[X] "I wish for the Seraph's guidance."
[X] "I wish for the Seraph's favor." (2 wishes)
[X] Night's Ambition

I'm in it for the power. While I would dearly enjoy rolling the dice on Aobaru's ascension, I cannot in good conscience refuse the tiger-dojo option.

Skipping Grace is probably insane, and perhaps hypocritical of me as a self-proclaimed coward and safety-fan. But while we're talking to the concept of heroism, I wanna take a principled stance. The biggest extant danger to Hunger is still us, the voters.
 
I think that we can agree that we pay about 50 Arete for Favor. Is it worth it? Well, obviously, you basically get OaF II with it, which does cost 25 Arete(plus mental contamination and picks etc), so we do get one pick in immediate power, and then the other part is long term potential based. I dunno about others, but it does feel good all around, as we get both short term power and long term scailing, plus OaF II is all-encompassing.

Besides, it's funny that we're OaFing the OaFs. OaF is all about cross-stage boosts, and this would give us +1 OaF just as OaF gives us +1 stuff. That's pretty funny, and it does me wonder if there's an Oaf with similar effect. Getting +1(+2 for purpose of war) on Infinite OaF Singularity sounds like something Forebear would do..
 
Any speculation on why Heroic Progression translates directly into OaF? I never really considered the Forebear a classical 'hero', even if I don't believe he was a villain by any means.

Other than that, it seems crazy not to get Grace, but I wouldn't be upset at all to end up with Favor+Advice.
I think that Favor itself blocking a lot of the big baddies is definitely where some amount of those grace procs would be used, and the advice should help alleviate the necessity of Grace as well. An ounce of prevention, etc.
 
[ ] "I wish for the Seraph's grace." - Once per Geas task, Haeliel turns aside any foe that has attained an otherwise-insurmountable edge against Hunger, or any one negative circumstance that would otherwise overcome him.

Coverage not quite as encompassing as a defensive Lesser Wish from the Accursed, but can be used much more frequently in most cases. Good for long-term survival.
My concern with this is that it gets used once in hundreds or thousands of years, while we seem to be facing existential threats from the Apocryphal Curse on a monthly basis. Compared to scaring away 5% of procs, it feels like a drop in the bucket.
Maybe we could mitigate the Geas and change how that all plays out, but from my view this grace is a drop in the bucket and we instead need some manner of paradigm shift.
 
Update 25 of 109. The end is still so far away... The enthusiasm has been drained a bit, other quests I was following have come back, university started again, and I'm about to start a new Vampire the Masquerade campaign (playing a True Brujah in Ancient Rome!) but there's still some will in this body.

Onwards, to the shining tomorrow!

How nice, this time it comes pre-divided in nice quotable chunks!

Well, there's been quite a few builds proposed, and not one that's quite clearly superior in EVERY way.

Honestly, I'd be fine with most of them.

Well, except Form of Rage, because I don't want to gate our power behind a double death, but other than that I like most builds.

My favourites are probably Ring builds (to work for the 27 arete overpick), and philosopher's wreath builds (general power boost + a nice superpower. Seram had some pretty nice Graces after all. For example Reversion gave impossibly good self-healing and limited resurrections, and it might just be good enough to restore our body to its pick. The "removing a buff every 5 seconds" might even help in dealing with Tired and Exhausted. And that's just ONE possible Grace, there was also superintelligence +mind powers, or the x10 time speed (less useful to us as we can't use it to train, but it's still 10 times faster than before), or the "grant more graces" power, that would immediately bring us to 2 graces and 16 hours of time instead of only 8.

Sure, we're not going to get those powers exactly, but they're a good indication of just how good they can be.

...I wonder what the 25 pick that basically makes us the Maiden 2.0 would result it though. Maybe faster growth through coalescences?

well, enough of this, let's go the actual update!

A Far Bastion

Nearing the Temple, there appears to be a small outpost of adventurers, summoned beasts, camp followers and attendant merchants encamped outside one of its side entrances. Potential allies, or an unneeded complication? Verschlengorge is large and like to attract attention if you should approach for this angle, especially as the main entrance is far away on the other side. And you lack any skills of supernal stealth that would allow you to infiltrate undetected. Not intending to further split the party beyond what they've already planned, Hunger decides to...

