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Kingdom of God: A Quest of Holy Revolution

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[X] The Binding Ring of Marriage. On the inviolability which soils the sanctity of marriage, and the prison it may build.
[X] The Incharity of Man and the Woe of Woman. On the inequalities in wage and respect that pull women to the darkness.
[X] Ravhood. Vashti is a Rav, whose righteousness substitutes for study! [Available because of your Fundament Sayings of Guru Myriam].
[X] Elevation. Vashti is a prophet only insofar as she has been elevated by the people of the Ischak, and as such she is granted greater access to the Spiral of Truth by her elevation! [Available as a syncretic option of Transmigration + Accelerant + Pugilist origin].

Approval voting for all the Hot Vashti Takes that I like. Tempted to throw a vote in for Disavowal as well, but I'm not sure how we're going to pitch that to the woman herself given that she feels like she's receiving visions from some kind of divine source. What's the pitch to Vashti in that case?
 
agumentic said:
For me, it's anything other than Elevation. I would be willing to replace my vote for Incarnation with Ravhood if you would do the same with Elevation.
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Approval voting has no limits. So you could vote for all the options if you wished it so.

I will say that we should probably all agree to make a compromise on Ravhood at this point though.
 
etranger01 said:
Of the options available to us, Incarnation is actually the worst. I realize that people are taken with the idea of getting together with the Yuhwaist witches, but this continual reliance on the authority of the dead does nothing but strangle the living. It sets us up for stagnation and oppression. Why should a person's leadership be sanctified by worship of a corpse? Are we so unable to act in accordance with principles that we must instead live the lives of those whose time has passed? Incarnation does nothing but play into Santsarran's self-strengthening propaganda and hand him a decisive card to play in the coming struggle over power and from whom it should be derived.
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"Men make their own history, but they do not make it as they please; they do not make it under self-selected circumstances, but under circumstances existing already, given and transmitted from the past. The tradition of all dead generations weighs like a nightmare on the brains of the living. And just as they seem to be occupied with revolutionizing themselves and things, creating something that did not exist before, precisely in such epochs of revolutionary crisis they anxiously conjure up the spirits of the past to their service, borrowing from them names, battle slogans, and costumes in order to present this new scene in world history in time-honored disguise and borrowed language."
-Karl Marx, The Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte
-Personalism: An Infantile Disorder, by Raandom Membera, self-proclaimed Pugilist-Confessor-Iconoclast* of the HaKhofshim sect

:V

*More splits, comrades! More splits! The more your movement splits, the more revolutionary it is!
 
[X] Incarnation. Vashti is an incarnation of the original Prophet Vashti! [Available because of your Fundament Transmigration].
 
Random Member said:
"Men make their own history, but they do not make it as they please; they do not make it under self-selected circumstances, but under circumstances existing already, given and transmitted from the past. The tradition of all dead generations weighs like a nightmare on the brains of the living. And just as they seem to be occupied with revolutionizing themselves and things, creating something that did not exist before, precisely in such epochs of revolutionary crisis they anxiously conjure up the spirits of the past to their service, borrowing from them names, battle slogans, and costumes in order to present this new scene in world history in time-honored disguise and borrowed language."
-Karl Marx, The Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte
-Personalism: An Infantile Disorder, by Raandom Membera, self-proclaimed Pugilist-Confessor-Iconoclast* of the HaKhofshim sect

:V

*More splits, comrades! More splits! The more your movement splits, the more revolutionary it is!
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A weapon that works is a weapon that works. A functional strategy is a functional strategy. Our foes do not have a monopoly over them.
 
[X] The Binding Ring of Marriage. On the inviolability which soils the sanctity of marriage, and the prison it may build.
[X] The Double-Toil of the Back-Broke Bima. On the special demands of working women, those who are slaves within the home.
[X] With Candor. Vashti should move to build a much larger movement for the peasantry beyond the Ischak, and use her stature to trascend her local origins.
[X] Ravhood. Vashti is a Rav, whose righteousness substitutes for study! [Available because of your Fundament Sayings of Guru Myriam].
[X] Incarnation. Vashti is an incarnation of the original Prophet Vashti! [Available because of your Fundament Transmigration].
 
