From the Hidden City (Warhammer Lizardmen Temple-City Quest)

I'm very much glad people enjoyed the war bits, and that they were followable!

There's only one thing that I missed.

We never saw a front line infantryskink's perspective. The skinks, who aren't as ridiculously strong and skilled as the saurus, probably view orcs very differently than the saurus scar-veterans who we see on the front lines, or the skink priests who stand way back and lob magic.
On the first, I thought about it a number of times, but there was never a solid narrative throughline that grabbed me for that sort of section. Hopefully in the future.
 
Yes. I was a bit surprised to have that be the last war turn, but when events unfolded in a way that let us mousetrap the bulk of Gobbreaka's army with a few quick maneuvers, the rest was effectively mop-up.

I just want to contact the Dwarfs. If we wait for all the fires to be out, we'll never do it.
I am supportive of sending an expedition to do this in the near future. If not literally next turn, the turn after.

Yes, the idea is that the extra energy might charge their spawning pools enough to fix that somewhat. Even if it doesn't, though, it'd still be my top priority for reconnecting the two webs.
The problem is that the spawning pools themselves are in a ruined condition- choked with rubble, scarred by combat, and in some cases actively corrupted by daemons.

It's like trying to fix up a factory where the machinery's been lying out in the open exposed to the elements for ten years. Just switching the power back on isn't going to start the machines running, because the machines themselves are busted. They will need significant examination and refurbishing in order to function correctly.

And as we've learned, restarting even one spawning pool is a significant undertaking, requiring work by large numbers of skilled masons and skink priests, who in turn require a large team of support and security personnel, and several dice worth of effort per pool.

Just plugging the pools back into the Web won't help, especially when the local geomantic power grids (city-glyphs) of each city is offline because the cities themselves are full of rubble and wrecked buildings.

Reconnecting the Southlands geomantic web to the Lustrian web would likely make a big difference for us, here in Zlatlan, because our city has the local city-glyph intact and in reasonably good condition. We're in shape to use an influx of geomantic energy. A fallen temple-city that's been smashed into rubble isn't, so it won't do much to restore the other Southlands temple-cities.

If just getting the web reconnected was enough, or even a significant step in the right direction by itself, then the fallen Lustrian temple-cities wouldn't remain offline despite being directly plugged into the denser Lustrian grid.

Lizardmen really power up based on the geo web which I think you are under estimating the effects.
I mean, the effects are a big deal, but they rely on multiple nested layers of precisely aligned power infrastructure. You need both the inter-city power grid and the city-glyph local grid to be working to really get the benefits, as far as I can tell, so we'll have a huge repair project to patch up the ruined city itself to the point where it can draw the necessary power.

We also just lost a bunch of laborers to fighting the orcs, which isn't helping.

Having said that my own preference is once we get our city intact is to start repairs on the city that is under off and on demon assault
We already took care of the daemon assault problem- that was coming out of Tlaqua.

Long term goal for me is getting the geo web back up and running along with all the cities and once we get a strong enough of a geo web in the area I imagine we can raise the sunken city more so if we can coordinate with Lustria and eventually restore the geo web link to Lustria.
I think we'd be a lot better off building a temple-ship that can serve as a geomantic web node on the ocean than trying to raise the sunken city. Raising a sunken city sounds like "Geomantic Ritual" tier stuff from @Xantalos Quest, and Zlatlan is in no way powered up enough to even try something like that.

I mean, if Mazdamundi, who is more skillful at manipulating terrain using geomancy, didn't try raising Chupayotl from the sea with full access to the Lustrian power grid, what the hell chance do we have of doing it from our end?

No, @BelligerentGnu is actually right about this even if it won't be easy.

We don't have the Lustrians' power reserves, and even they couldn't physically hoist the city out of the sea. We're better off doing something the Lustrians wouldn't think to try. You know, things like "remember to carry the two" or "try talking to the elves instead of randomly murdering them" or "just build a boat you morons."
 
I've been kind of ruminating on a far-future omake where some Marineburger merchants show up to trade and the Elves start hassling them for trying to muscle in on what's already a crowded market. Who do these humans think they are, taking twice as long as an elven merchant to sail this distance and barely arriving with a functional ship-surely they will not be given permission to dock!
 
