Remove ads

After the Ashes: A Fire Nation Chancellor Quest

Reader mode
[X] "She's a relative of the governor in Yu Dao… don't give me that look, young man, I know she's mixed, but the Fire Lord seems to hold a misplaced sympathy for foreigners and mongrels. She's a colonial, so we can at least expect her to know her place and heed our counsel; their kind is always quick to listen to their betters when it comes to this sort of thing, especially since she'll be without other friends in the court. More importantly, we can expect her to advocate for the interests of the colonies, which would hopefully offer a starting point in talking the Fire Lord down from whatever foolishness he might be contemplating in the colonies.
[X] "Moderate" (Loyal Clique, Personal Interest)
 
What we've said so far about the Avatar is true: his ruling is, effectively, final. However, the Avatar is also, presently, a 12 year old boy with a pack of friends. And one of his best friends is our new Fire Lord. Aang is not going to be chomping at the bit to smite the Fire Nation into oblivion now that Zuko is in charge. We talk to Zuko, we can get him on our side. If Zuko can talk to Aang, then we can get Aang on our side. If Aang is on our side, the rest of the world can kick rocks.
 
bookworm702 said:
What we've said so far about the Avatar is true: his ruling is, effectively, final. However, the Avatar is also, presently, a 12 year old boy with a pack of friends. And one of his best friends is our new Fire Lord. Aang is not going to be chomping at the bit to smite the Fire Nation into oblivion now that Zuko is in charge. We talk to Zuko, we can get him on our side. If Zuko can talk to Aang, then we can get Aang on our side. If Aang is on our side, the rest of the world can kick rocks.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Yeah… I have my doubts. 1. Zuko genuinely wants to make things right, he's not gonna roll with a zero compromise, zero apology position. 2. Aang won't roll with our BS, even if Zuko is spouting it, see the entire Promise Comic. 3. The Avatar can't be everywhere at once and unless we resolve matters, the EK will just wait for their opportunity.
 
Earl Warren said:
Yeah… I have my doubts. 1. Zuko genuinely wants to make things right, he's not gonna roll with a zero compromise, zero apology position. 2. Aang won't roll with our BS, even if Zuko is spouting it, see the entire Promise Comic. 3. The Avatar can't be everywhere at once and unless we resolve matters, the EK will just wait for their opportunity.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

To be clear, we ourselves will probably not accept a zero compromise solution, as Radical is not on the winning plan. Recently conquered colonies probably will be disbanded, and Fire Nation citizens will have to leave. What we can do is appeal to Fire Lord Zuko about the good of his people which, by the Fire Nation's own rhetoric and history, now includes both the Fire and Earth people of the colonies. To tear apart their civilization in the name of fixing the mistakes of the past is to kill the child for the sins of their father.

As for the Promise, I'm currently going over it now. I think Granite's position is right. I think we can take general ideas from the Promise, but if taken as everything in it literally happening, it kinda breaks the characters of quite a few people.
 
Last edited:
Personally I think the best deal we can get is independant colonies that view us as their protector against Ba Sing Se which probably won't be that difficult to arrange considering the decentralized nature of the Earth Kingdom as well as the Isolation of the Earth King, We could easily paint it in such a way that it looks like they sold out the various colonies and can play that sentiment into a self determination referendum which if timed right would result in independant colonies.
 
IroniChristian said:
Personally I think the best deal we can get is independant colonies that view us as their protector against Ba Sing Se which probably won't be that difficult to arrange considering the decentralized nature of the Earth Kingdom as well as the Isolation of the Earth King, We could easily paint it in such a way that it looks like they sold out the various colonies and can play that sentiment into a self determination referendum which if timed right would result in independant colonies.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Frankly, short of us stacking the deck unfairly to make sure current (largely Fire Nation aligned) elites stay in charge, any honest evaluation would probably also see Ba Sing Se as a protector... against us.

While also seeing us as a protector against Ba Sing Se.
 
Last edited:
Limabot said:
(making them into an independent state would be the best solution, and I don't get why making the United Republic is so unpopular)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Among other reasons, the United Republic pf Nations was not an independent sovereign state until Season Two of Legend of Korra. It was a condominium of the Earth Kingdom, Fire Nation, Northern and Southern Water Tribes, and Air Nomads (such as they were). Its ruling Council was made of representatives of those powers and did not include even a representative of the URN as such (the Air Nomad councilor after Aang was at least born, and lived full-time, in Republic City, but that's as close as it got). It did not have self-government, its own military, or ability to conduct its own foreign affairs.
 
