Finding the Spark (Pathfinder 1E Quest)

It's worth mentioning, the Pathfinders promised us pay for keeping the Azlanti stuff out of Gavhauls hands.

That plus the value of the adamant makes for excellent minimum baseline loot. Enough for all of us, when the Aspis doesn't take the largest cut from the Adamant maybe?
 
I suppose we should appeal to demons taking interest in the Azlanti treasures, the dragon trying to interfere with their plot, and Gavhaul trying to interfere with the dragon. He made it clear he wants to find and kill Sylestrix, which might have unfortunate consequences... and he would not take kindly to us trying to talk him out of it.
 
Poor Urgor is obviously getting PTSD from being possessed so much, and working towards some protection against it is a very good idea.

[X] Goldfish

@Goldfish maybe mention our suspicions that Gavhaul is using a bound demon or something?
 
Poor Urgor is obviously getting PTSD from being possessed so much, and working towards some protection against it is a very good idea.

[X] Goldfish

@Goldfish maybe mention our suspicions that Gavhaul is using a bound demon or something?
I foresee Urgor investing in mind protecting magical equipment in the near future. Maybe some therapy, too. Definitely a lot of booze.

I could add something about Gavhaul's apparent Outsider ally, but I'm not sure if it would help here. We have very little to go on, so it might seem like we're just throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks if we pile that accusation on with everything else.
 
I could add something about Gavhaul's apparent Outsider ally, but I'm not sure if it would help here. We have very little to go on, so it might seem like we're just throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks if we pile that accusation on with everything else.
Fair enough. Should we mention Pathfinder support and payment too?

Oh, and should we attempt to get fey to help us with Gavhaul as well after taking out their upstart rival?
 
Fair enough. Should we mention Pathfinder support and payment too?

Oh, and should we attempt to get fey to help us with Gavhaul as well after taking out their upstart rival?
Better optics if we don't mention the Pathfinders, IMO. It looks better if we're doing this because it's the right thing to do rather than because we're being paid by the Consortium's rival organization.

If we can deal with Gavhaul without the Fey, I would prefer leaving them out of this. That makes it more likely we can get help from them to deal with the Demons.
 
I think we should highlight the irreconcilability between the dragon and Gavhaul. Something like this:

The dragon has been charged with keeping the treasure from mortal hands and destroying the demons. Gavhaul is determined to kill the dragon to acquire the treasure and doesn't care about the demons. We had to choose a side, and we chose the dragon. She is more powerful, and her goals are more aligned with our desires. We hoped you would feel similarly.
 
You may no longer be a member of the Crusades, but it must rankle a man such as yourself to work for the likes of Loric Gavhaul and the Apsis Consortium."
Leontas is willing to let devil summoning pass, and everyone knows what Aspis is like. I really think that 'Aspis is evil'/'don't you want to be the good guy here?' is not the winning move.
On the other hand, "A cut of the value of the ancient artefacts is easy to lie about and you'd be stuck hoping Gavhaul values your future service enough to not scam you too badly. And we've seen how much of a damm he gives about those working for him. To him we're all replaceable."

Because no one is ever going to need to make a roll to convince someone that an Aspis member is going to try and scam them if that memeber thinks they can get away with it.
The roll will be convincing him "therefore we should just totally stab Gavhaul!" :p
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And so - as is tradition - BeepSmile is going to steal Goldfish's work, after he's done the done the hard bit of coming up with an actual plan forward, and tweaking some bits of it. (But my plan does reveal that we got people to take over (blatently hints that it's the Pathfinders if pressed), but lies about when we decided to betray him).

[X] Plan stealing Goldfish's hard work (not credited to Goldfish. Muw ha ha)
-[X] Sirim casts Shadow Enchantment: Hermean Potential on himself as stealthily as possible. (If caught, bluff: "A minor warding woven into my being that might have shielded what I'm going to say next from any divinations made before this point." (because familiars can't cast spells. Obviously.))
-[X] Appeal to both Leontas' sense of greed and responsibility. Gavhaul is a man of fel intent and even poorer character. There are Demons afoot and a Dragon out for his blood, and that of any agent of the Consortium. If he were to die here to dragon claw, few would question his passing.
-[X] "We now know that the adamantine is hollow, and a significant portion of our promised pay is now tied up in getting a cut of the value of those artefacts. Something that is trivially easy to lie about. You'd be stuck hoping Gavhaul values your future service enough to not scam you too badly. And we've seen how much of a damm he gives about those working for him. To him we're all replaceable. So let us replace him."
-[X] "After dealing with his vampire contact and realising the depths of monstrosity Gavhaul is comfortable with, we scrambled to reach out to some friendly contacts[1] to set the groundwork to have their people be the ones in place take the adamantine at the border. We are prepared. We have the aid of a dragon. And we have enough shit to worry about with these three demons without worrying about when Gavhual is going to sacrifice some of us to that eldritch horror he was communing with a few days ago" (If queried, share what little you were able to figure out about the being that Gavhaul was speaking with).
-[X][1] If pressed on the 'contacts' bit, state that they have a very strong preference of going unnoticed here, and would be very annoyed if they learned that we revealed our scheme to anyone. But the addition of demons has forced our hand - glances at self - well, tail. [small joke intended to boost diplo effots]. And if that is (quite reasonably) insufficient, share that our contacts really hate the Consortium, and are willing to direct effort just to fuck them over. (Which should be enough of a hint [happen to have people in the area already + can communicate quickly as an institution + hate Aspis = Pathfinder] for Leontas and Urgor to figure out who we asked for help)

