Arsonist's Lullaby: An Azula Timeloop Quest

Tomsawyer18 said:

Azula: I've been trapped in this endless cycle, constantly reliving my past failures with no change I make ever lasting beyond the current moment.

Aang, the current reincarnation of the Avatar: That's rough buddy.

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This reminds me of some fics about Azula being the Avatar after Aang passed away from his iceberg stasis and she had to deal with a lot of issues thrown at her such as being disowned and made an enemy of her own country by Ozai who found out about her status, on the run by herself or with Iroh accompanying her as he's member of White Lotus (and there's the equivalent exchange of Zuko being the bad guy - to restore his honor and return home no matter what, or rarely he willingly go rogue with his sister since they share terrible treatment from Ozai), and eventually come to terms of being the Avatar.

Although she might probably subscribe to Kyoshi's brand of what an Avatar should do compared to Aang. And also witnessing Roku's backstory when he was young and used to be best friends with her father's grandfather Sozin like Aang did.

[X] Sozin. The visionary. The genius. The conqueror. Every living person in the world must know his name—and for the last hundred years, most of the dead as well. What led him there? What made him decide to burn the world down, a century before you ever thought the same? And at the end… what did he think of it all?

[X] Iroh. Coward. General. Prince. Once, he was the favoured heir, a legendary firebender, the greatest hero the Fire Nation had known since Sozin—now he's a pathetic, doddering fool who thinks he can make everything right with tears and tea. How did he fall so far? How can he possibly think he's still able to rise?

i have seen no discussion of this:

Magery said:

You need… Lo and Li.

Azulon's sisters

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"Azulon's sisters"???

is this just common fanon/knowledge or? It made me sit up and double-check the wiki.

and also solidified my vote for this turn.
Hell yes, I want to hear who Sozin was from his daughters.

[X] Sozin. The visionary. The genius. The conqueror. Every living person in the world must know his name—and for the last hundred years, most of the dead as well. What led him there? What made him decide to burn the world down, a century before you ever thought the same? And at the end… what did he think of it all?

though Iroh is great too. a perk of this quest: all good options, no stress

[X] Iroh. Coward. General. Prince. Once, he was the favoured heir, a legendary firebender, the greatest hero the Fire Nation had known since Sozin—now he's a pathetic, doddering fool who thinks he can make everything right with tears and tea. How did he fall so far? How can he possibly think he's still able to rise?

[X] Your mother. Zuko is obsessed with her. He won't hear a word against her—won't even think that she's capable of doing wrong. Especially not when you're the one saying it. But Lo and Li have been around since before Zuko was born. They've seen it all. They know it all. They can give you the evidence you need to finally drive home to Zuko only he was ever loved—and prove you right that you were not.

I personally think this is the longest-running and deepest-set hurt and insecurity Azula has. This is what convinced her that she's a monster, that Zuko was inherently more deserving of love than her.

Regardless of which interpretation of Ursa Magery goes with -- loving but stymied by Ozai's interference, loving but doesn't know how to help Azula, indifferent, even hateful (though that last one is unlikely) -- I think lancing that boil is key to getting to Azula to realize and admit to herself that some people (Mai, Ty Lee, Zuko) do care for her for more reasons than just her skill and power.

Darkcore41 said:

I wonder who's doing this to her, a spirit or is this all in her head?

I don't think there's a way she can get out of this without being locked up in the end. No one of the other nations are going to forgive and forget. A sudden change to her character will be met by suspicion.

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I mean to some extent that doesn't matter because the Fire Nation surrenders due to a coup rather than external defeat.

SoaringJe said:

"Azulon's sisters"???

is this just common fanon/knowledge or? It made me sit up and double-check the wiki.

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Fanon. Lo and Li's position in the court is inexplicable. They are never referred to by a specific title and yet have the status to be the ceremonial announcers for the defeat of the Avatar at the beginning of S3 and Azula's lightning teachers despite being nonbenders. They also take Azula and Zuko to Ember Island and have them stay in their place, a strange thing to do if they were just blandly subordinate courtiers.

In lieu of having no clear title, because of their age, they are often guessed to be Azulon's concubines or his sisters, who because of their nonbending have been relegated to advisors. Sisters I think is a vibe which fits a bit better for Avatar, even if it was common for many of the inspiration monarchies and nobility to be polygynous.