[X] The Binding Ring of Marriage. On the inviolability which soils the sanctity of marriage, and the prison it may build.
[X] The Double-Toil of the Back-Broke Bima. On the special demands of working women, those who are slaves within the home.
[X] With Candor. Vashti should move to build a much larger movement for the peasantry beyond the Ischak, and use her stature to trascend her local origins.
[X] Disavowal. Vashti is not a prophet, for the age of prophecy has ended, and the time of personalism must be put to the side in favour of the order of ordinary souls [Available due to Light and Darkness doctrine + Pugilist alignment].
[X] Elevation. Vashti is a prophet only insofar as she has been elevated by the people of the Ischak, and as such she is granted greater access to the Spiral of Truth by her elevation! [Available as a syncretic option of Transmigration + Accelerant + Pugilist origin].

Edit:
Welp, changing my mind at the last hours.
 
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Revelation derives from the will of the people. Universal freedom can only be brought about by collective action and unity. Epitomised by the practice of the angelforms.

For what purpose do we need the centralisation of power into a single man or woman? No matter how exemplary. We are the deluge, the dam cannot stop us from bringing forth the world to come.

(Also maybe shouting WHY SHOULD WE SHACKLE OURSELVES TO THE WILL OF A CORPSE. At the top of their lungs lmao)
 
Calling on fellow Elevation voters to approval vote Ravhood, because as Cetashwayo explained:
Cetashwayo said:
Ravhood is rooted in the radical tradition that a priest, and a wise soul, may come from anywhere.
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Ravhood does not claim Prophethood and because of that, as Wendam noted, it's the most politically pragmatic position. It also puts great pressure on Santsarran to either refuse the claim, which is more controversial than if Vashti claims prophecy because of Ravhood's precedent within the Amalgastene Creed (e.g. Pugilism's very own Pasan Ghadi is a Rav) or accept (thank you for legitimizing Metamoa, San).

Edit: Oh yeah! Ravhood is, alongside Disavowal, something she can be more open about to the Patriarchate. Which means it could be relevant in time for...the upcoming de jure non-binding constitutional convention that is the Mekubalic Conclave :drevil:
 
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[X] The Binding Ring of Marriage. On the inviolability which soils the sanctity of marriage, and the prison it may build.
[X] The Incharity of Man and the Woe of Woman. On the inequalities in wage and respect that pull women to the darkness.
[X] Ravhood. Vashti is a Rav, whose righteousness substitutes for study! [Available because of your Fundament Sayings of Guru Myriam].
[X] Elevation. Vashti is a prophet only insofar as she has been elevated by the people of the Ischak, and as such she is granted greater access to the Spiral of Truth by her elevation! [Available as a syncretic option of Transmigration + Accelerant + Pugilist origin].
 
Paraphrased information from the discord,: pasan ghadis original War plan was to march in to Nachivan and suck the patriarch dry
 
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[X] The Binding Ring of Marriage. On the inviolability which soils the sanctity of marriage, and the prison it may build.
[X] The Incharity of Man and the Woe of Woman. On the inequalities in wage and respect that pull women to the darkness.
[X] Elevation. Vashti is a prophet only insofar as she has been elevated by the people of the Ischak, and as such she is granted greater access to the Spiral of Truth by her elevation! [Available as a syncretic option of Transmigration + Accelerant + Pugilist origin].
 
