A Simple Transaction I

Strange9 · Jul 16, 2020

Byzantine said:
It's been made pretty clear that that vote combination is a bad idea.

Also the kill team is Republic so you are very confused.

I mean, it's certainly risky + potentially screws over the Sovereignty, but that doesn't necessarily make it a bad idea! All of these options involve risk, many of them directly to Hunger's person, rather than a random civilization.

The fact that the kill team is Republic just makes the plan even more convenient! We don't have to deal with their hang-ups about the Empire.

runeblue360 said:
We're not going to be able to persuade the Kill Team to fight the Rotbeast though, at the first sign of shit, their first priority is going to be to extract their cargo by whatever means necessary. It's significantly more likely that they'll use it against us, leveraging the danger it represents to get us to leave, assuming they don't just take a bunch of hostages and force the issue. COnsidering the blurbs, the likely chain of events is going to be something like us procing Doom of the Tyrant against the Kill-Team -> the fight brings in a bunch of highschoolers who get taken hostage -> the Rotbeast attacks.

If that's the case, then we're obliged to get them to stay by giving them the right set of incentives! That's part of what the 'pledge allegiance to the Republic' bit is for. We could probably also use Letrizia's status as an Empire military officer to play to their loyalty.

BrainInAJar said:
So no, this is the most immediately dangerous combination. Only vote for it if you don't particularly care about what we lose.

The quote doesn't say that! The quote just says that it 'could' be very psychologically risky. Where are you getting the implication that it's physically riskier to our companions than any of the other options?

Talace · Jul 16, 2020

[X] One
[X] Prestige Classing

oh well

Duquette7 · Jul 16, 2020

[X] One
[X] Prestige Classing

DkArthas · Jul 16, 2020

I would honestly prefer dealing with the Apocryphal proc fast, so Republic kill team + One sounds like an good combo as well. If we free the imprisoned magus, we might get another strong companion.

BrainInAJar · Jul 16, 2020

Strange9 said:
The quote doesn't say that! The quote just says that it 'could' be very psychologically risky. Where are you getting the implication that it's physically riskier to our companions than any of the other options?

Rihaku said:
You guys have gotten awful confident about dealing with the Kill-Team, but perhaps you should wait until you see the actual state of their augs and equipment before making judgements! Especially now that they're healed, how do you know they don't massively outstat you in all the ways that matter? And that's to say nothing of their potential competence, group / kiting tactics, hostage-taking, going to ground and harassing you with guerilla warfare, killing your companions, etc. You're going up against one of the most elite special ops forces in the galaxy, writing them off as a trivial combat challenge is a recipe for annihilation.

Even someone like Gondar was extremely dangerous to our companions due to his tactics; and these guys are significantly more powerful and are the extremely highly trained spec-ops operatives of an interstellar civ. They rae far from harmless and unlike the Rotbeast, actually have a reason to target our companions. they will be in extreme danger should diplomacy fail; and with the Rotbeast making the Sovereignty desperate and these guys just wanting to leave, it will fail.

Rihaku · Jul 16, 2020

Unelemental said:
Yes, it's too bad we can't buy all the options. Apocrypha, why are you slacking on the job?!

Too much bubble gum, perhaps!

BrainInAJar · Jul 16, 2020

Seriously, we want to kill Ber and get Silver+ADS anyway. Why not pick the option compels us to the things we were already going to do? It's much simpler this way.

Strange9 · Jul 16, 2020

BrainInAJar said:
Even someone like Gondar was extremely dangerous to our companions due to his tactics; and these guys are significantly more powerful and are the extremely highly trained spec-ops operatives of an interstellar civ. They rae far from harmless and unlike the Rotbeast, actually have a reason to target our companions. they will be in extreme danger should diplomacy fail; and with the Rotbeast making the Sovereignty desperate and these guys just wanting to leave, it will fail.

I mean sure, if we end up in combat with them: but the scenario you outlined like 5 posts ago is, "[...] they just run away?" (given that the Rotbeast attacks). If that's the case, we still end up dealing with only 1 90% strength Apocryphal proc.

Edit (for the sake of not inflating post counts too much):

BrainInAJar said:
Seriously, we want to kill Ber and get Silver+ADS anyway. Why not pick the option compels us to the things we were already going to do? It's much simpler this way.

I'd like to think the thread has the discipline, but I'm really not sure we do. We just set ourselves up perfectly for Silver and then immediately pivoted towards the two worst Arete options last update. Moreover, I suspect this extra time gives the Apocryphal the chance to continue scheming in the background.

BrainInAJar · Jul 16, 2020

The Sovereignty will try to stop them due to greed and desperation, and neither will care about civilian lives, nor the lives of the Surgecrafters. That's why the warning about the psychological damage. If the Soverenghty and the Kill-team wouldn't get into conflict, Apocryphal wouldn't have involved them.