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I think that the pathfinder's plan was to have their agents be the ones to take the adamantine at the border instead of Gavhaul's people, I'm trying to be honest here about what was intended, so please correct me if I'm wrong.
It's worth mentioning, the Pathfinders promised us pay for keeping the Azlanti stuff out of Gavhauls hands.

That plus the value of the adamant makes for excellent minimum baseline loot. Enough for all of us, when the Aspis doesn't take the largest cut from the Adamant maybe?
iirc, Gavhaul's cut was 60%? I presume some of that was going to the people he was paying to take it at the border, but apart from what that bit might be, removing Gavhaul means there's a whole lotta more pie to go around.

Honestly, I'm fine with giving up... any portion of our own cut. We've been making bank on this trip.
10/10 would kill a wererat's father again.
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@DragonParadox I'm guessing there's zero way for Sirim to cast a reroll buff for diplo/bluff here, or to state that he had it precast before talking with Leontas?
'Cuz this interaction has me frickin' tense, man.
 
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That's a really good line.

[X] BeepSmile
I'm actually kinda proud of it, thanks.

But please don't vote for my plan based on that one bit only - I'm pretty sure Goldfish could work it into his plan around the 'Gavhaul is a shit' bit.


Like, while I do stand by my plan - I want to state that it is explicitly letting Urgor and Leontas know we're been working on this scheme with a number of other people, and that we weren't going to tell them except for the demons, and if either of them push on 'who' I also have Sirim hint in an obvious manner that we chose to reach out to the Pathfinders with this after killing the Vampire. [A lie, btw.]

[Btw, while my vote means that after a moment's thought they'll realise 'we were running a scheme behind your back and if all went well we'd have never told you' and that's a really bad look, that 'the demons being a factor mean that we need to deal with the problem of Gavhaul's... still being alive, sooner than hoped for. Because we take demons that seriously' is a really good look, hopefully enough to make up for it].

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Edit: Holy shit. I just realised. If Gavhaul is killed by Sylestrix then we might dodge being divined as his killer - if we're lucky regarding the questions asked by the Aspis diviner. But also, the expedition's goals we revealed and made known. That means that anyone could have taken the adamantium at the border, and even if Aspis[1] look to see who it was, the Pathfinders could have quite reasonably have found out from the rumours in that town, which should massively muddy the waters.

[1] We have no idea how much Gavhaul has or hasn't told his fellow Aspis members about this.
 
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But please don't vote for my plan based on that one bit only
I totally am.

I'm pretty sure Goldfish could work it into his plan around the 'Gavhaul is a shit' bit.
When he does, I'll think about switching.

Like, while I do stand by my plan - I want to state that it is explicitly letting Urgor and Leontas know we're been working on this scheme
The others are going to ask how we plan to sell the adamantine. I don't think we should keep that a secret. Trying to appear completely virtuous while backstabbing our employer looks even more suspicious.
 
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Another point for mentioning our scheme with the Pathfinders: It shows that we have a plan and are not making things up as we go. It might not make us look more trustworthy, but it definitely makes us look more competent and more likely to succeed
 
I think we should highlight the irreconcilability between the dragon and Gavhaul. Something like this:
Seconded.

It doesn't have to matter to Leontas, but it's important to underscore that this is as far as our cooperation with Gavhaul goes. I don't think we are killing Sylestrix after our conversation with her, so this is the point where our paths diverge.
"No heroics then? Knew what grandee was going to pay you, whatever they call them around here, Grand High Jabberers?" He obviously doesn't have any particular love of those who would play hero.
The man may be jaded, but he is also pragmatic. There is profit to weigh against reputation, responsibility to abstract humanity against the responsibility to the employer, making enemies of Aspis in the future against making enemies of us and dwarves in the now.

...having to fight a dragon versus not having to fight a dragon might tip those scales quite a bit. I daresay it's the most convincing argument we can make. :whistle:

Honestly, I'm fine with giving up... any portion of our own cut. We've been making bank on this trip.
Also seconded. I was in it for what we can learn about the survivors and/or the vaults and beacons they left on Golarion.