Brothers
Brothers

Zille'mi had reaped many benefits from learning the humans' language. She would never have guessed how translating one's thoughts opened up entirely new perspectives. Perspectives about these strange, fascinating Vohlu, and perspectives about herself.

Currently though, what she was most grateful for was the additional vocabulary. Without it, Zille'mi would have never been able to so precisely identify her emotional state.

Zille'mi was fretting.

Fretting. Fret-ting. Even the staccato bounce of the syllables fit her mood, this quiet, active worry that demanded she be busy although she knew there was no benefit to taking further action. All was in place, the assigned lizardmen knew their roles, and moving now would only detract from the proceedings.

Still, she fretted.

The Vohlu were nearly all assembled in the large clearing now. They sat in rough semicircles on the soft earth, cross-legged and chatting idly between one another. Some otherwise unremarkable plant had come into seed recently, and bowls of this favourite snack were being passed back and forth, the fluffy white pods crunched into with obvious relish. Curiousity and confusion were the dominant expressions, but despite this there had been little difficulty in arranging the gathering. The lizardmen had earned enough goodwill that a couple of hours of time after sunset was no great request.

Behind her, lizards waited in utter stillness. Three kroxigors stood on each side of the southern edge of the clearing, facing each other in pairs. Each pair balanced a thirty foot wooden pole on their northern shoulders, and from those poles draped great sheets of bright cloth, hanging down to the white, limestone floor. Most of it was bright red, but the southernmost pair of kroxigor had a variety of poles to choose from, each featuring different cloths.

Zille'mi had been curious ever since the purchase of the elven cloth what use it could be put to. Truely, the foresight of the Slann was great beyond the scope of her vision.

Piecing this together had been the work of many years. Hours upon hours questioning Rheaminthys upon the finer points of the art. Years of time spent alongside the Vohlu, listening to their tradition of 'stories', assessing what concepts might best relate the Slann's intentions. The Slann, and no less Zille'mi, were determined to correct the mistake they had made when first approaching the Vohlu regarding agriculture. The Vohlu were intelligent and wise, but just like Zille'mi had lacked the perspective to know she was female, the Vohlu lacked the perspective to know what they could become. Tonight, Zille'mi would put the combined efforts of the lizardmen to bridge this void into fruition.

And with impeccable timing, the sun finally slid far enough below the horizon to plunge the clearing into deep shadow. Zille'mi drew back the hood of the 'storyteller's robe' Rheaminthys had assured her was required, and with a gentle breath of aqshy lit torches surrounding the clearing and in front of the stage. Equally subtle application of hysh amplified the light of the torches until the entire set was well lit. Zille'mi turned, and spoke the words she had rehearsed thousands of times, for the only time that mattered.

"Welcome, Vohlu. We wish to tell you a story."

Behind her, the northern pair of Kroxigor gently pulled their curtain open, and the Vohlu leaned forward with fascinated eyes.

***
"Once, long ago, there was a family. A Mother, a Father, and a young Son."

From stage left arrived two kroxigors, X'el and P'ar'pa'ant each wearing white robes cut from sailcloth, and upon their shoulders large, six foot tall bronze-and-gold cages. Intricate glyphwork decorated the outside of these cages, hand-smithed by Xilotl to careful shape. The overall effect was that of two massive beings with heads of gold, clearly resembling both lizardmen and Vohlu, yet matching neither.

They walked out to center stage then turned, and gestured behind them, and a young skink in matching white garb hurried after them, the three continuing together.

"The Mother and Father were builders, and they built a home for themselves and their Son."

On stage, the two kroxigors pantomimed digging and chiseling, as one backdrop of leafy green fell, and another painted with murals of well-made huts took its place.

"They were good parents, and raised their son well. They taught him to live well in the jungle. They taught him how to build fine huts, and bow-fish in the river, and how to hunt the tusk-pigs without being hunted in turn. They taught him how to fight the great beasts that might prey upon him."

