Since Haeliel's in the lead I may as well ponder Hunger build Options given our current circumstances. In the event we pay rerolls instead of Arete to resolve the Synthesis problem so we don't have to have Hunger become a Metal Ordinalist...
Hunger:
1. Shield(Every little bit helps when we're a reckless nutcase, we've got Deathly Star, Blade WInds, etc. Also 1st Ordinal seeker is unlikely to be immediately relevant at our level)
2. Conjure or Shield(We haven't taking anything from the Imprisoner Tech Tree we could use to get an inventory. Alternatively we use shield to boost our survivability, if we get gud with Edeldross we can make serious tools with it)
3. Elements(Wood)(This is for the nanoreinforcement Foxglove talked about in his POV interlude if it matters at this point. Also for potential Blood and Stranglethorn synergies)
4. Elements(Water)(Blood has water in it, mayhaps this might strengthen our dominion, dispel is redundant given the Outer Shadow)
5. Elements(Metal)(Anti Automata sensor, we get sense metal albeit that's not worth much compared to rank 9+ military instincts))
6. Elements(Sacrifice Metal, Wood'/Water')(More Blood Power!)
7. Elements(Retake Metal, Wood'/Water'/Metal)
8. Elements(Sacrifice Metal, Wood''/Water'')
9. Elements(Retake Metal, Wood''/Water''/Metal)
10. Elements(Sacrifice Metal, Wood'''/Water''')
11. War(Because I wanna know what it does without Vitalism and we may as well get some Esoteric power from Ordinalism)
12. Radiance(Dunno, why not?)
Why did you not take Accelerate? More actions per second compounds with nearly every other aspect of our build.
Elements isn't actually very useful, in my opinion. It needs something like Ordinal 12 investment level in order to reach continental scale, which we already have from Pressure. Granted I haven't read Foxglove's interlude, but I think our build would be a lot stronger if we focus on the buffs and the new niches. On the other hand, a Wood focus might be semi-viable Decimator mitigation. Hm.
Outer Shadow is fills the same niche as Dispel and Wyrd, but not perfectly. Folding it into Terrascape seems quite plausible, though, and Teleport would also be really solid. Legion is clearly better than Lance, although neither are necessarily better than another level of Accelerate. Oathsworn isn't useless, but I kind of want to see what Overwhelm does. (Neither are obviously very useful.) Nightmare is something we'd likely outscale too quickly, and Nexus might be useful for research, but it's a gamble. Valor and Vindicate are the first two that are super interesting to me - Aobaru would probably be better for Valor, but there might be some pretty interesting interactions between the First Sword and Cut Through (which, you should recall, elevates Hunger's sword techniques one level along the Infinite Singularity Husk).
War makes good sense. We don't know what Radiance or Revenant do - maybe the latter is lichform? Or necromancy? Worth finding out first.
<> Subtle. Withdraw the flight scaffold and land a short walk away, beyond the settlement's outer wall, then make their approach on foot. This will give Ruby more control over what information the settlement has on them, and might help make the introduction smoother.
<> Overt. There's room enough in the central square for Ruby to land without colliding with anything other than maybe an unfortunate passerby, which they can take care to avoid. This will give Ruby a stronger position to barter from, since the settlement will have a better idea of what they're capable of, but may make Ruby seem like a threat.
Depends on whether we want this to be short-term shopkeepers or long-term contacts. Hm. I think Ruby needs info, and Overt might get that faster, but less comprehensively. Let's go with Subtle.
<X> Subtle.
Never skip brain day. Safe to assume that Devildoor isn't a shard-power, so Jack's not getting his hacks, and shouldn't be able to predict you very well, so going in with a plan makes sense.
IIRC we haven't really gotten any information on how Gisena's investigations/artificing has been going while we did statecraft and Signs research with Adorie. I think we should at least wait until we see what fruit her initial investigation bears.
The exact text before Intensive Research Started was
[ ] Artifice Gopher - Gisena's been too busy working on foundational Graces to develop any Artifacts capable of assisting in magus extraction, but perhaps if Hunger were to gather materials, that state of affairs could change... there are certainly abundant reagents within the Realm of Myth, and as you currently have no leads it would be a start towards your chiefmost pressing problem, the Chains of Fate!
