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Echoes of Creation (30k/Exalted)

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Yzarc said:
CHOOSE ONE:
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i hate how we can't have dharok seal the abyss in the name of his adoptive cousin

[X] Leap into the Abyss: The whispers beckoned. Dharok could plunge into the darkness, risking everything for his allies.
[X] Seal the Abyss: Dharok might attempt to close the rift, sacrificing his own life.
 
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Incidentally given that it took us several rolls to get to the point of rolling a flat d100 the odds of this ever succeeding were a lot lower than I thought they would be. To anyone who voted last time following my arguments sorry for the misjudgement.
 
DragonParadox said:
The first one is leaping down, a literal Fall, it is a certainty of failure not a chance, the second is a forlorn hope and the third might have some chance of success. On a cosmic scale Lorgar has not done much so I do not think his name is worth much but choosing to make the ultimate sacrifice always has some weight.

So option three it is for me.
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It says 'risking everything for his allies.' that means that there has to be a chance of success, and also a chance of survival. It isn't falling, it's leaping into the abyss to fight the monsters with him with the hope of victory. Those are very different conceptually. I think this is the valorous choice, and Dharok chose 'always valor' and if he does go out fighting.

The second seems like calling on Lorgsr is guaranteed to block the Whispers, but doesn't deal with the rift.
 
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DragonParadox said:
Incidentally given that it took us several rolls to get to the point of rolling a flat d100 the odds of this ever succeeding were a lot lower than I thought they would be. To anyone who voted last time following my arguments sorry for the misjudgement.
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To be clear, the 1d100 was the test roll. The rest was you curbstomping the daemons as if you were the Primarch.

All is not lost though as you can make up for it in the next post.

There are no bad end choices here. This isxas much him synching with Lorgar as making his own legend.
 
Alratan said:
It says 'risking everything for his allies.' that means that there has to be a chance of success, and also a chance of survival. It isn't falling, it's leaping into the abyss to fight the monsters with him with the hope of victory. I think this is the valorous choice, and Dharok chose 'always valid' and if he does go out fighting.

The second seems like calling on Lorgsr is guaranteed to block the Whispers, but doesn't deal with the rift.
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No it does not, it just means he thinks there is a chance, this is the same person who said yes to Chaos once before, I really would not trust his judgement of risking it all to save his friends, he risked is all to raise his family from the dead once.

I've already said my piece on the value of Lorgar's name.
 
DragonParadox said:
No it does not, it just means he thinks there is a chance, this is the same person who said yes to Chaos once before, I really would not trust his judgement of risking it all to save his friends, he risked is all to raise his family from the dead once.

I've already said my piece on the value of Lorgar's name.
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That modifier to that option is out of character not in character he doesn't say he believes there's an option down there it just says he'll risk it all for his allies.
 
DragonParadox said:
No it does not, it just means he thinks there is a chance, this is the same person who said yes to Chaos once before, I really would not trust his judgement of risking it all to save his friends, he risked is all to raise his family from the dead once.

I've already said my piece on the value of Lorgar's name.
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Based on what Yzarc has just said this seems to be basically vision questing rather than completely real.

The question is literally 'What Would Lorgar Do?' As this is a test of Dharok's comparability with Lorgar's Mythos, not a fully real situation with an actual Abyss that might lead to the Neverborn.

Would Lorgar try to fight the monsters of the Abyss and risk it all to win, would he call on a higher power, or would he sacrifice himself without even attempting to both win and live?
 
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Degorium said:
That modifier to that option is out of character not in character he doesn't say he believes there's an option down there it just says he'll risk it all for his allies.
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Which is in fact a sentiment shared by many Chaos Champions right before they fell to Chaos. Heck that was a good part of the reason Horus went out to fight in the name of Chaos, a process which started out fighting a bunch of horrors. Not that I think the Abyss is Chaos, I think it's worse.

Still the GM said there are no bad end choices so I guess he has some chance to come out the other end. Even so I think leaping into a Pit to fight monsters sounds like the height of Hubris. Reminds me of these guys
 
I will not give you hidden bad choices. I say if a choice is safe or not.

None of these choices are safe and you realistically have no safe option here unfortunately.

That said? You can come out of this next turn. You have a chance to make up for it.

That said, some choices make this easier than others and I firmly believe that actions must have consequences, good and bad.

Finally? Each choice, if you pass it, has a separate reward. Chaos cheated again so, there must be a reward.
 
