Lealope
Not yet invincible
- Pronouns
- She/Her
is this... the natural instinct of a hero!?
Kinda want to bully him now, just a little bit.
A Simple Transaction I
- Thread starter Rihaku
- Start date
- Original
is this... the natural instinct of a hero!?
Kinda want to bully him now, just a little bit.
ImperatorV
The Laughing One
- Location
- The Voyaging Realm
So, having slept, my sanity has apparently returned, and I'm thinking Absorb is maybe too risky. But I'm having trouble deciding what to switch to, because the other options seem super risky as well! I'm really wishing Diplomacy had won now, I'm not sure we have what it takes to beat this girl, and man would losing to her suck after we made fun of the Royalists so much. Rihaku should have said "Don't underestimate Augustine" at some point, then we would have paid attention.
Anyway, for now I'm doing this.
[X] Slow and Methodical
Cut Through's strategy is explicitly called out as risky. Furthermore, bulling straight through Augustine's defenses assuming we can overcome everything seems like the best way for her to hit us with something that evens the odds. I should remind everyone what "LOL just pierce through" got Vanrier, and Hunger was explicitly comparing his position right now to Vanrier's in that fight.
Quick but Methodical leaves Hunger exhausted right before the final fight. Slow but Methodical has one downside, the potential to be hit by a certain category of spells that may exist. That's a risk I dislike, but I dislike it less then being Exhausted for the final confrontation or two different flavors of charging straight into a trap.
I should have fought for Diplomacy instead of caving, argh.
Anyway, for now I'm doing this.
[X] Slow and Methodical
Cut Through's strategy is explicitly called out as risky. Furthermore, bulling straight through Augustine's defenses assuming we can overcome everything seems like the best way for her to hit us with something that evens the odds. I should remind everyone what "LOL just pierce through" got Vanrier, and Hunger was explicitly comparing his position right now to Vanrier's in that fight.
Quick but Methodical leaves Hunger exhausted right before the final fight. Slow but Methodical has one downside, the potential to be hit by a certain category of spells that may exist. That's a risk I dislike, but I dislike it less then being Exhausted for the final confrontation or two different flavors of charging straight into a trap.
I should have fought for Diplomacy instead of caving, argh.
[X] Cut Through
Rihaku blurb/Rihaku: This option is blatantly bait, costs a lot of Arete, and is not guaranteed to succeed! Death chance is not mentioned but this is basically a dangerous option. It isn't even a thematically appropriate tower for the Evening Sky to absorb! (Earth vs Sky) and all that Jazz.
The Thread: Well, you didn't Tell Me The Odds soooooooo BAIT HOOOOOOOOOOO!
Note: Is Joke, Yo Tengo No Salt
lol yeah school is kicking my butt rn n then I saw this happening
big sad peace didn't win
But I'm not gonna bet on getting peace thru Trap Springing.
Anyways back to suffering I go, good luck everybody lol
Rihaku blurb/Rihaku: This option is blatantly bait, costs a lot of Arete, and is not guaranteed to succeed! Death chance is not mentioned but this is basically a dangerous option. It isn't even a thematically appropriate tower for the Evening Sky to absorb! (Earth vs Sky) and all that Jazz.
The Thread: Well, you didn't Tell Me The Odds soooooooo BAIT HOOOOOOOOOOO!
Note: Is Joke, Yo Tengo No Salt
lol yeah school is kicking my butt rn n then I saw this happening
big sad peace didn't win
But I'm not gonna bet on getting peace thru Trap Springing.
Anyways back to suffering I go, good luck everybody lol
It only costs Arete if we succeed, and value we get for it is super high too.
Of course, the actual downside is that Augustine gets FREE super attack of Hunger. That being worth tanking for Temple tier reward, well, that's up to voter. Well, that and going full Gilgamesh with our characterization:
Of course, the actual downside is that Augustine gets FREE super attack of Hunger. That being worth tanking for Temple tier reward, well, that's up to voter. Well, that and going full Gilgamesh with our characterization:
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
While I must admit there is a certain terrible glory to the idea of bypassing many of our enemy's prepared traps and defenses by eating the building she's standing in...
