From the Hidden City (Warhammer Lizardmen Temple-City Quest)

Now, I'm actually more thinking of sponsoring elven adventurers to gather intelligence on what the orcs are up to.

The elves are likely to be colonising the tip of the Southlands soon anyway, and I'd much prefer to premept that and get them used to the idea that we grant them permission to do so rather than them doing it without asking and us not being able to do anything about it and deciding they are fully within their rights to do so.
They won't know the terrain and may underperform compared to what we're trying to accomplish already.

I'm not saying "this could never conceivably help," but I'd like to keep our trade dealings, ah... focused. Concentrating on things that specifically are likely to lead places we wouldn't otherwise go, rather than adding tons and tons and tons of extra speculative ideas and notions that are largely redundant with things we're already accomplishing with lizardpower.

It's one thing to recruit humans to work alongside us within our own territory as subjects. I'm not sure I want to bring in elven explorers to roam our lands and do the things we'd normally do ourselves. The elves are a foreign country, and in the strength of their golden age are powerful enough to be a serious threat to us. Keeping them a bit at arm's length from our internal affairs might be for the best.

The elves are likely to be colonising the tip of the Southlands soon anyway, and I'd much prefer to premept that and get them used to the idea that we grant them permission to do so rather than them doing it without asking and us not being able to do anything about it and deciding they are fully within their rights to do so.
I think that's more the goal of our diplomatic outreach towards the Everqueen, not so much this hiring of mercenaries. If anything, hiring elven mercenaries to roam the territory may make them MORE interested in colonizing. They'll see lots of land, just waiting to be reclaimed from orcs, and a tiny population of lizardmen who "aren't using it anyway." Not a good combination.
 
They won't know the terrain and may underperform compared to what we're trying to accomplish already.

I'm not saying "this could never conceivably help," but I'd like to keep our trade dealings, ah... focused. Concentrating on things that specifically are likely to lead places we wouldn't otherwise go, rather than adding tons and tons and tons of extra speculative ideas and notions that are largely redundant with things we're already accomplishing with lizardpower.

It's one thing to recruit humans to work alongside us within our own territory as subjects. I'm not sure I want to bring in elven explorers to roam our lands and do the things we'd normally do ourselves. The elves are a foreign country, and in the strength of their golden age are powerful enough to be a serious threat to us. Keeping them a bit at arm's length from our internal affairs might be for the best.

I think that's more the goal of our diplomatic outreach towards the Everqueen, not so much this hiring of mercenaries. If anything, hiring elven mercenaries to roam the territory may make them MORE interested in colonizing. They'll see lots of land, just waiting to be reclaimed from orcs, and a tiny population of lizardmen who "aren't using it anyway." Not a good combination.

We won't know the terrain either. Fantasy South Africa will have very different climate and terrain to Fantasy Congo.

I don't think we're ever going to have the Slann-power to found entirely new cities to occupy the Cape, and the elves are going to have a strategic imperative to control the those straits, while we don't, as otherwise we'll have a potential chokehold on access to their eastern colonies. I'd be more than happy to explicitly cede control of that temperate climate zone south of the jungles to them and head off any potential conflict before they can happen. I don't think the elves will be interested in the jungle.

We have a vanishingly small amount of labour. We can profit enormously from trade with people with a relative labour surplus, as the elves clearly do in this era.
 
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We won't know the terrain either. Fantasy South Africa will have very different climate and terrain to Fantasy Congo.

I don't think we're ever going to have the Slann-power to found entirely new cities to occupy the Cape, and the elves are going to have a strategic imperative to control the those straits, while we don't, as otherwise we'll have a potential chokehold on access to their eastern colonies. I'd be more than happy to explicitly cede control of that temperate climate zone south of the jungles to them and head off any potential conflict before they can happen. I don't think the elves will be interested in the jungle.

We have a vanishingly small amount of labour. We can profit enormously from trade with people with a relative labour surplus, as the elves clearly do in this era.
Given the complicating factors, I would like to give it some time before we take steps to invite elves to "fill space." Especially when their desire to fill that space is related to them having a strategic imperative to occupy a position to keep us from having a strategic advantage over them!

Let's not actively incentivize them to get a foothold faster.
 
