A Simple Transaction I
- Thread starter Rihaku
- Start date
- Original
RoQ's Praxis cost is not really relevant currently due to our overinflated Praxis pool, so reducing it wouldn't do much. Like, it would let us use one or two Quickenings more, which is not important when you already have thirty of them. As such reducing its cost has very limited utility.
[X] Vanquisher's Grace + Auspice Temporal
Dunno why is this not in the lead. This would actually make Gisena useful combatant while also boosting her (out of Pillars) research speed. Combination of Auspice's timestop and Nullity bomb will also give us one use trump card for the coming month.
[X] Flight of Falling Stars
Man, this has some potential. Right now its merely ok, but we can really abuse this with something like As Above, whose yearly cd would get completely negated by this. We have offered multiple really powerful Signs with really long cooldowns, and this would make them relatively spamable, especially within Realm of Evening or by using Summoning. Hell, in theory you could chain summon with this, each killed summon allowing another use of Enclosure.
For real funsies, we can use our ability to use Graces(obligatory lol Graces) to have Gisena design us Hyper Reactor equivalent, then use enemies generated by Realm of Evening to be able to utilize Hyper Reactor twice every day.
[X] Vanquisher's Grace + Auspice Temporal
Dunno why is this not in the lead. This would actually make Gisena useful combatant while also boosting her (out of Pillars) research speed. Combination of Auspice's timestop and Nullity bomb will also give us one use trump card for the coming month.
[X] Flight of Falling Stars
Man, this has some potential. Right now its merely ok, but we can really abuse this with something like As Above, whose yearly cd would get completely negated by this. We have offered multiple really powerful Signs with really long cooldowns, and this would make them relatively spamable, especially within Realm of Evening or by using Summoning. Hell, in theory you could chain summon with this, each killed summon allowing another use of Enclosure.
For real funsies, we can use our ability to use Graces(obligatory lol Graces) to have Gisena design us Hyper Reactor equivalent, then use enemies generated by Realm of Evening to be able to utilize Hyper Reactor twice every day.
[X] Make Whole + Sealing Protocol Level I
Looks like we still haven't fixed our Blade, which this will hopefully help with.
[X] Forebear's Blade - Headsman
We haven't used bladewinds in forever and have other ranged options besides, so this is pretty great value. Plus an effective Defense Speed bonus, which is even rarer than an Attack Speed bonus!
Hopefully people won't start calling us the Royal Executioner...
Looks like we still haven't fixed our Blade, which this will hopefully help with.
[X] Forebear's Blade - Headsman
We haven't used bladewinds in forever and have other ranged options besides, so this is pretty great value. Plus an effective Defense Speed bonus, which is even rarer than an Attack Speed bonus!
Hopefully people won't start calling us the Royal Executioner...
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
Hrm. Sealing Protocol Level I+Auspice Temporal? It could be 15-20x time acceleration and 6 Seconds of TImestop. (Edit: Combined with Physical stat boosts from Enhanced True Perfecting Blade)
Edit: For reference, the base is 10x time acceleration, with a 3 second time stop once a month
Edit: It could also be the ability to spend all waking hours benefiting from the Grace.
Edit: For reference, the base is 10x time acceleration, with a 3 second time stop once a month
Edit: It could also be the ability to spend all waking hours benefiting from the Grace.
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It actually provides a reroll daily.
- Location
- Louisiana
Giving gisena a res skill doesn't just fix our blade it makes it so we can make sure we can come back if we take too big of a risk. Res skills are fun and important, it's like sword in the stone but better cause it makes gisena less relevant outside of resurrecting us. Win win.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
We already have COTK's Res.
Zampano
🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈
- Location
- Simping for DSB
I used to do effortposts about the different effects of each option. I'm going to try and do the same here, but I can't get over how wasteful the leading vote is.
Build Cleanup is Bad, Actually.
#1035 Words
First, the most important thing is to establish a baseline. What would we get from 9 Echoes? (That's the SAVE option).
*Note: Does not account for the +50% All Stats from Teamwork under Companions of the King
Now let's gather together all the blurbs for Build Cleanup:
*Note: Does not account for the +50% All Stats from Teamwork under Companions of the King
With Iridescence, we are paying 2P/2A for 6.1 PROT & expanded magic resistance. Good thing we're buying Magic Resist now that we're heading to the Human Sphere, which is known for its proliferation of many different types of magic.
Honing has always been very good. I won't whine about that one.
