?

CuttleFish2.0 said:
I don't believes it's an official unit or hero or anything in the tabletop game but there are a number of references to them. Basically, they are largely very similar to Priests of the Heavens in that they are heavily Azyr aligned, but they do not do direct spellcasting as such (though they can serve as conduits for slann). At least not at battlefield scales. No battlemagic for them.

Instead they are focused around divining and short-term prophecy and fate and destiny. Find and hiding and the protection of sacred places. They're an integral part of Lizardman society, if not particularly one that shows in the more... notable moments. For instances it is oracles that monitor and track spawnings - discerning the approach of particular meaningful ones and picking out those saurus and skinks blessed by the Old Ones in ways less immediately obvious. Every temple consecrated within Zlatlan was consecrated by teams of oracles. In the past, they helped the Lizardmen find rich veins of metal ore and suitable stone.

As leaders of military expeditions/forces they tend to 'happen' upon isolated enemy elements or to find previously unknown routes through difficult terrain. To rely upon surprise and swift, deadly strikes. On hitting the foe from an unconsidered angle.

CuttleFish2.0 said:
Sort of. It ties into the difference between an Oracle and skink Priest of Azyr. Atahuinqua was able to divine a rough idea of what the expedition would face in a matter of minutes, and by connecting that information with other methods (dreams, casting bones and shells and such, etc) they were able to guide the expedition. But you'll notice Atahuinqua did not just tell the Cold One riders and others to look out for an encampment of greenskins and such and such location.

Oracular magic is very broadly applicable and very simple in execution, capable of working on minimal resources, but it is also quite... fluid.

Unlike the astrological prediction provided by Gif'a-Gahb and other priests, which are usually fairly precise and explicit (at least so long as they are concerned with relatively 'immediate' futures).

Garden Guidelines:

CuttleFish2.0 said:
Lot's of good ideas here. A few comments; you will not - full stop - get fully sapient species from the Floating Gardens, nor can you get a number of things which are physically too large to easily fit within the (admittedly more roomy than they appear, but basically nothing significantly larger than say a rhino or giraffe) Temple grounds, some of the suggestions are for things whose effects are a bit too... beneficial?

Things like the hysh-trees that purify areas or absorb warpstone are all but certain not to randomly pop up. Something that might be a predecessor, which could then be developed into that, to that might. I'm not saying this to discourage anyone or as any sort of... reprimand? Just as a warning of what you can sort of expect to see appearing from the the Floating Gardens. At their most magical they might resemble at most the Vampire Tree suggested by @Sinsystems - largely because the tree as described is actively hostile and dangerous and so would pose a challenge - but you might also just get weird varieties of grass or new grains. That's mostly why I'm responding to these suggestions at this point, to make sure everyone knows that I have noticed the ideas but also to set a bit of expectation going forward.

CuttleFish2.0 said:
While the Garden is a potent piece of magic, it has its limits. So far it hasn't produced anything larger than a tree and most of the novels creatures noted have been significantly smaller, not surpassing a pig in size.

CuttleFish2.0 said:
I wouldn't object. But forewarning, the larger something is... the less likely it is to appear through the Garden. And basically no creature will ever appear in enough numbers to start a viable population, if you want war beasts you have to go out into the world and get them.

Ulthuan aquatic travel time:

CuttleFish2.0 said:
Last time it took about 8~ months round trip. Without having to escort the merchant vessels, it could be cut down to 3-4, but more realistically it would be about 5~ for a non-urgent mission. That said I would say no on being able to recall and send back Atahuinqua on the same turn just as a matter of balance.

Lizardmen flying creations:

CuttleFish2.0 said:
You've never built anything that truly 'flies.' Slann's palanquins hover, and some buildings in higher-level cities are suspended in air through magic, but both are reliant on abundant magic and move slowly if at all.

Maximum military allocation:

CuttleFish2.0 said:
Think less than half that. Maximum mobilization is only for do or die scenarios. See the time a quarter of a million greenskins were bearing down on your still vulnerable (by your standards at least) temple-city and you put everything but a minimum barebones garrison force on the front lines. Stripping Zlatlan to a third would leave it unacceptably vulnerable.

Past experience with dragons:

CuttleFish2.0 said:
that I said possibility of it being hostile. Dragons, in the experience of the Lizardmen as a whole, are varied in temperament (though with the caveat that they are always self-assured) enough that there's no real solid prediction of what's likely to be the outcome.

CuttleFish2.0 said:
90% of encounters between slann and dragons have ended in the death of one. Usually the dragon. The other 10% occurred after the survivors of the species agreed to be bound to service to the elves.

CuttleFish2.0 said:
Not in the sense lizardmen mean. Neither are they cold blooded.

Dragons are their own category.

Earthbound magic:

CuttleFish2.0 said:
Earthbound magic is not a description of a technique of magic, there's no 'earthbound magic' enchantments like there are Wind magic enchantments. It is when physical objects absorb magic over time, but critically it is not the Winds as they are present within objects because that would be, again, Wind magic. And as the name implies there is a specific and practical property of 'earthbound magic' which has to do with the fact that it is bound up in the earth or things of the earth which makes it different to Wind magic.

I said that you your magical artifacts don't "usually make direct use of the Winds in large quantities." I was not saying that either it or Wind attuned objects in general were useless to you.

Your artifacts typically take in earthbound magic for 'power' and convert it to Winds as needed to create specific effects that are more efficiently done via the Winds, or otherwise simply used the earthbound magic to do what it needs to.

The unfortunate counterpart to that is that the continent is... a continent away still and several times larger than Ulthuan.