...ah, but of course.

Why did we think we're special, and that there was only one message in one bottle?

Obviously this is a trap for MULTIPLE parties of adventurers!

Adventurers are attracted to dungeons like dragons are attracted to gold and princesses!
[ ] Hail the Outpost - Though he's vulnerable to provocation via the Tyrant's Doom, the information and supplies the outpost could provide are potentially invaluable, especially if they are not rivals for the bounty of treasure within. Any information about the nature of the challenges awaiting him could prove critical. Surely an edifice of this size would have plenty to loot for everyone? One might even be able to hire mercenaries or acquire items of power. Try to have Gisena do the talking if possible. [+Progress towards next +1 pick]

?% chance of varying benefits
?% chance of battle
?% chance of death (if they are overwhelmingly stronger than you and either inherently hostile or you are forced to fight by the Doom of the Tyrant)

A bit of a mistery box, but should we really fear even talking to people? This is a decent chance to test how the tyrant's doom makes us interact with other people, and it will let us understand just how important and urgent it's going to be to mitigate that curse.

We're in as good status as we've ever been, and if they're going to be a problem, well, It might be better to spring the trap OUTSIDE the temple rather than inside.

Who knows, we might even see a magic system more interesting than the Graces, right before taking philosopher's wreath! (...yeah, pretty unlikely)

Maybe the merchants are just here to buy whatever the adventurers find inside, which could help us by removing the need to carry the loot with us for the rest of the trip. And Gisena would likely be pretty well suited to negotiate with them.

All in all I see this like a possible civilization-lite option, right before entering the temple.

[ ] Investigate the Main Entrance - The greatest defense is anonymity. From Verschlengorge's perch you have spotted these potential foes before they have taken notice of you. The likely moderate benefits of their friendship are not worth the potential risks of their enmity, or any possible association with the 'Astral Lord' looking for Verschlengorge's heads. Who knows whether 'Ber' was the only bounty hunter, or merely the most logistically adroit? He who survives the march of eons does so by clear-headed calculation and gauging of risks. Circle around to the front of the Temple and note to yourself that competition may exist. [+0.5 Arete, spend half a day taking a longer route]

On the other hand they might be part of the trap. It's unlikely I think, but certainly not impossible. Or they might be rivals and will try to pressure us to get exclusive access to the treasures inside. Or they might try to take advantage of our weakened status once we get out (fools they are, as we only get stronger after any challenge!)


[ ] Something Else - You may write in a plan if desired. Perhaps you'd like to ambush the outpost and kill them for power? Seems a bit extreme, but it's probably still safer than fishing...

...ok, that IS a bit extreme.

I think I'm in favour of at least TRY talking to them. It's a decent time to experiment, and they might even be willing to give/sell some informations about the temple and its history.
Last time the winner was [X] Hollow Star with build vote consolidation. What form did Hunger's power take in the aftermath of the slaughter he perpetrated on their journey here? Though it was a brief span of hours, still thousands of monsters fell to his blade, and the more challenging among them had certain attributes...

...I'm a bit disappointed by Gisena losing, but I get it, it's better if Veschle and Letrizia are in a good enough state and capable of defending themselves.

It might even be more important HERE, if the camp turns out to be a trap.
[ ] Immortal Regiment

Safety in numbers.

Echo of the Forebear, Fall of Night, Undying Vanguard
Adds ++++Str, +++Agi, +++++Con, 9 Arete

This build takes Gisena with you. Otherwise she will remain behind to help protect Letrizia and Verschlengorge. Relies on high overall stats and a moderately powerful offense combined with the wide-ranging magic cancellation of Nullity to resolve problems. Gisena's presence may be useful in the event of social encounters, and with Vanguard she is a viable off-tank that heals faster than you do. However, it has little recourse against opponents that truly outmatch you, especially if resistant to Nullity. Not an avenger alone, but now a protector as well, blood-handed guardian whose furious might quells the weak and defies the mighty, living bulwark of will raised against the uncaring world.

not a bad plan, but it doesn't really speak to me. General physical upgrade, def/regen for out allies, control over our falls.. they're nice, but they're not quite as shiny as other picks.