So it's fine if you are okay with just watching on as innocents die...

Sharkey_smt · Jul 16, 2020

runeblue360 said:
Sure. Silver -> Trinity -> ADS/OaF, depending on our Arete and the circumstances at the time. Bearic gets himself put directly into the toilet.

Prospalz said:
Silver of The Evening+All Defeating Stance costs 32 Arete and 1 pick.

I...don`t think we can make it if there is a timeskip. We need 28 more Arete and the thread will always attempt to jump on the next shiny thing(TG was good, don`t get me wrong). Rihaku will continue to throw some cool 7 Arete picks or some shitty MORAL GANG choice that cost us Arete.

We can possibly get Silver this weekend with some good omake storms but after that, denying ADS will be a hill many will try to die on. I prefer to get the Rotbeast out of the way and with a bit of luck get the Stranglethorn DA. I have 7k worth of reactions stashed so if a true omake storm starts during the weekend I will contribute to it.

I admit that it will be funny to see Ber getting his teeth kicked in even after prestiging but as Rihaku said in the blurb:

Rihaku said:
*With how fast 'Lord Hunger' grows, it might be possible for him to still outscale Ber after all this, if he steers his build optimally...
*Pfhaha. Like that's going to happen.

Optimal build path and enough Arete generation - lul.

Strange9 · Jul 16, 2020

Yeah, on reflection, I'll take a three or four pick fight if we have Gisena (especially if she has time to make something with Artifice) and Versch (rank 7! So much higher than us...) backing us up. They're both rather scary in their own rights, and this gets the Apocryphal proc out of the way immediately. Even better, if we do this after we take care of Mizuku, the fight will probably be less challenging (esp. if we pick up something like Honing!).
[X] One
[X] Keepin' it Simple

Dark Lord Bob · Jul 16, 2020

Intead of one full strength Ber, can't we instead deal with an 80% Rotbeast, power up by defeating it, and then deal with a 90% Ber?

I'm confident we can defeat a debuffed Rotbeast, and if we have a reasonable chance of defeating 100% Ber, then we should be well and truly set against a 90% Ber after we've been buffed by an encounter.

Sharkey_smt · Jul 16, 2020

Byzantine said:
And Ber will screw us unless the thread gets it together.

The last six words should be enough red lights for everybody to stay the fuck away from this option.

BrainInAJar · Jul 16, 2020

Strange9 said:
Yeah, on reflection, I'll take a three or four pick fight if we have Gisena (especially if she has time to make something with Artifice) and Versch (rank 7! So much higher than us...) backing us up. They're both rather scary in their own rights, and this gets the Apocryphal proc out of the way immediately. Even better, if we do this after we take care of Mizuku, the fight will probably be less challenging (esp. if we pick up something like Honing!).
[X] One
[X] Keepin' it Simple

Dark Lord Bob said:
Intead of one full strength Ber, can't we instead deal with an 80% Rotbeast, power up by defeating it, and then deal with a 90% Ber?

I'm confident we can defeat a debuffed Rotbeast, and if we have a reasonable chance of defeating 100% Ber, then we should be well and truly set against a 90% Ber after we've been buffed by an encounter.

Rihaku said:
*Work down that ablative population, baby!
*This'll totally screw up his Rank-gaining ways...

The problem with Rotbeast is that it might screw-up our Rank-efforts even if we win. Given we just spent 7 Arete to enhance that, it stings a bit. If we can get some assurance that we can preserve our Rank gain no matter what be much more inclined towards it, even with combining it with Ber. Bu that uncertainty keeps me at bay and makes me vote for just Ber now.

Strange9 said:
I'd like to think the thread has the discipline, but I'm really not sure we do. We just set ourselves up perfectly for Silver and then immediately pivoted towards the two worst Arete options last update. Moreover, I suspect this extra time gives the Apocryphal the chance to continue scheming in the background.

Apocryphal will continue scheming no matter what we do; and facing two procs at the same time is clearly worse than just one. We have gotten two EFB's before at higher prices, we can do so again,. especially if there's pressure on us. We can do well.

Sharkey_smt said:
I...don`t think we can make it if there is a timeskip. We need 28 more Arete and the thread will always attempt to jump on the next shiny thing(TG was good, don`t get me wrong). Rihaku will continue to throw some cool 7 Arete picks or some shitty MORAL GANG choice that cost us Arete.

We can possibly get Silver this weekend with some good omake storms but after that, denying ADS will be a hill many will try to die on. I prefer to get the Rotbeast out of the way and with a bit of luck get the Stranglethorn DA. I have 7k worth of reactions stashed so if a true omake storm starts during the weekend I will contribute to it.