CuttleFish2.0 said:
As for powerstones; you could create them easily enough. But for spells you prefer to be more efficient over pulling on more power and are cognizant of the repurcussions of adding more Winds to any given area of the world. On the other hand your enchantments and magical artifacts don't usually make direct use of the Winds in large quantities, instead they pull on earthbound magic which is much more cooperative and reliable.

CuttleFish2.0 said:
Earthbound magic doesn't really have 'reagents,' magically attuned components are more of a Wind thing.

Skink Priests and magic:

CuttleFish2.0 said:
On the subject of priests of different winds.

Ghur and Azyr have, historically been the two most useful lores for your forces. In the thousands of years the Servants of the Old Ones spent spreading the Geomantic Web across the world and clearing away species declared unsuitable for the world to come by the Old Ones very few of your regular enemies made use of metal armor, so Chamon's most potent multiplying factor was nonexistent.

Most of the environments you fought in tended to be wet; at the shores of ancient lakes where abyssal creatures crawled up out of the depths, fens and marshes teeming with Fimir, in the shadows of retreating continent glaciers, etc. so Aqshy was similarly disadvantaged. Hysh was situationally more useful, while plenty of your enemies from that time called upon dark gods, few of them actually had the pull to get much of anything across the protection the Old Ones built into the Polar Gates, the Lore of Light's greatest utility is in cleansing corruption and there... just wasn't that much corruption around to cleanse. Ulgu and Shyish were considered very useful, but lost out because of the overwhelming usefulness of Azyr and Ghur; the Lore of Heavens gives you not only potent and adaptable battlefield weapons but also a toolset that allows you to manipulate the time and place of a battlefield by divining enemy action, leadership, and vulnerabilities. On the other hand Ghur builds on the already existing strengths of the Lizardmen in general, saurus and kroxigor are already naturally tougher and aggressive and savage fighters so a wind that plays into that only makes them that much fiercer as well as having applications in roles and situations off the battlefield; calming your beasts of burden and offering an avenue of intelligence that was nearly omnipresent (wild animals).

So you've just never seen a need to develop your priests of the other Winds to battlefield relevance, especially when their magics are often very useful at other tasks; Chamon and Aqshy allows for superlative smiths and metal workers, Chamon and Hysh both also make for excellent builders and designers with the latter also being generally better at constructing the ubiquitous wardings which protect many of your constructions. Ghyran means your farms are enormously more productive than the size of your population suggests; really without it you probably wouldn't be able to sustain your Temple-Cities as you do. Shyish priests tend the tombs of the Relic Priests and will not shirk their duties for anything but an imminent invasion of the city itself. Ulgu simply do not spawn.

Have in in fact never spawned in all the records of Zlatlan and all the memories of its slann.

In terms of how they measure up against elf mages; it's complicated. Newly spawned a skink priest would be roughly equal to a 'graduated' elven mage, but most elven mages will be generally better than most skink priests, except for your most experienced examples which will rival a 'standard' Archmage in terms of raw capability, but will of course fall far short of the greater examples. Teclis would run absolute circles around even the very best skink priests... metaphorically.

CuttleFish2.0 said:
Yes, and no. In the same sense that even humans with souls deeply attuned to specific Winds can use Petty Magic without worry, they can also manipulate Geomantic Magic to a certain extent (though lack the finesse to do so with much complexity and raw metaphysical oomph to call on it directly; so only in the simplest ways and when either a slann or appropriate geomantic infrastructure makes it available). On the other hand their souls are directly attuned to a specific Wind so they can't actually directly touch a Wind they're not attuned to... though the exact method is different than it would be in humans.

Edit: To be clear, Skink Priests are relegated to Ghur and Azyr magic for battlefield utility, all other Winds are covered by artisan-priests of various stripes. Save for Ulgu.

Teleporting to Ulthuan:

CuttleFish2.0 said:
Yes, with the understanding that actually teleporting isn't going to happen until much, much, much later (once the Geomantic Web Zlatlan is attached to is boosted up) and would be one way until you improve your relationships with the Phoenix King a lot (plus some research and other actions). And even then it would be a once every few decades sort of thing.

CuttleFish2.0 said:
While the 8th edition Armybook does that Tepec-Inzi 'transported' his army to the Ashen Coast, the other source for the event has Tepec-Inzi chasing the Dark Elves on foot with his army.

That said, it would be possible for the Lustrian slann to teleport an army that distance (and further, if the need was great enough), but the portion of the Geomantic Web Zlatlan is connected to cannot support that sort of thing.

Horned Ones:

CuttleFish2.0 said:
Exclusive, no. But proportionally, Zlatlan has a lot more Horned Ones than any temple-city of Lustria; enough to have an actual stable breeding population. In Lustria, their riders have to go out and capture a wild Horned One, and they are rare, most temple-cities have a handful of Horned Ones with the largest temple-cities perhaps having a squadron or two. You have three, and have managed to mostly maintain them over the centuries (sometimes one of the squadrons is badly under strength) while keeping up the numbers of Horned Ones is an ongoing effort for your counterparts in Lustria.

CuttleFish2.0 said:
Physically Horned Ones are slightly larger, and have horns. That's about it for major physical differences (there are hundreds of very minor ones). Socially though they're more aggressive and not as pack oriented as Cold Ones; Cold Ones operate much like wolves do, in terms of social dynamics, but Horned Ones are more like bears or lions in their behavior. Cold Ones hunt and live as family units typically, with both parents taking relatively equal responsibility in feeding and rearing young, but with Horned Ones the males typically fuck off after mating and the females raise their young for relatively brief periods of time before turning them loose.