On the other hand if this is a trap having our allies being that much safer would be a massive help.
[ ] Murderer's Panoply

To might alone, is given...

Double Echo of the Forebear, Undying Echo, Fall of Night, A Thousand Cuts
Adds ++++Str, +++Agi, +++++Con, 11 Arete

Though its stat block is identical to the Immortal Regiment, this build relies on a wholly different strategy revolving around the upgraded Fell-Handed Stroke. It can wear down enemies with a rain of cursed wounds, or go for the throat with an immensely powerful finishing move that can devastate foes far greater than yourself. Its high constitution grants it substantial staying power in a prolonged conflict. However, it spends all your Arete and is not as adept at social or mental encounters. On the battlefield, however, it is nothing less than a juggernaut of fell purpose, foe-conquering unstoppable shadow whose strength tears free the thews of titans and plants them as mountains into the earth.

I'm slightly more interested in this build and its overwhelming offensive boost to our capabilities, but it's still not my favourite. Where are the philosopher's and the ring's builds!?
[ ] Bright Vanquisher

Thine final form, for now.

Double Echo of the Forebear, Undying Echo, Form of Rage
Adds ++Str, ++Agi, +++++Con, 9 Arete

A powerful, if circumstantial build that is highly effective against more fearsome single foes, and which has sufficient raw strength and endurance to carry the day against most lesser enemies. High constitution combined with three health bars (one of which has tripled constitution) grant this build unparalleled resilience against compelling opponents, but the costs of the Form of Rage are high. Still, played well it can easily snowball into an unstoppable force, and the extra layer of safety allows for a reckless playstyle while it persists, while providing a useful coordination point for retreat in the aftermath. When the hour of defeat is nigh, the vanquisher erupts forth as a cataclysm of light and fury, wraith of wrath given thundering flesh and set among the enemy to bring their end.

Rage form? no thanks, I'd like something more widely useful.


[ ] The Barest Cut

Cut away all that is unnecessary.

Triple Echo of the Forebear, A Thousand Cuts
Adds +++Str, +++Agi, +++Con, 7 Arete

A parsimonious build that saves Arete while preserving reasonable offensive and defensive power. Lacks the greater durability of the other builds, but makes up for it with its immense potential. By spending on the bare minimum of Arete now, you will be better equipped to acquire a second 7-Arete advancement in the immediate future. The naked blade of purified purpose whose thrust is the dusk and the daybreak, bridging tomorrow with today.

parsimonious indeed. I think we'd be better served by spending more right now.
[ ] The Forbidden

That which passed from memory, unshackled once more.

Opalescence, Iridescence, Echo of the Forebear, Undying Echo, A Thousand Cuts
Adds ++Prot, +Cha, +Str, +Agi, ++++Con, 11 Arete

For those who desire something different, a defensively specialized build that adds Charisma for social encounters. Broad-spectrum esoteric protection from Iridescence offers the highest chance of survival, while the passive effect of a Thousand Cuts opens an avenue to victory against defensively focused foes. While it lacks the sheer physicality of the alternatives, it compensates with raw defensive supremacy that can outlast and wear down one's opponents, or withdraw to fight another day. Supernal in glory, resilient or impervious to nearly every conceivable form of assault, the Forbidden is arisen beyond humanity, a being of ragged steel and starlight, pale echo and fore-shadow of the elder power to come.

well, we could certainly use the charisma if we decide to talk with the adventurers and merchants, and the extra defense will certainly improve our odds of survival.. it's a bit lacking in offense though.

and...that's it?

WHERE IS MY RING BUILD? OR MY GRACES?

YOU MONSTERS! :cry:

...Honestly except for the last one they all look pretty similar to me. Sure, there ARE differences... but I had my heart set on ring or graces... You all toyed with my fragile heart!

well, If I have to choose between these...


Form of rage is a no, and I already said why.

Parsimonious 7 arete plan is a no too, we need to spend if we want to profit from temple and adventurers.

