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[WHF] The Broken Mirror - A Divided Loyalties Peggy Sue

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I wonder if it's worth talking to Melkoth about how valuable it would be for Mathilde to try to reverse engineer more divine lesser spells and then see if she can codify them for distribution.

A polyseviric spell is presumably a valuable thing for the Colleges at large.
 
Alratan said:
I wonder if it's worth talking to Melkoth about how valuable it would be for Mathilde to try to reverse engineer more divine lesser spells and then see if she can codify them for distribution.

A polyseviric spell is presumably a valuable thing for the Colleges at large.
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After we show him sanctuary, he might be interested.
Then we should try the one that boosts willpower.

I wonder how the ulgu version of that would turn out.
 
LightLan said:
We are some years prior to that here in Broken Mirrors, is the Turner still alive and if yes how much CF would a basic Staff that only gives +1 Magic cost? @kingreaper
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Unfortunately, upon rolling I discovered that the last turner died a good seven years ago in 2467.

If Algard wasn't in charge the Grey College might actually have a turner right now, but instead the person whose talents and personality best fit (which is rare in the Grey's) became a powerstone provider.

You can still have a staff crafted for 5 favour - there are a good few magisters who can make them who could do with the favour - it would just be quirky, as they're not practised enough to get reliable results for channelling someone else's magic.
 
Ok, new plan, we use our endless favor font to keep commissioning staffs until the gacha comes up Ranald. We pass the others along to the needy, and one of the part time turners absolutely definitely finds their true calling after crafting our masterpiece.

Now in the seventh generation, we'll want to have Cluckles von Roosterstein do the majority of the breeding, but then in the eightth and ninth generation we'll want to go back to a diversified rooster portfolio. :p
 
kingreaper said:
You can still have a staff crafted for 5 favour - there are a good few magisters who can make them who could do with the favour - it would just be quirky, as they're not practised enough to get reliable results for channelling someone else's magic.
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Well, I am definitely willing to shell out 5 CF when the next buy vote comes around. :D

IIRC Pans staff during K8P expedition kept growing into the ground as a quirk, I am looking forward to what you come up with :D
 
Thinking about uncommon Lesser Spells that the Grey College might be interesting in pirating, there's one called Glamour that hides the effects of any Marks or mutations that change your appearance in a bad way. It's commonly known by the Ungol Hags, developed to cover their Witchcraft Mark which ages them, but can be used by anyone.

It seems like the kind of thing that Ranald might grant, and we may be able to persuade Heidi to demonstrate.
 
Alratan said:
Thinking about uncommon Lesser Spells that the Grey College might be interesting in pirating, there's one called Glamour that hides the effects of any Marks or mutations that change your appearance in a bad way. It's commonly known by the Ungol Hags, developed to cover their Witchcraft Mark which ages them, but can be used by anyone.
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The grey college would love to have that, but hate that it exists :). No sharing it with other colleges certainly...

Now that I'm looking at Hag Witch stuff I'm sure Abelhelm would be very happy if someone managed to acquire knowledge of Ghost Shield - a lesser magic that shields the area around the caster against ghosts with 100% effectiveness (as long as the caster stays still) - and enchant it.
 
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[X] [Watch] You don't have time to micromanage Wurtbad - integrate them.
[X] [Social] Getting to know Melkoth before he officially becomes your superior
[X] [Social] Discussing the Cult of Sigmar with Emanuel Sigtreu
[X] [Social] Relaxing alongside the troops at Fort Redemption
[X] [Social] Visiting Zhufbar to congratulate Ashbeard on how effective the gun he sold you was
 
[X] [Social] Visiting Gabriella in her Sylvanian home, and asking about her recommending you for Stirland
 
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So... which spells are we going to prioritize?

Infiltration ones, Psychological warfare or Combatives?
 
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LightLan said:
I have mentioned my preferences here.
Could give you something to agree or disagree with.
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Hmm.

Why do we need shadow knives for KV again?

I know we used them on a Daemonette, while in combat... but this time around we're probably going to be at Magic 6, not 9 (unless we get a Staff before KV). I'd rather stick to Guns until we are at Magic 7.

I think we should get the Moderately complicated spells first: Illusion i'd make an exception for because it Synergizes with Protector for KV.

This time around I think I'd go for completing our exit strategy first. I think it's a good reflection of the character development of an older Mathilde underwent in her journey despite now being in her younger body.
Preparation is king. And if you're not prepared enough, make sure you can get out to survive another day.

Also: I wonder if Regimand will try to make a shadow tentacle as an arm replacement.
 