Troglodons:

CuttleFish2.0 said:
An older troglodon will have more of a personality initially and they'll learn 'slower.' Younger troglodons will be less capable to start but will pick up things much quicker. Though its more that older troglodons have their own ideas of how to do things and Atahuinqua will have to spend time convincing their mount that they really do know how to do things. With an older troglodon the relationship will be more like an equal partnership, but with a younger one it'll be more like parent-child or older/younger siblings.

In terms of difficulty... well that depends on what you mean?

Difficulty in catching them? That depends on the specific circumstances; Atahuinqua could run into an old troglodon that forms an instant connection with them or they could run into a younger one whose parents really disapprove of them trying to snatch their baby. Circumstances and chance play a role on that front and there's no gaurantee either way.

Difficulty in binding them to Atahuinqua? No difference.

Difficult in training them? Younger will be easier, older will be harder. But older will come in with experience and will apply lessons more quickly while younger will be an ongoing effort on Atahuinqua's part that (depending on personality and how young they are) could take decades to fully pay off.

CuttleFish2.0 said:
That's not a concern. Something about the magical binding between an Oracle and their mount seems to extend the troglodon's already long life even further; it's unclear if they become biologically immortal because a lot died during the Great Catastrophe and then the rest died in the centuries after as the Oracle's they were bound to tried to do the work of four or five times their number. Up until the fall of Chupayotl none of the ones that had been bound since had died of old age.

Spirits and/or Athel Loren:

CuttleFish2.0 said:
Forest spirits are not unknown to you. Wik'keer'mal has never noted any specific individuals, a few served as minor impediments to the foundings of a number of temple-cities, Zlatlan being one of them, but not serious ones.

While it is known that there is a magical confluence in the general region of Athel Loren, and it was for a time considered as a site for future expansions of the Geomantic Web (much further in the future), such plans are a distant memory and it was never more than theoretical. Detailed surveys were never conducted. Nor even prelimainary scouting.

6. Spirits definitely exist, though they are mostly too weak/simple for you to bother with. Anything any of the common spirits could do you can already do more efficiently/reliably or simply have no interest in doing. More powerful spirits are rare and... have not tended to get along well with you as they are generally unwilling to make themselves subservient to the Old Ones and the Great Plan, which is the bare minimum for you to allow powerful things to coexist with you (when they're not powerful enough to tell you to fuck off).

By their own measures, the Volhu already deal with spirits. Though their definition of that is broader than your own and includes Wik'keer'mal himself. How true that actually is something Zille'mi will be specifically investigating in this action.

As for elementals, something close to them sometimes take shape in the deserts near the equator. Otherwise they mostly don't exist outside of those created by magic wielders.

Random stuff:

watcheye456 said:
might as well put those out of the way.

1. What about more undercut vectors? 1,1. Can deamons and chaos gods influence people and spirits similar to them acting in Norska?
2. Is our main advantage on that front lack of physical connection to broken polar gate?
3. Is Tzzench curse a thing that can mess them up? (or is it later in cannon, forgot that part?) 3,1. Do we have anything atm to help with that?
4. Bad moon mutation is one thing, that still happens, is it less influential that close to Zlatlan? 4,1. Or does it glow does not reah our front yard?
5. Do we have to worry about possesion via dream/vision as much as elsewhere? 5,1. could we even tell?
6. Does that mean spirits and elementals reigh supreme in the eather for the time being? 6,1. Would we consider intoducing Vohlu to them?
Click to shrink...

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

1. No. You would only, theoretically, start getting to Norsca levels down near the tip of the continent, but again because of both the Geomantic Web and physical layout of the southern hemisphere magic can't usually reach the same levels of saturation.

2. No. While the land connections between the northern polar wastes and the continents play a part in the how magic flows, a larger factor are things like the Mountains of Mourne which 'gather' the Winds before they flow out into the rest of the continents. Norsca act similarly along with the mountains in the north of Naggaroth.

Meanwhile, the mountains in the southlands run north-south and mostly let the Winds flow freely towards the Vortex.

3. I'm not sure I know what you mean with this... if you're talking about the unpredictability of magic; that actually has almost nothing to actually do with Tzeentch. Except in the sense that Tzeentch can sometimes take advantage of it or nudge things towards bad outcomes when the power of Chaos is highest.

You have a lot of ways to make magic less unpredictable, though most are innate to being Lizardmen and have to do with how your souls are built.

4. You are as much subject to the light of Morrslieb as anywhere else. Though the general lower levels of magic in the immediate environment lower the overall risk from it somewhat.

5. Slann? Skinks? Saurus? Kroxigor? No. Not outside of very unique and bad circumstances. Humans and other living creatures, yes and yes you could tell if you were looking for it- which you sort of mostly do by default, though more subtle entities could evade detection from most of your techniques.

6. Spirits definitely exist, though they are mostly too weak/simple for you to bother with. Anything any of the common spirits could do you can already do more efficiently/reliably or simply have no interest in doing. More powerful spirits are rare and... have not tended to get along well with you as they are generally unwilling to make themselves subservient to the Old Ones and the Great Plan, which is the bare minimum for you to allow powerful things to coexist with you (when they're not powerful enough to tell you to fuck off).

By their own measures, the Volhu already deal with spirits. Though their definition of that is broader than your own and includes Wik'keer'mal himself. How true that actually is something Zille'mi will be specifically investigating in this action.

As for elementals, something close to them sometimes take shape in the deserts near the equator. Otherwise they mostly don't exist outside of those created by magic wielders.

watcheye456 · Mar 23, 2025

EVA-Saiyajin said:
Snip.

