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Get Jinxed: A Tale of Mental Instability and Poor Decisions (Arcane/League of Legends)

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Darkcore41 said:
Yes that Piltovers fault, the fact no one decided to build a government in all that time. Vander using his position could have. I'm fact he's the only thing allowing merchants to do business if we use episode one as an example. It's not like Piltover really cares and he made deals on behalf of everyone already.
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You cannot build a government when you're being occupied by someone else, or are a province of someone else.

Like, a key part of government is a monopoly on force. If Piltover holds a monopoly of force in Zaun, then by definition nobody in Zaun can. Any Zaunite government trying to use force to enforce it's own laws (like say, "don't assault people") would then be running afoul of Piltover's laws when it tried to enforce them.

You're simultaneously holding that Zaun is legitimately part of Piltover and that it's somehow been actually independent this whole time. You can't have it both ways - if Piltover does rule Zaun then they can't build their own government, and Piltover has been horribly oppressive to Zaun so revolution is justified. If Piltover does not rule Zaun then sending their armed forces in Zaun is an invasion and throwing them out is justified.

For what it's worth, both Vander and Silco do form some level of shadow government which fulfills some of it's functions - Vander ensures deals in the last drop are honored, Silco forms a council of the Chembarons.

And a bit of an aside, but Vander's Lanes is absolutely a criminal operation too. The primary purpose of the Last Drop is likely to have a place in which deals for smuggled and stolen goods can be expected to be honored, with (and the other patrons who all benefit from an expectation that deals will be honored) essentially acting as the insurance that deals are honored, and then he presumably gets a cut in the form of patronage to his bar. Oh and Benzo is straight up a fence. And for all we know Zaun does have worker's councils and town meetings and stuff, it's just that none of that can be a full government if Piltover enforcers can come into Zaun and beat people up without repercussions. This is kind of a study in how Zaun cannot actually form a government without actual independence.
 
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Darkcore41 said:
Yes that Piltovers fault, the fact no one decided to build a government in all that time. Vander using his position could have. I'm fact he's the only thing allowing merchants to do business if we use episode one as an example. It's not like Piltover really cares and he made deals on behalf of everyone already.

Vander could have gotten together community leaders, created militias to crack down on crime and made sure industry wasn't Baron dominated. Instead he just gave up. I understand giving up the fight but he could have done things domestically. If he hadn't let things degenerate to the current point outside help likely wouldn't be needed.

Piltover didn't want to rock the boat combined with their general apathy. I agree piltover after the first attempted revolution should have invaded, cleaned up crime, invested in industry in the undercity and have children go to school. That woukd have killed any talk of revolution long term.
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I think vander was busy at the time somewhat replenishing his gang and raising vi and powder along with later mylo and claggor i think it's understandable including the raw loss of most of his friends and rather sour note he parted with silco him needing time to heal from that
 
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Darkcore41 said:
If you reread the first quote I was talking in relation to Powder. She has nothing to start with. The second quote is where I use Sikco as both an example an a cautionary tale since you were talking in generalities.


Yes that Piltovers fault, the fact no one decided to build a government in all that time. Vander using his position could have. I'm fact he's the only thing allowing merchants to do business if we use episode one as an example. It's not like Piltover really cares and he made deals on behalf of everyone already.

Vander could have gotten together community leaders, created militias to crack down on crime and made sure industry wasn't Baron dominated. Instead he just gave up. I understand giving up the fight but he could have done things domestically. If he hadn't let things degenerate to the current point outside help likely wouldn't be needed.

Piltover didn't want to rock the boat combined with their general apathy. I agree piltover after the first attempted revolution should have invaded, cleaned up crime, invested in industry in the undercity and have children go to school. That woukd have killed any talk of revolution long term.
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Defending Vander is an odd feeling for someone of my positions but nevertheless: No he couldnt have.

Exactly how do you think Piltover would react when they learn that the former leader of a revolution is organizing armed militias en masse and eliminating other power players in Zaun, leaving him as the only figurehead to rally behind?

They'd consider him an imminent threat, and immediately crack down to put a stop to it. Quite likely arresting or killing him.

Even more importantly, It doesnt work like that. Plainly, that's just not how you eliminate crime. It just factually doesn't work.

Crime lords aren't magicians who are summoned out of the ether when enough bad vibes are around. They, and crime in general, are the direct result of poverty faced by the population. The impoverished turn to crime not because they are "evil", but because they are poor and desperate and looking for a way to get by.

You could line every Chembaron up against a wall, and shoot them, and everyone who works for them.

New ones would rise within a week, because the socio-economic circumstances that created them in the first place are still around, and it will continue to be that way as long as Piltover is stamping down on Zaun.
 
I also think that just "Vander gave up on the fight against crime" is… a misunderstanding of what happened? Vander gave up on the fight against Piltover. Crime was not the problem he was fighting - if anything he was on the side of crime.

