I am disallowed giving her assistance Savant. I can do it as Fluff but not as a mechanical addition.

Just following up on this, you're right on Savant, but it depends which source you're using for other Backgrounds. In M20, several of them go up to 10 to represent the scale of the modern economy and society - and in a galactic society it would arguably make sense to use the M20 Backgrounds and then extend the scale further above ten to reflect multi-system and mulit-sector scales.
Hmm.....but adding dots does not help more tbh as there are no mechanics attached to it. I mean, narratively, there is no difference between Thalassa having 5 dots and 10 dots as she already has the max knowledge the Cult Mechanicus has, not individuals but the entire Cult.
 
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[X] [Discipline] Dominus
[X] Use the second purchase of AMI plus the third option for CCC to derive the blueprint for the combat robot and its components. Share it with Thalassa, and ask if there are any components that can be reused elsewhere to upgrade our people's gear.
 
I am disallowed giving her assistance Savant. I can do it as Fluff but not as a mechanical addition.


Hmm.....but adding dots does not help more tbh as there are no mechanics attached to it. I mean, narratively, there is no difference between Thalassa having 5 dots and 10 dots as she already has the max knowledge the Cult Mechanicus has, not individuals but the entire Cult.

Another Totally Not Suspicious Thing to add to our repertoire: Found the one Magus who knew everything the Cult knows in multiple fields, in spite of the fact that her former boss claimed she never knew one hundredth of those things. :V
 
[X] [Discipline] Dominus

[X] Use the second purchase of AMI plus the third option for CCC to derive the blueprint for the combat robot and its components. Share it with Thalassa, and ask if there are any components that can be reused elsewhere to upgrade our people's gear.
 
Hmm.....but adding dots does not help more tbh as there are no mechanics attached to it. I mean, narratively, there is no difference between Thalassa having 5 dots and 10 dots as she already has the max knowledge the Cult Mechanicus has, not individuals but the entire Cult.
So we can't give her OT knowledge or anything?
 
So we can't give her OT knowledge or anything?
You need to both ask and have a connection to it.

For example, asking for the Ancient's knowledge on X will not work as it is a huge field of study and there were multiple factions in thd DToA federation.

But z tech-priest asking for Cult Mechanicus knowledge makes sense.

Thd second is prerequisite. They need those to get thd knowledge.
 
You need to both ask and have a connection to it.

For example, asking for the Ancient's knowledge on X will not work as it is a huge field of study and there were multiple factions in thd DToA federation.

But z tech-priest asking for Cult Mechanicus knowledge makes sense.

Thd second is prerequisite. They need those to get thd knowledge.

Ah... so if we do end up restoring a Man of Stone DAoT knowledge is back on the menu.
 
Article:

Common Sense

(1 point) [Mage: Revised - Mental Merit]

Your mage has an exceptional body of everyday wisdom and a tendency to deduce clear courses of action in puzzling situations. Although this merit does not give you a benefit to any die rolls, it means that the Storyteller will warn you when your character's actions violate common sense. He may even give you suggestions. This merit is good for new players, as it gives the Storyteller an excuse to treat them lightly.

hmm . . .
so @Yzarc what happens if we give common sense to Lorgar, Dharok or Thalassa?
like would Lorgar and Dharok choose to proc their aspect/mythos bonus multipliers or often or inform us how to proc it more often?
 
Ah... so if we do end up restoring a Man of Stone DAoT knowledge is back on the menu.
Kind of. There were multiple fields of study on the same subject, by different individuals in different factions, in different planets, etc, etc.

So you CAN get it, just not all of it, and even if you do, you still need to understand it, hence the pre-requisits.
Article:

Common Sense

(1 point) [Mage: Revised - Mental Merit]

Your mage has an exceptional body of everyday wisdom and a tendency to deduce clear courses of action in puzzling situations. Although this merit does not give you a benefit to any die rolls, it means that the Storyteller will warn you when your character's actions violate common sense. He may even give you suggestions. This merit is good for new players, as it gives the Storyteller an excuse to treat them lightly.

hmm . . .
so @Yzarc what happens if we give common sense to Lorgar, Dharok or Thalassa?
like would Lorgar and Dharok choose to proc their aspect/mythos bonus multipliers or often or inform us how to proc it more often?
In 40k this may backfire as many things there are powerful enough that they do not need common sense.