Last edited:
Zimmerwald1915 said:
Among other reasons, the United Republic pf Nations was not an independent sovereign state until Season Two of Legend of Korra. It was a condominium of the Earth Kingdom, Fire Nation, Northern and Southern Water Tribes, and Air Nomads (such as they were). Its ruling Council was made of representatives of those powers and did not include even a representative of the URN as such (the Air Nomad councilor after Aang was at least born, and lived full-time, in Republic City, but that's as close as it got). It did not have self-government, its own military, or ability to conduct its own foreign affairs.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Im fairly sure The Republic had its own Military. They had a fleet ready to roll in when the Equalists roll up, a Fleet which continues in its role when it does become a democracy (which it would not if it was a force on loan from the other nations), and Bumi (Aangs Son) willingly joined it and had a number of adventures.
 
[X] "She's an associate of the Finance Minister - that alone is a good in, but I'm told that she also carries a fair amount of weight with the admiralty club and the mercantile concerns here in Caldera. The mercantilist clique is well established in court, though I find it unlikely that our new liege will share Ozai's disfavor; her appointment might prove a sufficient reinforcement to raise them back as a counterbalance to Ozai's clique and the militarists. Even more importantly, I imagine that she'll understand the importance of maintaining our economic position in these uncertain times; after all, if things falter too much, we risk far more than what is ultimately a minor dynastic squabble…"
[X] "Revisionist" (Uncertain Clique, Personal Interest, Moderate Divergence)

And an approval vote for something that might win

[X] "She's my niece - a close association is dangerous, I know, but it might prove worthwhile here. She associates with the national associations here in Caldera, not Ozai's, the youth ones; I know you're not fond of the modernist movement, but it might be useful to attach them to our government, let some new blood into the court in order to take attention away from reliable hands such as yourself and I. It might make the conservatives uncomfortable, all the talk of meritocracy and youth, but I wouldn't mind throwing up a distraction to take attention away from us in these trying times…"
 
Last edited:
[X] "She's a relative of the governor in Yu Dao… don't give me that look, young man, I know she's mixed, but the Fire Lord seems to hold a misplaced sympathy for foreigners and mongrels. She's a colonial, so we can at least expect her to know her place and heed our counsel; their kind is always quick to listen to their betters when it comes to this sort of thing, especially since she'll be without other friends in the court. More importantly, we can expect her to advocate for the interests of the colonies, which would hopefully offer a starting point in talking the Fire Lord down from whatever foolishness he might be contemplating in the colonies.

[X] "Orthodox" (Devoted Clique, Firm Orthodoxy)
 
[X] "She's an associate of the Finance Minister - that alone is a good in, but I'm told that she also carries a fair amount of weight with the admiralty club and the mercantile concerns here in Caldera. The mercantilist clique is well established in court, though I find it unlikely that our new liege will share Ozai's disfavor; her appointment might prove a sufficient reinforcement to raise them back as a counterbalance to Ozai's clique and the militarists. Even more importantly, I imagine that she'll understand the importance of maintaining our economic position in these uncertain times; after all, if things falter too much, we risk far more than what is ultimately a minor dynastic squabble…"
[X] "Revisionist" (Uncertain Clique, Personal Interest, Moderate Divergence)
 
[X] "She's my niece - a close association is dangerous, I know, but it might prove worthwhile here. She associates with the national associations here in Caldera, not Ozai's, the youth ones; I know you're not fond of the modernist movement, but it might be useful to attach them to our government, let some new blood into the court in order to take attention away from reliable hands such as yourself and I. It might make the conservatives uncomfortable, all the talk of meritocracy and youth, but I wouldn't mind throwing up a distraction to take attention away from us in these trying times…"

[X] "Revisionist" (Uncertain Clique, Personal Interest, Moderate Divergence)
 
BoSPaladin said:
Alright question. What's everyone hoping for? Navigating the crisis is the immediate term issue. But Long term are there any goals or plans?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...


In my humble opinion, our priorities ought to be thusly.

1: Make sure Zuko's regime doesn't collapse. Nobody we would ever want in charge is gonna end up on top if this occurs anytime soon.

2: Lay the ground work for further reform by sapping away power from the reactionaries. We cannot start swinging for the outfield immediately, we'll need to put in some work to defang our political enemies without pissing them off in a way we can't take back.