But also, Briolia's mirror alone paid more than what we were promised for the job. When looting your agents turns a better profit than working for you, you know there is something wrong with your business strategy. :lol:
 
But also, Briolia's mirror alone paid more than what we were promised for the job. When looting your agents turns a better profit than working for you, you know there is something wrong with your business strategy. :lol:
This whole mission is stressful and keeping the lies in order has been really hard and I never want to do it again.
But I love the bit where we get introduced to people that aren't just socially acceptable to murder and/or loot (or have them come to us), but actually result in us getting accolades when we kill them and report to the local power structure.

I mean, that vampire was just trying to make her way in this crazy, topsy-turvey world. And we killed her and took her stuff. And people were overjoyed! How messed up is that!?

(Also having acceptable targets to steal from come to us is pretty damm funny).
Also, the intrigue is really fun and I'd love to do it again.

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My vote is pretty long-winded already and I'm not sure how to concisely include "we decided to get on-side with the (demon hunting) dragon that wants to kill this asshole (who will absolutely fuck us over if he thinks he can wrangle it) rather than die for being in her way".
I think the general gist is implied by the "the dragon wants to kill Gavhaul now, and Aspis in general later" bit
 
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This whole mission is stressful and keeping the lies in order has been really hard and I never want to do it again.
But I love the bit where we get introduced to people that aren't just socially acceptable to murder and/or loot (or have them come to us), but actually result in us getting accolades when we kill them and report to the local power structure.

I mean, that vampire was just trying to make her way in this crazy, topsy-turvey world. And we killed her and took her stuff. And people were overjoyed! How messed up is that!?

(Also having acceptable targets to steal from come to us is pretty damm funny).
Also, the intrigue is really fun and I'd love to do it again.

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My vote is pretty long-winded already and I'm not sure how to concisely include "we decided to get on-side with the (demon hunting) dragon that wants to kill this asshole (who will absolutely fuck us over if he thinks he can wrangle it) rather than die for being in her way".
I think the general gist is implied by the "the dragon wants to kill Gavhaul now, and Aspis in general later" bit

Generally speaking at the level of swords for hire you are with a goblin in two, the kind of people likely to come to you are the ones who think... you are the kind of people who keep a goblin around (as a mascot). The fact that Cob is both competent and has decided that the demon worship and cannibalism is not for him has a pretty hard time getting up the rumor mill. Or rather it does get up the rumor mill, but people like Gavhaul think 'ah... so they taught it to hide effectively, fascinating.'
 
He can cast Bestow Insight with his only cast of Shadow Evocation
That would be amazing and I'm going to add it in but just to check; the page linked below states that it needs verbal and somatic components. Does Sirim cast in a way that hides the fact that he's spellcasting or similar, or would he be attempting a stealth/bluff roll?


Also, with his feats, I read Sirim casting Shadow Enchantment at CL 6+2.
So (with bestow insight) that gives either a +4 insight on his bluff or diplo, and one reroll with that chosen skill that ends the spell when used.
Or he could cast Hermean Potential (it's on the psycic list) and have two rerolls on any skill checks.

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Since I feel my write-in is a mix of diplo and bluff rolls, (and if Sirim casting Shadow Enchantment risks him being caught and having to lie about it straight away), I think I want to cast Hermean Potential.
Statistically, a reroll on a d20 is worth +5, which is more than +4 insight, and we get two of them, and I don't think there's going to be enough of one type of either diplo or bluff to have the +4 insight add up; especially since if we need the reroll from BI, the spell ends there and then.
 
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That's gonna be a bad day from Gavhaul's perspective.

The paranoiac who thought everyone might turn against him has everyone turn against him.
And then a dragon eats him.

There's probably a moral to the story, but for him it just sucks.
 
I'm worried about the nature of those bindings on that old entity. Will they linger for some time after Gavhaul's death, or will they break as soon as he dies? (Can/will he release them on purpose if he gets a moment to do so and is feeling desperate enough?)

Anyway, I think its worth trying a divination on what happens to those bonds if Gavhaul dies - it might be that after he dies we'll have a round or two to run in to his tent and do some spellcraft/arcana checks to keep it bound, and I'd like to have Hermean Potentials precast and Fortune Hexs available for those rolls.

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I wonder if we can open the assault by giving a non party member the launcher and a fungal stun bomb, also if our dragon ally will loan our the use of some of her baubles for three people to launch stun bombs from far away + have held actions so they only launch if he makes the save for the preceding vials (have to make sure the people with the vials aren't possessed).
Also, I'd like to ask to borrow the use of some of those goggles.
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Finally, in the interest of having Sylestrix be the one to land the killing blow on Gavhaul, I think we should consider telling her (in diplomatic terms) that we're worried about the Aspis Consortium divining that it was one of us that killed him, and that we'd prefer her to be the one that lands the blow. 'Died by dragon' is just a risk. 'Died by employee' is a reason to investigate further and retaliate.
 