I also do not like it as it....
1. Inhibits player choice
2. Puts a burden on my to spoil things
3. I already warn you guys if a choice or write in is safe or not.

So it does not seem that good tbh.
 
Article:

Ambidextrous

(1 point) [Mage: Revised - Physical Merit]

Your mage has equal facility with either hand. You never suffer a penalty for your character's use of either hand in performing a task, since the character has no "off-hand." The character can use both hands at once to perform two physical tasks without splitting dice pools, but he may suffer a concentration penalty (at the Storyteller's discretion,) especially if the tasks are wildly different or in different arcs of vision.

Very few people are truly ambidextrous. In stressful situations, a penalty should always be assessed for the difficulty of performing actions with both hands at once.

so @Yzarc if we give this to Lorgar, Dharok, Thalassa or even Fan would they get like 1 extra AP or does it only have the "do 2 things at the same time" benefit?
 
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@Yzarc is it possible to use Lorgar's Mythos as a Foundation for Worldspirit?

Is Anathema a evolution of Lorgar or Humanity's Mythos or any other being following though certain trials can able to become one?

Is there any cap or restrictions regarding total number of Anathema who can exist in same galaxy?
 
Article:

Ambidextrous

(1 point) [Mage: Revised - Physical Merit]

Your mage has equal facility with either hand. You never suffer a penalty for your character's use of either hand in performing a task, since the character has no "off-hand." The character can use both hands at once to perform two physical tasks without splitting dice pools, but he may suffer a concentration penalty (at the Storyteller's discretion,) especially if the tasks are wildly different or in different arcs of vision.

Very few people are truly ambidextrous. In stressful situations, a penalty should always be assessed for the difficulty of performing actions with both hands at once.

so @Yzarc if we give this to Lorgar, Dharok, Thalassa or even Fan would they get like 1 extra AP or does it only have the "do 2 things at the same time" benefit?

That is really not how that trait works, it's a minor combat buff, it does not allow you to be in two places at once or do two wildly different things at once.
 
@Yzarc is it possible to use Lorgar's Mythos as a Foundation for Worldspirit?

Is Anathema a evolution of Lorgar or Humanity's Mythos or any other being following though certain trials can able to become one?

Is there any cap or restrictions regarding total number of Anathema who can exist in same galaxy?
I answered the first before. He is human so no, it cannot form the base of his worldsoul.

For Anathdma, Lorgar has just started on it and does not even know he has it.

That is the extent of what he knows.
 
Hmm.....but adding dots does not help more tbh as there are no mechanics attached to it. I mean, narratively, there is no difference between Thalassa having 5 dots and 10 dots as she already has the max knowledge the Cult Mechanicus has, not individuals but the entire Cult.

The reason to do it would be to symbolically represent the heights of knowledge the DAoT reached.

Sure, five dots represents the full knowledge of the Mechanicus in a field, but the Mechanicus only know scraps and are unable to comprehend or even make copies of more advanced DAoT tech; and certainly can't make the better Eldar or Necron tech.

Basically, the way I'd do it is say that there's a new background called Archeotedh, similar to Artifact, that refers to rare technology. A Savant rating would represent the knowledge required to make Archeotech items within a field. I'd make it something like:

Archeotech 1-5: would represent the range of Archeotech the 30K Mechanicus can replicate

Archeotech 6-8: would represent simpler Eldar and the full range of DAoT equipment

Archeotech 9: would represent the peak of Pre-Eldar and post fall Haemonculi conventional tech (like transforming people into sapient beams of light without using psi-tech), most of its high end Pre-Fall psi-Tech, and most Necron tech

Archeotech 10: would represent Old One tech, the peak of Eldar psi-tech like Reality Engines and Deep Warp taps, and the peak of Necron Tech like the Celestial Orrey.

I'd even be tempted, given the range of tech, to stretch this out to 20 rather than 10, and do the same with things like Resources, Followers, Retainers, Spies, etc

I'd do this to represent the vast heights of technology people in the galaxy have reached, much greater than a five point scale represents.

I'd also this to emphasise how much there is to learn and to give something for her to learn once we're on the galactic scene, even if we're capped to granting five dots.

In 40k this may backfire as many things there are powerful enough that they do not need common sense.