Congrats. Now its your job to keep the list updated

On another note. The most plausible way for us to justyfi being intrested in Albion would likely come from Vortex and the study about it that we are doing. Chances are unknown, but we could detect the fact that it is simply not getting enough of the winds . Some calculations to determine that about a third of it is missing from the direction of some underexplored islands...

Then we could start thinking about it.
Vortex study comes first. And that is off by 2-5 turns if get things right...

So there. In the meantime, be busy with something else.

EVA-Saiyajin · Mar 23, 2025

watcheye456 said:
Congrats. Now its your job to keep the list updated

On another note. The most plausible way for us to justyfi being intrested in Albion would likely come from Vortex and the study about it that we are doing. Chances are unknown, but we could detect the fact that it is simply not getting enough of the winds . Some calculations to determine that about a third of it is missing from the direction of some underexplored islands...

Then we could start thinking about it.
Vortex study comes first. And that is off by 2-5 turns if get things right...

So there. In the meantime, be busy with something else.

I'm looking forward to seeing what comes of the study of the Obelisk. The crude but powerful Greenskins shaman Dorzug was able to obtain remarkable power for all his lack of true understanding.

Leroidumonde · Mar 24, 2025

So knowing we still have Curious Archmages, Guiding the Vohlu, and Contemplating the Sequence to go. Here's my poorly thought out, far too early lead balloon.
Tzahuan, and Chiccti of the fifth spawning have both been to Nahuantl to help cleanse it, Udhi-Tegha and Ecu'otta are our two geomantic web specialists. How foolish would it be to have a(n secondary?) expedition.Chupayotl seems like it could be something? I am fairly sure that it has been mentioned before all the reasons that restoring another temple city would be both costly in time, manpower, risk and more but...
What about an expedition to Nahuantl to help restore it, a genius idea I dont know why we havent done before!!But more seriously could we launch say three ships to Nahuantl loaded with supplies to help build up a harbor or repair its harbor facilities as it looks to be on the coast. Come back for more food or stone to our actual working city and help keep say less than a thousand Skinks, Saurus, and Kroxigors supplied
indefinitely with perhaps a fortnightly round trip that could stress test our dragon turtles. They could then prioritize repairing a third? of spawning pools, forge district, then easiest things to fix. This should give Nahuantl a slow trickle of numbers go up, the ability to build basic tools and weapons for them, as well as then beginning to repair the city enough that a useful amount of power is able to go to its City glyph,
to be able to do something with that. With at somepoint those Slann I mentioned taking a second group to check up on the work and call it good, or have Tzahuan and Chiccti stay to help rebuild the city they could of come from(characterization attack).

I am thinking this may take up to 3 turns and may need say a flotilla first to scout, search and destroy the area around Nahuantl of anything that may make it unsafe for us to do this and then slowly pull back saurus and ships until it is ultimately able to be supplied more easily. I am unsure also about the Slann, they could walk, we could prepare to put them on ships, they could go with the first wave, as part of a second. This is ultimately just a thought bubble whose veracity I am unsure of, could it be part one of preparing to scavenge chupayotl or a way to pull our time and attention from doing it. Probably we should finish scouting out Teotiqua or the Temple of skulls first, all questions I do not know answers too. Maybe we should first do this to Tlaqua considering they may be in trouble by the start of next turn. I just thought that bringing in much of what we need by boat as JowKeen mentioned would not invalidate, Simon_Jester s argument but would lessen it's sting if all the things we need to support a group to build up their facilities to working? condition did not completely balloon out due to the tyranny of the wagon, then it may take only two turns to get them functional. Turn one some of the rubble is cleared and some things are repaired but non-functional, turn two most rubble is cleared and enough has been repaired that there has been a spawning and some other functions actually function.

Edited in
P.S. sorry for the wall of text, in my head it was both smaller and far more coherent. But it is 0315 and I need to sleep and I could not with this running around in my head. So you get my past midnight thoughts all at once, sorry.

EVA-Saiyajin · Mar 24, 2025

@Leroidumonde

We did Contemplating the Sequence.

It was the first half of Experimental Pool Work: In Shadow.

CuttleFish2.0 · Mar 24, 2025

Day 57 Chotec's Season, 11654

Hot breath ghosted across the back of their neck, a long plaintive hiss accompanying it as Atahuinqua stuck the tip of their blade into egret and with a quick motion opened it from neck to cloaca. Hot blood sprayed across the sun-warmed stone as the bird spasmed in its bindings.

Once the animal had stilled again the oracle began to pull out the entrails. Lungs, heart, liver, stomach, intestine. Each placed gingerly upon the stone in order of appearance, sunlight glittering across fat and membranes.

"Hmmmm," hummed Atanuiquna.

Grasping the fading of the soul the skink spoke a single, soundless word that stretched and thinned the veil of the world. Color bled from flesh and light until all was muted and greying. But in the place of vibrant color came shimmering traceries of chance, writ into the deposits of fat and twists of veins were the echoes of fate.

There— a spreading corona in the lungs. Curling tendrils in one lobe of the liver and scattering of embers in the lower intestine.

Atahuinqua chittered excitedly, studying the shifting forms of magic as they spread from organ to organ in dizzying patterns. Once again hot breath washed over top their head and one long, thin quill-whisker tickled the side of their neck as Tenqu'itt pressed her long snout forward to inhale the scent of fresh meat. Her breath was sickly sweet on the air.

Reaching up with one hand the oracle slapped her away, hard.

