Haeliel is "only" 7th stage because she more or less doesn't consider further mitigation worth her time or effort, IIRC. She pretty much outgrew what remained of the curse.


Only proves the point that 7th stage is kind of all you really need if you advance far enough. The fact that haeliel herself sees 8th stage as not worth the effort is telling. Full mitigation of the apocryphal curse is a beyond Herculean task, and if at that point the curse is largely just an annoyance? Maybe your efforts are better off pushed elsewhere.
 
Anyone notice how odd it is that the Maiden's Beauty isn't nosold by cursebearer protections the way most of Procyon's attacks were? What's up with that?
 
[X] Vendetta
-[X] Perfect Merger [50 Arete]


Okay, I have a Vendetta argument I've been brewing for a while, and there's no better time to try to articulate it (well, after a good night's sleep would probably be better but what are the odds of that hahahahhahahahhaaaaaa oh god)

I believe Birdsie articulated a thesis that there's a conceptual symmetry between this end of the Quest and its immediate backstory. It was a very interesting idea, and in true Age and Treachery fashion, I'm now going to use it against him. In brief, there's a Hero, a Tyrant, faithful Companions - and a Maiden. In the first story, the Maiden was Hunger's wife. Here, it's The Maiden herself (I'm going to give her a capitalized The every time, in defiance of grammar, for clarity's sake).

...Or, is it? Under this thesis The Maiden's claim to the role of "the Maiden" is important to her conceptual weight in this scenario, metaphysically speaking. But we actually have a potential challenger to that title. With the nature of high-ISH combat being so very conceptual/metaphysical, subsuming The Maiden's role as "the Maiden" in the story could utterly vitiate her ability to meaningfully effect her will, while simultaneously empowering her usurper accordingly. This angle also synergizes with Blood Halo. To wit:
*Add the Domain of Battles to the wielder's repertoire and maximize his ability therein. Within the context of battle he can easily manipulate virtually any circumstance, phenomenon or outcome. Effects of symbolic importance are heightened further still.
Emphasis added.

From my selected vote I'm sure you can guess who I'd propose as the challenger here, but let me spell it out. Gisena can usurp the role of "the Maiden" in the story from The Maiden. She's been by Hunger's side from the very beginning of this story - there was a Maiden before her, but the effects of Hunger's own Shattering Blow frayed the memory of her so severely that that linkage has already been eviscerated. Instead, it's been Gisena who has been by his side at every turn - and who has time and again made herself the very lynchpin of his success. This maneuver also makes them flirting up a storm every time they're on screen together into combat-relevant preparation for victory against the final boss, for that matter, and you can't put a price on that.

Moreover, this conceptual maneuver actually turns The Maiden's own infinite prep time against Hunger against her in this contest. The Maiden has spent untold time building her own claim to the title that is her very name, long before ever coming across Lord Hunger. However, by spending infinite time focusing solely upon Hunger, she has proportionately infinitely diminished the metaphysical valence of her prior life. She has infinitely inflated the importance of her relationship to Hunger in determining her role in the story by spending infinite time focusing solely on him.

But, this is entirely one-sided. The Maiden has spent an eternity focusing solely upon Hunger. But from Hunger's perspective, she is only one more transitory obstacle - win or lose, her appearance in his story will be over in a flash. For The Maiden, this confrontation with Hunger is the culmination of an obsession that spanned infinity. For Hunger, it's Wednesday.

The power of Perfect Merger, in particular, helps support this (though it could still be attempted even with base Vendetta). By elevating Gisena along the ISH, her conceptual weight in general will be enhanced, better equipping her for the audacious maneuver of utterly usurping The Maiden's place in this story. This is a maneuver that Ending True cannot replicate, incidentally - by eliminating Gisena, it would eliminate the vital element enabling a challenge to The Maiden's role as "the Maiden" here.

There are more advantages here. We don't know for sure what The Maiden's trump card could be, but (especially given her conceptual weaponization of Beauty) there's strong speculation that it's tied to weaponizing her link to Hunger's dead wife through Ceathlynn to attack him on some level, since Hunger's wife was the first "the Maiden" in his story. Just imagine the look on her face when she plays her trump card only to find it's less of a coup d'état and more of a belly flop, as we've already filled the role of Hunger's Maiden in the story - leaving no room whatsoever for some Janey-come-lately last-minute challenger wearing a dead woman like a meat suit.

This strength also notably contrasts with the definite weakness of Closing the Fist against the same kind of maneuver from The Maiden. Not only does it leave the role of Hunger's Maiden glaringly open, but that +Simping is an absolutely lethal chink in our armor against an attack of this nature. And an attack of this nature is all too likely to be the kind of trump card The Maiden would play. She's The Maiden after all - her chief weapons are Grace and Beauty. Her trump card was never going to be some brutish attack based on mere strength and force. Light, heat, or anything else Aobaru could help contest? Mere byproducts of her true weapons.