Exalted Spirit is Brain Day, and provides some badly needed mental stats. The additional boost to allies is pretty minor but maybe it's thematic or symbolic or something. They are going to need to step up now that their Rank will be high enough to influence Interstellar Politics.
Let's compare this with the alternative blurbs:
*Note: Does not account for the +50% All Stats from Teamwork under Companions of the King
Taken alongside 8 Echoes:
This Blurb also has high potential: It unlocks the Forebear Defensive advancements that we need to swaddle sweet, precious Aobaru. It also makes us more likely to grab Dreadnaught's Bearing (the Eyeball/Rune King advancement).
*Note: Does not account for the +50% All Stats from Teamwork under Companions of the King
Taken alongside 8 Echoes, we get a dramatic boost in our overall Power of Ruin (about 1/5 again over our current Ruin score). We also have a dramatic increase in the power behind any given swing. The loss of blade winds is partially compensated by the substantial increase in the Ruin defense as well as the boosted Rank for defensive maneuvers.
Mental stats are nice but not decisive for this build.
*Note: Does not account for the +50% All Stats from Teamwork under Companions of the King
Taken with 8 Echoes, also:
Like, I'm almost at a loss for words at how good this is. We're all-in on Rank, and Fisher King + Companions just supercharged our rate of Rank growth. The Deathly Star is only going to get stronger.
Okay, so now is the part where I am supposed to do analysis. But the tradeoffs seem pretty stark:
My GREED GANG membership requires that I observe that the combination of Iron Curtain & Headsman confers +.2 Rank at parrying exotic attacks, and more than doubles our current STR score when using such tactics.
After spending well over an hour calculating the marginal gains, I guess that Build Cleanup isn't Bad, but I stand by my assertion that Iridescence is utter dogshit. Iridescence is the cost we pay to get the Combat INT of Honing.
No comment right now about whether or how these blurbs interact with Gisena's Grace selection.
Build Cleanup is Bad, Actually.
#1035 Words
First, the most important thing is to establish a baseline. What would we get from 9 Echoes? (That's the SAVE option).
| Statistic | Plusses | After Modifiers & Conversion Effects |
|---|---|---|
| Strength | +9 | +18.9 / +Ruin: ~4500 |
| Constitution | +9 | +18.9 |
| Agility | +9 | +25.2 |
Now let's gather together all the blurbs for Build Cleanup:
It's not clear what else falls under "Etc". If we earn one more Arete, we could grab Dominion: War / Passion, or we could spend 2 picks on Augment Dominion: Blood. I'm not sure what other low-pick options are always unlocked. For purposes of Analysis, I'm going to assume we spend 1 pick on Exalted Spirit, 1 pick on Iridescence, 1 pick on Opalescence, 1 pick on Honing, and 5 picks on 5 Echoes. Just to save you the time, that amounts to the following boosts while in a form with physical blood:
| Statistic | Plusses | After Modifiers & Conversion effects |
|---|---|---|
| Strength | +5 | +10.5 / +Ruin: ~2500 |
| Constitution | +5 | +10.5 |
| Agility | +8 | +14 |
| Wits | +3 | +4.8 |
| PROT (Now incl. Magic Resist) | +2 | +8.6 (incl CHA->PROT) |
| CHA | +2 | +5 |
| INT | +1 | +23.2 (Combat) / +1.6 (else) |
| WIS | +1 | +1.3 |
| Heartlessness | -1 | - |
| Allies' INT & CHA | +1 | - |
With Iridescence, we are paying 2P/2A for 6.1 PROT & expanded magic resistance. Good thing we're buying Magic Resist now that we're heading to the Human Sphere, which is known for its proliferation of many different types of magic.
Honing has always been very good. I won't whine about that one.
Exalted Spirit is Brain Day, and provides some badly needed mental stats. The additional boost to allies is pretty minor but maybe it's thematic or symbolic or something. They are going to need to step up now that their Rank will be high enough to influence Interstellar Politics.
Let's compare this with the alternative blurbs:
| Statistics | Plusses | After Modifiers & Conversion effects |
|---|---|---|
| Strength | +8 | +20 / +Ruin: ~4800 |
| Constitution | +11 | +23.1 |
| Agility | +8 | +22.4 |
| Protection | +3 | +5.4 |
| Willpower | +2 | +3.2 |
Taken alongside 8 Echoes:
- Ignore Wounds
- Inherit the World (Penitent) already allows us to ignore wound penalties.
- Effects could stack tho?