*Gisena will have time to build an Artifact that offers at least some insight or utility in resolving the magus extraction problem. Exact efficiency presently unknown.
*Unlike Intensive Research, this is guaranteed to at least generate some sort of actionable lead beyond kidnapping Republic personnel, though it may be excessively dangerous to pursue or only yield incomplete information. Such is the power of a Maiden!
*Re-rolls may be used to improve the result, with each successive re-roll generating a mounting effectiveness bonus as Gisena iterates on previous experience. You don't have many, though.
We didn't take Veil of Grandeur to free up Gisena research time either.
The Alternative for addressing the issue was...
[ ] Dungeoneering - Seek out the Foremost lore by the most reliable means: a primary source. Attempts to locate and confront Augustine's mother. Could be suicidally dangerous, especially since you slew her daughter, but maybe Aobaru's presence will stay her hand?
*Consumes two options
*Instead of a timeskip, Hunger & Co will attempt to locate the Shard of the Arcanist for a discussion
*Could be incredibly dumb, or profitable - the Shard surely knows much more of the Foremost protections upon this Realm than almost any other still living.
Edit: @HoratioVonBecker After taking a moment to think about it, I realized we already have Refinement of Quickness and buffed Praxis Endurance from a Temporal Acceleration standpoint and that's the best Rationalization I can come up with. Teleport has Nightmare Flight rendering it partially redundant. Legion I'm leery on without an Imperia style attainment since Number of Bodies, Magical Power, Intelligence pick two is a thing(The Gardens of Enoch: Terrascape Academy Original). I'd be seriously surprised if people took Valor due to concerns about betraying the Forebear's Blade or something but it could be interesting if we got it.
Edit2: The other thought I had was water+wood = Blood? Synergizing with our Ring?
Valor and Vindicate are the first two that are super interesting to me - Aobaru would probably be better for Valor, but there might be some pretty interesting interactions between the First Sword and Cut Through (which, you should recall, elevates Hunger's sword techniques one level along the Infinite Singularity Husk).
Hunger should take Valor, then when we get Elixirdross we can triple-wield the 4Bear's blade + The First Sword + Lucent Thorne. Just like Hunger's Japanese animes!
I guess it depends on exactly how Jack's power processes information... It's basically abusing it's access to other shards to feed its host the other shard's information. Will that help him effectively plan around a non-shard superhero who's working with shardhosts? Or is it just feeding him info on the other hosts? If it's the later he might come up with a plan that handles all your allies perfectly and completely fails to account for the non-host superhero, which would be a pretty catastrophic vulnerability.
<X> Subtle. Withdraw the flight scaffold and land a short walk away, beyond the settlement's outer wall, then make their approach on foot. This will give Ruby more control over what information the settlement has on them, and might help make the introduction smoother.
Gotta get that +Mental Stability.
[H] Range Ahead - I'm comprehensively better-protected than the rest of the team right now, and something was going to kill them. The reactor is a very limited reassurance. Give a perfunctory explanation, and go. Benefits: Fast, possibly safer on multiple fronts, guaranteed target discretion. Costs: Separation from backup.
<A> Subtle. Withdraw the flight scaffold and land a short walk away, beyond the settlement's outer wall, then make their approach on foot. This will give Ruby more control over what information the settlement has on them, and might help make the introduction smoother.
I think that if the goal is to talk to a real person, the best way to accomplish that is by avoiding any threatening moves.
[H] Tactical Update - Figure out what the plan is, who's been coordinating stuff, what my expected role is and how my new capabilities adjust it. Attempt to integrate with the local command structure, possibly by making sure there is one. Confront the holes in my memory fairly directly, for good or ill. Benefits: Obvious. Costs: Time, ???.
I think that running off when the new powers are on a time limit is a big gamble. Better to take advantage of all the tech that previous votes have unlocked
TBH, with how TFS shapes itself for every individual wielder, I wouldn't be surprised if it just performs fusion with 4Blade, or something. Dual wielding is seriously not our aesthetic, especially with how 4blade is that nigh-oversides, huge claymore blade.