[X] Sozin. The visionary. The genius. The conqueror. Every living person in the world must know his name—and for the last hundred years, most of the dead as well. What led him there? What made him decide to burn the world down, a century before you ever thought the same? And at the end… what did he think of it all?

Iroh's definitely winning but I want to see Azula start confronting her imperialist goals

I'm imagining Iroh is reminded of Ozai here, rather than Azulon. There's that saying 'you teach as you were taught', right? I think it also applies to parenting. Being raised by Azulon probably inflicted just as much generational trauma as Ozai and Ursa managed.

Ozai was presumably also a sociopath second sibling, traumatized with parental issues.

[x] Sozin. The visionary. The genius. The conqueror. Every living person in the world must know his name—and for the last hundred years, most of the dead as well. What led him there? What made him decide to burn the world down, a century before you ever thought the same? And at the end… what did he think of it all?

[x] Iroh. Coward. General. Prince. Once, he was the favoured heir, a legendary firebender, the greatest hero the Fire Nation had known since Sozin—now he's a pathetic, doddering fool who thinks he can make everything right with tears and tea. How did he fall so far? How can he possibly think he's still able to rise?

[X] Sozin. The visionary. The genius. The conqueror. Every living person in the world must know his name—and for the last hundred years, most of the dead as well. What led him there? What made him decide to burn the world down, a century before you ever thought the same? And at the end… what did he think of it all?

SoaringJe said:

i have seen no discussion of this:


"Azulon's sisters"???

is this just common fanon/knowledge or? It made me sit up and double-check the wiki.

and also solidified my vote for this turn.
Hell yes, I want to hear who Sozin was from his daughters.

[X] Sozin. The visionary. The genius. The conqueror. Every living person in the world must know his name—and for the last hundred years, most of the dead as well. What led him there? What made him decide to burn the world down, a century before you ever thought the same? And at the end… what did he think of it all?

though Iroh is great too. a perk of this quest: all good options, no stress

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Yeah it shook me when I read that but did so with how much sense it made. Since yeah who are these two weird ladies again??? So agreed actually

[X] Sozin. The visionary. The genius. The conqueror. Every living person in the world must know his name—and for the last hundred years, most of the dead as well. What led him there? What made him decide to burn the world down, a century before you ever thought the same? And at the end… what did he think of it all?

I'd assume Lo and Li and firmly on the Fire Nation Imperialism train, so who knows how/if this would make Azula question the premise of the war itself. It will definitely be interesting though

[X] Your mother. Zuko is obsessed with her. He won't hear a word against her—won't even think that she's capable of doing wrong. Especially not when you're the one saying it. But Lo and Li have been around since before Zuko was born. They've seen it all. They know it all. They can give you the evidence you need to finally drive home to Zuko only he was ever loved—and prove you right that you were not.

[X] Iroh. Coward. General. Prince. Once, he was the favoured heir, a legendary firebender, the greatest hero the Fire Nation had known since Sozin—now he's a pathetic, doddering fool who thinks he can make everything right with tears and tea. How did he fall so far? How can he possibly think he's still able to rise?

[x] Iroh. Coward. General. Prince. Once, he was the favoured heir, a legendary firebender, the greatest hero the Fire Nation had known since Sozin—now he's a pathetic, doddering fool who thinks he can make everything right with tears and tea. How did he fall so far? How can he possibly think he's still able to rise?

Damn that was good.

[x] Iroh. Coward. General. Prince. Once, he was the favoured heir, a legendary firebender, the greatest hero the Fire Nation had known since Sozin—now he's a pathetic, doddering fool who thinks he can make everything right with tears and tea. How did he fall so far? How can he possibly think he's still able to rise?

[x] Iroh. Coward. General. Prince. Once, he was the favoured heir, a legendary firebender, the greatest hero the Fire Nation had known since Sozin—now he's a pathetic, doddering fool who thinks he can make everything right with tears and tea. How did he fall so far? How can he possibly think he's still able to rise

Magery said:

Impressively, despite the fact she's released her grip on his wrist, Mai still manages to make it seem as if Zuko is being dragged away as he hurries to catch up with her brisk walk across the plaza. She chooses a space halfway between you and the walls of one of the stands and pulls to a halt, shooting you a careful glance before turning back to Zuko. This far, you can't hear what they're saying—you can only observe that sometimes Mai will point at you, or gesture sharply, and that Zuko looks progressively more and more baffled as the conversation continues. Business as usual, then.

