[X] Plan Demons and Gods V4
Echoes of Creation (30k/Exalted)
- Thread starter Yzarc
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Something like a Volkite Culverin would make the person hit with it literally evaporate. A plasma bomb from a mortar would probably do the same to an entire group of sorcerers. And that's ignoring Thalassa's warframe toting dreadnaught scale weapons.
Thanks to the combination of CCC and his Excellency, Fan actually does effectively have great social skills. Social 3 + Socialise/Presence 3 + Essence 2, and -5 DC. And that's assuming he doesn't take the CCC option to just auto-succeed at his impersonation.
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Magic still trumps physics, it can just declare that hot plasma is in fact a custard pie. They probably would not be able to to the same with a curse that has infernal spite behind it
Social rolls are likely to be contested. While we would be able to guarantee some successes, we'd have no way of ensuring enough successes, especially since Chaos will have their own DC modifiers for socials.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
CCC only enhances a very specific set of social skills, nor does it help with impersonation. That's Loom-Snarling Deception + Eldritch Secrets Mastery. Besides, that's just the impersonation. We're decent otherwise.
[X] Plan Demons and Gods V4
In any case, this is direct war. We'll have plenty of appropriate opportunities to employ impersonation against the Covenant later on.
Just thought of something. You know how space marines think of the Primarchs as their gene-fathers and the whole thing is very overt, every Imperial Herald would be a son of Lorgar... every Imperial Herald bar the one who calls Lorgar 'cousin' and is called that in return. Mind they do not mean any more by it than their connection through Fan who one sees as a father and is blood uncle to the other. But given what Dharok is, not just a Space Marine who had awakened their full connection to the Primarch, but one filled with the Puriffied Gifts of Chaos and whose faith has spilled over into an entirly new form of magic, who can use what will be for a while the 'Primarch only' martial arts there is goping to be a lot of jealosy going around... as in it's a good thing Lorgar is a Social Primarch.
- Location
- Arcadia
Hm, it is actually a relief that Lorgar cannot outright assume the Apocalyptic forms for the accessible Lores. As an ardent devotee of Demon: The Fallen, allowing those outside the Houses to access the Lores already seems rather questionable. Some things should remain exclusively for the Elohim alone.
Likewise, it is a fervent hope that a sifu for the Sidereal Martial Arts is never found. The pinnacle of martials arts, the Blossom of the Perfected Lotus, should be reserved for the dear Five-Score Fellowship alone.
Likewise, it is a fervent hope that a sifu for the Sidereal Martial Arts is never found. The pinnacle of martials arts, the Blossom of the Perfected Lotus, should be reserved for the dear Five-Score Fellowship alone.
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The thing is, what Sorcery can actually do that? Even Chaos Sorcerers need the knowledge of a Path, and which path are they going to use to get immunity to weaponsfire?
Thanks to Fan's Corrupted Moonsilver tattoos, CCC is always triggered.
If we do better at converting Chaos Warriors in future there may be some other space marines with an unusual relationship to Lorgar.
I think it's more than just the personal relationship, but also that Dharok and any others that follow in his footsteps will have become Space Marines as adults, after significant life experience, rather than as children
- Pronouns
- He/Him
It's not 'always triggered.' It simply means he can spend Essence and Willpower to say that that activation conditions are met. CCC doesn't have activation conditions, as it's not a 'can only be activated in X' charm. It simply supplements a specific set of actions.
And those action are 'anything that would help me escape imprisonment. It's easy enough to come up with a scenario that the Tattoos can pretend Fan is in where being able to impersonate someone would help with an escape.
[X] Plan Demons and Gods V4
[X] Plan Demons and Gods V4
imagine a future Horus Heresy, were horus shows up to Terra and he sees his nephew, brother, dad and step dad just standing there, menacingly while 4 voices "Yeah, you can take them"
[X] Plan Demons and Gods V4
Summoning and warding, a strong enough ward can eat physical objects and if there is one thing Chaos does not lack when prepared it's raw power
dragon
Ancalagon the Black
- Location
- The Skies of Arda
So, does anyone else think using charms to hide ourselves from the emperor makes conflict more likely?
Either it doesn't work and it just shows us as deceptive and incompetent, or it does work and emps is forced to take our word for our situation because he can't make accurate assessments.
It's not like we're pretending to be normal to the galaxy at large either. If we're going to favor trading wishes with nobility or the primarchs then we can't exactly hide.
And ic fan doesn't have any reason to suspect the emperor of anything that requires reality warping disguise measures.
I think it's more likely emps will get greeted with an open hand, demand loyalty concessions to make sure the anomaly is under his control and not do anything permanent so he doesn't offend lorgar. At least until he's sure the orks aren't overrunning the galaxy and he doesn't need him anymore.
Either it doesn't work and it just shows us as deceptive and incompetent, or it does work and emps is forced to take our word for our situation because he can't make accurate assessments.
It's not like we're pretending to be normal to the galaxy at large either. If we're going to favor trading wishes with nobility or the primarchs then we can't exactly hide.