I also do not like it as it....
1. Inhibits player choice
2. Puts a burden on my to spoil things
3. I already warn you guys if a choice or write in is safe or not.

So it does not seem that good tbh.

I've said it before, but the people we should grant this to are small children, as a mercy to their parents.

I answered the first before. He is human so no, it cannot form the base of his worldsoul.

For Anathdma, Lorgar has just started on it and does not even know he has it.

That is the extent of what he knows.

Although we can't have it as the foundation for a World's Mythos, can we use it as an ingredient to add a flavour to it, as Lorgar could be a big part of the narrative of the world being cleansed and its propitious redeeemed and the World Soul being reborn

Shame we didn't pick the Destruction and Rebirth aspects for Dharok, as it would fit in very neatly.

Minor, we could have him parry/dodge and attack in the same turn without the dice penalty.

The thing that lets you do more things is the Extra Speed Mutation

Article:
Extra Speed
3/6 Points
The fomor can outmaneuver a normal human.
System: For every 3 point (up to a maximum of 6), the fomor may take one extra action per turn without splitting her dice pool. When moving, this allows the character to multiply a normal human's speed by 1.5 for each three points spent.


It literally lets you do more in a single turn.

I doubt it would work on a strategic scale though, and I'd expect space marines to have at least the lower level version and Primarchs probably both based on how quickly they're described as being able to think and act.

It's something I want as part of our own genetor package though.
 
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Lorgar was in Canon Famous for his book. Is it possible for him to start writing his book on True Faith to unlock his remaining Aspects?
 
Lorgar was in Canon Famous for his book. Is it possible for him to start writing his book on True Faith to unlock his remaining Aspects?

My thought here is that until they're unlocked; aspects can still be changed - see how he gained the Rebel aspect, so we may want to wait for Lorgar to grow up a bit more and receive more mutations/merits before he writes his book.

To give an example, while Lorgar's mythos is fluid we might be able to give him a Mutation like Shapechange (Humans and Space Marines), which we couldn't do if his Mythos is locked into something incompatible with them.

Similarly, if it's possible to grant him a version of the Procreation Mutation that might unlock some aspects that would currently be inaccessible.

We also might want to achieve things like uniting Colchis and healing the world soul of which Lorgar is a Shaman first, along with developing prayer eating based rituals for self-actualisation and personal development.
 
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Votes closed.
Adhoc vote count started by Yzarc on Jun 7, 2024 at 8:05 AM, finished with 59 posts and 15 votes.

  • [X] [Discipline] Dominus
    [X] [Rebuilding] Use the second purchase of AMI plus the third option for CCC to derive the blueprint for the combat robot and its components. Share it with Thalassa, and ask if there are any components that can be reused elsewhere to upgrade our people's gear.
    [X] [Rebuilding] Use CCC: All things great and small leave a shadow through time, the mark of their presence rippling ever onward from the moment of their creation to this very hour. Those shadows uncounted you will read and reassemble into one singular entity restored.
    [X] [Rebuilding] Use the second purchase of AMI plus the third option for CCC to derive the blueprint for the combat robot and its components. Share it with Thalassa, and ask if there are any components that can be reused elsewhere to upgrade our people's gear.
    - [X] Thalassa 'has a number of tech-priest followers'. Grant one of them each the Logis, Cordnator, Alchemys and Metallurgicus Savant specialties to examine the physical makeup and potential programming of the robot. Grant one the Provender specialism to examine growing any organics precursor materials required.
 
I should probably have made it more explicit in the vote, but as this is being done over a year we probably should use AMI + CCC to derive the blueprints not only of the robot itself and its individual components but also of the materials those components are made of, so we learn the processes to make the alloys, composites, and whatever other products of hypertech material science the robot is made of.

We need to build an industrial base from below the ground up, so it would be useful to know what minerals and possibly plants we need as the ultimate precursors, and what the (likely multiple step) refining process to get from them to the materials used in the robot are.

This is probably something we need to do for samples of all the hypertech materials we have, of which there are probably a vast number, some with only subtly but importantly different compositions and internal structures requiring quite different processes to make.

We're going to need to know this for when we start Shaping land to ensure we have deposits of all the right minerals.

Hopefully we kept at least a small sample of auramite that we can do the same to, so we can learn the process and precursors the Empire used to make it. That would be a lot easier than having to PIO daemons to make dist more sized pieces of it or similar.