We can avoid voting for time-skip options, and I think Rihaku won't offer one when the battle can occur as early as two weeks.I think most people are fine with ADS after Trinity, I know I am. Plus isn't strengthening Ber the beast way to get the thread to accept A-DS?

Strange9 · Jul 16, 2020

BrainInAJar said:
The problem with Rotbeast is that it might screw-up our Rank-efforts even if we win. Given we just spent 7 Arete to enhance that, it stings a bit. If we can get some assurance that we can preserve our Rank gain no matter what be much more inclined towards it, even with combining it with Ber. Bu that uncertainty keeps me at bay and makes me vote for just Ber now.

In all fairness, the next line of that quote is

Rihaku said:
*...As long as he doesn't save them.

BrainInAJar said:
Apocryphal will continue scheming no matter what we do; and facing two procs at the same time is clearly worse than just one. We have gotten two EFB's before at higher prices, we can do so again,. especially if there's pressure on us. We can do well.

Better one at the same time than two, yes -- which is exactly why I'm shying away from Bearic and towards the Rotbeast: the next Apocryphal proc (as you said, it will continue scheming) may come just as Bearic takes a swing at us.
I'd like to trust the threads judgment, but one of those EFB picks was because of the Praxis (which is a well-known for thread madness) and the other was to not-die. I don't know if we'll have a similar opportunity before the Bear ganks us.

Taka · Jul 16, 2020

[X] One
[X] Prestige Classing

All In or Bust.

BrainInAJar · Jul 16, 2020

Strange9 said:
In all fairness, the next line of that quote is

I guess Rihaku will remind people again of the danger-level expected of a 4-pick fight and the option will lose support. It's not exactly safer than Ber considering we can prepare for the latter much more effectively.

Sharkey_smt · Jul 16, 2020

BrainInAJar said:
Plus isn't strengthening Ber the beast way to get the thread to accept A-DS?

Rihaku will offer Praxis training before ADS is complete and you know what will happen.
After that ultra-rare super mega duper ultimate mage option for 7 Arete - you know what will happen.
After that Gisena EFB at half the price - you know what will happen.

The true Apocryphal curse has a face and it is a burning phoenix. I have given up hope - you should try to do the same, it is surprisingly liberating

Byzantine · Jul 16, 2020

In all fairness @Rihaku I know I don't count for much but I would really prefer if you didn't do a vote for apocryphal like this again. Better to just take our licks instead of having to pick them. It's like being asked to choose your own switch as a kid.

Dark Lord Bob · Jul 16, 2020

BrainInAJar said:
I guess Rihaku will remind people again of the danger-level expected of a 4-pick fight and the option will lose support.

Rihaku said:
Alternatively, have you considered Rotbeast + One? That's only a 3.5 pick fight in terms of difficulty

So 100% Rotbeast is a 3.5 pick fight. I don't know exactly what that means for the risk of 80% Rotbeast, but it puts it at a level I'm comfortable with.

Lealope · Jul 16, 2020

Sharkey_smt said:
Rihaku will offer Praxis training before ADS is complete and you know what will happen.

Nah, PRAXIS voters would fight tooth and nail to avoid Praxis training while we're at 14 or less Arete. I would vote for literally anything but that, just because of how accutely painful it would be if we ended up going into a training session and get only 1 pick. Can't speak for Maeg or Gisena Gang though.

agumentic · Jul 16, 2020

Sharkey_smt said:
the thread will always attempt to jump on the next shiny thing

Yeah, remember how we picked Slice Fate, Philosopher's Wreath and Shadowlord? The thread can save perfectly well if it is properly encouraged to do so. Like, for example, if we have a deathmatch in two weeks.

Sharkey_smt · Jul 16, 2020

agumentic said:
Yeah, remember how we picked Slice Fate, Philosopher's Wreath and Shadowlord? The thread can save perfectly well if it is properly encouraged to do so. Like, for example, if we have a deathmatch in two weeks.

Vote for Slice fate - here
Vote for Shadowlord - here
It is roughly 60-40, and this is some odds that I just don`t think we can bet on. And this was after we almost died against Vanreir and the thread still had to be dragged kicking and screaming to SAVE.

agumentic said:
properly encouraged

Gotchu fam, I just bought a new belt that has not yet been bathed in blood of the heretics.

EDIT PS: There is a reason I used the word attempt.

Rihaku · Jul 16, 2020

Current vote count?

Box Lunch · Jul 16, 2020

Magical_Duck said:
Or Perhaps about a newly minted High Elementalist learning to wield their Element of Dawnhope

Are you sure you don't mean FairBright

A Simple Transaction I

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