[X]Plan Tying Up Some Lose Ends:
-[X]Spelunking: 1 die
-[X]Diving In: Huatza-Botl
-[X]Fleet Expansion: Xehtzaihl
-[X]Wall Repairs: 2 dice
-[X]Tower Repairs: Xilotl
-[X]Clearing Rubble- Temple of Huanchi: Awanabil'tat
-[X]Beast Pen Repairs: 1 die, Tehe'Tenq
-[X]Raising a Clutch: Gif'a-Gab
-[X]Getting to Know your Attendants: 2 personal dice
-[X]Trade with:
--[X] Sea Boiler: Buy all their silver and gems. Buy some cloth. Buy one or two barrels of wine, for study and for dawi entertaining. Ask for rare plants, as our lord has plans for a garden.
--[X] Waverunner: Buy all the timber. Buy some Ivory and Pelts. Ask the captain to deliver our chamelon skinks to a point further down the coast to expedite Spying On Orcs.(have them pretend to be normal skink scouts.) Offer shed Carnosaur teeth as currios.
-[X]Spying on Orcs: 1 Die
-[X]A Bigger Boat: 2 4th Generation Slann
-[X]Exorcism: 3 5th generation Slann
-[X]Purifying Crystal: 2 5th generation Slann
-[X]Linking the Harbor: 1 4th generation Slann, 1 5th generation slann
-[X]Prophecy of the Grass:3 3rd generation slann, 4 5th generation.

-------------------------
Okay, again, you guys are getting distracted by shiny research, when the most urgent thing we need Lord Wik's dice for is lizardman resources, and getting to know the last of our attendants. Even if they lack useful specialities, I consider spending 2 slann dice now to get 4 skink dice next turn to be so useful as to outweigh the other options. And if we do get 3-4 skinks with useful specialities-a skink chief who can lead troops, a master-mason for the walls and fortifications, a great priest, anything like that-then they might be worth 6-8 dice next turn. What does research unlock however? More stewardship actions to spend more dice on.

I've decided that keeping demon-armor around is probably unwise, and that we can use some wall repairs to go with our tower repairs, because both of them need renovations, and a smarter, cleaner city will also be one that our allies will respect more. To do this, I stripped the fleet expansion dice from Xehtzaihl. I also decided that ivory for ivory is a fair trade, and maybe we can use the elves as a delivery service instead of trusting them to do all the work. This is...somewhat dangerous, all our eggs in one elven basket in terms of spies, but I hope they can swim well enough to reach shore if the ship suffers an accident. Lord Wik spends all his attention on his skinks, and will spend half of it again next turn, if I have anything to say about it. I roughly equalize a bigger boat and a linked-up harbor, because magical fung shui and leylines are all the rage.
 
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Given the complicating factors, I would like to give it some time before we take steps to invite elves to "fill space." Especially when their desire to fill that space is related to them having a strategic imperative to occupy a position to keep us from having a strategic advantage over them!

Let's not actively incentivize them to get a foothold faster.

That's an attitude that assumes they're a threat and so makes it more likely to make them so. Much, much better to proactively defuse a potential flash point. Holding that land is worse than value-less to us from what I understand. It's a commitment to defend without giving us anything. We don't need a strategic advantage over them like that, although they probably won't understand that.

Space needs to be filled in Warhammer, otherwise it fills up with enemies and becomes a source of more problems in future.
 
we only have 1 action on attendants left to do so we can't get any more than 2 more characters
 
Yes, but any other third generation slann could do so too, and I don't think the Hive grants Lord Wik auto-successes with dragon turtles.

Working with dragon turtles sounds like zoology, not botany; ghur, not ghyran.

We'll totally take them on, but I think I want to build up the naval infrastructure itself, first.

Leadwood, not deadwood. Also, I want to emphasize that Lord Wik has some fairly significant actions they can take and that only they can take. I'd rather not get them bogged down in random Learning actions where the specific 'botany' bonus doesn't fire, unless there is a strong reason to do so. And I don't expect picking up dragon turtles one or two turns faster or slower to be decisive.
The Fivefold Hive works for flora and fauna.
 
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Fivefold Hive of Jade: Enhances Ghyran Spells when cast through. When you use your personal dice on a Learning action relating to flora or fauna, automatically add two successes. Do not roll.