Lastly, why not turn our gaze to the future? Vendetta, especially with Perfect Merger, buys us by far the best improvement to our odds in the future. This is not speculation. It is stated explicitly in the option itself. I remember that when we were voting on how much to buff The Maiden by I argued for taking fewer options to improve our odds of securing victory, and the rebuttal I faced (which proved victorious) was that it wasn't just about winning now, it was about focusing on improving Hunger's outcomes in the epilogue. Whence this heady talk now? Has your courage fled so swiftly, upon seeing that the challenge voted for will be a challenge in truth, that now you focus solely upon arguing for what you imagine might bring victory now and never mind what best supports our future? I say thee nay. I don't merely choose victory today. I am not content with a transitory triumph. I choose victory now, and forever, until the Hidden Masters themselves are brought low and made to PAY.

In particular, let it be noted that Vendetta (again, especially with Perfect Merger) has far and away the most synergy with the Geas mitigation we chose. We chose to be able to bring companions with us, with the intent that Gisena - who has already been so vital, so important to our success and progress - would always be the first of those companions chosen. Ergo, the stronger Gisena becomes, the more valuable that mitigation becomes. We have a finite number of stage of mitigation we can ever achieve. Even if you weren't happy with the form of mitigation chosen at the time, that's no excuse for squandering it now.

Choose the most artful usurpation, that The Maiden will find her hole cards worthless against, and that shall see her very conceptual role outflanked and stolen from her very hands. Choose victory not just for the moment, but for all time and Tasks to come. Choose Vendetta. Choose the Perfect Merger.

1160 words
 
Sure I'll approval vote that.

[X] Close the Fist
-[X] High Merger [25 Arete]
--[X] Invincible Vigor
--[X] Living Legend

[X] Vendetta
-[X] Perfect Merger [50 Arete]
 
Anyone notice how odd it is that the Maiden's Beauty isn't nosold by cursebearer protections the way most of Procyon's attacks were? What's up with that?

presumably because it's not direct mental alteration but instead a superstimulus utilizing poorly optimized monkey brains to make dumb choices. if we were more like the forebear, who treated all other entities with a simple binary of unconditional surrender or death, it would have affected hunger minimally, if at all
 
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[x] An Ending True [20 + X Arete]

It's not like I hate Gisena, and I was pretty shocked when the option appeared... but something about it appeals to me. Finishing the quest this way seems apt and gives the story more significance. No matter how much Hunger grows, no matter how far he goes, the shadow of these losses will always loom over his shoulder. Were the choice up to him, he would probably do just about anything to prevent this outcome, but I surmise Gisena is doing this on her own.

Or maybe I'm just hankering for some sweet tragedy to spice up the victory?
 
Note that the Maiden's most significant moment in the backstory was one of self-sacrifice. If this is recapitulating that moment, then, I suspect:

An Ending True has Gisena turn the tide of the battle by sacrificing herself, taking the role of the Maiden as one who sacrifices herself to help her true love win. "That's all that matters." This risks casting the Maiden as the Hero and Hunger as the Tyrant, handing her the victory if she accepts that role.

Perfect Merger has Gisena contest the role of Maiden as true love, without the self-sacrifice. It will be a showdown of conceptual power that decides who claims that role. However, it is possible that the winner of this conceptual showdown, though they would win the battle for their side, must sacrifice themselves. The Maiden may also still have the backup option of casting herself as the Hero.

Closing the Fist notably makes Hungerbaru both the Hero and the Tyrant. The Maiden cannot rely on the Hero's advantage here as a result, especially with Hungerbaru bearing the Seraph's favor. She is stuck in her role, which may force her to sacrifice herself as her trump card rather than rely on the destiny of a Hero. This self-sacrifice, however, is meant to offer the Hero victory over the Tyrant... but they are one and the same, perhaps locking her out of even that. Meanwhile, Hour of Destiny almost certainly increases the narrative weight of this moment, which, with the Maiden cornered so, may lead her to simply sacrifice herself to prove a point. In the best case, this might even give Doom of the Tyrant mitigation (though, admittedly, at the cost of simping).

-edit: With the Maiden's tendency to enslave people through beauty, she might be forced into the role of Tyrant, but I suspect that can only be accomplished by winning a raw conceptual battle.
 
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You know, I never did do a Greed build for my Lost Realm Omake. Seeing as it's all or nothing time...

200 Inklings. 20 Opinions. 12 Memories.

First, my 'Harm? I don't think I remember what that feels like.' build. Probably a more efficient way to convert these but it's like 3 am here.