Hunger should take Valor, then when we get Elixirdross we can triple-wield the 4Bear's blade + The First Sword + Lucent Thorne. Just like Hunger's Japanese animes!
TBH, with how TFS shapes itself for every individual wielder, I wouldn't be surprised if it just performs fusion with 4Blade, or something. Dual wielding is seriously not our aesthetic, especially with how 4blade is that nigh-oversides, huge claymore blade.
Are people's greed over Blood Sorcery really screw us out of getting Haliel? It's known that a single 25 Arete purchase is usually far more efficient than two 12 Arete purchases. So it also follows that that single expenditure on Haliel will be far, far more efficient than 7 Arete, a 12 Arete and a 25 Arete purchase. You are all passing an irreplaceable opportunity brought upon by a Lesser Wish. There are many ways to solve this monetary problem, most of them don't cost Arete. No need to pass out on the best opportunity we have ever been offered this quest for comparatively petty shit.
You all should at least vote for someone that we won't need to save constantly from their own mistakes; doing that with Hunger is already hard enough! Wolber would be a much safer choice here.
Don't let this new Blood Sorcery shiny distract you from the incredible value Haliel brings. We can make up this shortfall of platinum in other ways; and we might even get the Blood Sorcery advancement in the future. But we won't get another chance to get Haliel unless someone ponies up another Lesser Wish. So she's an absolutely higher priority than the mere inconveniences of this moment, and I'd like you all to vote with this in mind.
I think taking the gamble on Distillation is totally fine; if we fail we can resort to other means. I think even burning Rank here is a better idea than passing up Haliel. Let's just all prioritize the clearly better benefit, okay?
TBH, with how TFS shapes itself for every individual wielder, I wouldn't be surprised if it just performs fusion with 4Blade, or something. Dual wielding is seriously not our aesthetic, especially with how 4blade is that nigh-oversides, huge claymore blade.
I think a large part of the switch is doubt about hitting the 50 Arete mark. I'm about out of words to contribute this week tbh. maybe I'll manage one more reaction tonight, but I'm not sure there'll be any quality modifier worth speaking about
if we don't get an update tomorrow night, then the calculation changes again
[X] The Seraph of Heroism, Haeliel [Basic, 50 Arete]
As far as the "actually surviving the Epilogue" options go, this is by far the best one we ever saw. Nothing is going to mutigate dangers of Hunger's risk-derived issues as an archangel oneee-sama being always ready to bail him out if needed.
The rest of the shinies are not nearly good enough to compensate.
[X] Fifth Sign: As Above [Vast Empyrean]
We are what, at something like +200% Rank gain? 0.375 points of rank is, honestly, pretty incredible at this point. Potential is good, too. We are in a good place for it.
IDK about Synthesis. I do not want to get Blood Sorcery given that we'll probably going to be able to get it for cheap...er later on, once hunger improves his rank and mental stats some more - remember how we had options to repair Versch for arete early on? - and I do not really believe that anyone but Dailin or Haelin are going to manage to keep up with escalating costs of paying for further Sign acquisation in any sort of reasonable manner. Direct line would be a natural solution, but IDK about paying in rank for it.
[X] The Seraph of Heroism, Haeliel [Basic, 50 Arete]
[X] Amplification & Distillation
This Ampli- and Di-stuff sounds cool. I totally don't remember another similarly named power that got sabotaged by Gisena! Nope, not at all! No salt here, sir!
Second time's the charm as they say and I'm in the mood for gambling. It'd kinda be a shame if this gives us access to Elixir again and it turns out we don't have enough Arete to buy it, but there's no way our rolls will turn out that well!
Don't want to flog a dead horse since Brain's pretty much said what I wanted to about Cursebearer sponsor, but yes, Sponsorship is an option brought about through the use of a Lesser Wish so we should go all in when we can because Haeliel will be super great in terms of Arete value. Blood Sorcery is interesting but I honestly don't think it's that great anyway. For 12 Arete, we could get Refinement of Place and Praxis picks for the same cost (if we ever bother to train Praxis again) and that seems to be way better value.
