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[Continuation] Schwarz-Rot-Gold: An Interwar Germany Quest

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Valkyrien said:
I can't remember did we ever encounter the Nazi Party?
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They aren't a thing yet, and probably won't be. Especially along those lines, most of the people who patronized and were big members of it early went over to the Triad. The closest thing we'll have is the DNVP I suspect, which is probably hollowed out for the aforementioned reasons. I expect Zentrum and the SPD are much strengthened right now.
 
Say, how would a Reconstruction a la post American Civil War go over? Here, I'm referring specifically to the temporary disenfranchisement of notable rebel associates. On one hand, it might nip the issue of an elected extremist, but on the other hand, our political rivals would have some ammo to work with.
 
Valkyrien said:
So was Hitler a member of the Triad then?

Also thanks
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We got no idea, for all we know Hitler could've returned to Austria and continued painting. If he did involve himself its likely he'd either try to gather support for the Triad, or smooch off support from the Triad for his own movement. We'd probably just consider the Nazis a splinter from the Volkisch elements if they popped up here.
 
Valkyrien said:
So was Hitler a member of the Triad then?

Also thanks
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We don't know, but probably. Unless he was a high ranking officer he'll probably slip through though, which is a shame. His main patron is gone though, and he might not even be alive for all we know. I don't think he'll reach the heights in German politics he got to this time around, it took a storm of events that are extremely unlikely this time around for his Chancellorship to happen. You're welcome!

Also, might I convince some of you guys to switch from a Polish victory? Poland is not exactly a friendly neighbor either, and having the Soviets next to us would actually probably be a diplomatic boon for us. I really doubt the Soviets would invade us right now, since their civil war still isn't done, and their forces are exhausted. Plus, they'll need to secure Poland. It was implied that the Triad did some bad stuff in Silesia, and that would add another complication of having them win. Dealing with the Sanation regime sounds like a pain as well.

EDIT: With Poland taken care of, we could also probably annex the Free City of Danzig. Which would be a big domestic victory and add an intact city with a dynamic economy into our nation.
 
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mouli said:
[]Eagle Unbowed: Poland has won on the Vistula, at a terrible cost in men and munitions. The eagle is as yet unbowed and unbroken, and the Soviets have been thrown back out of Poland – a peace of mutual exhaustion now reigns in eastern Europe, as the Soviet armies head east to deliver a coup de grace to the White Armies on Russian soil.
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Didn't Poland win or draw the Soviets in real life? Did the Poles lose in the SRG universe despite our sending them arms?
 
chriswriter90 said:
Didn't Poland win or draw the Soviets in real life? Did the Poles lose in the SRG universe despite our sending them arms?
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Poland won in real life. The previous thread did indeed send them arms, but the fact that they lost most of their field army at Kiev - added to Sverdlov quashing most of the political infighting among the commanders in Poland - made the Soviets work far more smoothly than historically. That can lead to a Polish defeat, albeit a bloody one that has Polish resistance operating from the Krakow redoubt and Soviet units horrifically overstretched.
If the thread goes for that.
 
Mr. Sandman said:
We don't know, but probably. Unless he was a high ranking officer he'll probably slip through though, which is a shame. His main patron is gone though, and he might not even be alive for all we know. I don't think he'll reach the heights in German politics he got to this time around, it took a storm of events that are extremely unlikely this time around for his Chancellorship to happen. You're welcome!

Also, might I convince some of you guys to switch from a Polish victory? Poland is not exactly a friendly neighbor either, and having the Soviets next to us would actually probably be a diplomatic boon for us. I really doubt the Soviets would invade us right now, since their civil war still isn't done, and their forces are exhausted. Plus, they'll need to secure Poland. It was implied that the Triad did some bad stuff in Silesia, and that would add another complication of having them win. Dealing with the Sanation regime sounds like a pain as well.

EDIT: With Poland taken care of, we could also probably annex the Free City of Danzig. Which would be a big domestic victory and add an intact city with a dynamic economy into our nation.
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While your arguments are convincing, I am concerned about who might take power in the USSR. What if it's someone worse then Stalin (for us that is)?
 
chriswriter90 said:
Didn't Poland win or draw the Soviets in real life? Did the Poles lose in the SRG universe despite our sending them arms?
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They held their ground at Vistula OTL. The Soviets are a bit different, and the Polish Army also had the Triad to guard against, which could plausibly butterfly it away, despite us sending Vorbek there. I think we would be better off if they lost, honestly
 
[X]The Soldier: Fritz Muller has known little but war for most of his adult life. He was drafted at seventeen, and went to the front in 1914. Muller survived the war, survived the civil war that followed, and has put down his rifle in August 1920 to face a brave new world that he doesn't know how to navigate. His section is dead or crippled, his army has dissolved once more and the Kaiser that he took an oath to serve in 1914 is in Germany no longer. Fritz Muller has been naught but a soldier at war, and now he is one no longer.