[G] Non-Existent*50. [200 Inklings. 20 Opinions. 5 Memories.]
[G] Silver. [1 Opinion via 1 broken up Memory, 3 remaining Opinions saved for later.]
[G] Fake*4: True*4 Brown [32 Inklings via broken up Memory.]
[G] Fake*3 TSH Legendary True Inksky. [64 Insightful Inklings via 1 broken up Memory and 3 broken up Opinions.]
[G] Fake*2: TSH Legendary Battle Magic. [4 Memories.]

Forgotten is limited to ISH 10.0 effects. This immunizes the given individual from even effects like Hunger and the maiden. Heck, I'm not sure there's anything they could plausibly survive that could hurt him. This is probably conceptual weirdness like 'Effectively have ridiculous mana pool because any negative effects from not having enough mana for any imaginable feat can be completely ignored' as seen in having 1000+ in Dreams Attributes. Probably qualify as a fate black hole into which any negative outcome is completely ignored. It's not reactive like Cursebearer protection, but good luck divining him. Immortality has similarly been achieved, as has being able to eat whatever the hell you want without gaining any weight. You know how Silver Pendant is able to completely block one vector of harm completely? Think that, but you have one for each vector. Multiple ISH tiers stronger too, unless the Yoria Goddess was way the hell stronger than I thought. He's like Achilles from Grrl Power. Everyone else is working off of five stars. He's got 6 in Defense. Of course, this turtle build is much, much weaker offensively.

Legendary Battle Magic with TSH provides a huge number of immunities and resistances, in addition to a healthy dose of offensive potential. In the extremely unlikely event he does get injured somehow, Silver can fix that right up. In the, if anything, even more unlikely scenario someone has a ridiculous ability to ignore conceptual bullshit like Non-Existent but doesn't just kill him because they're hitting from ISH 20 or something, he's got elemental immunities from Battle Magic, Inksky and Brown provide a lot of Protection and raw durability, and of course popping Non-Existent's 50 minutes of intangibility is always an option. Additionally, TSH Legendary True Inksky is a ridiculous amount of utility. Even ignoring how he can basically create a Realm of Evening as he wishes.

Combined with -10.0 ISH to everything constituting harm or negative effects granting an incomprehensible mana pool, and he could probably absorb entire Petaverses into his cloak without too much issue. Once absorbed, the nature of the pseudo-Realm of Evening would make it possible to treat the world as if he had Overwrite. Including things like setting up a paradise realm.

I'll do the more offensive build some other time.

Oh, also, everybody should feel free to do Greed builds of my CYOAs. I certainly have no right to complain. A 10 Wish build on 5 Wishes could be neat. If only to explore scenarios like what approximately 180% of India's landmass with 100 million inhabitants suddenly appearing wherever you picked out would do to the world. Especially when it's reasonably customizable(you can't make it out of chocolate or anything, but making it mineral rich? Absolutely.) and, again, you can plop it down wherever even if that would require the landmass displacing existing landmasses, such as, for example, separating China and India with a new continent.

Alternatively, an Improvement burned on every Attribute you're willing to activate(Willpower, Theft, Charisma, Manipulation, Wits, Magic, Protection, Prowess, I'm sure I'm forgetting some) and then just dumping the remainder(not interested in Charisma or Manipulation, so 4) into Growth could be interesting, since you'd gain 4 points in every Attribute every 13 years, assuming even distribution (though if you focus on your base 7 Attributes until they hit 10 apiece, then assuming it's 2 each for a base, then it would only take 14 rounds to get everything to 10 even, at which point the normal even distribution should easily outpace your aging, assuming 10 Vitality even ages in the conventional way when it's 42 times the Vitality of an average human without taking the conceptual valence boost into account), which should be more than enough to extend your lifespan until your Vitality and Magic can Macguyver you into a lesser form of immortality.

769 words.
 
[X] Vendetta
-[X] Perfect Merger [50 Arete]

Man, when the Accursed offers you a remittance just take it. Even with Progression to push them each and everyone has proven useful at every step of the quest. Now, once more, we will see the fruits of Hungers initial choice.
 
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[X] Vendetta
-[X] Perfect Merger [50 Arete]


I'm not loving those -3 Adorie and -16 Augustine, but in absence of a genuinely better option, this is my choice.
No regrets.
 
[X] Vendetta
-[X] Perfect Merger [50 Arete]


Several reasons for this:
1. I want to see the Maiden's reaction to getting out-maidened.
2. Universal Curse mitigation is extremely rare and valuable.
3. Elevating Gisena back to the level of being equal to Hunger probably does good things for their dynamic.

@Pechum I do not know if you are still active or not, but if you are, I am calling in my vote marker.
 

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[X] Vendetta
-[X] Perfect Merger [50 Arete]
 
Shame about Cavalry, I should have participated more since it seemed the best.

[X] Vendetta
-[X] Perfect Merger [50 Arete]

Hey, let's not lose Apocryphal Mitigation while in the middle of an Apocryphal proc.
 
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