This leaves the "also buff allies" plan, the "overwhelming offense" plan, and the "defense over offense, with a side of cha" plan.

...I think I'll go with the "also buff allies" option. They're growing on me, and as the risks we face grow I'd like them to actually some decent chances of survival. Hopefully we can add other 3 allies to buff later on and the extra slots don't get wasted...
960 words.
 
Update 25 of 109. The end is still so far away... The enthusiasm has been drained a bit, other quests I was following have come back, university started again, and I'm about to start a new Vampire the Masquerade campaign (playing a True Brujah in Ancient Rome!) but there's still some will in this body.

Onwards, to the shining tomorrow!

How nice, this time it comes pre-divided in nice quotable chunks!

Well, there's been quite a few builds proposed, and not one that's quite clearly superior in EVERY way.

Honestly, I'd be fine with most of them.

Well, except Form of Rage, because I don't want to gate our power behind a double death, but other than that I like most builds.

My favourites are probably Ring builds (to work for the 27 arete overpick), and philosopher's wreath builds (general power boost + a nice superpower. Seram had some pretty nice Graces after all. For example Reversion gave impossibly good self-healing and limited resurrections, and it might just be good enough to restore our body to its pick. The "removing a buff every 5 seconds" might even help in dealing with Tired and Exhausted. And that's just ONE possible Grace, there was also superintelligence +mind powers, or the x10 time speed (less useful to us as we can't use it to train, but it's still 10 times faster than before), or the "grant more graces" power, that would immediately bring us to 2 graces and 16 hours of time instead of only 8.

Sure, we're not going to get those powers exactly, but they're a good indication of just how good they can be.

...I wonder what the 25 pick that basically makes us the Maiden 2.0 would result it though. Maybe faster growth through coalescences?

well, enough of this, let's go the actual update!



...ah, but of course.

Why did we think we're special, and that there was only one message in one bottle?

Obviously this is a trap for MULTIPLE parties of adventurers!

Adventurers are attracted to dungeons like dragons are attracted to gold and princesses!


A bit of a mistery box, but should we really fear even talking to people? This is a decent chance to test how the tyrant's doom makes us interact with other people, and it will let us understand just how important and urgent it's going to be to mitigate that curse.

We're in as good status as we've ever been, and if they're going to be a problem, well, It might be better to spring the trap OUTSIDE the temple rather than inside.

Who knows, we might even see a magic system more interesting than the Graces, right before taking philosopher's wreath! (...yeah, pretty unlikely)

Maybe the merchants are just here to buy whatever the adventurers find inside, which could help us by removing the need to carry the loot with us for the rest of the trip. And Gisena would likely be pretty well suited to negotiate with them.

All in all I see this like a possible civilization-lite option, right before entering the temple.



On the other hand they might be part of the trap. It's unlikely I think, but certainly not impossible. Or they might be rivals and will try to pressure us to get exclusive access to the treasures inside. Or they might try to take advantage of our weakened status once we get out (fools they are, as we only get stronger after any challenge!)




...ok, that IS a bit extreme.

I think I'm in favour of at least TRY talking to them. It's a decent time to experiment, and they might even be willing to give/sell some informations about the temple and its history.


...I'm a bit disappointed by Gisena losing, but I get it, it's better if Veschle and Letrizia are in a good enough state and capable of defending themselves.

It might even be more important HERE, if the camp turns out to be a trap.


not a bad plan, but it doesn't really speak to me. General physical upgrade, def/regen for out allies, control over our falls.. they're nice, but they're not quite as shiny as other picks.

On the other hand if this is a trap having our allies being that much safer would be a massive help.


I'm slightly more interested in this build and its overwhelming offensive boost to our capabilities, but it's still not my favourite. Where are the philosopher's and the ring's builds!?


Rage form? no thanks, I'd like something more widely useful.




parsimonious indeed. I think we'd be better served by spending more right now.


well, we could certainly use the charisma if we decide to talk with the adventurers and merchants, and the extra defense will certainly improve our odds of survival.. it's a bit lacking in offense though.

and...that's it?

WHERE IS MY RING BUILD? OR MY GRACES?

