The Long Night Part Three: Bonfire at Dawn (45k)

Those have ton of UDM which we are about to run short tied in them, so I'm leery about sending them away instead of scrapping them.
The Trust admiralty is opposed to scrapping ships on principle. So we have Earthquakes despite the great desire to just scrap Earthquakes by the ship designers.

(It probably kills the Machine Spirit as well so I guess the Mechanicus would be unhappy.)
 
Also we have all these allies who can use lower tech ships, like why scrap when you can delegate?

We get allies who need our help less, they get more tonnage and guns to throw at people we don't like, we get to save on maintenance, they get to save on build speed, and the mechanicus stays off our asses. Everyone wins, except Chaos, but no one likes them.

Edit: Also if we ever figure out a shipgirl ritual they'll be more agreeable about the whole process if they didn't get treated like shit the first time around.
 
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Question, do we know anything about Nurma's wife and two husbands+small dynasty of descendants? Because it would be funny for the staff/Rotbart's old subordinates to adjust to the governor going from 'emotionless admin killing machine who if not for his now long dead wife/kids would be firmly asexual.' to 'we have Mr.Kessel 1, Mr.Kessel 2 and Ms.Kessel plus more descendants than we can count.'

I really should write them up, but the general idea I have them are a wife who's an diplomatic dule specialist, a husband who grew up under a fate curse that left them very survival focused and another husband who's a hand burn out who acts as a hosue husband to keep her house in order.
 
Any Defence Fleets (Completely outmoded at this point) - Although this is more a Trust political issue.
That's not worth trying at all. We have very limited political capital. I don't think we'll even get all the NMN donations we want. I can't agree with even bringing that up when it's guaranteed to fail anyway.

Donating Fissure would cripple the New Model Navy, leaving it without a capital.
The NMN does not exist by itself. It would be deployed alongside runic units. Like I'm going to advocate keeping all of the NMN escorts, but I want that to bulk out the screen for our Runic cruisers, since we're significantly under-screened. The lack of NMN cruisers would not be a problem.

Earthquake would too but the required engine refit for it to keep up means its probably better to send it off to someone with slower fleets while we build more Deus IIs with the saved CPs.
Earthquake is so bad that it would be better to scrap it to build new ships with the parts if we could. It is not going to get refits. We can't scrap it but we can at least get rid of it.

Oh forgot Twister. Worth keeping too.
Twister is going to get upgraded to full Runic navy quality.

Also we have all these allies who can use lower tech ships, like why scrap when you can delegate?
Because in theory scrapping gives you back a third of the investment in ships in resources, including shipyard time, representing all the parts you can use to build another ship with. The Earthquake is so bad compared to our new build ship designs that one third of its value in new ships is more powerful.

So if we could scrap, we could turn that scrap into more combat power worth of new ships. Plus there's the UDA.

So my revised perspective on the navy:
Screen:
Golem, Zephyr: upgrade and retain
Torch: retain for now, don't bother upgrading
Hail: either donate, or retain and upgrade

Close to 90% of the screen is golems and zephyrs. So we'll be able to add like 20 battlefleets of screen to shore up the weakness of the runic navy there. The golems are like 90% as good as Dust, the Zephyrs like 2/3rds as good. So this is a very useful benefit.

Cruisers:
Blaze, Scorch: Donate
Fissure and Cloud: Retain and upgrade

Fissure and Cloud are both inferior to Promethean and Storm, I wouldn't want to pit them against more than 50% their number in those. But they would win against 50% their number, and so they are worth keeping. These make up 50% of our NMN capital battlefleets.

Supercap:
Gjallarhorn: either donate, or retain and upgrade
Gridarvol(-R): Retain and upgrade
Boulder: Refit to Mirums, removing it from NMN and adding it to full Runic navy item
Mirums: Upgrade to runic navy level

Presuming that Boulders and Mirums are a similar proportion to the last time we got a breakdown, they should be somewhere around a quarter of the NMN supercaps. So we could potentially move 1 battlefleet from NMN to Runic.

Hypercap:
Twister: Refit to Surtr or Oracle, removing it from NMN and adding it to Runic Navy
Inferno: Retain and refit
Hurricane: Retain and refit
Earthquake: Donate

Sadly Twisters are only about 10% of the hypercap fleet, so we're not going to get a notable amount pushed over.

This is generally based off the idea if a ship is better than 50% as good as a runic navy equivalent we should keep it, and if it's worse donate it. Sadly the Fissure of all things makes the cut. Hurricane is terrible on damage, but its durability is quite good. Hail and Gjallarhorn are interesting because they're definitely good enough to keep, but their niche would better suit the Unchained war than our own modern navy.