[X]The Merchant of Death: Gustav Krupp made a deal with the Devil in 1920, a deal to sell arms in conjunction with Sir Basil Zaharoff and Vickers Corporation. Sir Basil has sold arms the world over to anyone who can pay, and with Krupp's former war-plants now disassembled and being 'scrapped' in France by Zaharoff, German-pattern arms will be seen in every war from China to the Balkans. A brave new world, full of rich markets, now beckons.

[X]The Detective: Detective Arthur Biermann is part of the Berlin Special Branch, trained by a Belgian detective and now coming to terms with his new duties – the Special Branch was founded to deal with terrorism, insurrection and sensitive tasks. With the new peace in the republic, that task will hopefully be of less importance. Biermann wouldn't bet on it.

These three interest the most, though the only one I'm really attached to is Fritz as we've seen him survive all this bullshit and I want to see him do well as Germany prospers in peace. Hopefully.

[X]Eagle Unbowed: Poland has won on the Vistula, at a terrible cost in men and munitions. The eagle is as yet unbowed and unbroken, and the Soviets have been thrown back out of Poland – a peace of mutual exhaustion now reigns in eastern Europe, as the Soviet armies head east to deliver a coup de grace to the White Armies on Russian soil.

We made some inroads with Polish diplomacy, it could be interesting to see where it goes.
 
Twiggierjet said:
While your arguments are convincing, I am concerned about who might take power in the USSR. What if it's someone worse then Stalin (for us that is)?
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Stalin is probably the best case scenario honestly. He was much more inwardly focused than the internationalists, revolution in one country and all that. Lenin still has a couple of years in charge, but to be honest, if an agressive internationalist takes power, we'd have to worry about them anyway, neighbors or not. With Poland fallen, we'd be forced to be better prepared for a worst case scenario. Especially since we wouldn't have a chance if the Entente doesn't let us rearm or imposed crippling reparations, which they will if they feel they can get away with it. With the Soviets next to us, they'll feel much more inclined to negotiate.
MaHaL said:
We made some inroads with Polish diplomacy, it could be interesting to see where it goes.
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We didn't really, actually. They hate us and if they thought they could get away with it they'd take Silesia. The main reason we cooperated with them was because they were more afraid of the Triad than us and making it seem we were allies scared them off. It was an alliance of convenience and nothing more, they desperately needed help against the Soviets and we needed to make the Triad feel squished. You'll note that when we entered peace negotiations, they thought we were in cahoots with the Poles to invade them.
 
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[X]The Soldier: Fritz Muller has known little but war for most of his adult life. He was drafted at seventeen, and went to the front in 1914. Muller survived the war, survived the civil war that followed, and has put down his rifle in August 1920 to face a brave new world that he doesn't know how to navigate. His section is dead or crippled, his army has dissolved once more and the Kaiser that he took an oath to serve in 1914 is in Germany no longer. Fritz Muller has been naught but a soldier at war, and now he is one no longer.

[X]The Doctor: Professor Emil Fischer is a practicing surgeon and teacher at the Katharinenhospital in Stuttgart, and has seen the war close-up. Most of the severely wounded were dispatched to his wards for reconstruction, and before that he was a surgeon on the Western Front. Emil Fischer has seen death and conducted triage for five bloody years, and now comes peace. Dr. Fischer has doubts as to the durability of that.

[X]The Detective: Detective Arthur Biermann is part of the Berlin Special Branch, trained by a Belgian detective and now coming to terms with his new duties – the Special Branch was founded to deal with terrorism, insurrection and sensitive tasks. With the new peace in the republic, that task will hopefully be of less importance. Biermann wouldn't bet on it.
[X]Eagle Unbowed: Poland has won on the Vistula, at a terrible cost in men and munitions. The eagle is as yet unbowed and unbroken, and the Soviets have been thrown back out of Poland – a peace of mutual exhaustion now reigns in eastern Europe, as the Soviet armies head east to deliver a coup de grace to the White Armies on Russian soil.

