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After the Ashes: A Fire Nation Chancellor Quest

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krinsbez said:
it should be noted that how the Fire Nation feels about the Avatar is not...particularly relevant, although it will probably take a bit for that to sink in, because Aang has just delivered a short, sharp lesson in the most fundamental truth of ATLAverse geopolitics; there is always a bigger fish, and it's name is The Avatar.

So far as anyone can tell, he just effortlessly curbstomped the most powerful firebender in the world today, with Sozin's Comet in the sky, and then proceeded to equally effortlessly destroy the greatest triumph of Fire Nation military technology in an instant.

The reality is, of course, considerably more complicated and nuanced, but that is what the public is going to see.
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... You really thinks going to matter? Like, population with a lot less going for them than a century of martial dominance have refused to be cowed by superior powers before. Yes, perception is that the avatar is powerful, but everyone in that room, except for Zuko himself expected the war to continue. Zuko choosing to end it caught everyone off guard. Zuko being fire lord is relevant. The opinions and feelings of the fire nation population is relevant. Aang's victory, while relevant, is not nearly the all consuming deterrent to fighting on or opposing him that your perceiving it as.
 
Randino Treviani said:
... You really thinks going to matter? Like, population with a lot less going for them than a century of martial dominance have refused to be cowed by superior powers before. Yes, perception is that the avatar is powerful, but everyone in that room, except for Zuko himself expected the war to continue. Zuko choosing to end it caught everyone off guard. Zuko being fire lord is relevant. The opinions and feelings of the fire nation population is relevant. Aang's victory, while relevant, is not nearly the all consuming deterrent to fighting on or opposing him that your perceiving it as.
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Its absolutely going to matter because if we can't thread this needle then the Fire Nation is going to be humiliated yet again by a group of terrifyingly powerful pre-teens, and it'll have nothing but its own arrogance and greed to thank for it.
 
They think that cuz they don't know what he did to Ozai and the Airship fleet* yet. The ultimate expression of Fire Nation power and pride, the pinnacle of of their martial, technological, and even cultural might, has been shown to be utterly impotent in the face of the Avatar. Phoenix King Ozai literally had his face shoved in the dirt.

I don't think that is something they're going to be able to just...shrug off right away. In a few weeks, sure, because The Avatar trying to furiously backpedal the fact that they're a terrifying, unstoppable force of nature until everyone forgets it is a much of a recurring theme of the franchise as them periodically being forced to remind people. But tomorrow, there will be widespread panic that he's gonna raze the Home Islands to the ground.

(*That was actually Sokka, but I am pretty sure that's gonna be ignored)
 
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krinsbez said:
EDIT: EDIT: EDIT: Other sidenote: are we going to address the fact that, even though we are immune, it is canon that even with the giant burn scar, Zuko is an extremely attractive young man, which could be a potential asset.
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???. This is a thing? Like, he was the least popular with the ladies named male character in the series. I think even Iroh does better than him. Jet does better than him. Scars are certainly not an out and out looks issue, but I'm pretty sure Zuko's looks don't surpass his likely unwillingness and inexperience when it comes to leveraging them.
triumph8w said:
Its absolutely going to matter because if we can't thread this needle then the Fire Nation is going to be humiliated yet again by a group of terrifyingly powerful pre-teens, and it'll have nothing but its own arrogance and greed to thank for it.
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Yes, accounting for the victory and potential future conflict with team avatar is important for our plans going forward.
krinsbez said:
It should be noted that how the Fire Nation feels about the Avatar ATM is not...particularly relevant, because Aang has just delivered a short, sharp lesson in the most fundamental truth of ATLAverse geopolitics; there is always a bigger fish, and it's name is The Avatar.

So far as anyone can tell, he just effortlessly curbstomped the most powerful firebender in the world today, with Sozin's Comet in the sky, and then proceeded to equally effortlessly destroy the greatest triumph of Fire Nation military technology in an instant.
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But this proposal that Aang's victory has crush the fire nations will to resist and thus the opinions of the citizens of the avatar are not relevant in our considerations going forward is complete nonsense. The opinions of the populace do matter, no matter how impressive of a victory team avatar win.
 