Walks back and forth across the stage were used to show the passage of time, and the first skink 'son' was replaced by a larger skink, then a small saurus, then a larger saurus, and finally by Moa'na'tun, last living member of an ancient blessed saurus spawning, fully two feet taller than most saurus. When Moa'na'tun appeared, he was garbed as a successful Vohlu hunter, draped in fine furs and skins and carrying a massive bow.

"When he was grown, the Mother and Father spoke to him."

"Son." said the skink handler Mikra'xaf, from his perch in the cage atop X'el's head. "You have grown well. It is our duty to raise more Children, and build more homes. We are going to find new places to do this. Live well. One day, you may meet your Siblings. Watch for them."

"I will, Mother." said Moa'na'tun, pacing his words perfectly to the approved three-point-eight syllables per second.

"And so the Mother and Father left," said Zille'mi, gesturing behind her as backdrops rose and fell. "And they had further Children, and built them homes. They had a Daughter, for whom they made a home beside the sea."

A skink on the shoulders of another skink, concealed beneath a long white robe, did their best to move gracefully across the stage.

"They had a Younger Son, who found his place beneath the earth."

A cavern back-drop, and a saurus crouched beneath their robe to half their height, an enormous plume of nuum feathers hanging from their chin.

"Each of these they raised well, and taught to live well in their homes."

"At long last, they arrived back in the jungles, not so very far from where they began. They had one further Son, their youngest Child."

Here X'el and P'ar'pant appeared again, this time trailed by the skink P'ter'pat, one of Zille'mi's best students.

"But though they wished to build him a home, and raise him well too, this was not to be. Soon after his birth, a great flood came."

A line of skinks began running across the stage, holding a long curtain of blue cloth above their heads as the 'water' rushed by.

"The Mother and Father knew they were lost. With the last of their strength, they pushed their Child to safety."

Here X'el reached down and picked up P'ter'pat, hurling them off stage left, where they were gently caught by a handful of saurus. X'el and P'ar'pant then half-walked, half-tumbled off stage right, flailing as they went.

Zille'mi internally nodded in satisfaction. Teaching the kroxigors the concept of 'moderate, controlled flailing' had been the single greatest challenge of the production. Many mock sets had been lost before X'el had learned to control his Death Roll instinct.

"The Youngest Son might have died a thousand, thousand ways." Zille'mi continued. "So young, he would not even remember his parents when he was older. He did not know how to bow-fish in the river. He did not know how to build huts. He did not know how to hunt the tusk-pigs before they hunted him. Most of all, he did not know how to fight the great beasts that hunted him."

P'ter'pat made their way onto the stage, now in robes made from grain-sack cloth, looking about nervously.

"And yet. He did not die."

"The Youngest Son lived, and fought to live. He did not know which plants were good to eat, and so he ate them all, one at a time, and learned by becoming sick which were bad."

Winces, and audible murmurs of sympathy from the Vohlu at P'ter'pat's pantomimed agony.

"He had little food, and so could not grow large. But where he was not large enough to hunt, he survived by cleverness. He designed traps and snares to catch his food, and learned to avoid the great beasts who hunted, since he could not fight.

A different P'ter'pat, now - still clothed in sack-cloth, but with a semblance of shape, and draped in thin cords, carrying a wooden walking stick.

"Then one day, everything changed."

Here Moa'na'tun re-entered, the skink and saurus freezing as they 'saw' each other across the stage.

....two, three, four, Zille'mi counted in her head-

CLUNKCLunkclunkclunkunkunk, went Moa'na'tun's bow and P'ter'pat's staff, as skink and saurus simultaneously dropped their tools in 'shock'.

Another internal nod. Perfect, thought Zille'mi.

"I do not know you, and I am wary." said P'ter'pat, body half-turned between Moa'na'tun and the Vohlu.

"But I know you, Young One. My Mother and Father told me to watch for my siblings, and today I see one before me. You are my Brother, and I am yours." said Moa'na'tun, once again paced to exaction. Zille'mi was really most pleased.

"I do not have a Mother and Father." said P'ter'pat, "I am alone."

"This is not so." said Moa'na'tun, "at least, it was not. I felt our Mother and Father leave this world long ago, when you were very young. It is not surprising you do not remember."

"Were they a good Mother and Father?", asked P'ter'pat.