Finally, in the interest of having Sylestrix be the one to land the killing blow on Gavhaul, I think we should consider telling her (in diplomatic terms) that we're worried about the Aspis Consortium divining that it was one of us that killed him, and that we'd prefer her to be the one that lands the blow. 'Died by dragon' is just a risk. 'Died by employee' is a reason to investigate further and retaliate.
Dragons are also people who can be divined.

If the Consortium is going to try and take revenge, a young dragon is hardly a more difficult target than a full party of adventurers.
 
Dragons are also people who can be divined.

If the Consortium is going to try and take revenge, a young dragon is hardly a more difficult target than a full party of adventurers.
Yeah, but... my hope is that they'll do a cursory divination and write off a dragon attack as 'not worth retaliating against, because dragons are gonna dragon' rather than 'we need to adhere to our policy of

I'll keep that argument to Leontas and Urgor in my vote now you've caused em to think more on it, I no longer want to try and convince our new friend to make the killing blow (if reasonably possible), and thus take the heat.
In this context I now thing we should just let things play out.
 
Reasonably, all we need to do is stand aside. In a Gavhaul vs dragon battle, my bets are on the dragon. Ideally, we do not raise a hand and the entire expedition can testify to everyone's uninvolvement.

Because as far as sources go, questioning the expedition members is a far better one than a divination, and this is what I assume Aspis would try first.

This is hardly a situaation that warrants revenge, just a greedy agent who wents after more than he could afford.

The involvement of a rival faction (which leads them to losing their cut) would be a more damning indicator of an inside job, but it can hardly be attributed to a dragon.
 
Vote closed.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Aug 29, 2024 at 6:40 AM, finished with 27 posts and 5 votes.

  • [X] Plan stealing Goldfish's hard work (not credited to Goldfish. Muw ha ha)
    -[X] Sirim casts Shadow Enchantment: Hermean Potential on himself as stealthily as possible. (If caught, bluff: "A minor warding woven into my being that might have shielded what I'm going to say next from any divinations made before this point." (because familiars can't cast spells. Obviously.))
    -[X] Appeal to both Leontas' sense of greed and responsibility. Gavhaul is a man of fel intent and even poorer character. There are Demons afoot and a Dragon out for his blood, and that of any agent of the Consortium. If he were to die here to dragon claw, few would question his passing.
    -[X] "We now know that the adamantine is hollow, and a significant portion of our promised pay is now tied up in getting a cut of the value of those artefacts. Something that is trivially easy to lie about. You'd be stuck hoping Gavhaul values your future service enough to not scam you too badly. And we've seen how much of a damm he gives about those working for him. To him we're all replaceable. So let us replace him."
    -[X] "After dealing with his vampire contact and realising the depths of monstrosity Gavhaul is comfortable with, we scrambled to reach out to some friendly contacts[1] to set the groundwork to have their people be the ones in place take the adamantine at the border. We are prepared. We have the aid of a dragon. And we have enough shit to worry about with these three demons without worrying about when Gavhual is going to sacrifice some of us to that eldritch horror he was communing with a few days ago" (If queried, share what little you were able to figure out about the being that Gavhaul was speaking with).
    -[X][1] If pressed on the 'contacts' bit, state that they have a very strong preference of going unnoticed here, and would be very annoyed if they learned that we revealed our scheme to anyone. But the addition of demons has forced our hand - glances at self - well, tail. [small joke intended to boost diplo effots]. And if that is (quite reasonably) insufficient, share that our contacts really hate the Consortium, and are willing to direct effort just to fuck them over. (Which should be enough of a hint [happen to have people in the area already + can communicate quickly as an institution + hate Aspis = Pathfinder] for Leontas and Urgor to figure out who we asked for help)
    [X] Appeal to both Leontas' sense of greed and responsibility. Gavhaul is a man of fel intent and even poorer character. There are Demons afoot and a Dragon out for his blood, and that of any agent of the Consortium. If he were to die here, few if any would question his passing.
    -[X] "Little in this world is free, Captain Leontas. One in your position likely knows this truth more fully than most. Aid us and we can split the proceeds far more favorably than whatever Gavhaul offered your company. Not only will you be able to pay your people what they are truly worth, you will have surplus coin so that you can be more discerning with future contracts. You may no longer be a member of the Crusades, but it must rankle a man such as yourself to work for the likes of Loric Gavhaul and the Apsis Consortium."
    -[X] "If we work together, we can keep the treasures out of not only Gavhaul's grasp, but the Demons who also wish to claim them for some twisted purpose."
 
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