IronFist said:
Hmm.

Why do we need shadow knives for KV again?

I know we used them on a Daemonette, while in combat... but this time around we're probably going to be at Magic 6, not 9 (unless we get a Staff before KV). I'd rather stick to Guns until we are at Magic 7.

I think we should get the Moderately complicated spells first: Illusion i'd make an exception for because it Synergizes with Protector for KV.

This time around I think I'd go for completing our exit strategy first. I think it's a good reflection of the character development of an older Mathilde underwent in her journey despite now being in her younger body.
Preparation is king. And if you're not prepared enough, make sure you can get out to survive another day.

Also: I wonder if Regimand will try to make a shadow tentacle as an arm replacement.
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Shadow Knives is one of very few offensive Ulgu spells, and pretty much the best of the non-battle magic ones.

Mathilde is already back at Magic 5.
Two more points of Magic aren't that hard to get, it only takes one of:
  • learn 4-5 spells and get a staff (staff with a quirk costs 5 CF or we can make one for 1 AP)
  • learn 11-12 spells
We can learn three spells per AP on our own.
kingreaper said:
[ ] Having lost your knowledge of so many Shadow Magic spells you'll need to recover them somehow. Perhaps you could spend some of your time in the Grey College practising a handful of Relatively Simple spells (choose one, two or three spells to attempt to relearn - more spells means more chance of failure, but your skill is far beyond what it once was.)
[ ] College Lessons: Get trained in something as Magister Grey - either non-magical or spells of Moderately Complicated/Fiendishly Complex.
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With teachers we have learned more than 3 spells per AP before, likely depends on rolls though.
E.G. 4 spells here in DL.
BoneyM said:
[Practical Ulgu: Learning, 84+19=102]
[Rolling...]
[Eye of the Beholder learned!]
[Mutable Visage learned!]
[Mockery of Death learned!]
[Substance of Shadow learned!]
[Sufficient spells learned - magic level has increased!]
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Another 4 spells here in DL.
BoneyM said:
You do your best to ignore the atmosphere in the city and grab what training you can from whichever teachers are available in the Grey College, soaking up instruction like a sponge. You fill out your knowledge of the lower tiers of Grey Magic with the ability to give yourself the appearance of another with Doppelganger, the ability to cloud someone's mind to cause them to act unpredictably with Bewilder, and to create areas of impenetrable blackness with Pall of Darkness. But the real jewel of your learning comes when Magister Patriarch Algard passes you in a corridor, turns back, and asks you if you've learned Shadow of Death. "No," you say. Good, he replies, because you won't need it.

And in five minutes of rapid-fire instruction that takes you an hour after he's tottered off to absorb, he explains how to mask yourself in raw terror in such a way that you endanger the sanity of all who look upon you. It takes you a solid week in the training rooms until you manage it, but you grin to yourself at the possibilities inherent in such a potent spell.

[Studying Spells: Learning, 95+19=114]
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Only two spells that time, because of scheduling trouble. (Shadow Knives and Smoke & Mirrors)
BoneyM said:
[Scheduling Possibilities: 4]
[Rolling...]
[Learning Shadow Knives: Learning, 53+26=79.]
(...)
[Learning Smoke and Mirrors: Learning, Req 100, 65+26+20(Ranald's Blessing)=111.]
[Casting Smoke and Mirrors: Req 50, Learning, 20+26-20(partially learned)=26.]
[Miscast: Learning, 82+26=108.]
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And on the last try we learned 3 and almost managed to learn 4 :p
BoneyM said:
[Learn Cloak Activity: Learning, 23+26=49.]

Cloak Activity is not, in theory, a difficult spell. But it is one that by definition requires you to split your attention. You can maintain it well enough when you give it your full concentration, but when you try to do something else - and there's no point to the spell if you're not doing something else - it frays at the edges before collapsing in on itself. You're right on the cusp of grasping it, you know you are, but with your schedule so efficiently filled there's no more time to give. You curse your own hubris and move on.

[Learn Shroud of Invisibility: Learning, 74+26=100.]
[Rolling...]
[Rolling...]

Shroud of Invisibility proves much simpler, as it proves similar to Substance of Shadow, but much easier to maintain. This proves to be a mixed blessing, because while it does mean that most of what you know from Substance of Shadow is directly applicable, that's not the same as all. You slip into the habits you picked up from the more complex spell one too many times, and as you ground what you can of a malformed spell and cough up thick grey clouds of billowing flog that flickers between real and unreal, you notice how drawn to you it seems, and later discover it's apparently universal to any sort of visible gas or vapour. You take the lesson on overconfidence to heart, and thoroughly memorize the process for casting Shroud of Invisibility before resuming practice, and you're able to finally fill that gap in your arsenal.