"They were. They taught me many things. Come. I will show you." said Moa'na'tun.

Zille'mi spoke once more as the saurus and skink walked offstage and back again, 'arriving' at Moa'na'tun's home.

"And they did so." she said, her voice carrying across the clearing, "And the Youngest Son saw the Eldest Son's fine hut, and the many fish he caught from the river. They ate of tusk-pig together, which the Youngest Son had never tasted, because he did not know how to hunt them."

"I wish you to come live beside me, so that we may prosper together." said Moa'na'tun.

"I do not think that is wise." said P'ter'pat, "I am not strong like you. I cannot build these huts, or catch fish, or hunt tusk-pigs. I catch only enough food for myself, and I am small. If we lived beside each other, I could not do as you do, and things would not be equal between us. It is better that we live apart."

"I do not agree." said Moa'na'tun. "You are strong. Mother and Father could not teach you to build fine huts, or bow-fish in the river, yet still, you found food. Yet still, you found shelter. Yet still, you survived. I am larger than you. But this is because I ate well, first when Mother and Father fed me, and later when I used what they taught me. I am not stronger than you. Only larger."

"But you are still large, and I am still small." said P'ter'pat. "You still can do what I cannot."

"That matters not." said Moa'na'tun. "I can teach you to build, and fish, and hunt. I can help you eat well. One day, you will be as large as I, and we will help each other equally."

"That will take a long time." said P'ter'pat. "Why would you do this?"

"Because you are my family." said Moa'na'tun. "Mother and Father loved you as they loved me. And because the great beasts wander the jungle at night, and I would like a Brother to stand beside when they come. Will you live beside me? Will you learn from me, and grow large, and one day stand beside me against the great beasts?"

Zille'mi let the hysh-light illuminating the stage fade, leaving only herself still visible.

***
The murmurs were quiet at first, then grew louder, until eventually /Vesa stood, voice harsh with upset.

"But what happened? That's not the end of a story - tell us how it ends!"

Zille'mi looked at the Vohlu, and spoke simply.

"We do not know how it ends. Because we are the Eldest Son. Our Mother and Father are the Old Ones, our creators. You are the Youngest Son. And we do not know your answer."

"So please," said Zille'mi, her throat strangely tight,"tell us your answer. We too wish to know the story's end. Will you learn from us, and grow large, and stand beside us against the great beasts of this world?"

"Will you live beside us as Brothers?"

A/N: I've been mulling over the question of how to approach the Vohlu for awhile now, given the difficulties we've previously had due to their different perspective (i.e., the Agriculture fail). Eventually I realized that the lizardmen actually have a tool in their arsenal to help bridge the gap, one they've already employed - plays, as brought to them by the elves. And once I had that idea, well...it kinda wrote itself.

I want to uplift the Vohlu (and all the other humans we can rope in) into an ally against chaos, but it's important to me that we approach the humans as
equals, right from the get-go. I want to make clear to the Vohlu that what we desire is an alliance, and that we're completely happy for that alliance to be unequal as the Vohlu grow, because we're patient, immortal lizards, and also because we trust the Vohlu to put as much back into the alliance as they can without hindering their growth.

I think a good early 'ask' for us from the Vohlu would be that a few of them act as ambassadors for us to other human tribes. We can figure out further contributions they can make as they grow larger.
 
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Brothers

.....

I think a good early 'ask' for us from the Vohlu would be that a few of them act as ambassadors for us to other human tribes. We can figure out further contributions they can make as they grow larger.

I loved reading this, and I think it's a worthwile way to approach the issue. 1 thing I am worried about though is how fast we should help the humans to develop into a mighty state. I think we should, but I really am uncertain on the speed.

This is because in our history introducing peoples to new forms of government / war / organisation / etc was often followed by widespread social unrest as the growing pains of centuries of 'natural' development was compresed into a period of twenty years. Combine that with the new unkown factor of Chaos still in the world (which OOC we players know still corrupted people inside Sigmars Empire of Man ever 2000 years after the transition from tibal society to early modern period-type society) they might turn out to be a treat instead of an ally. On the other hand, by helping them grow and teaching them wat we know, the chances of them turning against us are far lower than if they grow all by themselves.
 
