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A Simple Transaction I

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vali said:
Not sure if this has been said before, but:

Traditionally, in order to use a ring you have to wear it around your body. The innovation of the Temple is that the use of dimensional vortex allows you to place people, ring-extraction equipment, and houses, and have all count as being inside the ring. That is to say, the entire Inner Temple is inside the ring in the most literal way possible, which explains why more than one person can access its light and power, and why shutting down the vortex kills everyone within. The night sky that the star forges mine is literally the inner band of the ring.

The linear halo also mimics the Temple/ring structure, in that there is an inner halo that enhances magic and an outer halo that allows more power to be projected outwards.
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huh, that's pretty crazy but might really be true
 
Sharkey_smt said:
In a world of conceptual magic systems(like Soul Evocation) stats are not the top dog. Some of those immortal neets could have the Soul Evocation of "Nothing personnel, kid", which always allows them to strike first by teleporting behind us and backstabbing us with (preferrably black to keep the weeb tradition) katana.
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Ehhh. Dunno.

I mean, yes, conceptual magic can override any given stat. On the other hand, a lot of conceptual magic abilities still rely on the underlying "infrastructure" of stats. For instance, Vanrier's all-piercing thrust let him SORD his way through (almost) anything, but he still had to be able to physically perceive his opponents and act in time to hurt them before they literally cut him to pieces.

Having high Agility greatly increases your chances against most conceptual magic systems though not literally all of them, because it increases your chance of shooting first in what is essentially a game of rocket tag.
 
Unelemental said:
That doesn't make much sense. The timeline is the same in both options, or might be even worse for Larissa ("Convincing Larissa was not difficult, but it was time-consuming" is written in the costs of the option) so the Immortals don't really stand a better chance of massing up in Who Walked Away before we attack them.
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The timeline wouldn't be the same in both options, because Larrisa logistics explicitly make carrying out the evancuation not allow them to mass up if we pick her, but that it would we do so which any other option.

Unelemental said:
They tend to do the right thing over the practical thing, but when the suggestion is 'kill the goddamn Immortals to make further actions easier', why would they object?
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Because taking the ring will cause a dimensional collapse that will cause millions of people to lose their lives. Why wouldn't they care about that?
 
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...Hang on, I'm confused.

Taking the Ring from its mounting-place would cause a dimensional collapse.

But why would killing the Immortals have that effect?
 
Sara said:
The timeline wouldn't be the same in both options, because Larrisa logistics explicitly make carrying out the evancuation not allow them to mass up if we pick her, but that it would we do so which any other option.



Because killing the immortals will cause a dimensional collapse that will cause millions of people to lose their lives. Why wouldn't they care about that?
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...I think we might be talking past each other or I might have missed something. I thought taking the Ring would cause the dimensional collapse, why would killing the Immortals do that? They're only the (most significant) beneficiaries of its power.

And I've talked about killing them first before thinking about taking the Ring and starting the evacuation in my post, why would Larissa's help in that regard matter? It only does if we take the Ring before killing them all, and so we would have to simultaneously evacuate people and fight the rest of the Immortals.
 
Unelemental said:
And I've talked about killing them first before thinking about taking the Ring and starting the evacuation in my post, why would Larissa's help in that regard matter? It only does if we take the Ring before killing them all, and so would have to simultaneously evacuate people and fight the rest of the Immortals.
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Sorry, see my above post, but I did in fact misunderstand you. In that case it would help us figure out which Immortal would be easiest to take down and possibly help track them down thanks to the info advantage, but also in that having more power to bring to bear in the form of the house forces would make taking the immortal out before it recieved back up or gave us a complication faster, easier, and safer.
 
Sara said:
Sorry, see my above post, but I did in fact misunderstand you. In that case it would help us figure out which Immortal would be easiest to take down and possibly help track them down thanks to the info advantage, but also in that having more power to bring to bear in the form of the house forces would make taking the immortal out before it recieved back up or gave us a complication faster, easier, and safer.
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Which is probably the crux of our disagreement. I believe that greater personal power would be of bigger use here, since we're the greatest and fastest-growing asset we can field. It's not a minor difference in power, IMO, since the Fairbrights have been so hyped up for a long time and she basically costs so much on her own, but I obviously don't have concrete numbers, so I can't prove anything. Just my personal preference here in the end.
 
I don't particularly care about humanitarian reasons, but there's something to be said about choosing Fairbright and aiming to make a better society for everyone even at the risk of mass deaths rather than allowing present elite to continue ruling even if it has less chances of people dying.
 
Uhh, I think the mass deaths would really get in the way of making a better society, but maybe that's just me. It's not like Larissa will for sure become a tyrannical force, especially given how much more powerful we will likely be at the end of this. We can just put things on a better course ourselves.
 
[X] Larissa of House Alynne
[X] Fierce Quickening
[X] Hero-Defeating Stance

Voting for Larissa without any hard conviction, If someone could convince me siding with Fairbright is actually a higher chance for victory I'd do it.
 
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agumentic said:
I don't particularly care about humanitarian reasons, but there's something to be said about choosing Fairbright and aiming to make a better society for everyone even at the risk of mass deaths rather than allowing present elite to continue ruling even if it has less chances of people dying.
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Yep, it means that we have become a modern day anarchist - destroy the system, fuck the innocent, feel smug and self righteous that we have made change in the world (doesn`t matter if it is good or bad)
 
With most of their magic gone, no infrastructure and no immortals backing them the surviving elites will have much less comparative advantage over the rest of the population than they do now. Attempting tyranny would be unwise.
 