Like, we know Vander and Silco and a lot of Zaunites used to be miners. We know that Vander and Silco built the Lanes - and what we know of the Lanes suggest it's essentially an organized crime ring (likely smuggling stolen goods or something). We know his best friend is a fence. So in all likelihood Vander built a system of organized crime so that Zaun could actually see and benefit from some of the profits of the resource extraction business or docks, or use the docks to move their own merchandise, or something like that (obviously the details are nebulous).
 
voidwalker132 said:
doing something about barons and unwanted piltover influence in the lanes is definitly a down the road goal
to that end i'd suggest we start with lifting presure off zauns boot on our neck with a few smokescreen projects to keep the true research we're doing hidden from public eye.
after a few such projects we might be able to depending on circumstances at the time if things go south become chem-barons ourselves, become a sort of neutral territory leader (like vander and what i picture vanders bar as).
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Projects don't need to be hidden unless your hiding it from Silco. No one pays attention to anything unless it affects Piltover.

Swordswain said:
Exactly how do you think Piltover would react when they learn that the former leader of a revolution is organizing armed militias en masse and eliminating other power players in Zaun, leaving him as the only figurehead to rally behind?
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They did nothing when exactly that happened when Silco took over. The council doesn't care what Zaun does.

Swordswain said:
New ones would rise within a week, because the socio-economic circumstances that created them in the first place are still around, and it will continue to be that way as long as Piltover is stamping down on Zaun.
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That's why I said if at the beginning he had started to build industry like Silco did but without the illegal drugs he could have dodged the bullet of Barons.
 
Swordswain said:
Crime lords aren't magicians who are summoned out of the ether when enough bad vibes are around. They, and crime in general, are the direct result of poverty faced by the population. The impoverished turn to crime not because they are "evil", but because they are poor and desperate and looking for a way to get by.

You could line every Chembaron up against a wall, and shoot them, and everyone who works for them.

New ones would rise within a week, because the socio-economic circumstances that created them in the first place are still around, and it will continue to be that way as long as Piltover is stamping down on Zaun.
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the saying nature abores vacum is very fitting for this scenario. if vander would create a power vacum who's to say a few of the chem-barons underling's wouldn't rally the remnants under themselves and be even worse problems
he chose to deal with the devils he was familiar with rather then the unknowns that would have filled their shoes
 
Darkcore41 said:
Projects don't need to be hidden unless your hiding it from Silco. No one pays attention to anything unless it affects Piltover.
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at this point the chem-barons would be of concern expecialy if they saw a way to either make A) money B)weapons out of it same issue that lured jayce astray in cannon
Darkcore41 said:
They did nothing when exactly that happened when Silco took over. The council doesn't care what Zaun does.
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they didn't care because marcus was on silco's payroll and probably not reporting jack about silco's illegal dealings

Darkcore41 said:
That's why I said if at the beginning he had started to build industry like Silco did but without the illegal drugs he could have dodged the bullet of Barons.
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well that's reason two i suggested the side projects if we choose right projects they might not only obscure our reserch till we complete it but if we have a side project that benifits the lanes it might inspire others to put us under their "protection" we'd have to be carful of our choice of partners and projects though
 
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On hiding things - remember the Piltover council (and particularly people like Heimerdinger) does consider "the Undercity" part of Piltover. He in particular is going to care if we're like openly working on Hextech/magic. Others like Bolbok probably would too. If we move to Zaun we do have additional insulation from him learning that, since it's less likely to be reported and he'll be used to ignoring stuff, but we still can't get too blatant.

Edit: lol, they consider it part of Piltover.
 
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hailcapital said:
On hiding things - remember the Piltover council (and particularly people like Heimerdinger) does consider "the Undercity" part of Zaun. He in particular is going to care if we're like openly working on Hextech/magic. Others like Bolbok probably would too. If we move to Zaun we do have additional insulation from him learning that, since it's less likely to be reported and he'll be used to ignoring stuff, but we still can't get too blatant.
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that is very true and if we have a few non hextech inventions made while we're working out the quirks in the hextech, it might reduce pressure on us on the academy and sponsership front.
but still we should keep hechtech till it's in a presentible form secret
 
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hailcapital said:
On hiding things - remember the Piltover council (and particularly people like Heimerdinger) does consider "the Undercity" part of Piltover. He in particular is going to care if we're like openly working on Hextech/magic. Others like Bolbok probably would too. If we move to Zaun we do have additional insulation from him learning that, since it's less likely to be reported and he'll be used to ignoring stuff, but we still can't get too blatant.