Speculation on what the sheet looks like after:

Total Trust Naval Forces
BattlefleetsRunicNew ModelTotal
Screen242145
Capital41546
Supercapital11 (likely +1)213
Hypercapital4 (unlikely +1)26
Total8030110

Interestingly only end up giving away about a quarter of the New Model Navy, even in the case of assuming giving away the Hails and Gjallarhorns. Though given escorts effectively take no maintenance, it should reduce the maintenance requirement of the NMN fleet by like 50%.
 
Ngl how do Runic Model Ships stack up to other factions ships? I assume all the Elder races shit sorta scoffs at our shit but compared to like what the black imperium can actually reliably field?
 
Actually I don't think eldar ships are that much better than ours. During the DaoT their primary advantage was the psy angle, and while we're still not on their level there the gap is orders of magnitude smaller.
 
Not sure how we should phrase the argument, but I think for phrasing I would say:

[] A Traditional Gift: Dark Age Designs + Portions of New Model Navy (Scorch, Blaze, Earthquake + Hail, Gjallahorn)
-[] From the extensive analysis of the ship designers, the benefits from naval runes and technological advancement accrued unevenly across the New Model Navy ship refits. In specific, the Scorch, Blaze and Earthquake classes from the NMN were evaluated to be less than half as capable compared to an equivalent ship from the Runic fleet, so donating them to free up shipyard time is much more viable than other NMN ships.
--[] The Earthquake in specific also happens to elegantly slot into the Ophelian situation where countermeasures to Void Kraken deployments have forced a concentration of Ophelian naval assets/shipyards/defences.
-[] In regards to the Hail and Gjallahorn classes, although quite capable ships, they don't fit the current doctrine of the Trust Fleet. However, their armament loadout and design fits the present conflict in the Unchained very neatly, and would therefore have an outsize value in the Ophelian War compared to being in the Trust Navy.

@Durin

Would this Compromise DAOT/NMN position + Argument work?
 
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The NMN does not exist by itself. It would be deployed alongside runic units. Like I'm going to advocate keeping all of the NMN escorts, but I want that to bulk out the screen for our Runic cruisers, since we're significantly under-screened. The lack of NMN cruisers would not be a problem.
Even if that was the case, and to my knowledge DAoT fleets have been operating separate from NMN ones, losing Fissure means forcing the Runic Fleet to double down on building Prometheans to compensate for the resulting lack of capitals in the combined fleet.

Twister is going to get upgraded to full Runic navy quality.
Its not:
10) To confirm, can Tachyon be added in physical refit of Twister? Not a new build variant design.
10) yes


So my revised perspective on the navy:
Screen:
Golem, Zephyr: upgrade and retain
Torch: retain for now, don't bother upgrading
Hail: either donate, or retain and upgrade

Close to 90% of the screen is golems and zephyrs. So we'll be able to add like 20 battlefleets of screen to shore up the weakness of the runic navy there. The golems are like 90% as good as Dust, the Zephyrs like 2/3rds as good. So this is a very useful benefit.
Zephyr with it's Light Armor is not a great fit to our new doctrine though. I suppose if we are starved for screen... and it would mean having some NMN harass capability... OK I can see it. Fast Harassers seem to be a no so just refit Zephyr, Hail, and Clouds for S9 and keep them to provide harass cover for NMN.

But we should really be building more Small Shipyards.

Torch can be refitted easily and cheaply so I figure why not? Also provides a template for if we ever want more of them. I know that they are not necessary but they do their job well and very, very cheaply.

Cruisers:
Blaze, Scorch: Donate
Fissure and Cloud: Retain and upgrade

Fissure and Cloud are both inferior to Promethean and Storm, I wouldn't want to pit them against more than 50% their number in those. But they would win against 50% their number, and so they are worth keeping. These make up 50% of our NMN capital battlefleets.
Agreed here. Though this will make NMN half strength capital wise making them imbalanced, we should most likely second some Promethean-Gs to them to compensate.

Supercap:
Gjallarhorn: either donate, or retain and upgrade
Gridarvol(-R): Retain and upgrade
Boulder: Refit to Mirums, removing it from NMN and adding it to full Runic navy item
Mirums: Upgrade to runic navy level

Presuming that Boulders and Mirums are a similar proportion to the last time we got a breakdown, they should be somewhere around a quarter of the NMN supercaps. So we could potentially move 1 battlefleet from NMN to Runic.
You are considering keeping Gjall? I feel its such an ill fit for us that other powers are sure to have better use for it than us.