3: Do our good deed. Radical reform may be possible, but it ain't coming soon. We are trying to internally revolutionize a, to quote Granite, "Proto-Fascist state." We're gonna lay this brick by brick.


One thing we need to keep in mind is that the current climate means that unless the 'people' are of one mind, gaining the support of the common man isn't all that useful for affecting change. The commoners would have to be threatening rebellion to bring it about, and thats probably the opposite of what we want right now. Power lies in the military and bureaucracy.

If we want to democratize the Fire Nation in any meaningful way, we would need to build that from the ground up. We can do it, but that means we need to both start giving power to the common man while also ensuring that by the time our enemies realize what we are doing, they don't have the tools to stop us anymore.
 
[X] "She's a relative of the governor in Yu Dao… don't give me that look, young man, I know she's mixed, but the Fire Lord seems to hold a misplaced sympathy for foreigners and mongrels. She's a colonial, so we can at least expect her to know her place and heed our counsel; their kind is always quick to listen to their betters when it comes to this sort of thing, especially since she'll be without other friends in the court. More importantly, we can expect her to advocate for the interests of the colonies, which would hopefully offer a starting point in talking the Fire Lord down from whatever foolishness he might be contemplating in the colonies.
[X] "Revisionist" (Uncertain Clique, Personal Interest, Moderate Divergence)
 
Earl Warren said:
Im fairly sure The Republic had its own Military. They had a fleet ready to roll in when the Equalists roll up, a Fleet which continues in its role when it does become a democracy (which it would not if it was a force on loan from the other nations), and Bumi (Aangs Son) willingly joined it and had a number of adventures.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Notably, a foreign prince was in command of that fleet. Who also tried to unilaterally intervene in the Water Tribe civil war before he was stopped by the first democratically elected president the United Republic of Nations ever had. Maybe on paper the URN had control over its own forces, but truthfully I doubt it could exercise that on its own will for most of its history. Its only really when Raiko comes to power---after the failed revolt rattled the Councils control, I might add---that the URN started to exercise control over itself.
 
[X] "She's my niece - a close association is dangerous, I know, but it might prove worthwhile here. She associates with the national associations here in Caldera, not Ozai's, the youth ones; I know you're not fond of the modernist movement, but it might be useful to attach them to our government, let some new blood into the court in order to take attention away from reliable hands such as yourself and I. It might make the conservatives uncomfortable, all the talk of meritocracy and youth, but I wouldn't mind throwing up a distraction to take attention away from us in these trying times…"

[X] "Revisionist" (Uncertain Clique, Personal Interest, Moderate Divergence)
 
I wonder if one possibility might be to try to encourage us to invest a lot of effort and resources in developing the colonies, not just for the economy, but mainly for improving the lives of people there. This might benefit on multiple levels. Obviously the colonials would be pleased with it, but especially if this is modernization the modernizers might also like it. AT the same time, it improves our diplomatic position in suggesting the Fire Nation be able to keep some of them to some degree, both because it might cause some people living there to actually consider the benefits of sticking with the Fire Nation (especially if the Earth Kingdom fails to take care of their people) and of course makes the notion of keeping the people within the Fire Nation more palpable to Zuko and Aang. All of this of course helping to keep the more reactionary and military elements from getting into civil war if they feel the government is putting up a fight to 'preserve the gains' In the long term, this might cause the militarists to actually consider an attack on multi-culturalism an attack on the Fire Nation's claims, and make sure they don't team up with the supremacists.
 
triumph8w said:
Notably, a foreign prince was in command of that fleet. Who also tried to unilaterally intervene in the Water Tribe civil war before he was stopped by the first democratically elected president the United Republic of Nations ever had. Maybe on paper the URN had control over its own forces, but truthfully I doubt it could exercise that on its own will for most of its history. Its only really when Raiko comes to power---after the failed revolt rattled the Councils control, I might add---that the URN started to exercise control over itself.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
A foreign prince who left his own nation in a way which blew into something of a scandal, if you read the rpg source books, which I think does indicate that the Republic was in fact considered a foreign power. As for the Water Tribe thing, this is where Rule of Cool for Avatar almost comes in, before Raiko just shuts it down, I doubt much thought was put into it for how it would logically affect the nation worldbuilding wise. You'll also note that the Equalist Revolt was not a Nationalistic revolt as far as we see but a class/racial one. Then we get to the composition of the Council: one Repesenative for each nation. Their are not two Water Tribe Reps as to be expected in a case of a international governing body, and the South definitely had enough pull to do it, what with the Oil and Katara and Sokkas connections. Then we get to the living arrangement of the Fire bender Rep, not in some sort of embassy but in a regular house easy to just walk up and shock. Plus the very obvious implications of the promise comic and I think the most obvious view to roll with is that Aang set up a oligarchy with the rulers being ostensibly, wise sages and master benders of all bending ethnicities and the like. Runs into its own problems, but the most simple view to roll with unless you just want to go death of the Author, which is totally fair tbh.
 