Edit: lol, they consider it part of Piltover.
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The flipside of that is the Council in general and specifically Heimerdinger get exactly zero news from there except the occasional mandatory report from the Enforcers, who all have their own hustles and are happy with this state of affairs. So long as we do not blow up major profitable infrastructure or actively piss off the Sheriff, anything goes.
 
back to more immidiate concerns
the top 3 currently voted options are if i'm adding right
work on mouser bomb
bug vi annd caitlyn
and listen to sevika and vander talk about the past

of those three my top to lowest pick would be going from powders eyes(perspective)
work on mouser bomb
listen to sevika and vander talk about stories of the past
and distantly followed by bug vi and caitlyn (i have a feeling even if we don't do that right now we might get options to recruit them soon
i can see caitlyn joining as chief of security (need a more zaun sounding name for job title) can anyone say rebellious phase)
and violet selected as vanders representitive in negotiation's in regards to this project and other factions of zaun(need a good title for this position as well. (vander could possibly use the job as a test to see if violet can negotiate as well as she can fight (am i the only that see violet sorta being taught about leadership to take the mantle over from vander eventualy) .
 
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voidwalker132 said:
(i have a feeling even if we don't we might get options to recruit them soon
i can see caitlyn as chief of security (need a more zaun sounding name for job title) can anyone say rebellious phase)
and violet as vanders representitive in negotiation's in regards to this project(need a good title for this position as well.
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I feel like "recruit" is a bit ambitious - Vi is our older sister and Caitlyn is basically Piltover royalty, not to mention she's the daughter of the Hextech partnerships principle funder and patron.

I kind of assume that Cait/Vi is destined but if we can I'd like to ensure that our sister doesn't end up dating an enforcer or worse being an enforcer, although I think the better route to that might be through the Kiramman's wallet. Like, Hextech is going to be big - it's big enough that canon!Jayce's star eclipsed all of his backers without him even really trying that hard. Quite likely, in canon the council had some settlement that split the profits, but here right now it's all hers. When those profits start coming in, the hextech partnership could quite quickly become her biggest asset and something she'd dearly like to keep rather than have to share with the rest of the council.

And it is also, at least right now, both officially illegal (it is arcane magic), it's using illegal equipment (Benzo is a fence), and we'll be keeping it off the books. Play our cards right and they could all rapidly end up too deep both financially and criminally to back out.

"Haha, we lured you in with technological advances and money, and now you have to care about poor people!"
 
hailcapital said:
1) I feel like "recruit" is a bit ambitious - Vi is our older sister and Caitlyn is basically Piltover royalty, not to mention she's the daughter of the Hextech partnerships principle funder and patron.

2)I kind of assume that Cait/Vi is destined but if we can I'd like to ensure that our sister doesn't end up dating an enforcer or worse being an enforcer, although I think the better route to that might be through the Kiramman's wallet. Like, Hextech is going to be big - it's big enough that canon!Jayce's star eclipsed all of his backers without him even really trying that hard. Quite likely, in canon the council had some settlement that split the profits, but here right now it's all hers. When those profits start coming in, the hextech partnership could quite quickly become her biggest asset and something she'd dearly like to keep rather than have to share with the rest of the council.

And it is also, at least right now, both officially illegal (it is arcane magic), it's using illegal equipment (Benzo is a fence), and we'll be keeping it off the books. Play our cards right and they could all rapidly end up too deep both financially and criminally to back out.

3)"Haha, we lured you in with technological advances and money, and now you have to care about poor people!"
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1) recruit was probably the wrong word i figured vander would pick vi or somebody if he supplies the property to keep and eye on his investmnet and powder
2)i just saw a vision of what cannot be unseen chem-barons caitlyn and vi
3)mwhahaha i love it
 
Building bombs now has a one-vote lead over being a bratty little sister with six hours to go. If we end up in a tie, the dice gods will decide who wins.
 
Last 6 hours. Vote difference of 2 between mouser bombs and bug caitlin and vi in mouser bombs favor. Get your vote in now for one of these two if you haven't already. Second week in a row tinkering on bombs alone, or fun shenanigans taking the shit out of Powder's older sister and the pompous piltie?
 
(funny non-cannon thought for this story, i hope )
if bug Caitlyn and Vi wins and goes too well, or badly why am i getting visions of
Violet issue
Severity: -2
"Violet's my big sister, and she's awesome and great most of the time, but sometimes I hate how she always looks down on me and treats me like a little kid.
turning into
violet and caitlyn
severity ????
violet treating me as a little kid was bad enough caitlyn seems to be taking sadistic pleasure in using me as dress and cutsy clothes) model , with violet helping (internal screaming) it doesn't. and when ever violet tries to convince caitlyn of the impracticality of a outfit they rent a private room at babettes and the next day violet has caved into caitlyn's will.
 
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Well, I gave it my all. Not a day for sibling ribbing I guess.

"Hey Powder what are you going to do tonight?"

"The same thing I do every night Ekko. Work on mouser bombs."
 
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can i be first to suggest not to use the experimental hex gem in the mouser grenade if tht win's, at this time for at least 3 reasons
  1. it'd be overkill for most situations which in the other situations might not be a bad thing
  2. don't know enough about it nor hopefuly desperate enough to try that yet
  3. we should master begome more reliably proficient in requler explosive's and maybe chem-tech explosives before touching the thought of making hextech that pourposly goes boom or shoots at people (ya know baby steps walking before running) or am i over thinking it
 
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