"Tch, greedy."

Rearing back as if stung the young troglodon gave out a plaintive whine; shaking her head and then burying in beneath one forelimb pitifully as she slunk away. They ignored her antics, focused entirely upon the entrails before them. Slow waves pulsed across the surface of the stomach and certain fractal patterns flickering through the fatty deposits around the upper chamber of the heart.

Continuing to disregard the increasingly noisy scratching coming from behind them Atahuinqua drew out their divining rod and focused on the magic within the meat once again.

Long practice and certain innate instinct let the oracle read meaning from such things, though such divinations were always uncertain. Movement, steady and undisturbed— effort unhurried and unbothered; whatever moved out in the world along the paths of choice ahead of Atahuinqua, it did so for reasons of its own.

No flows between organs, that meant isolated and disconnected events.

Good omens for a long journey, though… some uncertainty lingered. At last the final sparks of magic faded into nothingness and the color quickly began to leech back into the flesh before them.

Slipping their divining rod back into the loops of their belt they scooped up one of the lungs and let out a whistle.

Quick as a viper strike, heavy claws scrambled through dirt and grass and brush as Tenqu'itt bounded back over, quill-whiskers rattling quietly as she came to a halt over the oracle's shoulder. Letting out a curious breath as she sniffed the air eagerly and flicked her long tongue out.

Atahuinqua turned around and tossed the lung into the air, "Catch."

In an instant her jaws had snatched the organ out of the air and gulped it down, even the largest egret would barely be more than a light meal for the troglodon. Not yet fully grown, she had nevertheless begun to tower over the skink in the last few years, only just coming up to her shoulder. It would be another few lunar months before it was entirely safe to actually begin riding, but they'd begun training mock saddles weeks ago.

Day 59 Chotec's Season, 11654

Tenqu'itt flinched as the large male carnosaur lounging at the other end of the courtyard let out a low, contented growl as the attendants scrubbed hsi scales with a heavy brush of dried branches. One of her foreclaws scraped against the ground as she ducked close to the ground. Atahuinqua tugged on one of her whiskers and thought calming, reassuring thoughts.

"Relax," they said aloud.

She knew the scent of carnosaurs but had not yet been so close to one.

Outside of preparations for war the beasts rarely spent time in the temple-city and their territory was wide ranging. In the wild even an adult troglodon would be wary of taking on an adult carnosaur head on, a juvenile would avoid them entirely.

With a whistle Atahuinqua drew Tenqu'itt's attention, turning to head down an alley between two barracks buildings. She relaxed again as they briefly passed into the shaded confines and the scent of the carnosaur faded to a more distant thing, pressing ahead of them as they left behind the buildings again and came to one of the training yards of the southern barracks complex. Dozens of skinks gathered in the beaten dirt yard.

Several made quick signs as they noticed the Oracle and their mount before returning to their sparring.

Continuing past the training yard they came to another field. Though rather than beaten dirt and targets, this one was made of narrow earthen paths between tall rock formations scattered with shelves and wide flat tops.

As they approached Tenqu'itt's nostrils flared and she perked up excitedly, her split tail flicking back and forth as she pulled further ahead of Atahuinqua. Cold Ones dozed contentedly in the sun as their riders and handlers watched from the edges of the yard in quiet conversation. Tenqu'itt let out a quiet, quizzical hiss as her back limbs clawed at the dirt.

"Go."

In silence she sprang forward, powerful limbs carrying her across the gap in moments and then launching her high into the air.

Despite their apparent ease the Cold Ones laying on the rock she had chosen scattered before she even landed letting out squawks of alarm as they leapt down. Tenqu'itt wasted no time in chasing after them, scrambling down the side of the rock in silent excitement.

She had more experience with the Cold One packs of Zlatlan, having been introduced to several of them over the last decade and a half. It had been remarkably easy for them to accept her. And only a little longer for her to grow used to the smaller beasts and only light corrections to stop trying to see how much of them she could fit into her mouth.

Troglodon were solitary creatures by nature, save for when they were quite young or when they were mated; but the bond evidently gave them some measure of tolerance for and even desirous of company. Once introduced to them Tenqu'itt was always excited to see Cold Ones. Eager to play. Or simply to socialize.

And for their part the Cold Ones seemed to eventually conclude she was simply a larger Cold One. Whether that perception would survive her full growth remained to be seen.

By the time Atahuinqua had reached the cluster of handlers and riders, Tenqu'itt was playfully nipping at the tails of several Cold Ones— juveniles too small to receive their own riders yet, as they wove in and out beneath her.

"Oracle," said Ixtlec eldest of the riders that would be coming on the expedition.

"How come your preparations?"

"Under discussion."

"We were discussing where to focus our scouting for this first leg, Oracle," said another of the saurus.

Navigation Roll - 89 + 20 (Atahuinqua Divination) = 109

Atahuinqua nodded, that was expected. Beside the temple-guard assigned to Lord Ecu'otta, most of the expedition was composed of light troops; half of a squadron of Cold Ones, a mixed cohort and a half of skinks, one pair of carnosaur, and a flight of terradon. They would be less than three hundred in total.

Though the mage-lord held ultimate command, he had left most decisions to Atahuinqua thus far. Who had in turn decided, as there were no serious dangers expected before reaching the southern plains, it was better to leave most details to the individual commands. As an oracle Atahuinqua had little experience in command, having spent more time out in the wilderness on their own.

Most details.

Two nights ago a dream of blood and rising waters had unsettled them. After much meditation they had interpreted the omen and connected it to previous divinations, casting signs to determine how best to warn of the matter. Now, for a third time— first to the leader of the terradon and then to the chief charged with commanding the infantry, they spoke the words.