Hypercap:
Twister: Refit to Surtr or Oracle, removing it from NMN and adding it to Runic Navy
Inferno: Retain and refit
Hurricane: Retain and refit
Earthquake: Donate

Sadly Twisters are only about 10% of the hypercap fleet, so we're not going to get a notable amount pushed over.
Twister can not be physically refit with Tachyon, that needs a new build of a variant design (Surtr, Oracle). I say swap a reactor to get rid of No Hulks, do an otherwise minimal refit, and keep them in NMN for HA support.

Otherwise fully agree.
 
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Not sure how we should phrase the argument, but I think for phrasing I would say:

[] A Traditional Gift: Dark Age Designs + Portions of New Model Navy (Scorch, Blaze, Earthquake + Hail, Gjallahorn)
-[] From the extensive analysis of the ship designers, the benefits from naval runes and technological advancement accrued unevenly across the New Model Navy ship refits. In specific, the Scorch, Blaze and Earthquake classes from the NMN were evaluated to be less than half as capable compared to an equivalent ship from the Runic fleet, so donating them to free up shipyard time is much more viable than other NMN ships.
--[] The Earthquake in specific also happens to elegantly slot into the Ophelian situation where countermeasures to Void Kraken deployments have forced a concentration of Ophelian naval assets/shipyards/defences.
-[] In regards to the Hail and Gjallahorn classes, although quite capable ships, they don't fit the current doctrine of the Trust Fleet. However, their armament loadout and design fits the present conflict in the Unchained very neatly, and would therefore have an outsize value in the Ophelian War compared to being in the Trust Navy.

@Durin

Would this Compromise DAOT/NMN position + Argument work?
it would
 
[X] Plan DaemonHunter 113th Council
-[X] Spend Time with (Lord Commander Athenos of the Imperial Trust Guard)
-[X] Minister of State
--[X] Vote for Ambassador to the Empire of Ashes Asger
---[X] Galactic events mean that power projection of the Trust in other areas of the galaxy is necessary. The Empire of Ashes is the primary power through which the Trust has done this historically.
-[X] Minister of Finance
--[X] Vote for Eldar Gloin of the Mining Guild
---[X] With a dual shortage of metal and AM, it's important to ensure the economic base is secure.
-[X] Minister of Intelligence
--[X] Vote for Minister of Intelligence Suraj Sharman
---[X] The accelerated pace of military operations mean that more aggressive, external intelligence operations are needed.
-[X] Minister of Science and Technology
--[X] Vote for Master of the Forge Raziel Veles of the Blood Dragons
---[X] Now more than ever, new weapons of war are critically needed.
-[X] Minister of War
--[X] Vote for Lord Commander Athenos of the Imperial Trust Guard
---[X] With the focus on external operations in the galaxy, the Trust's logistics will undoubtedly be put to the test. Best to have an expert in the field in position to help manage it.
-[X] Ministers without Portfolio
--[X] Vote for Chapter Master Halaliel Uther "The Steadfast of the Blood Dragons
--[X] Vote for Eldar Snora of the Vestri League
-[X] MIlitary Support Target
--[X] Military Support Target: Realm of Death
---[X] While the Trust's performance against the Realm of Death or on the Unchained Front would be equivalent, Quartus' would not. Best to ensure our allies are sent where they are best suited.
-[X] Finishing Them Off
--[X] Finishing Them Off: Wipe out the Local Chaos Polities + Conquer one daemonworld
---[X] Both polities will be the weakest they ever will be in the near future. Taking advantage of it to crush them is only prudent.
---[X] It would also be good to expand trade with the rest of the galaxy. While it would be ideal to conquer more than one, the naval shipping requirements would be hard to meet.
-[X] A Traditional Gift
--[X] A Traditional Gift: Dark Age Designs + Portions of New Model Navy (Scorch, Blaze, Earthquake + Hail, Gjallahorn)
---[X] From the extensive analysis of the ship designers, the benefits from naval runes and technological advancement accrued unevenly across the New Model Navy ship refits. In specific, the Scorch, Blaze and Earthquake classes from the NMN were evaluated to be less than half as capable compared to an equivalent ship from the Runic fleet, so donating them to free up shipyard time is much more viable than other NMN ships.
----[X] The Earthquake in specific also happens to elegantly slot into the Ophelian situation where countermeasures to Void Kraken deployments have forced a concentration of Ophelian naval assets/shipyards/defences.
----[X] In regards to the Hail and Gjallahorn classes, although quite capable ships, they don't fit the current doctrine of the Trust Fleet. However, their armament loadout and design fits the present conflict in the Unchained very neatly, and would therefore have an outsize value in the Ophelian War compared to being in the Trust Navy.
-[X] Expansion
--[X] Expansion: Halt
---[X] The tempo of operations means that it's unlikely we could protect another colonization wave.

Alright, as it's been a few days, here's my proposed plan on the council votes. The main focus I've gone with is a rather aggressive strategy which would spread our forces fairly thin, which is why I'm not donating the NMN ships.
 