And ic fan doesn't have any reason to suspect the emperor of anything that requires reality warping disguise measures.
I think it's more likely emps will get greeted with an open hand, demand loyalty concessions to make sure the anomaly is under his control and not do anything permanent so he doesn't offend lorgar. At least until he's sure the orks aren't overrunning the galaxy and he doesn't need him anymore.
[X] Plan Demons and Gods V4
Or it does work and we play him until we are ready to move against him, a fact we do know is possible since Chaos did it in canon while being four insane idiots in a sack made of nightmares.
The Emperor made Lorgar... anyone with the least understanding of what that implies would have reason to be weary of the power and skill involved and thus use said reality warping to hide.
The thing is, the Emperor is not at all our friend, and we may have radically different visions for the galaxy, at best.
At worst, he's functionally xenophobic to the degree that if he learned Fan is empowered by the legacy of alien powers from before reality that he'll just hit the purge button repeatedly.
And we can't know what his attitude is in advance.
On top of that, by hiding from the Emperor, to a significant degree were also hiding from other enemies. Particularly if we start hiding ASAP, so people using retrocognition to observe Fan's actions before the Emperor arrives won't see him wielding Primordial power to do things other people in the setting can't do.
Now, this doesn't mean we need to hide completely. It means we need to hide the source of our powers. Ideally we need to look like something that fits into his paradigm of what's possible and that isn't at risk of growing significantly more powerful. The Emperor wants to conquer the galaxy. I don't think he'll suffer potential rivals. We need to not just have powers with an explicable source but also look like someone who has reached the peak of their powers and that peak is below what the Emperor is confident he can overcome.
Alternatively, or in addition, we might be able to create decoys who genuinely do have the powers were assigning to Fan. If we pretend that everything we did was based on psyker powers, sorcery, and shamanism, it would be very useful to have an incarnation who is actually a psyker and not Exalted. That makes it even harder for him to realise that there's a real Fan with different Powers.
I feel like that's kind of underplaying the emperor a little bit. Drastically different vision for the Galaxy from what we can tell in Canon his vision for the Galaxy was Humanity has a functional FTL method that isn't a dip through hell as well as a centralized power strong enough to keep any particular xenos threat from snowballing enough to kill all of mankind. Also completely overplaying his xenophobia I think he's a genocidal Maniac I don't think he's a xenophobe though. There's tons of evidence in Canon to state that he has no problem with appropriating and using Old One, Eldar and Warp shit if he can get his hands on it he places the lives of xenos entire species of them beneath the lives of one human. A human sorcerer that's a fully suborned some crazy old ones Tech to enhance his sorcery to God knows what height is a story he's probably run into before and as long as it's not turned against him what he's probably completely willing to ignore.
One thing I do feel gets ignored when people say move against the emperor you wouldn't just be the emperor's enemy which is already a pretty intense proposition considering our position at the moment by the time he shows up on this planet he will have found and integrated Horus, Leman Russ, XXXXXXX, Ferus Manus, Fulgrim, Vulcan, Rogal Dorn, Roboute Guilliman, Magnus, Sanguinius, Lion El'Johnson, Perturabo and Mortarian. 13 demigods and their Legions.
He'll have finished his conquest of the segmentum solar added the Ultramar sector into the empire taken all of the worlds and the surrounding planets of the primarchs found and secured the loyalty of the Mechanicus. By the time he arrives to even interact with Lorgar the Imperium of man will have at minimum a thousand planets under its belt 500 of which come just from Ultramar not even bothering to count Forge worlds. So on top of having the largest repository of Dark Age of technology Tech in the galaxy and the largest manufacturing base and the most planets under a singular government producing both troops and equipment. Tens of thousands of Starships headed by The Bucephelus an unknown classification of Dark Age of Technology Battleship and the Phalanx a fully armed and operational battle station the size of a small Moon or large asteroid and God knows what else.
Fighting the emperor unless we plan on literally fighting the emperor somehow without one of his custodes who practice and train and scrape to perfect their skills every free moment of their near Immortal lives intruding it seems like we are a pretty long time off of actually trying something against him.
None of that is to say we can't or shouldn't move against him but it seems like attempting to do so too early would end with us dead him fucked over and the chaos gods laughter echoing the Galaxy that is completely devoid of any power strong enough to fight anything then I guess the necrons win when they wake up.
Even if we take the most benevolent version of the Emperor that one can imagine, unless we also take the most tolerant I feel like he would still want to kill Fan with fire if he understood what stands before him. Why? Because Fan Morgal is growing into something not-human, something unstoppable, kin to the beings that in an age long ago made humanity for the sole purpose of being terrified, of dying and praying to them so that said prayer might power the amusements of their Creators.