We've also got Fisher King's second half to pay for, so spending for possible acceleration of Sign development seems unwise, particularly when we're already kind of underleveled considering our Sign progress.
Specialist Forms of the 0th Ordinal might also be very much worth investigating. Actually, unlocking Ordinals out of order is something we should really investigate - it might be possible to, say, get Accelerate and then feed it Ordinals 1-4. It's interesting, is what I'm saying.
I think that running off when the new powers are on a time limit is a big gamble. Better to take advantage of all the tech that previous votes have unlocked
Ye, but we've invested in the Train and in our Tinker allies. Racing ahead of them literally leaves those resources behind.
Being overextended when a changer effect wears off is exactly the kind of nonsense that gets heroes killed when they square up against the Nine. The mental boost will help refine the plan as you get closer to the Nine, which will make teamwork considerably easier and more effective. Fighting the Nine with poorly understood abilities seems like a death sentence to me.
Are people's greed over Blood Sorcery really screw us out of getting Haliel? It's know that a single 25 Arete purchase is usually far more efficient than two 12 Arete purchases. So it also follows that that single expenditure on Haliel will be far, far more efficient than 7 Arete, a 12 Arete and a 25 Arete purchase. You are all passing an irreplaceable opportunity brought upon by a Lesser Wish. There are many ways to solve this monetary problem, most of them don't cost Arete. No need to pass out on the best opportunity we have ever been offered this quest for comparatively petty shit.
Indeed, few options offer the Epilogue-enhancing safety of someone like Haeliel, so prioritization is rather important here... perhaps even more important than balancing the needs of the moment is focusing on which elements are critical!
Argument: SAVE Arete with Daylian now so that we can buy both an EFB & DA in the very next update
#415 Words
Suppose that we have exactly 50 Arete right now. Then we are faced with the choice of buying Haeliel or spending the Arete on the next best alternative. What is Haeliel's opportunity cost?
First, Blood Sorcery gives us 2 picks, for the cost of 12 Arete. This guarantees a solution to the currency crisis, while massively accelerating the rate of future Signs unlocks. It would be pretty amazing to have a blank check whenever we try to negotiate with an Astral Being summoned by the 3rd sign.
Second, the total cost of Fisher King is 5 picks, 24 Arete. We paid 3P/12A after killing the Armament Fish. Killing Augustine left us with 2 picks. We spent one pick on Pillars of Creation, and one pick on ???. If the spare pick went towards Fisher King, then we only need 1P/12A to finalize the purchase.
Third, the use of the Ring of Blood to directly manipulate the bloodline ability of the Ruler for the entire Realm of Myth is an amazing opportunity to unlock something we've been waiting on for ages: Ruling Ring. If we buy it all at once, its current cost is 18 Arete. Buying it here, now, before we enter the Realm of Evening, would be a coup that completely changes the nature of the quest. Alternatively, Elixir cost ~18 Arete when we had a chance to buy it (we also got a feat in that blurb, so the total cost of Elixir is <20).
Taking Blood Sorcery (12A), Fisher King (12A,1P), and Ruling Ring (18A,1P) nets us 10 Accursed Favor, ++Progression, ++All Stats, ++Wisdom, +Int, +Wits, +50% +Rank, High level manipulation of bloodline abilities and Surgecrafters, and arbitrary amounts of wealth for Supreme Enclosure negotiations / Empyrean Sign advancements.
All this leaves us with exactly eight (8) Arete left over. Only one committed companion costs eight or fewer Arete: Daylian Erranthus. If you are worried about being able to afford Haeliel, the correct vote is to take Daylian. If we fall short of the 50 Arete needed for Haeliel, then we are likely to also fall short of the 55 needed for Wolber + Ruling Ring + Fisher King + Blood Sorcery.
Vote Daylian and get ++Progression before we travel to the Realm of Evening.
Vote Daylian and get an EFB and a DA in the very next update!