[X]The Binding Ring of Marriage. On the inviolability which soils the sanctity of marriage, and the prison it may build.
[X] The Double-Toil of the Back-Broke Bima. On the special demands of working women, those who are slaves within the home.
[X] With Candor. Vashti should move to build a much larger movement for the peasantry beyond the Ischak, and use her stature to trascend her local origins.
[X] Elevation. Vashti is a prophet only insofar as she has been elevated by the people of the Ischak, and as such she is granted greater access to the Spiral of Truth by her elevation! [Available as a syncretic option of Transmigration + Accelerant + Pugilist origin].
 
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Have people failed to notice that Vaspukaran is a theocracy and that every single political faction and the overwhelming force of the population is firmly behind theocracy as a principle? Because all this talk of "shaking loose of the dead" seems to just completely miss that Amalgastine creed is the basis of the entire national existence and there is absolutely no margin for atheism either explicit or implied by declaring the people repositories of all authority without reference to their status as believers in Amalgast. You can be as radical as you want in trying to somehow force the Sect into Marxism with a Pugilist superstructure but the very nature of the setting resists it.

In any case while Incarnation has the "down side" of being compatible with the authority of past prophets (ie, more in tune with what people already believe and has a hook to legitimize it), Elevation does not create "democracy" or even spread power out. Any demagogue or warlord with a sufficient following can proclaim themselves to be a Prophet based on the fervor of their believers and ongoing successes. It is populism only in that the cult of personality needs a mass following; if anything though establishing a mantle of prophethood in the present day would concentrate power and authority in the hands of the elevated Prophet while encouraging the worst aspects of populism rather than creating a culture of democratic deliberation and responsible exercise of collective power.
 
Guys seriously 1 hour left, literally none of us have anything against Ravhood. Let's just all concentrate behind Ravhood, which does what every voting factions want and move on.

It starts democracy(without too many dangers of a cult of personality because Ravs are not as holy as Prophets), it recognizes Vashti as special, it doesnt deny the theologic cultural beliefs inherent in Vasp society, it strikes a blow and puts pressure on both the new and the old orders and it is fundamentally still radical.
 
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Cavalier said:
Because all this talk of "shaking loose of the dead" seems to just completely miss that Amalgastine creed is the basis of the entire national existence and there is absolutely no margin for atheism either explicit or implied by declaring the people repositories of all authority without reference to their status as believers in Amalgast.
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What in the blazes are you on about anti-personalism being atheist when even Disavowal rallies for liberatory revolutionary politics in a religious context. Elevation's support boils down to conditional confirmation of Vashti's claim to prophecy, a religious framework. Hell, speaking as a religious socialist, anti-personalism being automatically equated to implicit atheism is baffling to me.
 
Cavalier said:
Have people failed to notice that Vaspukaran is a theocracy and that every single political faction and the overwhelming force of the population is firmly behind theocracy as a principle? Because all this talk of "shaking loose of the dead" seems to just completely miss that Amalgastine creed is the basis of the entire national existence and there is absolutely no margin for atheism either explicit or implied by declaring the people repositories of all authority without reference to their status as believers in Amalgast. You can be as radical as you want in trying to somehow force the Sect into Marxism with a Pugilist superstructure but the very nature of the setting resists it.

In any case while Incarnation has the "down side" of being compatible with the authority of past prophets (ie, more in tune with what people already believe and has a hook to legitimize it), Elevation does not create "democracy" or even spread power out. Any demagogue or warlord with a sufficient following can proclaim themselves to be a Prophet based on the fervor of their believers and ongoing successes. It is populism only in that the cult of personality needs a mass following; if anything though establishing a mantle of prophethood in the present day would concentrate power and authority in the hands of the elevated Prophet while encouraging the worst aspects of populism rather than creating a culture of democratic deliberation and responsible exercise of collective power.
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Jesse, what the fuck are you talking about?
 
I don't think a vote for elevation is atheistic directly. It is very much tied to the can of worms opened by the Ravs. If the ghost of Amalgast can be assigned to a mortal by nothing more than a vote by a convocation of priests, then why can't a much larger and more accountable popular body do the same for a prophet?
 
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