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"She doesn't want to kill you. No, really, I was surprised too."

Magery said:

"You're terrified. Of this. Of the Dragon Throne. Of the responsibility. Because deep down you're the same tired old fool who left Lu Ten to die under a ton of rubble and didn't even love him enough to burn Ba Sing Se to the ground for it and you think you're just going to do it again if you ever have to run anything more serious than your stupid little tea shop."

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I'm pretty sure this is all true. Iroh doesn't want to be the Dragon of the West again, and doesn't trust himself with power.

Magery said:

"You make it easy to forget how young you are, Azula," he says eventually, quiet the way the battlefield is, once only corpses remain. "That is my error, to have believed the same lie you show the rest of the world. It does not forgive the words you have spoken, or the wounds you have tried to shove your fingers in so you can see how deep I bleed. But it does lend your approach a surprising… familiarity."

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I'm pretty sure he's thinking about specifically a younger Ozai. Not adult Ozai, but someone younger who tried to act older and whose best weapons were their words.

Magery said:

"No, I don't think I will," you say. There's a cracking noise inside your head. The cold fire spits from your fingertips, grounding itself in the stone below. "Sorry to shatter your little pedestal, Zuko, but our mother was a regicide who murdered the sitting Fire Lord for her son and didn't even say goodbye to her daughter—a refreshing change of pace, since she usually alternated between lecturing me for being a monster or foisting me off at the Academy while you got to swan around with her inside the palace."

Your smile spreads across your face like a wound.

"I can admire the ruthlessness in finally making it clear exactly how much she would have preferred I didn't exist," you add, "but like I said: it still hurt."

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I'll make an early prediction and say this is misinterpreted but not wrong. Like, I don't think Azula is wrong Ursa didn't visit her, but it might be more complicated (such as Ozai stopping her). And I definitely think she's misremembering "all Ursa does is yell at me or leave me at the Academy".

Magery said:

"I knew this would happen," you say, and you can't stop laughing, jagged and shrill and sharp, the sound of steel when it splinters, "I knew you hated me!"

The Dragon of the West is crying. Fat, wet tears spill salt down his face even as he shifts his feet back the same way Zuko does before he bends.

"I am beginning to understand," he says, heavy and slow, like each word is being cut out of his heart, "that I will wake tomorrow to a far greater history of mistakes than I thought I had carried here today. I do not hate you, Azula. My niece. I was arrogant to say I felt sorry for you. I hardly think I even know who you are."

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"Oh shit, my niece is also deeply traumatized and searching for affection and approval from Ozai. Whoops."

Magery said:

"All I know is that if I allow you to fight Zuko, and Zuko to fight you, I will be making the same mistake I have been making since before I lost Lu Ten." He breathes in, and you can feel the scrape of his flame against your own, like flint sparking across flint. "If this family must see one more day of violence, let it not be a brother against a sister, a sister against a brother. Let it be instead an uncle who is finally willing to trade pointers with his niece."

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The sad thing is he's probably wrong. Like, I totally get why he thinks allowing this fight would only make things worse between Zuko and Azula, but like, they've already fought. They've been fighting for months.

Meanwhile, Iroh is finally showing just how much he cares about Zuko more than her (at least, that's how she's interpreting it).

[X] Your mother. Zuko is obsessed with her. He won't hear a word against her—won't even think that she's capable of doing wrong. Especially not when you're the one saying it. But Lo and Li have been around since before Zuko was born. They've seen it all. They know it all. They can give you the evidence you need to finally drive home to Zuko only he was ever loved—and prove you right that you were not.

pucflek said:

It is nearly impossible to understate how central her perceived (or real) abandonment and hatred by her mother is to her. When Azula is breaking down in her moment of triumph, it is not Ozai there in the mirror, lecturing her on being weakling and unfit of the favour he bestowed upon her, its Ursa, calling her a monster.