...

I didn't say that it's going to "crush the Fire Nation's will to resist", I am saying that what they think about him right now doesn't matter, because it is going to radically change by the end of the day.

The focus will, at the very least, change from "Pfft, we can take the Avatar, he's not a problem" to "We need to find a way to keep The Avatar off our backs".

Also, the general public is probably going to panic for a bit, and we're going to have to deal with that.

And I agree that Zuko isn't the sexiest in-universe dude in the show, but he is demonstrably attractive and can be charismatic when he isn't trying to be, and that's something we might be able to use.
 
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krinsbez said:
I didn't say that it's going to "crush the Fire Nation's will to resist", I am saying that what they think about him right now doesn't matter, because it is going to radically change by the end of the day.

The focus will, at the very least, change from "Pfft, we can take the Avatar, he's not a problem" to "We need to find a way to keep The Avatar off our backs".

Also, the general public is probably going to panic for a bit, and we're going to have to deal with that.
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I'm not sure how much we can count on a unified response from the population, or on how much shift there will be. In accordance with fire nation propaganda, the avatar is supposed to be an inhuman monster. A feat of unparalleled might is par for the course.


krinsbez said:
And I agree that Zuko isn't the sexiest in-universe dude in the show, but he is demonstrably attractive and can be charismatic when he isn't trying to be, and that's something we might be able to use.
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I think Zuko is more endearing on an emotional level than charismatic? It's a bit more difficult to translate to speeches or negotiations, especially when the first hurdle is convincing him to put in the effort.
 
krinsbez said:
Other sidenote: are we going to address the fact that, even though we are immune, it is canon that even with the giant burn scar, Zuko is an extremely attractive young man, which could be a potential asset.
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I would dare you to tell this to him in person, lol.

Randino Treviani said:
... You really thinks going to matter? Like, population with a lot less going for them than a century of martial dominance have refused to be cowed by superior powers before. Yes, perception is that the avatar is powerful, but everyone in that room, except for Zuko himself expected the war to continue. Zuko choosing to end it caught everyone off guard. Zuko being fire lord is relevant. The opinions and feelings of the fire nation population is relevant. Aang's victory, while relevant, is not nearly the all consuming deterrent to fighting on or opposing him that your perceiving it as.
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This is a force which has defeated and eaten the soul of our previous Fire Lord, a divinely chosen ruler by Agni, possibly rose from the dead and oh, by the way, destroyed one of the most glorious fleets ever assembled by the Fire Nation. Yes, he very much is a exceptionally large threat who should loom in our head, especially as he now has control of the Avatar State (which he turns on several times during the Promise comic).
 
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Randino Treviani said:
The funny thing is, because of our pick for Main character background, it could genuinely come up, at which point I expect Zuko to just go "We aren't talking about this." "But lord Zu-" "No. Never bring this up again." while Katara descends into a giggling mess at his side.
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Our main character background is a Fire Lord Chancellor who is used to the presence of Ozai on the Throne, not to mention, some awareness of tact and being a Lesbian, not into Males anyway. I really do not think she'd say anything of the like.
 
Granite said:
[] a beautiful young woman, clad in the disconcertingly foreign garb so favored by the socialites and debutantes of the Colonies, though such was not a surprise given the fact that she stood foremost among them. While holding no official title, she was a sufficiently Popular Debutante to have attracted attention even within the home isles, an unusual feat for one so disadvantaged by the nature of their lineage. That alone was not sufficient to warrant her for this position, however; the fact that she'd carried modernist politics to the colonies was far more relevant to their reasons for meeting here tonight. The salons, reading groups, and rallies that she'd played a role in were… numerous, to say the least, and extended to those within the Fire Nation proper, where she was apparently seen as a prime exemplar of their goals. [Eloquent, Passionate, Popular Debutante, Modernist Inclination, Mid 30s]
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Earl Warren said:
Our main character background is a Fire Lord Chancellor who is used to the presence of Ozai on the Throne, not to mention, some awareness of tact and being a Lesbian, not into Males anyway. I really do not think she'd say anything of the like.
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The characters background is that of a pretty young woman who held no previous title but was sufficiently popular and accomplished in oratory methods to be worth considering for the position. Someone who literally made there rise on the exact exploitation of good looks, charisma, and eloquence that is being proposed to leverage with Zuko. Bringing up such a tactic as a manner of tackling one such situation or another would only be natural for her.
 