The game is afoot.
 
I guess what I'm worried about with the other option is who the USSR will pick as their leader. The Polish winning won't be great, but it's a situation that we can predict and prepare for. The USSR winning gives us a border with a state whose goals we will have no way of guessing the instant Lenin bites it and the power struggle starts.
 
[X]The Soldier: Fritz Muller has known little but war for most of his adult life. He was drafted at seventeen, and went to the front in 1914. Muller survived the war, survived the civil war that followed, and has put down his rifle in August 1920 to face a brave new world that he doesn't know how to navigate. His section is dead or crippled, his army has dissolved once more and the Kaiser that he took an oath to serve in 1914 is in Germany no longer. Fritz Muller has been naught but a soldier at war, and now he is one no longer.

[X]The Doctor: Professor Emil Fischer is a practicing surgeon and teacher at the Katharinenhospital in Stuttgart, and has seen the war close-up. Most of the severely wounded were dispatched to his wards for reconstruction, and before that he was a surgeon on the Western Front. Emil Fischer has seen death and conducted triage for five bloody years, and now comes peace. Dr. Fischer has doubts as to the durability of that.

[X]The Detective: Detective Arthur Biermann is part of the Berlin Special Branch, trained by a Belgian detective and now coming to terms with his new duties – the Special Branch was founded to deal with terrorism, insurrection and sensitive tasks. With the new peace in the republic, that task will hopefully be of less importance. Biermann wouldn't bet on it.

[X]The Heir is Dead: Yakov Sverdlov was Lenin's protege, and he survived his influenza infection in 1919 to direct the decossackization of Ukraine in 1919-1920. Upon his death, the succession in the Soviet Union has been thrown once more into doubt, as the moderate internationalist Sverdlov has left a vacancy that Lenin has hesitated to fill.
 
So anyone up for a potential rearming campaign so we can be a bulwark against a potential Soviet invasion... cause if so we should try to get the Rhineland back to if we can.
 
@mouli If the Poles manage to win, what would the border look like?

Because if they are fairly bloodied then it's possible that the USSR got a further border/took the areas with Ukrainian presence.
 
Magoose said:
So anyone up for a potential rearming campaign so we can be a bulwark against a potential Soviet invasion... cause if so we should try to get the Rhineland back to if we can.
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We won't. France doesn't care about us that much as to give that back.
Personally, if we are renegotiating, I think we ought to focus on being allowed an air force. That's going to be important.
 
Blackstar said:
@mouli If the Poles manage to win, what would the border look like?

Because if they are fairly bloodied then it's possible that the USSR got a further border/took the areas with Ukrainian presence.
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You do not know IC. The Soviets may decide or be able to rip off ethnic Ukrainian/Belarusian/Russian regions from Eastern Poland.
 
[X] The Communist: Ernst Thalmann is a former soldier, a decorated one, who did a bunk from the Army in 1918 for the sake of the November Revolution and the Uprising that followed it. Thalmann's side of the war has lost...this time. The next time will be different, and that is why Ernst Thalmann has remained in Germany – to organize the workers and make sure that they are in a position to take what is theirs by right. Weimar is unstable, and presents opportunities.
[X] The Doctor: Professor Emil Fischer is a practicing surgeon and teacher at the Katharinenhospital in Stuttgart, and has seen the war close-up. Most of the severely wounded were dispatched to his wards for reconstruction, and before that he was a surgeon on the Western Front. Emil Fischer has seen death and conducted triage for five bloody years, and now comes peace. Dr. Fischer has doubts as to the durability of that.
[X] The Detective: Detective Arthur Biermann is part of the Berlin Special Branch, trained by a Belgian detective and now coming to terms with his new duties – the Special Branch was founded to deal with terrorism, insurrection and sensitive tasks. With the new peace in the republic, that task will hopefully be of less importance. Biermann wouldn't bet on it.
[X] The Heir is Dead: Yakov Sverdlov was Lenin's protege, and he survived his influenza infection in 1919 to direct the decossackization of Ukraine in 1919-1920. Upon his death, the succession in the Soviet Union has been thrown once more into doubt, as the moderate internationalist Sverdlov has left a vacancy that Lenin has hesitated to fill.

@mouli - Just to make sure I understand the situation correctly, our actions to support the Polish in the previous thread will still matter if we have them lose? That is to say, the Bolshevik victory will be even bloodier and the Polish remnants in better shape?
 
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