That does make me wonder about another potential action for the future.

[] Sorcerously summon daemons and kill them with PIO to make magical reagents

We'd need to learn how to do this, but the Imperium does summon unwilling daemons in controlled circumstances, like when making Exorcist space marines, that the daemons would want no part of.
 
The reason to do it would be to symbolically represent the heights of knowledge the DAoT reached.

Sure, five dots represents the full knowledge of the Mechanicus in a field, but the Mechanicus only know scraps and are unable to comprehend or even make copies of more advanced DAoT tech; and certainly can't make the better Eldar or Necron tech.
The Mechanicus main problem is not lack of knowledge is that people die before learning everything, or die before fully training their successor. This is a major problem facing all ultra advanced civilization despite what some would think. If it take 200 year training to even have the knowledge to attempt to advance your tech, odds are your going to die before ever advancing your people knowledge base. If you need 400 years to research energy manipulation, and 200 years to study spacesuit design etc. At a certain point even cooperation between people of different field become impossible, as you need 50 years spent, working on just understand what the other people know, to even attempt to work together on new projects.
 
The Mechanicus main problem is not lack of knowledge is that people die before learning everything, or die before fully training their successor. This is a major problem facing all ultra advanced civilization despite what some would think. If it take 200 year training to even have the knowledge to attempt to advance your tech, odds are your going to die before ever advancing your people knowledge base. If you need 400 years to research energy manipulation, and 200 years to study spacesuit design etc. At a certain point even cooperation between people of different field become impossible, as you need 50 years spent, working on just understand what the other people know, to even attempt to work together on new projects.

This is of course assuming the capacity for learning of individuals remains stagnant. Why would it take 200 years?

Also no, the admech's problem is that they are for the most part cargo cultists who murder innovators and refuse to draw inspiration from most of the galaxy because they are 'foul xenos'. It is better in 30K than it would become in 40K but only in the sense that Stage 2 Cancer is better than Stage 4.
 
This is of course assuming the capacity for learning of individuals remains stagnant. Why would it take 200 years?

Also no, the admech's problem is that they are for the most part cargo cultists who murder innovators and refuse to draw inspiration from most of the galaxy because they are 'foul xenos'. It is better in 30K than it would become in 40K but only in the sense that Stage 2 Cancer is better than Stage 4.
I mean assumably that's part of what all the metal they shove in their head is for the petabytes of scientific and just field information of the last 20 Millennia gets shoved into their head but that almost certainly requires biotics to install because people just don't have the time is necessary to study what we would understand as a conventional field of engineering hell Engineers have subdivisions even now an engineer cannot learn everything there is to know even in their own field of what we've already discovered never mind anyone else's.

I get what you mean by cargo cultists especially the murder of inventors part but I'm pretty sure in 30K there is no other species other than the aldari who have better Tech than Golden Age mankind. The only other major players are the oddly biological or the Waaagh. The adari are split between literally the foulest Xenos imaginable and complete isolationists that are more likely to shoot you with a Soul obliterator warp cannon than they are to shoo you away from trying to study what little remains of their shit. The oddly Biological (Hrud, Rangdan) make biological War forms that make the process of creating Space Marines look positively humane they have ships that are undulating mass of flesh and psychic energy. The Orcs well they are the orks their Tech is mostly fuck you it works because we think it works. You got to remember the red ones go faster. Everyone else is either human and operating off the same Tech base or they don't exist yet (Tau) or are still completely undiscovered(Necron).
 
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This is of course assuming the capacity for learning of individuals remains stagnant. Why would it take 200 years?
Not even 500 years ago knowing nearly everything humans knew about say math was an achievement you could do in say 10 years tops. Now if you want to advance just Math you need a 5-8 years of advanced math training on top of years of basic math stuff like calculus. Now accelerated the required knowledge base by an additional 5,000 years. Now your looking at 40 years just to be considered a study just to be a basic math worker, and an additional 40 years to even hope to be advanced enough to discover something new as everything that does not require that level of time commitment has already been discovered.
Also no, the admech's problem is that they are for the most part cargo cultists who murder innovators and refuse to draw inspiration from most of the galaxy because they are 'foul xenos'. It is better in 30K than it would become in 40K but only in the sense that Stage 2 Cancer is better than Stage 4.
None of this is true.
 
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