I argued above for what I think is the next best arrangement of picks for 50 Arete, if we don't spend it on Haeliel:
[ ] Daylian Erranthus [Committed, 7 Arete]
[ ] Blood Sorcery [12 Arete]
[ ] Fifth Sign: ???
Blood Sorcery gives 2 picks, which allows the following vote in the next update:
-[ ] Pick 1: Fisher King [1P, 12A]
-[ ] Pick 2: Ruling Ring / Elixir [1P, 18A]
However, I left out two important considerations. First, I didn't actually evaluate the comparison between the SAVE vote and the Haeliel vote. If we could afford Haeliel for sure, which would I suggest we choose? Second, I didn't advocate for any particular Fifth Sign. It turns out that these two points are pretty closely related.
If we can afford to pick both Haeliel and Blood Magic then we should do that, and everybody can vote for whatever Sign they think is coolest. 62 Arete means that carefully cultivating synergy and measuring tradeoffs isn't entirely necessary.
If we can afford to pick Haeliel but not Blood Magic, then voters should be a bit more cautious. Haeliel's sub vote makes it even harder to compare the value directly. There are three options for Fifth Sign and four options for Synthesis. Nobody wants me to list the twelve possible combinations, and I don't have any particular insight about each of the 10 choices.
If we take [ ] Complete Overkill then we burn the Lesser Wish / Defensive True Wish slot to secure money, which is a terrible trade. Even if we are careful with the phrasing ("Please ensure the prosperity of all the lands entrusted to Adorie") the benefits still get spread out between billions of people and huge swaths of territory. Increasing the base level of Surgecrafters again would be neat, but this doesn't seem like the smartest use of a Wish.
We are still playing with fire if we ask Haeliel to empower Aobaru instead. While empowering Aobaru is a smarter use of Haeliel's power because it has long term benefits, it also comes with a small risk that truck-kun will accidentally kill him. In this case, we'd need to immediately burn Haeliel's Wish on mitigation of the Apocryphal Onslaught. Empowering Aobaru risks using 2/3 boons from Haeliel. (I'd love to empower Aobaru, but we shouldn't do it just because of a Synthesis vote.)
Instead, maybe we take [ ] Amplification & Distillation. Haeliel's mundane advice could help with this, because she is intimately familiar with heroism and maybe has information about the underlying principles of Myth. This approach would preserve the option to unlock Ordinalism for one party member later on. If Haeliel has spare time, Hunger could challenge her to some sort of contest to solve the problem fastest and then activate Procrustean Valor to equalize his INT with that of the High Cursebearer. That would make us dramatically more effective at brainstorming solutions!
An alternative tactic would be to harness Haeliel's mere presence in our Amplification efforts. Haeliel's description calls her 'the Vitalizing Flame' and 'All Creation's Oriflamme.' While she does not provide magical support when offering mundane advice, her mere presence might increase the amount of ambient magic or myth that Gisena and Aobaru have available for the distillation process. We could have our first heart to heart in the same room where Gisena is running her experiments on Platinum.
Final tactic: Maybe it's not just Versch's Shroud that is important. If Hunger pilots a fully repaired Verschlengorge then there could be a Praehir benefit to manipulation of Myth or other Foremost energy sources. Hunger wields the Ring of Blood and the Cloak of Sky, those artifacts might be dramatically more powerful inside of a Shroud.
Haeliel has no particular synergy with [ ] Direct Line + [ ] As Above that I can see, but this is at least a comprehensive solution.
I've said before that if we can afford Haeliel, Orm's Lesser Wish + DSB's CYOA deserve nothing less than MAX SPENDING. So if we have 50 Arete by tomorrow night, then I see the strongest tactic as something like the following:
[ ] Haeliel [50 Arete]
-[ ] Lesser Wish / Defensive True Wish
-[ ] Geas of Indenture Panic Button
-[ ] Mundane Advice, including Ordinal tutoring
[ ] Fifth Sign: Procrustean Valor [Noonday Sky]
[ ] Amplification & Distillation
-[ ] Tactic: make the research into a friendly competition with real stakes, and then activate the Fifth Sign to copy mental stats of Gisena / Adorie / Haeliel
-[ ] Tactic: Go to Gisena's lab and get mundane advice from Haeliel about the principles underlying the phenomenon of Myth while Gisena and Aobaru conduct Myth smelting experiments in the same room
-[ ] Tactic: Make Hunger pilot Verschlengorge and see if there's a Praehir effect that lets him manipulate Myth while inside a Shroud.