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[X] Plan DaemonHunter 113th Council
-[X] Spend Time with (Lord Commander Athenos of the Imperial Trust Guard)
-[X] Minister of State
--[X] Vote for Ambassador to the Empire of Ashes Asger
---[X] Galactic events mean that power projection of the Trust in other areas of the galaxy is necessary. The Empire of Ashes is the primary power through which the Trust has done this historically.
-[X] Minister of Finance
--[X] Vote for Eldar Gloin of the Mining Guild
---[X] With a dual shortage of metal and AM, it's important to ensure the economic base is secure.
-[X] Minister of Intelligence
--[X] Vote for Minister of Intelligence Suraj Sharman
---[X] The accelerated pace of military operations mean that more aggressive, external intelligence operations are needed.
-[X] Minister of Science and Technology
--[X] Vote for Master of the Forge Raziel Veles of the Blood Dragons
---[X] Now more than ever, new weapons of war are critically needed.
-[X] Minister of War
--[X] Vote for Lord Commander Athenos of the Imperial Trust Guard
---[X] With the focus on external operations in the galaxy, the Trust's logistics will undoubtedly be put to the test. Best to have an expert in the field in position to help manage it.
-[X] Ministers without Portfolio
--[X] Vote for Chapter Master Halaliel Uther "The Steadfast of the Blood Dragons
--[X] Vote for Eldar Snora of the Vestri League
-[X] MIlitary Support Target
--[X] Military Support Target: Realm of Death
---[X] While the Trust's performance against the Realm of Death or on the Unchained Front would be equivalent, Quartus' would not. Best to ensure our allies are sent where they are best suited.
-[X] Finishing Them Off
--[X] Finishing Them Off: Wipe out the Local Chaos Polities
---[X] Both polities will be the weakest they ever will be in the near future. Taking advantage of it to crush them is only prudent.
-[X] A Traditional Gift
--[X] A Traditional Gift: Dark Age Designs
-[X] Expansion
--[X] Expansion: Halt
---[X] The tempo of operations means that it's unlikely we could protect another colonization wave.

Alright, as it's been a few days, here's my proposed plan on the council votes. The main focus I've gone with is a rather aggressive strategy which would spread our forces fairly thin, which is why I'm not donating the NMN ships.
Are you adding invading another daemonworld or two to increase trade bandwidth, or have you decided against that?
 
[X] Plan DaemonHunter 113th Council
-[X] Spend Time with (Lord Commander Athenos of the Imperial Trust Guard)
-[X] Minister of State
--[X] Vote for Ambassador to the Empire of Ashes Asger
---[X] Galactic events mean that power projection of the Trust in other areas of the galaxy is necessary. The Empire of Ashes is the primary power through which the Trust has done this historically.
-[X] Minister of Finance
--[X] Vote for Eldar Gloin of the Mining Guild
---[X] With a dual shortage of metal and AM, it's important to ensure the economic base is secure.
-[X] Minister of Intelligence
--[X] Vote for Minister of Intelligence Suraj Sharman
---[X] The accelerated pace of military operations mean that more aggressive, external intelligence operations are needed.
-[X] Minister of Science and Technology
--[X] Vote for Master of the Forge Raziel Veles of the Blood Dragons
---[X] Now more than ever, new weapons of war are critically needed.
-[X] Minister of War
--[X] Vote for Lord Commander Athenos of the Imperial Trust Guard
---[X] With the focus on external operations in the galaxy, the Trust's logistics will undoubtedly be put to the test. Best to have an expert in the field in position to help manage it.
-[X] Ministers without Portfolio
--[X] Vote for Chapter Master Halaliel Uther "The Steadfast of the Blood Dragons
--[X] Vote for Eldar Snora of the Vestri League
-[X] MIlitary Support Target
--[X] Military Support Target: Realm of Death
---[X] While the Trust's performance against the Realm of Death or on the Unchained Front would be equivalent, Quartus' would not. Best to ensure our allies are sent where they are best suited.
-[X] Finishing Them Off
--[X] Finishing Them Off: Wipe out the Local Chaos Polities + Conquer two daemonworlds
---[X] Both polities will be the weakest they ever will be in the near future. Taking advantage of it to crush them is only prudent.
---[X] It would also be good to expand trade with the rest of the galaxy. While it may stretch us to conquer another two daemonworlds, the economic advantages are immense.
-[X] A Traditional Gift
--[X] A Traditional Gift: Dark Age Designs
-[X] Expansion
--[X] Expansion: Halt
---[X] The tempo of operations means that it's unlikely we could protect another colonization wave.