I loved reading this, and I think it's a worthwile way to approach the issue. 1 thing I am worried about though is how fast we should help the humans to develop into a mighty state. I think we should, but I really am uncertain on the speed.
Given realistic human reproductive rates and the fact that the Vohlu are but a small tribe, it will be many centuries before they become a mighty state...

This is because in our history introducing peoples to new forms of government / war / organisation / etc was often followed by widespread social unrest as the growing pains of centuries of 'natural' development was compresed into a period of twenty years...
So I wouldn't worry.

Combine that with the new unkown factor of Chaos still in the world (which OOC we players know still corrupted people inside Sigmars Empire of Man ever 2000 years after the transition from tibal society to early modern period-type society) they might turn out to be a treat instead of an ally. On the other hand, by helping them grow and teaching them wat we know, the chances of them turning against us are far lower than if they grow all by themselves.
Yeah, we've got a lot of advantage in terms of founder effect and being present from the beginning. In particular we are in a position to direct and channelize how these humans engage with magic.

We have, right here, the slann who taught the elves their High Magic. Who oversaw the dwarven Ancestor Gods as they invented runecraft. Give Lord Wik'keer'mal a few centuries to work out a suitable magical curriculum for the short-lived cho'mundi'khanx, and he should be able to work out something at least as good as Teclis could manage for the Empire.
 
Given realistic human reproductive rates and the fact that the Vohlu are but a small tribe, it will be many centuries before they become a mighty state...

So I wouldn't worry.

Yeah, we've got a lot of advantage in terms of founder effect and being present from the beginning. In particular we are in a position to direct and channelize how these humans engage with magic.

We have, right here, the slann who taught the elves their High Magic. Who oversaw the dwarven Ancestor Gods as they invented runecraft. Give Lord Wik'keer'mal a few centuries to work out a suitable magical curriculum for the short-lived cho'mundi'khanx, and he should be able to work out something at least as good as Teclis could manage for the Empire.

We'rw also, I think, a lot closer the the equator, so the Winds of Magic are much weaker, and the frequency of people with the spiritual mutations that make humans sensitive to them much, much rarer, so the magic question is enormously less of a problem over all, as it should barely be present in their society.
 
We'rw also, I think, a lot closer the the equator, so the Winds of Magic are much weaker, and the frequency of people with the spiritual mutations that make humans sensitive to them much, much rarer, so the magic question is enormously less of a problem over all, as it should barely be present in their society.
Ehhh. We're actually well over into the southern hemisphere, so we're dealing with the Winds from the south pole instead. I'm not sure how the latitude compares, but it's a relevant consideration.

We know for a fact that Cool Vohlu Lady who we were following for several decades was a magical sensitive, for instance. She just had no training and no cause to develop it.
 
Ehhh. We're actually well over into the southern hemisphere, so we're dealing with the Winds from the south pole instead. I'm not sure how the latitude compares, but it's a relevant consideration.

We know for a fact that Cool Vohlu Lady who we were following for several decades was a magical sensitive, for instance. She just had no training and no cause to develop it.

We're in the south, but we're apparently also in jungle terrain, meaning we're stillin the tropics, I think.

She might have been a magical sensitive, exceptionally rare doesn't mean there are none of them. However, what we know she wasn't doing was unconsciously shaping the Winds into primitive spell forms when she wanted or felt something strongly, like someone with her talents closer to the Poles would be, from the fact that she wasn't going mad and mutating from the effects of using multiple Winds.
 
I'm just eyeballing it on my phone, but I'd personally say we're about as far from the Southern Wastes as the Empire is from the Northern Wastes.

Zlatlan is pretty far south on the continent.
 
Trying to make sense of ecological-geographical conditions of the southlands in terms of normal real-world physics is something I deliberately decided against at basically the outset. I mean, how do you explain a massive jungle straddling both sides of a continent splitting mountain range? By bare physics the patterns of atmospheric circulation should make one side dried at least. And yet the continent straddling jungle. So, don't rely over much on sensible patterns of latitude and geography to dictate things.

For Quest Canon; heavy jungle extends a bit south of the Yuatek River before thinning out into more regular temperate forest scattered with plains, before turning into a largely savanna/grassland/semi-desert mixture to the southern coast.