If we have less than 49 Arete tomorrow, then I'll repeat my earlier vote:
[X] Daylian Erranthus [Committed, 7 Arete]
[X] Blood Sorcery [12 Arete]
[X] Fifth Sign: As Above [Vast Empyrean]
My greed for synergy makes the Sign vote a difficult decision. Overall, I have decided that I care more about the synergy between unlimited wealth and improved leverage for negotiations with Astral Denizens than I do about the Evening Sky mystery box. I might regret this later, but at least I will not have burned 0.1 Rank just to use the Fifth Sign during a crisis, like with Armor of Midnight. (I'm open to selling my vote for this one, I suppose.)
Now, in the event that we reach exactly 49 Arete, we might have to choose between going into Arete debt and getting Haeliel. This is the nightmare scenario. With respect to Orm, I think that I'd have to weigh the gameplay mechanics above my gratitude for the Lesser Wish activation. (This is mostly a bluff to make him burn one of my T3 vote markers and relieve me of the curse of free will.)
Weighing the gameplay mechanics, Haeliel's Wish alone could duplicate a large portion of the advancements on from the SAVE plan, but probably not all of them. Haeliel's Geas panic button is something that we can't get anywhere else, but it's a very very long term asset. Progression means that we can outscale nearly any Geas challenge, especially if the RR + Pillars combination comes fully online in the next couple months. Haeliel's advice gives us unparalleled access to the DEEP LORE of Rihakuverse, as well as Ordinalism and maybe even +Mental Stability.
On the other hand, Ruling Ring or Elixir for 18 Arete, Blood Sorcery for 12, Fisher King for 12, and Daylian for 7 combine to a package that gets me, personally, just about everything that I could want in an update. If our budget is 49 total Arete before the vote closes, then we can add "avoids Arete Debt" to that list. Taking Arete debt right before a boosted Apocryphal proc could force us to use Haeliel's Wish right away, burning about 1/3 of that option's value right out of the gate.
To avoid facing exactly that choice, I've put together this effort post of #1337 words. I'm doing my part to mine the Arete, but I will not feel bad about taking an option that gets me everything I want in the event that we can't afford the optimal pick.
Take Procrustean Valor, and then challenge Gisena (or Haeliel) to a race to find a solution to the Coin Shortage. Activate the 5th Sign and burn HP to copy their INT stat. Pure Profit.
Let Gisena conduct Distillation experiments in the same room as Haeliel while we are receiving our first round of High Cursebearer career training.
If Hunger pilots the fully repaired Verschlengorge, there might be a Praehir boost that would allow precise manipulation of Myth inside the Shroud.
What Haeliel can do, and how what Haeliel does achieves our goals is what determines her actual value to us. Not her Arete cost. Each benefit used limits future benefit options. Let me flowchart this for people given my current understanding.
Also I would like to say that if we need Haeliel to save us, odds are we are doing something wrong. If we're only alive because people are giving Rihaku money what's the point? Just arguing with each other for fun? The entire Forced Induction update didn't have to happen. Assuming I understand things correctly... Haeliel was not the Gift. Every Cursebearer in the update for us to choose from was the gift. It was a gift to make our lives easier/maybe show us something interesting like Imperial Praxis or a High Cursebearer or whatever lore details Lazulite would have given us that collided with my gift of tactics that led to Blood Sorcery after getting filtered through Hungers brain and now things are weird. We needed Blood Sorcery or whatever buffs my tactics provided to Ampification and Distillation too. All the non-synthesis options were terrible.
For What it's worth if Haeliel wins I'm partial to the Advice/Wish/Geas Task Saves arrangement.