Earl Warren said:
*Edit: My apologies did not see the context. From Irohs perspective, I very much can see the boost and it is nessicarry for world peace and the like. Still would be fascinated to see the general answer though because Id love to know just how the FN justifies their war with Divinity and Nature itself
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Just to generally clarify my statement about Zuko's relationship with the Avatar: that was a point in his favor for Iroh, not the Fire Nation at large. The things I described there were reasons why Iroh might have opted to leave Zuko the throne.

Earl Warren said:
While were at it: What was the Race relations like in the era of Sozin which allowed the formation of the colonial culture and intermarriage while also fostering a Facist march of conquest for the entire world? Would be very interesting to say the least.
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There was typically a bigger emphasis on a vague idea of culture than a firm racial doctrine; that, combined with colonists marrying into local notables and the like, allowed it to become something of a norm there. The emergence of racial politics in the Fire Nation largely accompanied the suborning of the education system for political purposes, most notably Azulon's aggressive approach to censorship domestically. The colonies were generally offered less attention during his rule so those sentiments simply didn't spread as actively.

Earl Warren said:
What is the Fire Nation attitude towards the Avatar?
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The first time most people outside of the court have heard about him was when he destroyed the northern fleet and killed a lot of people. Typically speaking, there's an understanding that it's some kind of super-powered spirit being that hates the Fire Nation because it's free and enlightened. Amari's view is fairly common at the upper echelons, though not necessarily universal as Iroh has laid a bit of groundwork among his older contacts he thought might be receptive.

Limabot said:
On an unrelated note, some of the people in the voting have made choices without putting them within a plan. Will those votes be taken into account and added to the option totals when necessary, or will they be ignored for the sake of simplicity?
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I will probably ignore them for the sake of simplicity; don't want to get too into the weeds with this sort of thing as that invites further litigation.
 
Randino Treviani said:
I'm not sure how much we can count on a unified response from the population, or on how much shift there will be. In accordance with fire nation propaganda, the avatar is supposed to be an inhuman monster. A feat of unparalleled might is par for the course.
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Not at this level it isn't.

Again, this was supposed to be the moment the Fire Nation wins the Hundred Year War. This was the day the National Endeavor reaches fulfillment. It instead ended with the Phoenix King, a man who has spent the last five years presenting himself as the anthropomorphic personification of the Fire Nation, on his knees being mocked by a blind Earth Kingdom girlchild, while the Fire Nation's greatest technological innovation, the thing that crushed the last pathetic attempt to stop the Fire Nation's inevitable march to glory on the Day of Black Sun, was destroyed in an instant.

Given how up in the air and chaotic things are already, the idea that this won't spark a reaction is ludicrous to me.

I think Zuko is more endearing on an emotional level than charismatic? It's a bit more difficult to translate to speeches or negotiations, especially when the first hurdle is convincing him to put in the effort.
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I am pretty sure the girls sighing when he took his shirt off in "The Beach" were not interested in his emotional appeal (though that was, obviously meant humorously), but the fact that he has the least rizz of any member of the gAang (with the possible exception of Toph, since she doesn't appear to have much interest in that sort of thing ATM?) doesn't change the fact that he is notably decorative, even with the scar. And while it is not important right now, he's going to be doing some incredibly unpopular things, the fact that he's pretty is potentially useful.
 
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Limabot said:
Okay, that's fair. Is it okay if I warn those who would be affected in PMs, or is there a better way to handle that?
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SV policy is Pms or mentions are typically reserved for emergencies where a vote gaining traction is incorrect. Quoting is usually considered alright. Overall this is just a thing that happens in SV with more complicated votes and something that is likely to occur every now and again. Multi mentioning and pming about votes is typically frowned upon otherwise, in my experience.
 