-Image Snipped-
From the looks at the map we are quiet close to the southern wastes
As with all things produced by Warmbloods do not rely on such maps over much. Four-fifth of the people who make such maps have never even sailed south of Araby, much less seen the Southern Wastes. And even Elven mapping leaves much to be desired (by the will of the Old Ones they overemphasize the size of Ulthuan by often as much as twenty-percent). The Southlands don't approach quite as close to them as that map might suggest.
 
I think those... might be counterproductive. The addictive properties are stronger and harder to overcome when used in quantity. Plus, slann lethargy isn't JUST a function of sleepiness; there are other, more significant/deeper things going on there.
Yes, but by tackling one aspect, we can be more able to deal with the other effects, and considering how positive an impact that coffee has already made, other forms of stimulants could possibly have a similar improvement of our state of affairs. Going on the same line of thinking, it turns out that alcohol and opioids are chemicals/drugs that we should avoid, due to their depressing effects likely interacting poorly with a lizardman's natural lethargic nature. This means the use of painkillers for lizardmen is quite dangerous, and therefore in any surgery, it is likely that the patient would be conscious for it.
 
Yes, but by tackling one aspect, we can be more able to deal with the other effects, and considering how positive an impact that coffee has already made, other forms of stimulants could possibly have a similar improvement of our state of affairs. Going on the same line of thinking, it turns out that alcohol and opioids are chemicals/drugs that we should avoid, due to their depressing effects likely interacting poorly with a lizardman's natural lethargic nature. This means the use of painkillers for lizardmen is quite dangerous, and therefore in any surgery, it is likely that the patient would be conscious for it.
I think you need to dial back that edginess.

Firstly, we have access to magical healing that makes painkillers largely irrelevant; lizardmen run on magitech very heavily.

Secondly, doubling down on taking multiple stimulants is not necessarily healthy or wise in general; they're not just consequence-free stackable bonuses, but rather psychoactive drugs.
 
As with all things produced by Warmbloods do not rely on such maps over much. Four-fifth of the people who make such maps have never even sailed south of Araby, much less seen the Southern Wastes. And even Elven mapping leaves much to be desired (by the will of the Old Ones they overemphasize the size of Ulthuan by often as much as twenty-percent). The Southlands don't approach quite as close to them as that map might suggest.
So, the Southlands look roughly like that map, but there's more water in-between them and the Southern Wastes?
 
I think you need to dial back that edginess.

Firstly, we have access to magical healing that makes painkillers largely irrelevant; lizardmen run on magitech very heavily.

Secondly, doubling down on taking multiple stimulants is not necessarily healthy or wise in general; they're not just consequence-free stackable bonuses, but rather psychoactive drugs.

Further, we don't even know that Aziki is a one-to-one analogue for coffee (probably is, but we can't be certain it's a perfect match), or that any other RL stimulant exists in Mallus. If someone really wants to pursue this route, the best thing to do would be to vote for completing Wik's Temple Garden, to give us more native Mallus flora and fauna to examine.
 
Given realistic human reproductive rates and the fact that the Vohlu are but a small tribe, it will be many centuries before they become a mighty state...
yeah, but if we want to help our young sliblings I expect it will not just be the the Vohlu, and that a large number of other humans tribes get integrated as well. For genetic variance if nothing else.

Yeah, we've got a lot of advantage in terms of founder effect and being present from the beginning. In particular we are in a position to direct and channelize how these humans engage with magic.

We have, right here, the slann who taught the elves their High Magic. Who oversaw the dwarven Ancestor Gods as they invented runecraft. Give Lord Wik'keer'mal a few centuries to work out a suitable magical curriculum for the short-lived cho'mundi'khanx, and he should be able to work out something at least as good as Teclis could manage for the Empire.

That is true, our diplo-slann gives us a large advantage. Still, Cuttle ask us to write in what we want from them if we contact them to help them 'grow'. Perhaps the best thing to do as our nest step is teaching them more about the Old Ones and the history of the world? Try and see if they develop 'healthy' religious and cultural practices?