I am pretty sure that as a card-carrying and possibly only member of Team SMRT, I cannot endorse a course of action that involves explicitly walking into an option the narration repeatedly highlights as being A Trap.
Trying to speedblitz our opponent, while also having the potential to be A Trap, is at least the broad general category of Trap we're prepared for. If Hunger falls to that, I will be able to say to myself, "he died as he lived," not "he died forgetting the Evil Overlord List."
I am pretty sure that as a card-carrying and possibly only member of Team SMRT, I cannot endorse a course of action that involves explicitly walking into an option the narration repeatedly highlights as being A Trap.
Trying to speedblitz our opponent, while also having the potential to be A Trap, is at least the broad general category of Trap we're prepared for. If Hunger falls to that, I will be able to say to myself, "he died as he lived," not "he died forgetting the Evil Overlord List."
HoratioVonBecker
Imperfectly Aligned
I appear to have achieved the rare Stage of Index Attainment. Perhaps it's an Even Further Beyond form of Omake Seeking?
Anyway, tactics and omake power when I have time. And if anyone wants to hit me up for editing/consultation regarding their fanworks, feel free.
[X] Absorb the Tower of Earth
I don't think this is entirely a trap, actually - my first impression was that it was literally the most comprehensive counter she could think of against the Opalescent Tower. Remember, we know from her Interlude that she doesn't know where all our recent power came from - and speculates that it was all from absorbing the Opalescent, or from a mighty quest.
Granted, she is clever enough to think "if this isn't a direct enough counter to his powers, trapping this against him absorbing this too is also a good backup plan".
I wonder, though, if the main trap is that it's fundamentally rooted in the earth, and eating it might take as much time as absorbing - or at least, assuming dominion of - all the earth in the Realm of Myth. Presumably Hunger will need to stay connected to it to eat it? Even if she's not entirely right, and Hunger can detach his Cloak long enough to let it finish eating while he finishes Augustine, that would presumably be quite a lot of Protection we were sacrificing.
That said, we have shortcuts. We've got Adorie Miriellan vouching our legitimacy, and we have Aobaru, Chosen of the Voyaging Realm, to grant us this realm's loyalty.
He isn't with us right now, but it's a strategy. Also, update for my subquest incoming as soon as I have a cape name I'm happy with.
Anyway, tactics and omake power when I have time. And if anyone wants to hit me up for editing/consultation regarding their fanworks, feel free.
That sounds like a job for hubris!
Who was that?
[X] Absorb the Tower of Earth
I don't think this is entirely a trap, actually - my first impression was that it was literally the most comprehensive counter she could think of against the Opalescent Tower. Remember, we know from her Interlude that she doesn't know where all our recent power came from - and speculates that it was all from absorbing the Opalescent, or from a mighty quest.
Granted, she is clever enough to think "if this isn't a direct enough counter to his powers, trapping this against him absorbing this too is also a good backup plan".
I wonder, though, if the main trap is that it's fundamentally rooted in the earth, and eating it might take as much time as absorbing - or at least, assuming dominion of - all the earth in the Realm of Myth. Presumably Hunger will need to stay connected to it to eat it? Even if she's not entirely right, and Hunger can detach his Cloak long enough to let it finish eating while he finishes Augustine, that would presumably be quite a lot of Protection we were sacrificing.
That said, we have shortcuts. We've got Adorie Miriellan vouching our legitimacy, and we have Aobaru, Chosen of the Voyaging Realm, to grant us this realm's loyalty.
He isn't with us right now, but it's a strategy. Also, update for my subquest incoming as soon as I have a cape name I'm happy with.
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Alright, let me go over over Absorption:
Now, of course, this is a trap. Only telling blow Augustine made was abducting Verse, which happened after we consumed Opalescent Tower, so trying to replicate that event is only natural. But for trap to work she needs a bait, and man is this bait attractive. First, let us consider what we can get:
Of course, to get there, we need to tank trap first. And given that this is an effect that we will willingly trigger, add part of her power to our mantle, on top of LPs already shown ability to fuck with us if we take something of hers, we can expect something extra nasty. Lets consider possible scenarios:
Still, there are ways to improve our chances. We can get Adoria's opinion of what we can expect, we could have Gisena blast away with Sea of Nullity moments before we finish consuming Tower, use Quickening to speedrun Absorption and so on.