Alright, as it's been a few days, here's my proposed plan on the council votes. The main focus I've gone with is a rather aggressive strategy which would spread our forces fairly thin, which is why I'm not donating the NMN ships.
Could you add in parts on the NMN fleets to the Dark Age Design donation, specifically as so? Three of them are substantially more inferior than the rest of the NMN, and two of them should have far outsize impact on the Unchained conflict:
Not sure how we should phrase the argument, but I think for phrasing I would say:

[] A Traditional Gift: Dark Age Designs + Portions of New Model Navy (Scorch, Blaze, Earthquake + Hail, Gjallahorn)
-[] From the extensive analysis of the ship designers, the benefits from naval runes and technological advancement accrued unevenly across the New Model Navy ship refits. In specific, the Scorch, Blaze and Earthquake classes from the NMN were evaluated to be less than half as capable compared to an equivalent ship from the Runic fleet, so donating them to free up shipyard time is much more viable than other NMN ships.
--[] The Earthquake in specific also happens to elegantly slot into the Ophelian situation where countermeasures to Void Kraken deployments have forced a concentration of Ophelian naval assets/shipyards/defences.
-[] In regards to the Hail and Gjallahorn classes, although quite capable ships, they don't fit the current doctrine of the Trust Fleet. However, their armament loadout and design fits the present conflict in the Unchained very neatly, and would therefore have an outsize value in the Ophelian War compared to being in the Trust Navy.

@Durin

Would this Compromise DAOT/NMN position + Argument work?
 
New questions and answers. Time flies I guess.
1) Would it be worthwhile to make pinprick attacks on KoC to improve the damage that Kobas deals? I am thinking mostly suicide Void Kraken Attacks to soften a bunch of planets ahead of time, negligible cost, minor effect, potentially fatal
1) yes but not your responsibility
the Minsiter of War will conduct the war as he sees fit, you aer voting on wether to set destoying Confusion as an objective

2) Would now be the time to propose sending some reinforcements to Ishiro to resolve the Ork civil war there, or is that too small-scale/below abstraction to bring up since it's just a single planet?
2) below abstraction

3) noticed a peculiarity. The Troll Purestrain ability seems like it either shouldn't work with Adamant Bones at first glance, or they would have it as an inherent effect. I may be just overthinking it
3) nah, adament bones is about the material the bones are made of, while the troll is about replacing the gaps within the ship

4) Where is the Council of Peoples intervening?
4) various sites
Unchained, Death, Silver Skulls and Vect

5) Has KoC been outed as Belakor's bolthole?
5) one of them yes

6) Has it shown any new and hereto unknown capabilities?
6) no

7) It's mentioned Quartus would do better on the Unchained front than against the Realm of Death. Is this also true for the (non-Avernite) Trust, or is it basically equivalent for them?
7) its equivilent for them
well, for Guard or above which is the trusts main expeditary force and has modernised basic power armour as standard
(yes, that is where most of the Trusts AM is going, along with their rail rifles)

8) Can we get a general description of the Realm of Death's primary force composition?
8) Nurgle
main numbers are low grade but tough cultists
killing is done by either astarts or bioweapons
killing them tends to summon deamons

9) Are Chrono-Displacers mundane technology, Sa-tech, or Ka-tech?
9) mundane

10) Does Saurus Relic-ification acceleration power get stronger as they age?
10) yes, slightly

11) Have AOs pants upgraded yet?
11) no
he does not ahve that power
it was added in a later version

12) Is it accurate to put Abryke down as a destroyed Thousand Light, or was it part of a larger polity?
a) Around when was it eaten by Tyranids? I don't recall any details, other than more than three hundred years after the Emperor's death (since that was when Rutbart died)
12) destoyed thousand light
a) around 700 years post emeprors death

13) Are there any Daemon-Worlds left within 200 Ly of Avernus?
13) no

14) If the trust were to be transported back to when the Great Crusade first started, how would they react diplomatically to the Imperium? Would they try to join it, have a treaty like the mechanicum did, or would they be hostile to it?
14) has the council of Poeples gone back too?
if yes try desperatly to convince the Emperor not to commit sucide by picking that fight
if no try and go for treaty as long as they maintain enough inderpendence
with one of the big issues being the trusts aliens citizens, which it would not sacrifice for the Emperor
also its wierd religion that has the Emperor as a fallen form of its god and hopes that he betters himself

9) In that scenario, would the whole "The Imperial Trust is from the future" thing be something that Braindamaged!GreatCrusade!Emperor would be able to grasp? Or would his psychic brain damage make him go: "Does not compute?"
9) he would view it as a wierd what if thrown out by the warp

15) Does Archmagos Arx bring anything to the table in terms of specific skills (like Fozaeth's familiarity with a different technological tradition, or Veles's mass implementation of military tech), or is he inferior there to the other candidates and entirely about AdMech connections?
15) better ties to the AdMech and use of awakened machine spirts