Randino Treviani said:
SV policy is Pms or mentions are typically reserved for emergencies where a vote gaining traction is incorrect. Quoting is usually considered alright. Overall this is just a thing that happens in SV with more complicated votes and something that is likely to occur every now and again. Multi mentioning and pming about votes is typically frowned upon otherwise, in my experience.
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Okay, that makes sense. Given that 6 people (or 15% of current voters) seem to be using the wrong format, I may warn them via mentions here once the gets closer to closing.
 
Limabot said:
Okay, that makes sense. Given that 6 people (or 15% of current voters) seem to be using the wrong format, I may warn them via mentions here once the gets closer to closing.
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Actually two of those six are voting for plans and simply haven't erased there incorrect votes during the edits. jsnider3, mcclay, Theonetruelordke, RighteousRancor are the only ones not voting for a plan at this point. 10.26% as it were. Less than a handful out of several dozen voters isn't really an emergency.

Also, I seem to have already Quoted mcclay.
 
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[X] Plan: Truth and Contacts

[X] "This is acceptable, general; I will ensure he understands the situation and stress the importance of retaining the territories in these coming days. Though, perhaps it would be wiser to only bring a single regiment into Caldera itself, the other hidden but near enough to reinforce. Ultimately, I leave it to your judgement."
 
[X] "This is acceptable, general; I will ensure he understands the situation and stress the importance of retaining the territories in these coming days. Though, perhaps it would be wiser to only bring a single regiment into Caldera itself, the other hidden but near enough to reinforce. Ultimately, I leave it to your judgement."

[X] Plan: Interesting Times
 
[X] "They should fall back to positions better suited to sustaining a fighting defense; they should refrain from starting further trouble, but it would be irresponsible of us not to prepare them for it should the Earth Kingdom prove… less than receptive."

[X] Celebrations should be organized to celebrate the rise of Fire Lord Zuko.
[X] Executions of prisoners should be halted pending review.
[X] Looting should cease and discipline imposed upon those who continue.
[X] Records should be preserved and kept in good order for review.
 
chellewalker said:
[X] "They should fall back to positions better suited to sustaining a fighting defense; they should refrain from starting further trouble, but it would be irresponsible of us not to prepare them for it should the Earth Kingdom prove… less than receptive."

[X] Celebrations should be organized to celebrate the rise of Fire Lord Zuko.
[X] Executions of prisoners should be halted pending review.
[X] Looting should cease and discipline imposed upon those who continue.
[X] Records should be preserved and kept in good order for review.
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This needs to b in plan vote format.
[X] Plan: Truth and Contacts
-[X] "They should fall back to positions better suited to sustaining a fighting defense; they should refrain from starting further trouble, but it would be irresponsible of us not to prepare them for it should the Earth Kingdom prove… less than receptive."
-[X] Contact should be established with collaborating earth kingdom individuals of influence to undermine the earth kings attempts at a unified demand for the territories return
-[X] Executions of prisoners should be halted pending review.
-[X] Looting should cease and discipline imposed upon those who continue.
-[X] Records should be preserved and kept in good order for review.

[X] Plan: Interesting Times
-[X] "They should fall back to positions better suited to sustaining a fighting defense; they should refrain from starting further trouble, but it would be irresponsible of us not to prepare them for it should the Earth Kingdom prove… less than receptive."
-[X] Celebrations should be organized to celebrate the rise of Fire Lord Zuko.
-[X] Executions of prisoners should be halted pending review.
-[X] Looting should cease and discipline imposed upon those who continue.
-[X] Records should be preserved and kept in good order for review.
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These are the two leading plan votes. Your vote will not be counted if it is not in a plan format.
 
[X] "They should fall back to positions better suited to sustaining a fighting defense; they should refrain from starting further trouble, but it would be irresponsible of us not to prepare them for it should the Earth Kingdom prove… less than receptive."

[X] Celebrations should be organized to celebrate the rise of Fire Lord Zuko.
[X] Executions of prisoners should be halted pending review.
[X] Looting should cease and discipline imposed upon those who continue.
[X] Records should be preserved and kept in good order for review.

[X] Plan: Interesting Times
 
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