Learning actions, not intrigue. Now, is this a learning action? Or is this a 'stalk the turtles and surreptitiously excavate eggs' option?
 
we only have 1 action on attendants left to do so we can't get any more than 2 more characters
Ah, no. You have 3 more times you can complete it before you've gotten to know all your attendants. It only needs 1 success, but it has limit of 3. Each time it completes the limit reduces, because there are fewer attendants for you to get to to know. I understand why that might be confusing - it's sort of in an odd position as an action.

Learning actions, not intrigue. Now, is this a learning action? Or is this a 'stalk the turtles and surreptitiously excavate eggs' option?
Mostly the latter.
 
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Ah, no. You have 3 more times you can complete it before you've gotten to know all your attendants. It only needs 1 success, but it has limit of 3. Each time it completes the limit reduces, because there are fewer attendants for you to get to to know. I understand why that might be confusing - it's sort of in an odd position as an action.
Ahhh, that does explain it!

Well, in that case, I think I am going to revise my plan to ignore the leadwood trees a while longer and spend two dice on attendants.

@Noroboro
@Mopman43
@Mortis
@Ifraka
@godofsmallthings
@ShadowNic94
@Frvborg
@DXCS
@buli-buli

I am replacing Lord Wik's "investigate leadwood tree" action with another round of attendant-getting-to-know-ing. Now that I realize we're much farther from completion of that action than I had once believed. If any of you want to abandon my plan because of that, I will of course not object.
 
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Vehrec Designs More Boats
also:


BOATES

Lizardman Cruiser:
A larger ship than a frigate, a Lizardman cruiser is built for long range voyages and for fighting battles. Three-masted and with a modified sailing rig for both long distance cruising and tacking into the wind, it is a versatile sailor, made more versatile by the use of weather-magic. Like a frigate, it has large decked-over extensions running out to smaller outriggers, but unlike a frigate these extensions and their outriggers are less removable, with canoes for landings being stored under the extension decks along with other supplies. The use of reed mats is much reduced, with much of the planking being of solid wood even on the outriggers, while the main deck and hull is covered in a fine plaster-cement that protects it from water and fire. This gives the ship the appearance of being made entirely of stone, even though it is mostly wood, with only the keels and major ribs being made of masonry. Cruisers are large enough to mount the lizardmen's artifact weapons, though few mount one, and fewer still mount two. Mounting even one of these weapons can radically change the purpose of a ship, changing it from a brawler-boarder design to a long-ranged artillery platform.

Crew Size: 200 to 450
Armament: 10-20 Greatbows, 0-2 Artifact Weapons, 20-60 mounted blowpipes.

Turtle Ship: A cruiser-sized ship built for short-range protection of a coastline, the Turtle Ship is propelled mostly by oars and enchantments in battle, raising it's sails and unfolding it's collapsable masts only to cruise from one sortie to the next. It's armor is it's most striking feature, for huge sheets of Obsinite and bronze cover the upper deck, shielding the crew from attack, and enabling them to keep safe and ready for boarding action. Salamanders, razordons, and even cold ones are frequently stashed under the shield, a nasty surprise in any boarding action-and the greatbows of the ship are fitted with harpoons and chains to bind to the enemy and draw them close enough to drop the ramps and charge across. Salamanders can burn the wooden lesser ships, or scorch away lines, sails, and sailors. Supremely deadly in hand-to-hand however, the Turtle ship has less than a stellar shooting armament.
Crew Size: 200 to 800 (in extreme boarding configurations)
Armament: 1-4 Greatbows and 20-35 Mounted Blowpipes

Temple Ship: The largest and most exceptional of the Lizardman fleet, rivaled only by the Black Arks, are the Temple Ships of Zlatlan. Each temple-ship is enormous, with no less than six masts, and the vast majority of it's structural supports are not wood or mere stone, but unflinching Obsinite, enchanted to lighten the mass enough to float. Too large for the multihull construction of smaller lizardman ships, the Temple Ship is instead built with about 100 seperate watertight chambers below decks, while at the rear of the ship rises an immense pyramid, crowned by the captain of the ship. There, beneath a modest sun-screen, and seemingly naked for all the world to see atop it's palanquin, squats one of the fabled Slann. The ship's entire structure, from it's anchors to it's terradon perches atop the masts, is a geomantic conduit built to empower this supreme wizard, and give them fabulous reserves of magic to draw upon. A temple ship becalms it's enemies, then rips them apart with magic from range. The Slann is not alone, either, and it's temple guards and attendant skinks add their own talents to any battle. Each temple ship also has a unique prow, with a enchanted figurehead, guardian statue, armored ram, or whatever the Slann dictates it must have. Each temple ship is a unique expression of it's Slann captain's interests and fields of study, tactics and strategy.
Crew Size: 600 to 3000
Armament: 1-6 Artifact Weapons, 20-30 Greatbows and 100-150 Mounted Blowpipes