16) Can we write in a proposal to take the last of the nearby daemonworlds?
16) yes

17) Suggestion for something to put in the references post: Ribbit's Project.
17) good idea

1) how well does the Light of truth burn out nurgles clouds of plagus and swarms of small mosnters?
1) its very good at it

1) would the avernite forces be more efficnet helping the unchained or agaisnt the relm of death?
1) could be argued either way

1) How do we already have 80 battlefleets of Runic navy? Based on the shipyards we had at the start of the thread we should only have like 30 battlefleets at most if we had started producing them at the start of thread. And I doubt our shipyards have tripled since then.
1) you started producing it last thread

2) Of course proposing legalizing the worship of other gods would get Nurma (or even Frederick) lynched by the Trust, but what about Avernite humanity specifically?
2) you are unsure

3) How big of an issue would it be for the Unchained to maintain the New Model Navy?
3) they could do it for a few decades, things would start breaking down after that

1) Can our Imperial Era ships make a credible claim to being the last surviving remnant of the Imperium?
1) nah a decent number of deamonships
And various Astartes
And custodies
4) Out of curiosity, since those Daemonships and the Imperium Fleets would both be 'The Last Remnant of the Imperial Navy', would the Imperial Fleets have special advantages against those Daemonships if they ever clashed? (Basically thinking Narrative equalizing the effects of Daemonships)
a) By any chance would many of those Daemonships be held by Ophelia?
4) could be
a) many are

6) Is this guy still alive? The Long Night Part Two: Sparks at Midnight: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k)
6) unknown

7) Have we been upgrading the ultra-secure vault in Dis with new technology as we obtain it, or is it kind of out of date at this point?
7) yes

8) Are border lions half-daemon or all-mortal?
8) all mortal

10) I don't naval stat-ese, roughly how much stronger is our runic navy when compared to the our New Model Army navy?
10) not quite double

11) Was Malcador essentially panickedly running damage control on Big E's awful plans the whole time, trying to shut down the Great Crusade in a way that wouldn't have his boss vaporize him for insubordination?
11) a lo of the time yes
others he thought were good
he was the overly ruthless one who the Emperor would point out when he was going too far too
and did not do well with the roles reversed

1) Was Malcador just a naturally occuring 1 in a how ever many, given his strength, stability and how early he came in humanity's psychic reawakening?
1) sort of
the stability was actualy not nateral
he just had the luck to awaken as a psyker as a baby
10 meters from the Anatolion
who prevented the explosion, took him under his wing and taught him control

1) Is that arguably luckier, or given how unlikely it would be for a human psyker of that power to be born with stability is that arguably still more unlikely?
1) it is

6) Was the Anatolian being there a coincidence, or did he already know Malcador was a psyker beforehand and was standing there waiting for Malcador to awaken?
6) coincidence as far as you know

2) Is what happened to humanity's psychic development (it kinda vanishing for a pretty long time then coming back weird) attritable to the Shamen, emps, the dragon, all three or is it not entirely weird?
2) all three

3) ...I must know. Have either Muspelheim or Nilfheim reintroduced Lego?
3) Muspelheim has

2) Muspelheim has: Still the bane of feet everywhere?
2) yes

4) A more serious question, was Nilfheim aware of what was up with Muspelheim or were they kept mostly in the dark for operational security?...well not operational, but you know what I mean.
4) they were
they actualy use the AI a lot for their weirdness

5) And to clarify something, cause I can't find it how long was Charles champion of Muspelheim? The impression I got was that he held quite closely to his beliefs and so only took over for a life time on occassion?
5) he was on Muspelheim for around a third of its existance
and was Champion for maybe a third of that

3) How well does the 'We should colonize a bit (~no more than a subsector) so that rolling up the industries dedicated to colonization is more gradual/graceful' argument go for colonization halt? Like
3) not needed
you are still colonsing 4 sectors right now
and will be for the enxt 50 years

1) Wildlife idea: giant psychic parrots, potentially a cavern/abyss thing. Perfect copying of psychic abilities via angry squawking, even things they shouldn't be able too 😛
1) viable
sounds cavern

2) How many Battlefleets does the Trust produce per turn currently?
2) 1.6/year
minus whatever is needed for repairs
actuly I missed something in the spreadsheet
1.2 a year

1) What military actions become inadvisable if we donate the NMN?
1) none in particular
its just what will be done with them will change
your support for allies will become almost entirly ground for example

1) How much % of the Unchained Navy Strength would our gift represent for each of the options?
1) 2%, 5%, 35%