"On the morn of the forty-third day of Caxuatn's Season seek a black pillar, coiling amongst heaven's waters… seek you the flood to stem its rise."

Day 71 Chotec's Season, 11654

Weeks out of Zlatlan and the expedition had made perhaps three-quarters the speed it should have. Not for terrain or weather. What summer rains had blown in had been brief affairs and the highway running south of the temple-city ran all the way to the bank of the Yuatek.

No, what delayed the progress of the expedition was the warmbloods.

Every afternoon and morning they insisted on taking various readings of the 'local saturation of Winds' for at least an hour and Lord Ecu'otta had commanded they be indulged. According to Tyrecmion they hope to build a 'more thorough model of aethyric patterns so close to the polar gates.' Atahuinqua knew the patterns of magic well enough from centuries spent out in the wilds around Zlatlan, such talk of 'models' was the providence of priests like Zille'mi and Gif'a-gahb.

"... not as sharp as that found at similar northern latitudes," said Achmage Tyrecmion, motioning to a small scroll in hand as the other two packed up their equipment.

"Mmm."

"Which supports our theory that the lack of physical barrier plays at least some part in the lower levels of overall magic."

Ecu'otta hummed again, his half-lidded eyes following the warmblood as he animatedly expounded. They were rather clever creatures, he had to admit, having grasped at least part of the continent's relative quietude in just a few scant years— he was beginning to understand why Wik'keer'mal had invited them to Zlatlan.

"Yes, mmm, your- mm, theories strike me as sound, though I wonder how you- mm," this Eltharin was cumbersome as a language, so filled with double layered meanings (an interesting puzzle, but inefficient as a means of communication),"Plan to account for the, hmm, ah- flooding of magic."

"Flooding?" Tyrecmion blinked, "Oh, you mean the tides of magic— harytha aethyr, not sarytha."

"Mmm, yes I suppose I do."

"Well, we've been taking readings frequently from Zlatlan. Combined with previous data from similar latitudes a reasonable model should be possible, at least until we can arrange a more thorough study of… "

II, 1073, 1, 86

Sometimes, during his worst moments, Isobar found himself contemplating turning back. Now they were beyond the roads of the Zlatlani— impressive works all told, it was much harder going.

Every evening he had enough new aches to soothe out that he had cause to regret insisting on an overland journey. Carrying so much of their own gear, despite the spells to lighten its weight, and supplies through such rough terrain was near torture. Enchanted robes and ointments kept him on his feet all day.

They did not make climbing hill after hill through dense brush any easier.

Which was not to say the journey had been without its joys. One of his chief joys had always been the bounty of nature. During his apprenticeship Ghyran had called to him strongly enough that he'd made it his first Mastery and been considering a position in Avelorn before falling in with Amnil and Tyrecmion. Isobar doubted he would have done very well in the court of the Everqueen in the end.

Far too traditionalist for him.

But he had not failed to nurture that talent and joy, and so to be traversing an unexplored land was a grand gift. Each day offered fresh discoveries; new species of flower and tree and bird and reptile. Sketches filled his personal notes, with details hastily scribbled in the margins.

When time allowed he would return to catalogue them in more detail. And he'd already noted at least three species that could be cousins to those of Elthin Arvan… if they bore out it would certainly offer greater evidentiary support for Archmage Eldan's theories on heritability and migration patterns of certain bird species.

Any return though would be predicated on hiring on some hands, or pushing Amnil to accelerate his plans. He was not going to traipse around the jungle dragging his own luggage and samples again, it would take ten times as long, and he was not about to wait around for the Zlatlani to agree to another expedition. That would take even longer.

Ecu'otta and that Gar'ata'xamundi fellow were both bright and insightful, despite their grotesque forms, but the rest of the Zlatlani were nearly as incurious as Princes were. For all their gifts with magic even Zille'mi and Atahuinqua had little head for theory. If only Lord Wik'keer'mal wasn't so occupied with the running of the city, now he had been truly keen— but it was just like with Prince Thyriol, the politics of rulership took precedence over discovery.

Isobar was glad to be a fourth-cousin, House Laughingbrook's holdings were small even by Sapherian standards but he did not envy his uncle or his cousins. It would take true disaster before he would inherit.

Day 43 Caxuatn's Season, 11654

Smoke had been sighted the day before by one of the terradon riders, a black column coiling into the clear blue sky a little ways off their path, but when the first scouts had reported back what they'd found Lord Ecu'otta had allowed the diversion of most of the expedition.

Four hundred some uax. Half a season away from Zlatlan.

Far from a Waaagh, but too dangerous a sign all the same, the small large encampment showed clear signs of the beginnings of organization; at least what passed for organization amongst the greenskins. Control seemed to be divided between three separate groups; one dominated by orcs, their limbs and faces studded with bone piercings, another almost entirely made up of goblins, all marked with a cross of charcoal across their eyes, and the last roughly evenly mixed between the two.

Peaceful by the standards of uax, there were only a dozen or so fights a day in the large central fighting pit dug into the center of the low hill the settlement was situated on.

Though their forces were outnumbered significantly, Atahuinqua was unconcerned. Uax notions of security were laughable at the best of times and these greenskins hardly seemed worried about attack. 'Patrols' were limited entirely to the scattershot hunting parties that left the encampment to sate their own hunger.

Sprawling down the sides of the hill, the 'settlement' had no fortifications to speak of as it spilled across the jungle like a scar.