- Deflect Exotic Attacks
- ADS Ruin Defense: *exists*
- Unlocks Forebear Defensive Tech Tree when taken alongside Dreadnaught's Bearing (the eyeball healing / Rune King advancement)
This Blurb also has high potential: It unlocks the Forebear Defensive advancements that we need to swaddle sweet, precious Aobaru. It also makes us more likely to grab Dreadnaught's Bearing (the Eyeball/Rune King advancement).
| Statistic | Plusses | After Modifiers & Conversion effects |
|---|---|---|
| Strength | +13 | +27.1 / +Ruin: 6600 |
| Strength (blade) | +95.3 | |
| Constitution | +8 | +16.8 |
| Agility | +8 | +22.4 |
| Agility (parrying) | +56.9 | |
| INT (combat) | +2 | +3.2 |
| WIS (combat) | +2 | +2.6 |
| WIT | +2 | +3.2 |
Taken alongside 8 Echoes, we get a dramatic boost in our overall Power of Ruin (about 1/5 again over our current Ruin score). We also have a dramatic increase in the power behind any given swing. The loss of blade winds is partially compensated by the substantial increase in the Ruin defense as well as the boosted Rank for defensive maneuvers.
Mental stats are nice but not decisive for this build.
| Statistic | Plusses | After Modifiers & Conversion Effects |
|---|---|---|
| Strength | +8 | +16.8 / +Ruin: ~4000 |
| Constitution | +8 | +16.8 |
| Agility | +8 | +22.4 |
Taken with 8 Echoes, also:
- Use Deathly Star on 2 more opponents per day
Like, I'm almost at a loss for words at how good this is. We're all-in on Rank, and Fisher King + Companions just supercharged our rate of Rank growth. The Deathly Star is only going to get stronger.
Okay, so now is the part where I am supposed to do analysis. But the tradeoffs seem pretty stark:
- SAVE: Ruin power about 70% of max potential. Makes it easier to buy an EFB sometime soon.
- Cleanup: Ruin power about 40% of max potential. Variety of mental boosts, notably a dramatic +Combat INT of 3/5 again over its current value
- Iron Curtain: Ruin power about 70% of max potential. Makes it possible to buy additional Defensive upgrades
- Headsman: MAXIMUM RUIN POWER, increasing our Ruin Score by 1/5 again over its current value. Dramatic increase in close quarters skill with the blade, at the cost of losing blade winds.
- Falling Stars: Ruin power about 60% of max potential. Triples the number of Deathly Star alpha-strikes allowed per day.
My GREED GANG membership requires that I observe that the combination of Iron Curtain & Headsman confers +.2 Rank at parrying exotic attacks, and more than doubles our current STR score when using such tactics.
After spending well over an hour calculating the marginal gains, I guess that Build Cleanup isn't Bad, but I stand by my assertion that Iridescence is utter dogshit. Iridescence is the cost we pay to get the Combat INT of Honing.
No comment right now about whether or how these blurbs interact with Gisena's Grace selection.
Make Whole can also restore object and per Rihaku it would partially restore the Blade.
Of course, taking that instead of Gisena's combat buffs is hilariously bad. Minor stamina buff that won't matter ever vs fully relevant Gisena that can time stop Nullity bomb people.
DarkSideBard
Flying, without moving on
[X] Make Whole + Sealing Protocol Level I
[X] Save
Wow, Seraph's Favor basically getting us a free Praxis EFB? The CBA vote just keeps paying dividends.
Now I see how the Apocryphal Curse can still pop in the RoE though. Shit. Now I'm extra glad that we didn't supercharge it more than it already is.
[X] Save
Wow, Seraph's Favor basically getting us a free Praxis EFB? The CBA vote just keeps paying dividends.
Now I see how the Apocryphal Curse can still pop in the RoE though. Shit. Now I'm extra glad that we didn't supercharge it more than it already is.
Zampano
🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈
- Location
- Simping for DSB
(That's not an Apo proc, that was Sharkey's wish.)
Also:
We should get Headsman. It would increase power of ruin by 1/5 again even after considering the effects of RoB.
Build cleanup spends 3/5 of that potential Ruin budget on grabbing a Combat INT upgrade.
Headsman + Iron Curtain would give us an active defense, in case Apo-Chan sets up a hard-counter to the Power of Ruin...
[X] Vanquisher's Grace + Auspice Temporal
[X] Archsmith's Hammer + Evoker's Panoply
[X] Forebear's Blade - Iron Curtain
[X] Forebear's Blade - Headsman
[X] Flight of Falling Stars
- Location
- Louisiana
I honestly forgot companions gave a res because it's pretty uninteresting to me and I'm still salty it beat out exalted. Either way if there's anything we'd want redundancy on it'd probably be ways to res ourselves and others. We do face quite a bit of danger.
