The Rim and the Hammer (Exalted/Warhammer Quest)

Elementals are much less useful out of combat compared to demons. Demons offer much more utility off of the battlefield. More importantly Summon demon can target exeptional demons like a Bloodape that can teach a MA style. Not to mention that Task bound demons keep at a task until it is done. Like say clear all the orks out of a dwarf stronghold.
Elementals have plenty of utility. Many are capable crafters or capable of producing materials, plenty of Wood and Water elementals are capable medics, and warrior elementals can also know martial arts. Plus, a year and a day is more than enough for most tasks, even aside from the fact that Elementals can be negotiated with to continue tasks beyond the end of their mystical binding without being guaranteed to fuck you over like Demons would.
 
Elementals have plenty of utility. Many are capable crafters or capable of producing materials, plenty of Wood and Water elementals are capable medics, and warrior elementals can also know martial arts. Plus, a year and a day is more than enough for most tasks, even aside from the fact that Elementals can be negotiated with to continue tasks beyond the end of their mystical binding without being guaranteed to fuck you over like Demons would.
Elementals have as many problems as demons. Neither is human, don't think either is better they are not.
 
Counterpoint, it's easier to banish elementals on a failed binding, and Demons actively hate you while some Elementals are explicitly pretty reasonable, even if their utility functions are different than ours.
the difference is so minor that even to the weakest sorcerer able to cast the spell as to be not relevant. It is irrelevant since we can just have 5 DB stand guard and kill the demon if the binding fails. And elemental will kill you the same as a demon if you do something stupid. And frankly outside of combat elementals are the worse option by far. Also 50/50,we would get Warhammer elementals which are decidedly not friendly anyway.
 
[x] [MEETING] Challenge the shaman to show your power

[x] Plan: Useful spells

-[x] Demon of the First Circle
-[x] Ritual of Elemental Empowerment
-[x] Emerald Circle Counter-magic
-[x] Summon Elemental

Demons allow for Neomah, which is a 10% increase in Exaltation chances for every child of a Dragonblooded. Which is huge.
 
Counterpoint, it's easier to banish elementals on a failed binding, and Demons actively hate you while some Elementals are explicitly pretty reasonable, even if their utility functions are different than ours.
Demons don't hate people. They are strange and alien, but it is entirely possible to become friends with them. First circle demons are not that dangerous for a Dragonblooded sorcerer.
 
the difference is so minor that even to the weakest sorcerer able to cast the spell as to be not relevant. It is irrelevant since we can just have 5 DB stand guard and kill the demon if the binding fails. And elemental will kill you the same as a demon if you do something stupid. And frankly outside of combat elementals are the worse option by far. Also 50/50,we would get Warhammer elementals which are decidedly not friendly anyway.
I fundamentally disagree. Elementals are alien but demons hate you. And Demons fundamentally have worse optics among our peers and citizens. And I'd like to reiterate my point that Elementals have plenty of non-combat utility equal to Demons. They've got crafters and medics and material producers too.
 
Elementals are alien but demons hate you
No they don't. Demons do not hate people. They are alien and strange, but they do not hate people. It is entirely possible for mortals to safely summon and bargain with demons. Mortals. We are not suggesting using 2nd circle demons, who would be too strong for us to contain. 1st circle demons can be controlled easily.
 
Also 50/50,we would get Warhammer elementals which are decidedly not friendly anyway.
By that argument, there would also be a nonzero chance of us getting a Chaos Daemon from demon summoning, no? I don't know how similar they would be to Exalted Demons, but probably not significantly more removed from each other than Warhammer Fantasy Elementals and Exalted Elementals?
 
I don't know how similar they would be to Exalted Demons, but probably not significantly more removed from each other than Warhammer Fantasy Elementals and Exalted Elementals?
Well, you can't really bargain with Warhammer Daemons once you've already done the job of summoning them. Either you force them under your control by sheer force of will, or they run rampant and kill whoever they want, summoner included.
 
By that argument, there would also be a nonzero chance of us getting a Chaos Daemon from demon summoning, no? I don't know how similar they would be to Exalted Demons, but probably not significantly more removed from each other than Warhammer Fantasy Elementals and Exalted Elementals?
Very different demons. WH demons are just evil. Exalted demons are alien with alien priorities.

Exalted summoning for demons works of the fact the exalted stomped on the Primordials and forced them to swear oaths of surrender, of which being summoned is to work for the exalted is an explicit feature. It specifically only works on exalted demons. Exalted summoning for elementals could get creation elementals, or it could tap the local lay-lines and get WH elementals.

Either way the Neomah demons are something to valuable to miss out on. Even if we can't summon new Neomah's we can say we task bound a group of them to be a fleshcrafting guild in the city. Being able to mass produce Gryphons or Pegasus, to local farm animals, on top of raising the chance of getting more exalted is just to good.
 
I'm a bit sad that there's no excitement for Wood Dragon's Claw. On a Learning/Occult build like Gus', that spell turns bare fists into a better melee weapon than any Artifact short of the Daiklave of Conquest, and that's not something we could use in any case. And as stated, Sorcery casting takes a long time in combat, so it'd be a very potent self-defense measure if we're going someplace dangerous.

Or maybe I'm thinking of the 2e version of it.
 
[X] [MEETING] Challenge the shaman to show your power
[X] Planned Spellbook

-[X] Emerald Countermagic
-[X] Summon Elemental
-[X] Mists of Eventide
-[X] Unslakable Thirst of the Devil-Maw
 
[X] [MEETING] Challenge the shaman to show your power
[X] Plan Foundations of Magic
 
Gunzosha Commando Power Armor: A set of the most powerful power armor ever mass produced for the Un-Exalted this marvel of the Old Realm allows Shae to match many of the Azure Dragons in sparring, drawing much envy from the youngsters among them, at least until they are told how many hours of painstaking maintenance have to be put into maintaining it with current tools +6 Combat
Well that's nice.

Is that our only examplar?
A few more, even non-functional in the basement, would be useful.
 
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Looking at our rooster of heroes, we could really use a champion.

We have good combat, but no Charms to support it, the guy with the Power Armor is also good thanks to the enhancement from it, but not great and he propably doesn't have the appropriate Charms either.

When we get into fights with more Norscans or even full-blown Chaos Warriors then beating the leader 1v1 saves a lot of manpower-losses we absolutly can't afford.
I'm optimistic we can deal with this shaman by ourselves, but for a real high-end Chief or low-end Chaos Lord we need someone better.
Alternativly restoring a suit of Power Armor for ourselves might also help.
 
Looking at our rooster of heroes, we could really use a champion.

We have good combat, but no Charms to support it, the guy with the Power Armor is also good thanks to the enhancement from it, but not great and he propably doesn't have the appropriate Charms either.

Shadow That Dances with the Lighting Arcs is a woman, she is also Godblooded and thus has no native charms.
 
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