1) Is it a valid option to hand over NMN over time, at the rate of, let's say, half a battlefleet for each Runic battlefleet we build?
1) yes

2) Can we hand over parts of the NMN fleet and keep other parts? I am thinking keeping the screen and donating the rest.
2) you can argue to do so

3) What is the vote currently looking like for the Traditional Gift in terms of support for various options?
3) main support seems to be Dark Age Designs
would need a good argument/role for either of the others

4) Since Rotbart is in this specific vote, do we get some of his bonuses for some of the votes?
4) you dont

5) What TL are the unchained at?
5) really hard tos ay
some bits of them are advanced as you
others are 12

6) If we vote to both finish off the local Chaos polities and donate the NM navy, are we only donating the older ships first until we finish the campaigns, and then handing over the NM ships? Or is this something we have to specify now to prevent our campaigns from suddenly lacking the required navy?
6) yes

14) What did Lt Gen Rebecca Agani die of anyways? The turn where she died (83) just says that with no listed cause
14) I dont remember
7) Could you do a quick reroll to pin the cause down?
7) Spider

8) What TL are we at?
8) 24

9) Is Trust intersted in the Fast Harassers (S11) concept?
9) not really

10) To confirm, can Tachyon be added in physical refit of Twister? Not a new build variant design.
10) yes

11) With NDC becoming good enough to grant +25% Base Weapons trait, what could Tranth do these days? That trait is better than all of his previous work it seems.
11) try and find out

12) If Avernite forces are sent to the Realm of Death instead, do we only have to the initial embassy/coordination set-up with one diplo action, or will we have to go through the whole a-diplo-a-turn flashpoints song and dance again?
12) only the inital

13) Is Ghyran more effective against Nurgle than the other Chaos gods due to the conceptual links to life and healing?
13) no
a big part of his narrative is twsted life

1) Did you intend for the Original 3 Chaos Gods to be based on what the OO did during the WiH?
Nurgle - OO Twisting Life for War (Krork, Eldar, Other species that didn't make it)
Khorne - Duh
Tzeentch - The Time War
1) no
if I was feeling kind I would say that GW did
as I was just following canon as far as I can tell

1) Have we seen any changes to Nurglite doctrine from the new domains by now, or are they still figuring it out?
1) still figuring it out

2) Is it accurate to say that both Ghyran and Shyish are less effective against Nurgle due to his domains and narratives?
2) yes

3) Is using technical discussions from the Ship Design Discussion as part of the arguments OK for this vote?
3) yes

4) Do Realm of Death deployments still come with flashpoint updates?
4) yes

1) Is Aqshy more effective against Nurgle due to the narrative of fire burning away physical taint and sickness, and passion counteracting despair?
1) yes

2) Is the skill of the NDC influenced by the activeness of the naval design containment thread?
2) slightly

3) Has Mort been a major part of the war or is he being more subtle/backlines?
3) more backline

4) Has the Mother of Death been active against the Realm of Death?
4) no
she has never left Avernus

5) About what % of humans in the galaxy are chaos these days?
5) somewhere in the range of half

6) Can Ophelia Jameson be reasonable considered the first stable human α Psyker since Malcador?
6) do you count astartes?

7) The description for Rakes says he's good at integrating "packers" into the military. Is that supposed to be "psykers"?
7) it s

8) Is there another wave of colonies beyond the three new sectors this high council that's already in progress?
8) yes
started 50 years ago

5) With that wave being the last until the Sane win or lose, how many sectors would the Imperial Trust have once this last wave has finished their colonization efforts?
5) 13

9) Can Tamia's rituals be used by other polities' psykers, or is it only Avernite/Trust psykers?
9) mostly only yours

1) I was just thinking, but how have our Djinn-Skein Gladiatora changed with Machine Spirit Awakenings? Since, well..
1) general improvment in fuctions
especily at mimicking psykers' powers

2) Who have the Assassins been pointed at these days?
2) Unchained

3) How long do we have before the vote closes?
3) a day or so

4) Would there be worth in using the new naval Adamant in a similar way as Ultra Dense Lattice? An even stronger material that frees up more volume in ships. Presumably not compatible with Adamant Bones
4) probebly possible
you dont have the designs

7) Can we use Runes of Fire on Graviton torpedoes?
7) yes

8) can we sacrifice the emperor to make Rotbart the god of humanity, so humanity can have someone more competent?
8)Rotbart would be a horrible god
utterly horrible

9) Behind the scenes, have you already determined what the various members of the Sane's anti-Dragon superweapon research division are working on? Or are you going to retroactively decided based on their research rolls whenever one of the projects reach completion?
9)not saying

10) PA: Gunship and Warships do not appear to incorporate Truemat Keystones
10) yes they dont
it will take some time before those are compelted