On the one hand I don't want to detirmine for them what is good and bad, that would both feel moraly wrong and have the potential to backfire if they feel oppresed. On the other hand we have a responsibility toward the Old Ones and the Great Plan and allowing junior partners to make mistakes becase they lack our 'Wisdom' is not really lizard-ly.
 
yeah, but if we want to help our young sliblings I expect it will not just be the the Vohlu, and that a large number of other humans tribes get integrated as well. For genetic variance if nothing else.
Yes, but the integration is going to take a long while any which way. We cannot plausibly gather enough hunter-gatherers to create a large city-state in less than centuries, especially when many of the ways and means the humans will need in order to live together are things they're going to have to work out for themselves.

That is true, our diplo-slann gives us a large advantage. Still, Cuttle ask us to write in what we want from them if we contact them to help them 'grow'. Perhaps the best thing to do as our nest step is teaching them more about the Old Ones and the history of the world? Try and see if they develop 'healthy' religious and cultural practices?

On the one hand I don't want to detirmine for them what is good and bad, that would both feel moraly wrong and have the potential to backfire if they feel oppresed. On the other hand we have a responsibility toward the Old Ones and the Great Plan and allowing junior partners to make mistakes becase they lack our 'Wisdom' is not really lizard-ly.
Well, informing them about certain basic facts about the nature of the world- what magic is, what beastmen and such are, and so on- probably wouldn't be a bad start. And since worship of the Old Ones seems to be at least harmless in the sense of "not actually causing Chaotic energy explosions or anything," it's a decent channel of their activities. While also being a way in which humans can be implicitly equal with the lizardmen, since lizardmen worship the Old Ones too.
 
Yes, but the integration is going to take a long while any which way. We cannot plausibly gather enough hunter-gatherers to create a large city-state in less than centuries, especially when many of the ways and means the humans will need in order to live together are things they're going to have to work out for themselves.

Well, informing them about certain basic facts about the nature of the world- what magic is, what beastmen and such are, and so on- probably wouldn't be a bad start. And since worship of the Old Ones seems to be at least harmless in the sense of "not actually causing Chaotic energy explosions or anything," it's a decent channel of their activities. While also being a way in which humans can be implicitly equal with the lizardmen, since lizardmen worship the Old Ones too.
I like this angle, essentially we're providing a safe haven for any human tribes or individuals that want it, but for those that don't we still provide vital information and a way to build bonds with us that will at least keep them safe...ish from chaos.
 
I think the Vohlu and any human tribe we interact with will end up worshipping the Old Ones though sheer cultural osmosis even if we do not do anything on that front.

On the matter of teaching, now that we have some rapport built we should probably start poking them towards agriculture. We should be subtle at first, maybe teaching them how seeds work and letting them figure stuff from there.
 
I don't think we want to create large city states of humans. Lots of small towns spread across the countryside seems a lot more effective
 
I don't think we want to create large city states of humans. Lots of small towns spread across the countryside seems a lot more effective
Well, here's the complication.

Normal civilizations put their big cities where it makes economic and logistical sense to do so- with rivers nearby for irrigation and transportation, and so on.

Lizardmen... do not do this. Lizardmen put cities where the mathematics of geomancy says the cities should be.

As such, there are probably a lot of places civilized humans would want to put sizeable towns and cities in the Southlands, which would serve as natural locuses of transportation and organization, but which aren't the lizardman cities. It's not going to be as simple, in the millenia-long long run, as "no big human cities."
 
Well, here's the complication.

Normal civilizations put their big cities where it makes economic and logistical sense to do so- with rivers nearby for irrigation and transportation, and so on.

Lizardmen... do not do this. Lizardmen put cities where the mathematics of geomancy says the cities should be.

As such, there are probably a lot of places civilized humans would want to put sizeable towns and cities in the Southlands, which would serve as natural locuses of transportation and organization, but which aren't the lizardman cities. It's not going to be as simple, in the millenia-long long run, as "no big human cities."
In a way, wouldn't this be beneficial? As they'd be setting up cities in areas that the Lizardmen would leave alone, thus using space that isn't being competed for, as well as providing locations that either can be used for rest/trade, or producing resources that can be found locally to transport elsewhere
 
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