YOU MONSTERS! :cry:

...Honestly except for the last one they all look pretty similar to me. Sure, there ARE differences... but I had my heart set on ring or graces... You all toyed with my fragile heart!

well, If I have to choose between these...


Form of rage is a no, and I already said why.

Parsimonious 7 arete plan is a no too, we need to spend if we want to profit from temple and adventurers.

This leaves the "also buff allies" plan, the "overwhelming offense" plan, and the "defense over offense, with a side of cha" plan.

...I think I'll go with the "also buff allies" option. They're growing on me, and as the risks we face grow I'd like them to actually some decent chances of survival. Hopefully we can add other 3 allies to buff later on and the extra slots don't get wasted...
960 words.
There is no shame in joining hands with us at the peak! I have but one funny to leave upon your capitulation, and then you shall be free. (from me at least!)
 
Haeliel had a whole spiel about how power is pointless unless it's turned to virtuous purpose. It seems... thematically inappropriate at least, to turn around and say 'sure, please hook me up with as much immediate power as possible, thanks'. Favor also incentivizes taking on more Forebear mental contamination to get the most value out of it. If we don't climb the tree of increasingly difficult OaF unlocks and invest accordingly, we're leaving value on the table. I don't have a problem with that route (more of one than I did before Haeliel breathed hope back into Hunger's heart, admittedly) but the last time it was up for a vote, I recall accepting influence being contentious.

It would be one thing if we needed Favor to survive the upcoming Apocryphal attack, but Grace provides one intercession per Geas task at half the price. We have other options to power up now in the form of Twilight Cladding and Moonlight Delusion (which deserves more play than it's gotten, Cladding's bonus only kicks in after the Armor expires). The Curse scales swiftly enough to threaten even Hunger, whose growth has been demonstrably absurd. Some of that's the Strain, but ask yourself: in the eons of Indenture tasks to come, is this the only time Hunger's going to get in over his head? The way we've been playing him? Better to have a regular bailout at half the price.

Also, it costs a Panoply slot. We could put a Praxis tech there instead!
 
Haeliel had a whole spiel about how power is pointless unless it's turned to virtuous purpose. It seems... thematically inappropriate at least, to turn around and say 'sure, please hook me up with as much immediate power as possible, thanks'. Favor also incentivizes taking on more Forebear mental contamination to get the most value out of it. If we don't climb the tree of increasingly difficult OaF unlocks and invest accordingly, we're leaving value on the table. I don't have a problem with that route (more of one than I did before Haeliel breathed hope back into Hunger's heart, admittedly) but the last time it was up for a vote, I recall accepting influence being contentious.

It would be one thing if we needed Favor to survive the upcoming Apocryphal attack, but Grace provides one intercession per Geas task at half the price. We have other options to power up now in the form of Twilight Cladding and Moonlight Delusion (which deserves more play than it's gotten, Cladding's bonus only kicks in after the Armor expires). The Curse scales swiftly enough to threaten even Hunger, whose growth has been demonstrably absurd. Some of that's the Strain, but ask yourself: in the eons of Indenture tasks to come, is this the only time Hunger's going to get in over his head? The way we've been playing him? Better to have a regular bailout at half the price.

Also, it costs a Panoply slot. We could put a Praxis tech there instead!
Actually, as far as I understand from this bit
"

Grants +Heroic Progression: Hunger will always benefit from the next stage of [Once and Future], currently [Once and Future] II, without fulfilling the requirements or taking the Mental Contamination from that stage."

It doesn't take mental contamination, and always jumps higher, based of the reading of Currently.

So if we have OaF II, we have OaF III without mental contamination or unlock prerequisites.
 
I don't think that Panoply argument is really relevant. Like, Tears have already shown that there is a real limit to number of Advancements we will be provided anyway, so it's just the question of making the most out of the slot in the terms of pure value, and Favor is hard to be that front.

It's not an irrelevant consideration, of course, but I don't think it really matters in decision making.

As for Favor making us focus on getting more OaFs, well, we were already planning on doing that before, since SitS doubling is just too good. We are just upgrading build we planned to do anyway.
 