These are the boundaries of a Lesser Wish for those who forgot. The question is when will we use it, on what, and how well that synergizes with our goals. Or in the worst case scenario we keep holding off under "TOO AWESOME TO USE"
Lesser Wish - You may wish for most anything within reason, though it may not excessively surpass your current power level or that of the reality in which you currently reside. For example:
"Improve my parameters as if I had trained in a reasonably optimal manner for a human lifetime, without any of the negative side effects thereof."
"I wish for a superpower well-tailored to my current situation." Its general power level would be below that of the King's Scepter.
"I wish this enemy were dead beyond the possibility of recovery" would work on a greater variety of enemies than "I wish for this enemy to become my loyal servant."
Resurrection, time travel, social and political power etc are all within the realm of possibility, though each has limits.
*Once per Geas task, she may turn aside any foe that has attained an otherwise-insurmountable edge against Hunger, or any one negative circumstance that would otherwise overcome him.
*She may divert the attention of the Hidden Ones, allowing Hunger to resurrect one of his previous companions (including Catherine) without complication, should he possess the means.
*She may enormously empower the Hero or Chosen Hero(es) of any given realm, stupendously increasing their rate of growth and ultimate ceiling. There is a small chance she will accidentally kill them instead. Re-rolls cannot defend against this.
*She may utilize one of her Ordinals, once, to perform an effect no greater than that of a Lesser Wish; or, when directly countering the efforts of the Apocryphal Curse, no greater than that of a True Wish or that of her full capacity, whichever is lesser.
*She may give Hunger mundane advice, though without the aid of any of her Ordinals. As she is an Ordinal Purist this would consist of assistance that is entirely non-magical. This includes relationship advice, general life advice, Curse-mitigation advice, and instruction in the Ordinal Spiral for either Hunger or one of his party members. It is recommended to select a party member with high Intelligence and Wits. Haeliel will not always be available for consultation; her duties and challenges are commensurate to her might.
Geas task save: Lower Death By Epilogue Probability if this is one of our three, but if I understand right, the first time we get a geas save, we're down to two of the remaining options though. (Empowering Aobaru, a Wish, or Mundane Advice/Ordinalism Tutoring, pick two) Or reframing it, if you want higher epilogue survival odds, then given that the Running interference benefit leads to the Michael Steele problem, Haeliel is worth a lesser wish that's true if used against the Apocryphal curse, Chosen One Empowerment Privileges, or Mundane Advice/Ordinalism Training Privileges, pick two.
After 1st Geas Save(WHENEVER THAT IS) -> 1st invocation of Chosen One Empowerment Privileges: We're down to Advice/Ordinalism Tutoring Privileges or a wish
After 1st Geas Save(WHENEVER THAT IS) -> 1 Wish: We're down to Advice/Ordinalism Tutoring privileges or Chosen One Empowerment Privileges
After 1st Geas Save(WHENEVER THAT IS) -> Mundane Advice/Ordinalism Tutoring Privileges 1st invocation: Pick a Wish or Chosen one Empowerment Privileges
Running interference while we resurrect Catherine: Poisoned Chalice, Worthless, courts the Michael Steele problem as I previously explained. Will not be considered in analysis of other options.
Empower the Chosen One: Can solve our Synthesis problem if we're willing to risk Aobaru's Life via Complete Overkill. If it works we get an uberpowerful ally but we haven't invested in his social link and the Terminator may be a moot point. If it doesn't we burn all her bennies on surviving apocryphal onslaught. We maintain this benefit if we meet any other chosen ones we want her to do this for assuming I understand correctly.
1st invocation of Chosen One Empowerment Privileges -> 1st Invocation of Mundane Advice and/or Ordinalism training Privileges: The First time She saves us, our wish is lost
1st invocation of Chosen One Empowerment Privileges -> 1 Wish: The first time she saves us, our advice and ordinalism tutoring privileges are lost
1st invocation of Chosen One Empowerment Privileges -> We need a Geas Save before we use one of the others: Pick between a wish or mundane advice/ordinalism training privileges
1 Lesser Wish(True level if fighting an Apocrypha proc and she can provide that level of benefit): Can be used to solve our money problem or Voygaging realm extraction problem but that seems like an exceptionally petty use of a wish. The question is will we fall prey to "TOO AWESOME TO USE YET" here or will we figure out something well shaped to achieve our goals.