11) Besides the one we settled, are any of the other continents of Avernus consistently visible from orbit, or is it only this one?
11) you, the Khoswe one and the Lizardman one always are

1) Is the Space Warped Vale too messy for even the PM to trivially shift around?
1) yes

2) During the Grand Incursion, did the demonic assault have to traverse the Space Warped Vale?
2) there were bits that did

1) hows holden doing settling in with the unchained?
1) a few issues but not to many

1) are slan born with the same paragon trait or does each one get a unique one?
1) each gets one related to their spacility

2) Do Slann with the same specialty get the same paragon, or just different but very similar ones?
2) the same

2) Is Mikaelsson still governor of Vanaheim, or has he been replaced by now?
2) he has been repaced
mutliple times

1) How many Alpha Plus battle psykers would it take to match Magnus in a fight?
1) if they are standard battle psykers?
hw many mooks does it take to kill a hero

3) Can Machine Spirits accept Faith and use it?
3) no
 
Could you add in parts on the NMN fleets to the Dark Age Design donation, specifically as so? Three of them are substantially more inferior than the rest of the NMN, and two of them should have far outsize impact on the Unchained conflict:

After some thinking I will. While I'm personally unsure of it, I trust that the ship designers have done the math on it.
 
There are three demon worlds within easy reach of the Imperial Trust, and another two that can be reached. Conquering more of them will allow you to greatly boost your ability to shift resources and armies to other members of the Grand Conclave while removing possible bases for chaos to attack you. It will however require a major deployment of your best troops for every deamon world attacked, by which you mean Avernites.
So we took two daemon worlds last High Council meeting, which leaves three, 'one within each reach and another two that can be reached'.
 
Even if that was the case, and to my knowledge DAoT fleets have been operating separate from NMN ones, losing Fissure means forcing the Runic Fleet to double down on building Prometheans to compensate for the resulting lack of capitals in the combined fleet.
Did you even look at the current battlefleets listing? We have 41 battlefleets of runic capital ships to 24 battlefleets of runic screen. We already have way too many Prometheans. We need to integrate the NMN screen just to have enough ships to screen the Prometheans we do have.

Its not:
10) To confirm, can Tachyon be added in physical refit of Twister? Not a new build variant design.
10) yes
Twister can not be physically refit with Tachyon, that needs a new build of a variant design (Surtr, Oracle). I say swap a reactor to get rid of No Hulks, do an otherwise minimal refit, and keep them in NMN for HA support.
These bits were hilarious doublethink.

Zephyr with it's Light Armor is not a great fit to our new doctrine though. I suppose if we are starved for screen... and it would mean having some NMN harass capability... OK I can see it. Fast Harassers seem to be a no so just refit Zephyr, Hail, and Clouds for S9 and keep them to provide harass cover for NMN.

But we should really be building more Small Shipyards.

Torch can be refitted easily and cheaply so I figure why not? Also provides a template for if we ever want more of them. I know that they are not necessary but they do their job well and very, very cheaply.
We are starved for screen.

Refitting Torch will give essentially no benefit at the cost of not building another Dust. We will not ever want more of them. Storms may cost three times as much, but they can beat 7 Torches in a fight. And if they don't ever have to fight anything, then there's no point in a refit either. This is below the 50% mark on donation even, but I felt like keeping the Torches would at least fill in on some of the rear area patrols. If we had to refit them though they'd be better off given away instead.

You are considering keeping Gjall? I feel its such an ill fit for us that other powers are sure to have better use for it than us.
A refit could fit truly ridiculous amounts of firepower on them.

--[X] Finishing Them Off: Wipe out the Local Chaos Polities + Conquer two daemonworlds
---[X] Both polities will be the weakest they ever will be in the near future. Taking advantage of it to crush them is only prudent.
---[X] It would also be good to expand trade with the rest of the galaxy. While it may stretch us to conquer another two daemonworlds, the economic advantages are immense.
I'm not sure on this bit since only 1 of the daemon worlds will be within easy reach.
 
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7a) How far away is the last of the daemonworlds called "within easy reach" in the previous High Council?
7b) Same question for the nearer of the 2 daemon worlds labeled "that can be reached"?
7a) a few hundred light years
b) around twelve hungred LY
With this information from the Discord questions, I really think that only going for the closer of the daemon worlds makes sense. Defending the merchant shipping to make use of the more distant one would likely be too much of a drain on naval resources to make it worthwhile.
 
With this information from the Discord questions, I really think that only going for the closer of the daemon worlds makes sense. Defending the merchant shipping to make use of the more distant one would likely be too much of a drain on naval resources to make it worthwhile.

Based on this answer, I've changed the plan to just going after one daemonworld as I didn't realize it was that much of a difference.
 
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