And there's the actual question - is it worth it.? The value is great, insane even. So how hard can Augustine hit us? How hard would she need to hit us to make that 3p/7a not worth it?
Now, of course, this is a trap. Only telling blow Augustine made was abducting Verse, which happened after we consumed Opalescent Tower, so trying to replicate that event is only natural. But for trap to work she needs a bait, and man is this bait attractive. First, let us consider what we can get:
- Tripled Protection offered by Cloak: This is about 50 Protection out of the gate, and then vastly stronger Protection-related upgrades from our Cloak down the road. Pretty crazy amount of raw value which is only hampered by the fact that we have yet to translate Protection into additional effects(i.e. Iridescence) while Protection itself has somewhat minimal value with ADS around. The real downside of this option is that other two are vastly more shiny, however. Still, one thing we get with this is immediate effect - while Signs generally take some time to set up, this can be used right away, meaning we can use it against Augustine
- Hastened Signs: All of you should know this upgrade from Armament Fish vote. We gain two additional Signs, massively increasing our general powerlevel. Not useful in immediate situation, but more power and utility never hurts. More importantly, however, we know exact value of this option - Hastened Signs is not only a rare Advancement, but one that costs us 3 picks and 19 Arete! That means that general amount of value we get by taking Absorb is whopping 3 picks and 7 Arete. That's entire Dreadnought's Bearing worth of value, pretty nuts. This is amount of value that is roughly comparable to getting Azure Ring, and we went through Temple for that
- Bring to Heel: Alright, why is Supreme Enclosure actually good? The true answer is because it allows us to translate our general Rank directly into power and utility, as power of summons is relevant to our Rank. Bring to Heel "strongly" upgrades this ability, likely by allowing us to command summons without having to trade with them, which works just amazingly well with our build. Between the three, this is somewhat of a no-brainier
Of course, to get there, we need to tank trap first. And given that this is an effect that we will willingly trigger, add part of her power to our mantle, on top of LPs already shown ability to fuck with us if we take something of hers, we can expect something extra nasty. Lets consider possible scenarios:
- Attacking Hunger himself: Trying to steal our Mantle in return, trying to ape a piece of our Progression, pushing us into the future so we can't fight her, sealing our soul in a jar, using newly consumed Tower as vector of an attack that circumvents our defenses, possessing us etc. This option would have LP use Tower as means of defeating Hunger directly, which is something she'd struggle with otherwise. However, this is perhaps the most favorable outcome for us, as we posses great deal of defenses such as Silver and Accursed's protections that would let us withstand such assault
- Attacking our allies: When you are fighting powerful boss, you go after his weak points, and Hunger's weak ponts are people other than him. This is something Augustine already did, so we can expect her to abduct more of our people, their powers, consume Verse or even summon evil version of Catherine to fight us. This one is mostly annoying with somewhat minimal chances of killing us, although triggering Apo Onslaught would be unfortunate
- Empowering herself: We eat Tower, she eats Walls of Myth, or she elevates her Rank to our level or whatever. Not something I find likely, but at least we'd get more picks, so there's that
- Advance her goals: Rather than trying to actually fight Hunger, have us accomplish her ultimate goal of killing her mother. Teleport us to Shard or something
Still, there are ways to improve our chances. We can get Adoria's opinion of what we can expect, we could have Gisena blast away with Sea of Nullity moments before we finish consuming Tower, use Quickening to speedrun Absorption and so on.
And there's the actual question - is it worth it.? The value is great, insane even. So how hard can Augustine hit us? How hard would she need to hit us to make that 3p/7a not worth it?
- Location
- Poland
- Pronouns
- He/Him
My impressions so far:
This is Tower voters right now, climbing with their pure Arete to grab that bait.
This is Cut Through voters, breaking into Augustine's camp to play some sad tunes for her funeral.
Come back and think: which bear would Forebear be right now?
Come back and think: which bear would Forebear be right now?
[X] Cut Through
Enohthree
Hypersane
An important consideration is the fact that our Cloak does not like the Tower of Earth at all.