1 Wish -> 1st invocation of Chosen One Empowerment Privileges : You can't ask her for advice or Ordinalism training or you lose your Geas Save Privileges
1 Wish -> 1st Invocation of Mundane Advice and/or Ordinalism training Privileges : If you empower a chosen one you lose your geas save Privileges
1 Wish -> Geas Save needed before you do anything else: Pick between Chosen One Empowerment Privileges or mundane advice/ordinalism training privileges
Mundane Advice/Ordinalism Training: I can't see any immediate benefit here to our goals besides Mental Stability unless somebody has an Ordinalism build they want to remind me about(I can't conceive it until 9th Ordinal with Nightmare's dimensional tunneling power, don't think Teleport has enough metaphysical oomph at 7th Ordinal)? The first time we ask her for advice or Ordinalism training, we're down to two bennies. Though we can keep asking her for advice as the Uriel figure with somewhat more latitude she is when she's able to show up.
1st Invocation of Mundane Advice and/or Ordinalism training Privileges -> 1st invocation of Chosen One Empowerment Privileges: Use your wish before you need a Geas save if you're ever going to use it.
1st Invocation of Mundane Advice and/or Ordinalism training Privileges -> 1 Wish: You better Empower Aobaru before you need a Geas Save if you want to.
1st Invocation of Mundane Advice and/or Ordinalism training Privileges -> We need a Geas task save before we ask her for help again: Empower Aobaru or make a wish, pick one
When?
Like, seriously, I don't know what that is. And I would happily pay all the Arete I have generated across the whole entire quest-run to get Hunger his wife back.
You guys did already pick up Deathly Star... while the bonus from Armor of Midnight is purely defensive, combined with your other choices it offers both high-tier offense and defense! Rank burn is rough but it's certainly better than dying in any given situation, and the effect can also be used proactively to turn Hunger into a juggernaut before setting out on an offensive campaign! I wouldn't underestimate the benefits of getting the total package - mobility, utility, offense and defense from Evening Sky Signs and getting a free half-Sign's worth of value out of it as well. Even a spell half as powerful or useful as Supreme Enclosure could yield noticeable improvements to power or versatility.
On the other hand, with Maiden Gisena's True Quintessence access and the upcoming 3-week Pillars proc, there is something to be said for maximizing survival value in the short term, as Hunger & Co will have plenty of access to utility effect generation in the longer term...
Dangit I bet it's holy/necromantic. That's so obvious in retrospect.
*jawdrop*
What. That is the best thing you are talking about.
When?
Like, seriously, I don't know what that is. And I would happily pay all the Arete I have generated across the whole entire quest-run to get Hunger his wife back.
You haven't read Cpl Facehuggers Luv and Hate quest then on SB(A Supreme Commander/Muv Luv Alternative xover quest). Hungers got a surprising amount of overlap with Michael Steele when you think about the OP for this quest. The defeat of the Tyrant and the Shadow of his former self who didn't think he deserved the adulation has a lot of echoes of Steele getting a parade in his honor after Black Sun that his superiors practically had to force him to participate in.
Basically, Steele got his dead Aeon ACU Commander girlfriend/comrade in arms from his universe(Alina) resurrected through a weird fluke of psychic shenanigans after he entered a relationship with an extremely skilled scientist(Yuuko) in the Muv Luv setting.
His ex and his current relationship are both strategic assets of immense value for the war against the BETA so handling the emotional mess badly would lead potentially to uncountable deaths from suboptimal war setups.
It caused a lot of IC and OOC misery for a while.
At the choose vote, there was some foreshadowing with how aeon society worked and remarks from Sumika, which combined with it being a VN setting and Facehugger deciding close enough on the write in led to the three of them going Polyamorous.
Hunger is Steele and is basically in a relationship with Gisena who is Yuuko. Catherine is Alina in this metaphor. And we can't count on the problem being solved the way Steele/Yuuko/Alina did it.
Getting your dead comrade in arms GF resurrected when you are in another relationship is the Michael Steele problem.