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Actually, as far as I understand from this bit
"

Grants +Heroic Progression: Hunger will always benefit from the next stage of [Once and Future], currently [Once and Future] II, without fulfilling the requirements or taking the Mental Contamination from that stage."

It doesn't take mental contamination, and always jumps higher, based of the reading of Currently.

So if we have OaF II, we have OaF III without mental contamination or unlock prerequisites.
That's correct, what I mean is that we'll want to take OaF III because that means access to IV, and so on and so forth. Each OaF Advancement becomes more valuable, making us more likely to tank the associated distortions. Forebear lore's interesting, but it pays to consider what our choices incentivize.
 
Mental contamination can be mitigated with stronger mental stats (which Favour does give via the ISH progression). My main argument against too much mental contamination was because we had been neglecting mental stats. As long as we keep a good pace on acquiring mental stat +s and the illusive -Mental Contamination, I'm not as worried about future OaF purchases.
 
[X] "I wish for the Seraph's guidance."
[X] "I wish for the Seraph's grace."
[X] "I wish for my junior's exaltation."


Well, time to coward it out! Favor is in a pretty comfortable lead at the moment, so time to vote strategically to ensure we get some immediate power out of this no matter what!

If you think Grace is absolutely key for our long-term survival but are still worried about the next Apocryphal proc, take this combo! Remember, Haliel is not our beck and call; there is a very real chance that whenever we save the Wish we might not be able to use it when we really need it! However, empowering Aobaru here has a chance of pulling double duty; both preparing us for the next proc and for the fated nemesis gunning for him. This essentially leaves our Grace protection free to save from any unknown threats that might still lurk about.

Remember people, don't save; invest. Right now we have a chance to solve both an immediate and a future problem with a single action empowering Aobaru, which is much better than potentially having to spend both Grace and the Lesser Wish on foes we already now about; without even taking into account the fact Haliel may not even be available to answer our Wish! Why be greedy and save the wish for some unknown future benefit when we can use it to be in a great position right this moment? We can't revive Catherine if we are dead. As a Cursebearer, we'll prosper as long as we live, but surviving is more than a matter of having enough jail-free cards!

I think there's a high opportunity cost associated with not taking power here, so we should take it. And hey, this will help with both our efforts to make mythic platinum and Aobaru's conquest of the Voyaging Realm; so that's pretty good too. It's amazing value for the option, really.
 
[X] "I wish my reprieve be deferred."
[X] "I wish for the Seraph's grace."
[X] "I wish for the Seraph's guidance."


Remember people, don't save; invest. Right now we have a chance to solve both an immediate and a future problem with a single action empowering Aobaru, which is much better than potentially having to spend both Grace and the Lesser Wish on foes we already now about; without even taking into account the fact Haliel may not even be available to answer our Wish! Why be greedy and save the wish for some unknown future benefit when we can use it to be in a great position right this moment? We can't revive Catherine if we are dead. As a Cursebearer, we'll prosper as long as we live, but surviving is more than a matter of having enough jail-free cards!
Here's the thing about saving. If a bank's interest rate is high enough, or you're expecting a later investment opportunity than the ones you have right now that has a much better ROI even considering the delay, it sometimes makes more sense to not invest in order to make more money.

A wish that we can't accomplish on our own that's relevant to Hunger 10 or 15 updates or now could be worth waaaaaay more than than one used right now. Imagine if we got this wish back when we thought that 7 and 12 Arete advancements were the absolute bees knees that our build should revolve around primarily, with 25 Arete things to be bought painstakingly piecemeal.
Delaying so that what Hunger considers unachievable expands in scope can pay off dividends.
 
You basically have to take either exaltation or favor for short term power. Taking grace/guidance/deferred and planning on burning the defensive wish is a bit yikes.
 
Just as a reminder, the Evening Sky portion of the vote's important too. Cladding's a flat +10 Protection once the Armor of Midnight's eight hours are up and Delusion could let Hunger sucker punch someone. It's also worth asking when the next full moon is. If it's soon, Stars Align is viable, perhaps even a clear first choice. Pillars activates at the end of each lunar month, if I recall correctly last we heard that was ~weeks away? The full moon's in the middle, so the timeline might work.
 