[Arcane Mark acquired: Mantle of Mist]
[Learn Illusion: Learning, 41+26+20(Partial)=87.]
[Learning Universal Confusion: Learning, 90+26+20(Partial)=136.]

You're also able to wrap up some unfinished business from Illusion, finishing off what the lessons you took a year ago started without any trouble, but you're not sure you're able to say the same for Universal Confusion. Though you're quickly able to successfully cast the spell, you're not immediately able to keep the spell from immediately being drawn back to you until it becomes dense enough to collapse into a cloud of bewildering fog. It takes a fair bit of work to finally manifest the spell as it should be, and then a little more to study the interesting possibilities of the spell as it has entwined itself with your latest Arcane Mark.

[Mastery acquired: Universal Confusion]
[+1 Magic due to total spells learned]
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Algard ordered us to keep our schedule cleared for training, which I take as having to spend 3-4 AP per turn on training.
Making for 9-12 spells per turn, possibly more since this time we get training from Melkoth and not some random Magisters.
 
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As Magic is based on number of spells known, then we might want to keep pirating divine spells as well as learning higher order ones.

I also think we should consider first paying for a tutor for battle magic enchanting and then asking Melkoth to assign a battle wizard to work with us to make enchantments. Something like a Mindrazor would make a huge difference here.

I think we should slow down on the spell learning so we can dedicate the Coin to it. We also want to be doing things like recruiting Belegar, so we'll be busy.
 
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Alratan said:
As Magic is based on number of spells known, then we might want to keep pirating divine spells as well as learning higher order ones.

I also think we should consider first paying for a tutor for battle magic enchanting and then asking Melkoth to assign a battle wizard to work with us to make enchantments. Something like a Mindrazor would make a huge difference here.

I think we should slow down on the spell learning so we can dedicate the Coin to it. We also want to be doing things like recruiting Belegar, so we'll be busy.
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There are only 3 more points of Magic to be had from learning spells, no matter how many spells we learn.

Mindrazor is not really suited for an enchantment, because enchantments lack willpower and mindrazor needs that.

We got assigned to Melkoth because Mathilde said she needs to learn spells before becoming useful against the Skaven. Algard will take it badly should she drag her feet on that.
 
LightLan said:
There are only 3 more points of Magic to be had from learning spells, no matter how many spells we learn.

Mindrazor is not really suited for an enchantment, because enchantments lack willpower and mindrazor needs that.

We got assigned to Melkoth because Mathilde said she needs to learn spells before becoming useful against the Skaven. Algard will take it badly should she drag her feet on that.
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Having learned more lesser spells means that it's safer to learn the fiendishly complex spells when the time comes.

Mindrazor doesn't use the caster's willpower. It uses the wielders' willpower. It doesn't matter if a zero willpower item casts the spell on the wielder, or an inhumanly determined elven archmage casts the spell on them, what matters is how strong the willpower the person holding the Mindrazor is.

Mathilde will be wielding the Mindrazor here, and she has an incredibly strong willpower.

We said we weren't ready to face the Skaven. We also said that helping the dwarves was a better way of opposing the Skaven.
 
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LightLan said:
There are only 3 more points of Magic to be had from learning spells, no matter how many spells we learn.
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I was under the impression that creating a significant number of new spells was the alternative way to reach magic 10 in DL, other than the Brand of Ulgu.
I'd try to search the DL thread for Word of Boney but I'm kind of braindead at the moment.

Iä! Iä! Piklepikkl fhtagn! Ph'nglui mglw'nfah Piklepikkl R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
 
IronFist said:
I was under the impression that creating a significant number of new spells was the alternative way to reach magic 10 in DL, other than the Brand of Ulgu.
I'd try to search the DL thread for Word of Boney but I'm kind of braindead at the moment.

Iä! Iä! Piklepikkl fhtagn! Ph'nglui mglw'nfah Piklepikkl R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
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Yes, creating spells can raise magic score iirc, but only Mathilde creating spells.

Mathilde learning spells other people have created won't. (excepting the 3 more from filling the current pre-battle magic spellbook)

TLDR: Learning spells is not the same as creating spells.
 
LightLan said:
Yes, creating spells can raise magic score iirc, but only Mathilde creating spells.