Ship upgrades
  • Terradon Aviary This ship has an aviary and supplies to feed and maintain a scouting wing of sea-flying Terradons, able to scout far away fleets or deliver rocks from the sky onto an enemy's deck.
  • Geomantic Reinforcements This ship carries specially modifed mounts for it's various mounted artifacts-Solar Engines, Rejuvenation crystals, Engines of the Gods, mounts too large for even the greatest warbeast that magnify the artifacts power.
  • Star-reaching tower: A tower for a skink priest of the heavens to cast spells from, it reaches up towards the sky to conduct the winds of magic more effectively. Skinks on this ship cast further, and more powerfully.
  • Earthing Achor : A specially built geomantic anchor-dropping this slows the ship, but taps the life-blood of the world flowing through the seafloor, recharging magic of the ship's casters. The amount recharged depends on the auspiciousness of the location, a fact difficult to determine from above the waves.
  • Black-toothed Maw: An enchanted ram of Obsinite, which bites and chews through the hull of an enemy ship like the mouth of some great beast, though it is unmoving.
 
I've also made some modifications to my plan, to use both personal dice on attendants, and to incorporate @Simon_Jester's suggestions on using the third spawning slann and completing tower repairs faster.
 
@CuttleFish2.0

Will we have to upgrade all the way to temple ships before we can start moving slann by ship?
Nnnno. It'll start being possible once you have a respectable fleet of cruisers, enough that one or two slann can be safely guarded for 4-5. Though where it would be acceptable to send them is going to be very limited (basically just to Lustria - though given the length of the journey and the danger inherent in it the need for the specific presence of a slann on the voyage will have to be high - or somewhere in the Southlands when their presence is absolutely needed).
 
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Well yeah.

For the foreseeable future I can't imagine us sending slann anywhere except to Lustria or to our own ruined temple-cities and other similar sites.
 
Well, that settles it. Still, dubious about the prophecy, or at least tying up so many of our available Slann.


[X] Plan Crocodiles Take To The Water
 
Well, that settles it. Still, dubious about the prophecy, or at least tying up so many of our available Slann.
If things go the way I imagine them, our time averaged slann participation in prophecy-unraveling is going to be lower than this. It's just that the special temple device gives us an incentive to tackle prophecies all at once with a lot of slann at the same time.

Also, I'm pretty sure Cuttlefish didn't build that feature into the game just to waste our time. In canon the slann objectively do have the ability to predict the future, and this ability is often significant. I for one have no intention of outright neglecting practical concerns over prophecies and astrology, but I figure we should at least tidy up the loose end before launching our next wave of project.
 
Also, I'm pretty sure Cuttlefish didn't build that feature into the game just to waste our time. In canon the slann objectively do have the ability to predict the future, and this ability is often significant. I for one have no intention of outright neglecting practical concerns over prophecies and astrology, but I figure we should at least tidy up the loose end before launching our next wave of project.

I personally am pretty convinced that the prophecy of the grass is a direct reference to the southern orcs, and I'd like to have it completed before we deal with them.
 
I personally am pretty convinced that the prophecy of the grass is a direct reference to the southern orcs, and I'd like to have it completed before we deal with them.
Well, we might have to get lucky to finish it this turn, but we can almost certainly wrap it up next turn. We don't really have the slannpower to finish the prophecy except as a maximum-effort thing; weirdly it seems like the required number of successes INCREASED on us.

Turn 4: DC: 30. Successes Needed: 8. Reward: More of the Prophecy.
(score 3 successes)
Turn 5: DC: 30. Successes Needed: 8. Reward: More of the Prophecy.

@CuttleFish2.0 ... to be clear, do we need eight further successes on the Prophecy of the Grass, or only five? Because I might allocate a bit less slannpower to it in the latter case...
 
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