I trust its mythical based instincts, and besides why would you want to make our cloak buddy eat dirt anyway?
HoratioVonBecker
Imperfectly Aligned
I really like the idea of using Edeldross as a filter for that, actually. Make the two of them reconcile their differences, with the Element of Redemption and Renewal of Cycles. The Cycle of Earth And Heaven sounds like an important one to renew, no?
HoratioVonBecker
Imperfectly Aligned
Also:
Wait. Dang. I just thought of a worst-case scenario for Cut Through.
Augustine is so powerful because her father's bloodline resists existential diminishment. Why the heck are we relying on the Sea of Nullity being able to affect her more than Hunger!?
Anyway, I'm now a lot more leery of Cut Through in particular - @Orm Embar, you might want to get everyone consolidated around... anything else... but also a lot more hopeful about eating the Tower being a reasonably sane move in the circumstances.
I would peg this semi-arbitrarily at one-and-three-quarter rerolls. Slice Fate was 1p7a, but it doesn't seem to be coming back soon. I can see this update involving about three important rolls, if I've understood the (rather undocumented) system correctly - one roll for the absorption, one roll for the prepared counterattack, and one for Augustine's current action - but that's only one more roll than my current estimate of the other plans.
Wait. Dang. I just thought of a worst-case scenario for Cut Through.
Augustine is so powerful because her father's bloodline resists existential diminishment. Why the heck are we relying on the Sea of Nullity being able to affect her more than Hunger!?
Anyway, I'm now a lot more leery of Cut Through in particular - @Orm Embar, you might want to get everyone consolidated around... anything else... but also a lot more hopeful about eating the Tower being a reasonably sane move in the circumstances.
Enohthree
Hypersane
With the earlier talk about how Silver doesn't defend against self imposed penalties, I think it's worth considering things like 'buffs' that have downsides she's planned for in advance and is prepared to thoroughly exploit. Imagine a buff to, say, Strength that we really don't need while opening up serious Agility or Intelligence holes in our build a la unplanned for and worse Stranglethorn because of the Earth themeing.
Horatio mentioned reroll burnings but as we saw with Runes and Chains the worst threats can come in forms that, since they're technically not killing us, don't trigger some specific protections.
[X] Absorb the Tower of Earth
Good thing Hunger excels at abduction.
Erring from his daily routine was what got him.
Enohthree
Hypersane
In the end he was still capable of beating Hunger, a daily routine following version of himself would have failed to have pierced through the Ring regardless.
Resonant
Procrastinator Supreme
Y'know, I've been thinking about future Arete expenditure and thought of a wild idea to optimize generation. Albeit it's somewhat gaming the system through P2W but... well, the thread's reader base is already invested as it is.
Anyways, the idea: current or potential Patrons pool their resources to buy the highest Patreon tier for +100% RihakuBux per month, and more people have the opportunity to chip in. The current Patron amount already accounts for the amount needed to reach that tier.
Not sure how that'd even be coordinated, but it seemed like a good idea that popped in my head. Just throwing it out here.
Anyways, the idea: current or potential Patrons pool their resources to buy the highest Patreon tier for +100% RihakuBux per month, and more people have the opportunity to chip in. The current Patron amount already accounts for the amount needed to reach that tier.
Not sure how that'd even be coordinated, but it seemed like a good idea that popped in my head. Just throwing it out here.
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HoratioVonBecker
Imperfectly Aligned
Still soliciting cape names for my SI character. He's getting plasma-manipulation arms as of this update, if it helps.
(Presently, the name to beat is Heckaton. It's a silly pun, even if it isn't terribly thematic.)
(Presently, the name to beat is Heckaton. It's a silly pun, even if it isn't terribly thematic.)
- Location
- Earth
[X] Quick but Methodical
Let's see if we can't try to swing things over. I'll switch back to Cut Through later depending on how things go.
Let's see if we can't try to swing things over. I'll switch back to Cut Through later depending on how things go.
Talace
It must be raining somewhere else!
Asura, maybe? Halo, to stick with Rihaku's Mega-Armed Men shtick.
Projectile
Thinking of Rabbits
- Location
- USA