Mathilde learning spells other people have created won't. (excepting the 3 more from filling the current pre-battle magic spellbook)

TLDR: Learning spells is not the same as creating spells.
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Developing new arcane spells based on divine magic is an odd edge case.
 
LightLan said:
Yes, creating spells can raise magic score iirc, but only Mathilde creating spells.

Mathilde learning spells other people have created won't. (excepting the 3 more from filling the current pre-battle magic spellbook)

TLDR: Learning spells is not the same as creating spells.
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I see no difference between adapting divine spells to her Ulgu based paradigm, and creating a new spell from whole cloth.

Or for instance adapting a spell to use another elemental medium. Boney said that that kind of thing doesn't even require a trait.
 
IronFist said:
I see no difference between adapting divine spells to her Ulgu based paradigm, and creating a new spell from whole cloth.

Or for instance adapting a spell to use another elemental medium. Boney said that that kind of thing doesn't even require a trait.
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There's a difference when it comes to Lesser Magic in that the adaptation is on the same level as adapting Skywalk from Ulgu to Azyr. It's harder for most mages because they can't see the divine magic, but it doesn't require the deep understanding of inventing a new spell.

It could result in a boost if you do it enough and with weird lesser spells. Not so much because it's converting divine ->arcane as because it's incorporating things about the universal nature of magic that no-one in the colleges knew - the boost from learning the spells is because you're learning the fundamental tricks each one uses, and the college's curriculum was designed to build people up to Battle Magic by teaching those fundamentals. If a new spell uses a new fundamental then it will contribute, but if it's a familiar fundamental in a new way less so.

And there's no way to know for sure if a spell uses a new fundamental without learning it, but certain spells are more likely to than others - the weirder the effect the more likely it is to help.

Given as I've got the Kislev book open I'll use examples from that: the Lesser Spell "Tap" that allows you to draw energy from leylines and waystones for ritual casting [a spell that is clearly known to the Jade College] is one that would definitely help push towards such things - while the spell "Vazila" (which tells you when someone steals your horse) is too similar to Alarm to stand much chance of doing so.
 
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kingreaper said:
Given as I've got the Kislev book open I'll use examples from that: the Lesser Spell "Tap" that allows you to draw energy from leylines and waystones for ritual casting [a spell that is clearly known to the Jade College] is one that would definitely help push towards such things - while the spell "Vazila" (which tells you when someone steals your horse) is too similar to Alarm to stand much chance of doing so.
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Ooo, nice i'm going to go look at some books and make some guesses then :)
 
kingreaper said:
Given as I've got the Kislev book open I'll use examples from that: the Lesser Spell "Tap" that allows you to draw energy from leylines and waystones for ritual casting [a spell that is clearly known to the Jade College] is one that would definitely help push towards such things - while the spell "Vazila" (which tells you when someone steals your horse) is too similar to Alarm to stand much chance of doing so.
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I'd imagine that Link, which allows collaborative spellcasting, is another one like Tap.

Hand of God, which protects from being mutated, and Suppress Mutation, which temporarily removes one of a mutants' mutations may also be pretty interesting.

Side-Step, which allows you to jump into the Aethyr and jump out somewhere nearby if a daemon doesn't eat you on the way is also potentially interesting. Particularly for the other Colleges, but you can also see how it might be used by the Grey College to access other planes of existence that don't have daemons infesting them.

Talking of Side-Slip, it would be interesting to use to infiltrate Karak Vlag ahead of rescuing it to gather intelligence or prepare them.
 
Alratan said:
We shouldn't invest time in Gabriella now. We've done that before.
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We haven't, though? We've actually yet to even meet her in this timeline. The fact that we got kinda chummy with her last go-round is a reason to spend time with her now, since it lets us cash in on the shiny we bought whilst getting time-yeeted. Which (especially once you also factor in that our mutual friend can vouch for us) could be REALLY useful for busting holes in this conspiracy, since we've confirmed that she's put herself in a high enough position to make recommendations that get followed, which means she Knows Stuff. So the x-factor is whether she can be convinced to share, so spending time with her and rebuilding that connection can only be helpful.

[x] [Investigate] Plan for yourself or one of your spies to follow up more carefully, later
[x] [Watch] You don't have time to micromanage Wurtbad - integrate them.
[x] [Social] Joining Thekla Donatus, Abelhelm and Hans von Eerie at the castle for a meal
[x] [Social] Getting to know Melkoth before he officially becomes your superior
[x] [Social] Visiting Gabriella in her Sylvanian home, and asking about her recommending you for Stirland
[x] [Social] Letting Kurtis Krammovich question you
 
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