Haeliel had a whole spiel about how power is pointless unless it's turned to virtuous purpose. It seems... thematically inappropriate at least, to turn around and say 'sure, please hook me up with as much immediate power as possible, thanks'. Favor also incentivizes taking on more Forebear mental contamination to get the most value out of it. If we don't climb the tree of increasingly difficult OaF unlocks and invest accordingly, we're leaving value on the table. I don't have a problem with that route (more of one than I did before Haeliel breathed hope back into Hunger's heart, admittedly) but the last time it was up for a vote, I recall accepting influence being contentious.

It would be one thing if we needed Favor to survive the upcoming Apocryphal attack, but Grace provides one intercession per Geas task at half the price. We have other options to power up now in the form of Twilight Cladding and Moonlight Delusion (which deserves more play than it's gotten, Cladding's bonus only kicks in after the Armor expires). The Curse scales swiftly enough to threaten even Hunger, whose growth has been demonstrably absurd. Some of that's the Strain, but ask yourself: in the eons of Indenture tasks to come, is this the only time Hunger's going to get in over his head? The way we've been playing him? Better to have a regular bailout at half the price.

Also, it costs a Panoply slot. We could put a Praxis tech there instead!
I think her advice pairs well with the favor to at least somewhat address these concerns; she should be able to tell us more about what mental contamination would mean and help us see virtuous solutions to our problems we might otherwise miss.

Also, what if the grace does get used up on this coming proc? We will still have a minimum of 50 years to go before we can use it again. I'd rather take my chances on the Favor meaning we aren't overwhelmed.
 
Armor's upgrade is more about that planet-level hax immunity. Issue with that upgrade is that while it's basically what Iridescence wants to be when it grows up, it does nothing what Armor is active. And if we plan on fighting the proc with Armor, it also doesn't do anything against the proc.
 
[X] "I wish for the Seraph's guidance."
[X] "I wish for the Seraph's grace."
[X] "I wish for my junior's exaltation."
[X] Night's Ambition


I really do like favour but this seems to be the only build that lets us get grace and have a degree of immediate safety. Here's hoping our Hero doesn't get done in by a falling piano.
 
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Also, what if the grace does get used up on this coming proc? We will still have a minimum of 50 years to go before we can use it again. I'd rather take my chances on the Favor meaning we aren't overwhelmed.
Hunger survives and we voters move on a little wiser, having learned that no matter how tempting the synergies are, taking Cursebearer's Strain is really not worth it? His position will still have improved relative to where he was pre-Haeliel, we were expecting to tackle the Human Sphere without High Cursebearer handouts before this. Taking Grace, even if this task's charge is immediately expended, is an investment in Hunger's future and a better epilogue for us. And honestly, the character implications of Hunger not Deferring a Wish for the sake of his wife and child are... awful and would tarnish this otherwise extremely uplifting event.
 
[X] "I wish my reprieve be deferred."
[X] "I wish for the Seraph's grace."
[X] "I wish for the Seraph's guidance."



Here's the thing about saving. If a bank's interest rate is high enough, or you're expecting a later investment opportunity than the ones you have right now that has a much better ROI even considering the delay, it sometimes makes more sense to not invest in order to make more money.

A wish that we can't accomplish on our own that's relevant to Hunger 10 or 15 updates or now could be worth waaaaaay more than than one used right now. Imagine if we got this wish back when we thought that 7 and 12 Arete advancements were the absolute bees knees that our build should revolve around primarily, with 25 Arete things to be bought painstakingly piecemeal.
Delaying so that what Hunger considers unachievable expands in scope can pay off dividends.
But again, saving the wish has to be balanced around not only the fact we might not have it available at all times; but the fact that we have been explicitly warned about the severity of the next Apocryphal proc both in and out of character, with Rihaku directly stating getting some for of power immediately being wise. We are not actually saving it if we are put into a position where we have to spend to save ourselves, when we can just get power here and not risk the Wish being unavailable. We simply might not be able to cash out the wish when we need it, and so it is far safer to invest now.
 
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