Shogeton said:
I wonder if one possibility might be to try to encourage us to invest a lot of effort and resources in developing the colonies, not just for the economy, but mainly for improving the lives of people there. This might benefit on multiple levels. Obviously the colonials would be pleased with it, but especially if this is modernization the modernizers might also like it. AT the same time, it improves our diplomatic position in suggesting the Fire Nation be able to keep some of them to some degree, both because it might cause some people living there to actually consider the benefits of sticking with the Fire Nation (especially if the Earth Kingdom fails to take care of their people) and of course makes the notion of keeping the people within the Fire Nation more palpable to Zuko and Aang. All of this of course helping to keep the more reactionary and military elements from getting into civil war if they feel the government is putting up a fight to 'preserve the gains' In the long term, this might cause the militarists to actually consider an attack on multi-culturalism an attack on the Fire Nation's claims, and make sure they don't team up with the supremacists.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Fundamentally, the Earth Kingdom will not accept our presence in the Colonies. We can invest all the money we want, but they are in fact willing to defy the avatar on this point. They're salty enough about the United Republics already, a continued territorial presence of the Ashmakers who waged a genocidal war of conquest on them? Not a chance. One way or another, Yu Dao and co. is leaving Fire Nation control.

Will our charecter have difficulty with this? Yes and that's going to be the fun part at least for me.
 
Earl Warren said:
Fundamentally, the Earth Kingdom will not accept our presence in the Colonies. We can invest all the money we want, but they are in fact willing to defy the avatar on this point. They're salty enough about the United Republics already, a continued territorial presence of the Ashmakers who waged a genocidal war of conquest on them? Not a chance. One way or another, Yu Dao and co. is leaving Fire Nation control.

Will our charecter have difficulty with this? Yes and that's going to be the fun part at least for me.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
And this is partially why I prefer a Modernist character over a Colonialist one; the colonies are likely going to leave Fire Nation control no matter what we do, and this will completely destroy the Colonialists as a power block and leave our character forced to either move back to her homeland and leave Fire Nation politics or be functionally stranded without any major backers. The Modernist, though they would be upset, would have enough Modernist supporters in the mainland to still be politically viable.
 
So, on the nature of the Earth Kingdom and the Colonies, Kuei makes it really clear that his chief anger is that Zuko promised he would see the removal of the Fire Nation people from the Colonies through, and he then changed his mind. If we can talk to Zuko before he makes that agreement, then he can hash out a position of compromise from the start, and while Kuei's probably not going to be thrilled about it, he's always up for honest discussion and seeing the state of things, as shown by vising the Outer Wall and Yu Dao. Then we only need to deal with the Freedom Fighters and a discontent Earth Kingdom populace, but that's much more manageable.

Granted, the agreement for the Harmony Restoration Program happens really really fast, so our only opportunity might be literally kicking the doors in on the meeting, but we'll see what we can do.
 
[X] "She's a relative of the governor in Yu Dao… don't give me that look, young man, I know she's mixed, but the Fire Lord seems to hold a misplaced sympathy for foreigners and mongrels. She's a colonial, so we can at least expect her to know her place and heed our counsel; their kind is always quick to listen to their betters when it comes to this sort of thing, especially since she'll be without other friends in the court. More importantly, we can expect her to advocate for the interests of the colonies, which would hopefully offer a starting point in talking the Fire Lord down from whatever foolishness he might be contemplating in the colonies.

[X] "Revisionist" (Uncertain Clique, Personal Interest, Moderate Divergence)
 
Alright folks! There's been a pretty good back and forth so far and, unless there are any particular objections, I'm setting the end of the vote for four hours from now. As a general assurance, I've endeavored to ensure that any of the options I've presented are both viable and fun; if anyone has questions, I'm happy to answer them :)
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top