Half of the Cold Ones were sent in a large loop around the perimeter of the encampment in each direction while Atahuinqua and a full cohort of skinks approached from the west. Lord Ecu'otta and his temple-guard lagged somewhat behind them, along with the three warmblood Archmages. Overhead the flight of terradon watched and reported on the movements within the encampment.

Just before noon the Cold Ones swept through the outer limits of the settlement, trampling fires and scattering tents as they cut down all they encountered before fading back into the jungle. Actual casualties were light, a few dozen in total, but it succeeded in drawing the attention of the encampment. From the edge of the jungle Atahuinqua watched as much of the populace rushed towards the commotion, abandoning what 'work' they had for the promise of ensuing violence.

Tenqu'itt crouched in the shadows beside them, her whiskers twitching in anticipation.

After a few minutes the oracle raised their hand and dropped it, signalling the cohort forward.

As one, one-hundred and twenty-one skinks and one troglodon began to rush across the field— spears and clubs clutched in hand, quchi shield strapped across their backs. Long, tense minutes passed as in near complete silence; only the sound of breathing and clawed feet pounding bare earth disrupting the sound of wind and distant bird calls. No alarms were raised, no shouts of 'waaagh' met them.

Finally they were amongst the outer edges of the encampment and the cohort slowed to a steady, organized march. Shields and spears forward they crept up the hill, through the dense press of tents and huts.

The first resistance they faced was a group of grumbling orcs, too distracted by their internal complaints to notice either Atahuinqua and Tenqu'itt or the cohort of skinks they had wandered into the middle of before it was too late, none managed to do more than jostle their foes. But they were only the first. Quickly orcs and goblins began to filter back into the encampment in three and fours and fives.

Still nearly a hundred meters from the fighting pit at the center of the camp, Atahuinqua nevertheless made the choice to abandon stealth.

"Forward!"

Amidst the chaos of a disorganized greenskin tumult the sound of over a hundred skinks charging recklessly up hill was all but lost.

There was no true Waaagh to guide the orcs and goblins with preternatural instincts. Only the sense and intelligence of individual uax. And so the realization that they were being invaded came far too late to prevent the skinks from taking the fighting pit.

No other palace within the camp had anything resembling fortifications; two rows of crude timber and packed earth in a rough circle around a shallow, sunken depression. Even so, it was an untenable position. It only 'resembled' fortifications. Without proper reinforcement a few dozen greenskins could push them over with a few hours of dedicated effort and Atahuinqua did not have the supplies, muscle power, or time to shore them up.

Which the oracle had known from the beginning.

Large rocks the size of an orcs head crashed through the gathering crowds of greenskins in a staggered wave, punching a hole in the thickest knot three times in a row in the span of seconds. Dozens of orcs and goblins flinched in unison as six terradon dove out of the sky, bowling over more with the wind from their beating wings.

Chaos swirled as the crowds of gathered greenskins whirled on every passing shadow for minutes. And just as the uax were beginning to recover and organize themselves again, pressing at the four closest entrances to the pit, a chorus of ripping snarls cut through the air from behind them as the Cold Ones swept back in on their rears.

It was already over.

Atahuinqua signalled Tenqu'itt forward and the troglodon surged out of the nearest gap in the pit walls, snatching up an unfortunate goblin in her jaws and taking off his left arm in a viscous whip of her head. Following after her the oracles looked out at the melee and felt something old and deep settle in behind their eyes.

Well done, an excellent start.

Their arm raised and lightning shot forth from the tips of their fingers, spearing through three orcs before splintering off to crawl through two goblins and another orc. Another arc of lightning spit out from their other hand, catching several greenskins trying to surround Tenqu'itt; for a moment their flesh glowed from within before they dropped like empty sacks, eye sockets and mouths and ears smoking.

In but a few hours the encampment of four hundred would be a smoking ruin, for the cost of a few broken bones and torn scales.

With something of a rapport established, Ecu'otta took the remainder of the journey south to speak with the three Archmages. On what topics did he question them?

Choose two:

[] Observations so far on the aethyr
[] Their work for Prince Morethion in the north
[] Education in Saphery
[] Investigations into forest spirits
[] Opinions of Prince Menalur
[] Write-In: Subject to QM approval.

Notes: This fought me a bit too, but I'm pleased with where it ended up. Comments, critique, etc.

2 hour Moratorium

IronKnightofSilv · Mar 24, 2025

CuttleFish2.0 said:
Isobar was glad to be a fourth-cousin, House Laughingbrook's holdings were small even by Sapherian standards but he did not envy his uncle or his cousins. It would take true disaster before he would inherit.

Hahahaha. Potential foreshadowing I see.
[X] Education in Saphery
[X] Investigations into forest spirits

EVA-Saiyajin · Mar 24, 2025

It's so funny to think of Lizardmen relying on reading entrails for their work. It makes me wonder where the dividing line is between that being a perfectly reasonable method and a crude is.

It's so cute and down to earth to see a juvenile troglodon playing with Cold Ones.

In but a few hours the encampment of four hundred would be a smoking ruin, for the cost of a few broken bones and torn scales.

Discipline, momentum, and organization can overcome numbers and physical might, to hilarious results. That's how you historically get battles of tens of thousands being decided by single well placed charges after hours or days with merely triple digit casualties.

It's a cool change of pace from what one typically expects to see Skinks being auxiliary support at best, not the main assault force. One always imagines Saurus in that role.

Hmm…I wonder if there is any sort of censure or punishment for fleeing for Lizardmen, given their mindsets.

After a few minutes the oracles raised their hand and dropped it, signalling the cohort forward.