[x] Seal the Abyss: Dharok might attempt to close the rift, sacrificing his own life.
 
Let's keep ante-ing up. Always Valor!

[X] Leap into the Abyss: The whispers beckoned. Dharok could plunge into the darkness, risking everything for his allies.

And I'm interested what reward Dharok could get for leaping into the Abyss and beating it up.
 
BTW, Yz is using black text for chaos undivided.

Don't get yourself paranoid over potential Ebby involvement. It 90% ain't that.

Anyway, Lorgar's kids are already fighting chaos. Lorgar would be so proud.
 
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since dharok is determining how he syncs up with lorgar, i'd say invoking lorgar gets him closer to his faith/purity aspect and sealing the abyss is enlightenment or psyker stuff(martyr maybe). not sure what jumping into the abyss represents for lorgar, unless humanity has a valor aspect he can grab.

[x] Seal the Abyss: Dharok might attempt to close the rift, sacrificing his own life.

Dharok reaffirms his opposition to chaos, even if it ends up killing him.

jumping in might do the same, but exposes him to even stronger whispers and sounds like a hard roll to pass. jumping in also doesn't seal the rift, and so risks stuff getting out when he fails or even if he doesn't.
 
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One thing I might mention I don't know if it'll change anyone mind but I feel like anything that requires Sealing he has no chance of actually sealing it. One this is a Vision Quest Two he's a normal human right now. Even if it doesn't kill him out right that's still only about 80 years of life force for a seal strong enough to contain a Warp phenomenon of any significant strength which is to say it'll be sealed for exactly 5 minutes. Normally humans don't have the life force necessary to do anything about a chaos incursion. So on top of not being valorous abandoning possible allies and being essentially suicide by another name doesn't seem like it would be particularly effective.
 
Degorium said:
One thing I might mention I don't know if it'll change anyone mind but I feel like anything that requires Sealing he has no chance of actually sealing it. One this is a Vision Quest Two he's a normal human right now. Even if it doesn't kill him out right that's still only about 80 years of life force for a seal strong enough to contain a Warp phenomenon of any significant strength which is to say it'll be sealed for exactly 5 minutes. Normally humans don't have the life force necessary to do anything about a chaos incursion. So on top of not being valorous abandoning possible allies and being essentially suicide by another name doesn't seem like it would be particularly effective.
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Not if the link is to him alone, sealing something by cutting off a part of his soul or immolating himself in an act of martyrdom would impact any hole in the universe we unwittingly opened that relates to the particular strange act of Exalted wishcraft that brought Dharok here
 
DragonParadox said:
Not if the link is to him alone, sealing something by cutting off a part of his soul or immolating himself in an act of martyrdom would impact any hole in the universe we unwittingly opened that relates to the particular strange act of Exalted wishcraft that brought Dharok here
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I feel like that might be true but if it's a hole opened in his soul by chaos cheating paying Them to fuck off isn't the right answer. Especially in a Vision Quest it seems like the ability to deny them is more potent here than it would be in a real space chaos incursion. To put another way it seems like chaos cheating gives them two options where they benefit massively none of the options are safe but one of them has him paying with his life force the chaos gods for cheating and that's not okay in my mind.
 
[X] Leap into the Abyss: The whispers beckoned. Dharok could plunge into the darkness, risking everything for his allies.
 
Degorium said:
I feel like that might be true but if it's a hole opened in his soul by chaos cheating paying Them to fuck off isn't the right answer. Especially in a Vision Quest it seems like the ability to deny them is more potent here than it would be in a real space chaos incursion. To put another way it seems like chaos cheating gives them two options where they benefit massively none of the options are safe but one of them has him paying with his life force the chaos gods for cheating and that's not okay in my mind.
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40K isn't fair, that's not really news. Usually when Chaos rig the game they win, that is what rigging the game means. Only reason they did not win last time is because we cheated harder something that isn't an option in this instance.
 
DragonParadox said:
40K isn't fair, that's not really news. Usually when Chaos rig the game they win, that is what rigging the game means. Only reason they did not win last time is because we cheated harder something that isn't an option in this instance.
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It's not that it's not fair but one of them is an assured victory of chaos because he sacrifices his fucking life to do nothing and the other is a potential where this is only slightly catastrophic rather than extremely and I'd prefer slightly catastrophic to assured to death.
 
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