My view on the Emperor's vision is that we don't know so we have to prepare for the worst. I think it's very likely that he wants to be eternal Emperor of humanity, a humanity that his iron boot is stamping on the face of forever, and in turn humans iron boots are stamping on the face of whatever xenos, if any, he deigns to let survive. I also strongly suspect that his end game for the Primarchs and Space Marines is the same as that of the Thunder Warriors. When they stop being critically neccessary they'll be purged.
I think that the Emperor is happy for him to steal xenotech but is much less happy for anyone else to do it, because that may make them a threat to him and his ambitions.
The Emperor is opposed to anyone that's not him using sorcery, for example, but he uses it himself. A very powerful sorcerer with some suborned Old One tech is exactly the kind of person that the Emperor would make a priority to kill. We'd be too dangerous and too unpredictable to tolerate.
The reason to hide Fan's true powers is because we don't want to need to fight the Emperor when he arrives at Colchis. At that point his power relative to ours will probably be as great as it will ever be. I think we need to play a longer game. Have Fan be known as a great teacher and have his teachings spread through Imperial institutions. Build our own sub-Empire of directly controlled worlds. And wait for the contradictions the Emperor permits and encourages in the Space Marine Legions grow until a rebellion occurs. That's the time to strike, when the Emperor and Chaos are focused on each other.
If the Emperor thinks that Fan is just a powerful but not too powerful psyker-shaman with the good fortune to inherit a cache of DAoT knowledge then that fits with his expectations of what's possible. It explains what Fan has achieved and because he's understandable it means he isn't a major threat.
We want the Emperor to see Fan as a useful piece to advance his Great Crusade, not a player in his own right. If we let him learn much about what Fan truly is; the Emperor may well recognise that Fan is a potential peer and hence a potential rival and hence a threat. I don't think the Emperor is someone who tolerates the existence of peers.
I kind of agree but I don't think he would know what we are going turn into into I also fully believe that the Emperors view of humanity is considerably wider than what you're saying. He's been an immortal wizard since before prehistory he's walked with other Immortals since that time as well he made the Primarchs and Astartes, he sanctioned all of the abhumans even the ones that look like cat people. When people say he's intolerant there's a very strong zenos bent there that is extending too far into Humanity The Navigators, the Felinids, the ratlings, the people of Fenris that can just randomly turn into wolves, the ogryn, squats, Longshanks, Pelagers and I don't know how many more strains all considered humans by the 30k Imperium. It seems like if you're a human and you don't do things like consort with chaos or zenos he's not going to look too closely at you.
There is no view of humanity the Primodials in my opinion, they are a whole nature in an of themselves, their intimacies sapient, their forms hosts to uncounted trillions. If we want to survive, fast or slow the Emperor must go.
I can see what you're getting at with the emperor's Vision but nothing about how the Imperial of man is set up seems to suggest that though for all we know in this continuity it may be set up that way but . Everything about his structure is delegatory and managed by other people. The Emperor by the time he Retreats from The Crusade (Horus) does not control the administratum, the legal apparatus (High Lords) the Secret Service (Malcador) the military (Astra Militarum General) the fleet vessels (Navis Imperialis) nor the main thrust of the army the Astartes (Primarchs). If he intends on stomping on the face of the universe forever then he really made himself non-essential and if you don't believe that the Universe and the Imperium kept spinning after he was essentially fucking murdered he had made himself completely non-essential the fact that the whole edifice started a bit moldy and is now rotted and corrupted completely isn't really the point it's still somehow lumbering along 10 Millennial later.
It doesn't seem like he's actually against people using Dark Age of technology Tech it seems don't need to pass one test does it have an AI that does something other than give you blueprints or print things yes or no. If the answer is no then go nuts as long as you don't turn it against me go ahead. The stcs across the Galaxy are exactly that containing weapons and blueprints that could turn the tide of the Galaxy and he just apparently was just handing them over to the mechanicus. Even if you can say that's being generous with allies if he's got a real problem with other people using Tech then I don't know what else to say there.
He's not actually against other people using sorcery. He's against people covorting with demons because both Prospero and Barbarus had Magocracies and he seemingly didn't seem to care along with Fenris having a fuck ton of wolf priests and the storm priest of I cannot remember for the life of me Jagatai Khan's planets name. The Council of Nicea was sanction of Magnus the red. On top of ignoring the warnings of the emperor which they weren't the most detailed but they were warnings not to deal with creatures in the warp the concerns of his brothers Leman and Mortarian it all came to a head at that Council.
Malcador Is a psycher powerful enough to teleport a planet through the warp not inherently immortal like the perpetuals but over a thousand years old and working directly on the same Planet as the emperor I don't remember quite exactly but I do think they were enemies at first before he managed to convince him think the emperor can work just fine with peers. Not to mention the fact that other perpetuals from the human race exist and know of him and they still live despite him having a sword capable of killing all of them.
The thing is, all those examples may have just been put into the 'purge later' category.
Particularly the Navigators. It's pretty explicit that if the Emperor had been able to seize the Webway from the Eldar they'd have been first on the chopping block, and the Astropaths may have followed closely behind, as the Webway allows communication as well as transport.