Her parents shaped the mess of neuroses she is, willingly and purposefully (In Ozai´s part) or by inability of action (In Ursa´s part). Subverting knowledge of whats true of how they treated her is important to who she is, even if she never gets the validation of it from the person herself in the nine day loop she gets.

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Eh... I mean, I definitely agree that it was very impactful in shaping who she is now. Finding out the truth about Ursa just seems neither necessary nor sufficient for success here, though, as a person or as a ruler (unless it's an arbitrary hard condition for exiting the loops, or exiting requires a breadth of knowledge that includes it, or something)? Like, ideally, yeah, would be good to have better, truer information there, but because it's generally better to have better, truer information; what does it actually do for us? If Azula is told and convinced that Ursa actually did love her, so what? As far as I'm seeing at the moment, at most that might be a less efficient means or component of effecting personal change and growth that we're already getting through other, seeming-to-me-better sources.

Wootius said:

we're not chums

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Sure, but I don't think we hate him.

Randino Treviani said:

That's not out of hatred. That's more Azula tired of Zuko's Rosy self delusions which are as much an insult to her mothers sacrifice and love as they are a desperate clinging to childhood innocence when Zuko has embraced a path(Firelord) that requires him to grow up.

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And Zuko is insisting on making himself an obstacle to her ruling as Fire Lord, while she's convinced (already by this point quite likely correctly; she's grown a lot since canon, through the loops) him being Fire Lord would be worse for both their people and Zuko himself. He was born to it, and rejected it. She went out of her way to give him another chance, and he rejected it again (after she saved him from Ozai again), in the process putting Mai in danger. And with the judgement he's displayed, she should step aside when he changes his mind and decides to make another attempt at it?

Darkcore41 said:

I don't think there's a way she can get out of this without being locked up in the end. No one of the other nations are going to forgive and forget.

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And? What can they actually do about it? The Fire Nation's position is still pretty strong, enough that if they don't agree to end the war, the fighting could be expected to continue for quite some time yet, and messily, with it still being in doubt whether the Fire Nation would actually lose in the end. All Fire Lord Azula has to do is negotiate a peace the others consider more acceptable than the war continuing, and she has a lot of room to maneuver there.

And that's if she doesn't also manage to hold on to her position as Earth Queen, which she may well.

A sudden change to her character will be met by suspicion.

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Ozai's defeat gives an excellent excuse, though. There's a lot of room to claim, with quite a bit of truth to it, that she was acting as she was because she was loyal to the then-Fire Lord even when she wasn't in full agreement with him, but that now that she is Fire Lord, she's going to do things as she sees fit.

Maping said:

Azula to realize and admit to herself that some people (Mai, Ty Lee, Zuko) do care for her for more reasons than just her skill and power

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Hasn't she already done that, though?

DracoDracul said:

I mean to some extent that doesn't matter because the Fire Nation surrenders due to a coup rather than external defeat.

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Right.

[x] Iroh. Coward. General. Prince. Once, he was the favoured heir, a legendary firebender, the greatest hero the Fire Nation had known since Sozin—now he's a pathetic, doddering fool who thinks he can make everything right with tears and tea. How did he fall so far? How can he possibly think he's still able to rise?

This update was basically hitting us over the head with the Iroh/Azula parallels. Both of them being the golden child to their abusive fathers, both are bending prodigies with a special title, and we see Iroh finally start to see the real Azula. As interesting as delving into Azula's mommy issues or having her figure out imperialism is bad is, I think that she needs to be able to see a path forward. Iroh was basically the previous generations Azula until he went through a period of growth and reflection, Azula is starting to see that she can't escape from the loops as she is now. The next step of that revelation is that she needs to grow and change and I think looking at Iroh's history is likely to spark that revelation in her.

Iroh's a good choice for a lot of reasons, and if nothing else because of the role he played right at the end of the last loop should still be fresh in Azula's mind. But the symmetry of Azula, with her relationship with her father who's going to burn a nation under the Comet, talking to Lo and Li and learning about their relationship with their father who went and burned a nation under the comet has me voting for Sozin too.

On a bit of a side tangent, does anyone remember the original numbers for Azula's Truths? I've been trying to get a better handle on how she is changing, but while the spoiler boxes are good at showing just how the description is being modified whenever she Breaks one, AFAICT they don't show which point was removed in order to modify them like that.