"oracle"

EVA-Saiyajin · Mar 24, 2025

[X] Observations so far on the aethyr
[X] Investigations into forest spirits
[X] Education in Saphery
[X] Mutagenic changes of Annuli mountains over time.

Earth-Destroyer · Mar 24, 2025

[x] Education in Saphery
[x] Their work for Prince Morethion in the north

We know far more about the the wind flows then they do. How elves teach magic to other elves is interesting, and their prior work.

watcheye456 · Mar 24, 2025

CuttleFish2.0 said:
Choose two:

[] Write-In: Subject to QM approval.

Oh my. Those are intresting. Wonder what can I can come up with for QM...

~~[] Write-In:~~

[X] Anomalies and events of magical nature expirienced outside of Ulthuan and Southlands.
[X] Mutagenic changes of Annui mountains over time.

~~-[] Some of the most contentious magical theories their people are on.~~

-Subject to QM approval. - how do these sound like?

CuttleFish2.0 said:
First two would be fine, third is a no. Just vote for them as individual things, like the existing options.

ok.
We'll see where it leads us

EVA-Saiyajin said:
It's so cute and down to earth to see a juvenile troglodon playing with Cold Ones.

She is a good girl. she gets to play. Those are universal, even if humans are masters of it.

EVA-Saiyajin said:
Hmm…I wonder if there is any sort of censure or punishment for fleeing for Lizardmen, given their mindsets.

There is no 'fleeing' amoung lizardman. Only retreat. Fleeing indicates fear and loss of cohesion. Those boys are simply incapable of such.
If they did, I would imagine them being considered 'disfunctional'. That is a fate worse than death, to them.

This was a good update. Had so much of what I here for. Always happy to see warmbloods sympathise with busy frogs. And was not aware of how much I would enjoy that alone.
The Uax removal was exelent as well. Real shows the expertise and skill of out people.
shame we did not get to interogate any of them. Not likely to get much but, always some intel.
Looking forward to social elements.

Thanatosra · Mar 24, 2025

Earth-Destroyer said:
We know far more about the the wind flows then they do. How elves teach magic to other elves is interesting, and their prior work.

tbf their is a chance they could know something the slann overlooked cause they already think they know more its happened a lot

[X] Investigations into forest spirits
[X] Opinions of Prince Menalur

watcheye456 · Mar 24, 2025

[X] Education in Saphery
[X] Investigations into forest spirits

Earth-Destroyer said:
We know far more about the the wind flows then they do. How elves teach magic to other elves is interesting, and their prior work.

Thanatosra said:
tbf their is a chance they could know something the slann overlooked cause they already think they know more its happened a lot

Not to mention, its potential implementation in teaching Vohlu. Sure have to take into consideration all the diffrences but still. its some data points and expirience.
Getting Slann intrested with warmbloods may have intresting windfalls.

We will also have to deal with spirits eventually...

Hellteddy · Mar 24, 2025

[X] Investigations into forest spirits
[X] Their work for Prince Morethion in the north

hugo239111 · Mar 24, 2025

I am liking Watcher's idea's, they feel like they will give a good idea on either where Ulthuan is magically or the state of the world beyond our immediate range.

lizatessu · Mar 24, 2025

[X] Education in Saphery
[X] Observations so far on the aethyr

Leroidumonde · Mar 24, 2025

[X] Observations so far on the aethyr
[X] Investigations into forest spirits

I know we should care about warmblood politics and knowledge, it's just so hard to actually do so.
I am interested in their take on the Aethyr so far, especially as we get nearer to where the southern obelisk is. Because as Thanatosra says we have benefitted before from getting knowledge from them. Or teaching the vohlu winds might be far more potentially rewarding in the long term than turning them into short lived warmblooded lizardfolk as watcheye456 mentions.
But I really do like the whole chapter being this idea that while we are on our way we might as well do pest control, and we have the discipline and training to do so not fight desperate battles.

EVA-Saiyajin · Mar 24, 2025

I'll throw in approval voting for Saphery education.

CuttleFish2.0 · Mar 24, 2025

watcheye456 said:
Oh my. Those are intresting. Wonder what can I can come up with for QM...

[] Write-In:
-[] Anomalies and events of magical nature expirienced outside of Ulthuan and Southlands.
-[] Mutagenic changes of Annui mountains over time.
-[] Some of the most contentious magical theories their people are on.

-Subject to QM approval. - how do these sound like?

First two would be fine, third is a no. Just vote for them as individual things, like the existing options.

MrRageQuit · Mar 24, 2025

[X] Observations so far on the aethyr
[X] Their work for Prince Morethion in the north

*name* · Mar 24, 2025

[X] Observations so far on the aethyr
[X] Education in Saphery
[X] Investigations into forest spirits

EVA-Saiyajin · Mar 24, 2025

watcheye456 said:
There is no 'fleeing' amoung lizardman. Only retreat. fleeing indicates fear and loss of cohesion. Those boys are simply incapable of such.
If they did, I would imagine them being considered 'disfunctional'. That is a fate worse than death, to them.

If that were true Kroxigors wouldn't be known to stiffen the spines of Skinks when among them in battle.

Thanatosra · Mar 24, 2025

kroxigors and sarus I can buy not fleeing shinks on the other hand have way more not sure whats the right word personality, so them fleeing is something I could see if rare cause they have a more emonintal range granted thats not a high mark when the others are saurus and kroxigors.
Also kroxigors and saurus are more literal while shinks are more free thinkers from what I see in this quest so they might flee if a battle is lost while the other 2 would stay cause orders

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