...yes, it was the Favor
Blade winds carry the full power of Ruin which is 33k at the moment and would scale endlessly. Losing them would cripple our ranged attacks by quite a lot. Also, why parry when you have ADS auto defense.
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OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
What does this mean? Does it mean Aobaru's Vigorflame multiplier is bigger than 70 percent for himself? Does it mean his physical stats after buffs are near Phoenix Rising Hunger pre buffs? That's useful information.
Titanomachy Hunger(Very close to Phoenix Rising)
has 55 strength and agility. 51 constitution.
Let's say Aobaru has 50 Str and agi, and 45 constitution after his buffs.
50/1.7 is roughly 29.4 base stats. Unlikely. What is a plausible level of base stats for Post buff Aobaru to have 50 strength?
50/2.1 is a 110 percent buff. That puts Aobaru at 23.8 base stats.
50/2.6 is a 160 percent buff. That puts Aobaru at 19.23 base stats. That's getting closer to what I've got for Aeira. Still not 5 and 6 before her buffs.
50/3.2 is a 220 percent buff. That puts Aobaru at 15.25.
Let's jump ahead some.
50/6.2 is a 520 percent buff. That puts Aobaru at 9.61 base stats.
50/7 is a 600 percent buff. That puts Aobarus base Str and Agi at 7. Within suspension of disbelief and close to Aeira.
If Aobaru's really getting 600 percent out of Vigorflame. Then if you stack that with Companions of the King's 50 percent and raise those stats to 9 with baseline Tide of Glory without Sealing Protocol Level 1.
9*7.5 is 67.5
Unsealed Tide of Glory at just 4 points: 11*7.5 = 82.5
If my analysis is right, Aobaru gets Ludicrous returns from Tide of Glory.
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Probably an unnamed Grace of Lady Vanish? The attributes check out, at least, and the names are kinda similar if you squint right.
If Hunger eventually becomes a Sorcerer I definitely want to pick up that 'Super luck' Grace. Especially if it's boosted by having a few levels of Sealing Protocol it would hopefully provide some Apocryphal mitigation.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
Aobaru could well have a bigger Agility multiplier than us(280 percent to his 600 percent) depending on how you interpret A Burning Spirit and it's mathematical implications.
Duquette7
I am Fire, and I am Rain
Thank you!
Well, that does clear somethings up, still a dang hard choice.
Given our sword roll, we really are in a bind, if we take Make Whole we get a partial fix for our blade but the grace goes on cool down for a year, and the blade might still be to fragile to use in serious combat.
But if we don't take it we're gambling that we can dodge armaments for an entire month, not a bet I'd like to take with the curse.
Its sub optimal to have that major an investment burned for that long, especial when we know we can keep trying to fix it every month, but we just can afford to spend a month without our sword, darn.
[X] Make Whole + Sealing Protocol Level I
Really not sure want I want to spend on, none of these are lighting my fire to be honest, so I'll leave it there for now.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
Aobaru's already likely to get a shroud soon. With Tide of Glory He'd be pulling off some Ludicrous Agility numbers. We've got 206 Post buff agility without COTK. We've also got .2 ISH without Vigorflame and a 280 percent buff.
He could have a 600 percent Vigorflame multiplier with .1 ISH. I'm guessing he's got 24ish percent of our speed right now I have no idea how to math ISH properly.
If he has 82.5 Post buff that brings him up to 40 percent of our non COTK speed.
He could have a 600 percent Vigorflame multiplier with .1 ISH. I'm guessing he's got 24ish percent of our speed right now I have no idea how to math ISH properly.
If he has 82.5 Post buff that brings him up to 40 percent of our non COTK speed.
No we fucking don't.
Can people stop doing dumbass thing? Make Whole build was by far the worst even before the recent changes. It doesn't make any use of Gisena's new Rank(unlike virtually every other build) and it is already heavily obsoleted by Companions giving us access to ressurection already. It's just completely and utterly terrible.
It's fucking trash. And yes, for some fucking reason you people either don't read or don't think so there is an idea that fixing the Sword is relevant concern(spoiler alert: it aint), which is why we wasted entire action we could have used for Hunger sated or loyalty+ on not fixing the Sword, and will now fuck up Gisena's hyper scaling to not fix the sword.
Could we not do this? It's just a stamina limiter when we are already limited by our cooldowns and Praxis casting pool.
Lealope
Not yet invincible
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Do you think the Shattering won't affect our Praxis casting pool?