Sharkey_smt said:
Yep, it means that we have become a modern day anarchist - destroy the system, fuck the innocent, feel smug and self righteous that we have made change in the world (doesn`t matter if it is good or bad)
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Well, it's not like mass deaths would be the goal or even an unavoidable consequence, just something we would risk. On the other hand, "Risking mass deaths for a better world" is a revolutionary motto that often ended badly. But it doesn't necessarily means that striving for the better world is not worth it, either.
 
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noliar said:
With most of their magic gone, no infrastructure and no immortals backing them the surviving elites will have much less comparative advantage over the rest of the population than they do now. Attempting tyranny would be unwise.
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They still have the systems of entrenched personal loyalty that allow modern day warlords and politicians to stay in power!
 
vali said:
Not sure if this has been said before, but:

Traditionally, in order to use a ring you have to wear it around your body. The innovation of the Temple is that the use of dimensional vortex allows you to place people, ring-extraction equipment, and houses, and have all count as being inside the ring. That is to say, the entire Inner Temple is inside the ring in the most literal way possible, which explains why more than one person can access its light and power, and why shutting down the vortex kills everyone within. The night sky that the star forges mine is literally the inner band of the ring.

The linear halo also mimics the Temple/ring structure, in that there is an inner halo that enhances magic and an outer halo that allows more power to be projected outwards.
Click to expand...
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Rihaku said:
Come now into mine grasp, that my descedents may flourish evermore.
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Huh, so Plerion was being very very literal when he told them to come into his "grasp."
 
Strange9 said:
Huh, so Plerion was being very very literal when he told them to come into his "grasp."
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Oh shit. If Plerion is still alive, and the dimensional vortex is extracting energy from the ring of the False Moon, then that means he may be able to drain our rings energy just as easily as the False Moon ring.

Tl;Dr: Fighting Plerion without World Defeating Stance would be a very dangerous idea due to him being able to potentially make a lesser version of the Ring's Dimensional Vortex to drain our powers assuming his Soul Evocation is a form of Dimensional Manipulation to do that or he's built devices to make that happen.

Edit: It would even explain how Fairbright lost. Plerion's dimensional manipulation bullshit neutralized her powers because she didn't have a defense against hostile metaphysics.
 
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Stances are certainly good, but why are people voting for Larissa and on taking one already when we'll most likely have another update about the tactical information she'll give us and for Hunger's plan to take on the Immortals since he would finally have some concrete knowledge on them.

We can see what that knowledge is and only then commit to a stance that will prove the most useful for the challenges ahead of us.
 
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So for yesterday's TED talk I discussed how Hunger's inner nature is defined by the Hero of a Thousand Faces.

vali said:
Hunger's Soul Evocation: An Explanation

Short Version: The Hero with a Thousand Faces contains multitudes within, and as the Master of Two Worlds he is the warden of the prison we call reality.
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Today I'll be looking at why Edeldross is so fitting as an imaginary element for Hunger.

Rihaku said:
[ ] Edeldross: This precursor component of findross embodies redemption, perfection, restoration and the renewal of cycles. It is the liminal gloss between real and ideal, whereby the purposeless matter of the corporeal world becomes the refined substrate of supernal augmentation. Blasts, voids and shields of solidified edeldross convey the principle of 'transference without harm,' allowing the character to re-position allies and scatter enemies with minimal possibility of collateral damage. Kinetic flight is possible through continuous burst releases, but its greatest benefits are found in augmentation. Pure edeldross is semi-corporeal and swiftly fades beneath the withering indifference of the real, but contained within a person's body it holistically augments all elements of the self, supernal excellence beyond the reach of the mundane.

Hunger's Imaginary Element is determined by his relationships. Gisena's art, shaped by Letrizia's language and technique, conferring Catherine's benevolence. +Gisena, +Letrizia, +Catherine (?)
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Rihaku said:
He called forth a surge of it, bathing himself in that nameless translucence. Swiftly he felt his mind sharpen and body grow stronger, the powers of his self and soul tuned like a violin-string towards a more perfect expression. It was a powerful and comprehensive enchantment, hopeful and clean...

For a moment he paused in consternation, having expected something bleaker, a power more in line with his other abilities. What did it mean that his personal Element had manifested in a form like this?
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Edeldross is determined by his relationships, so here is which elements correspond to which relationships.

Redemption: Catherene is a female Jesus; she was the daughter of the asshole Tyrant who ruled the world and sentenced everyone to suffering, and her death let Hunger kill the Tyrant and save the world. So redemption makes a lot of sense.

Perfection: This is Gisena's element, her influence on his magic. Perfection isn't the only element of Findross, but it is one that Gisena emulates most expertly, in both form and mind.

Restoration: Letrizia obviously desires the restoration of her broken mech, but she also wants to be restored to what she see's as her rightful place in society. Like many youth, she's still finding her place in the world, still believes that life owes her something. We see her shyness, and how upset she gets by the thought of other people being superior to her, her need to believe that the Empire is better than its rivals instead of being their equals or worse.

But while Hunger is certainly influenced by the Triple-Goddess of Letrizia, Catherene, and Gisena (who represent Maiden, Mother, and Crone respectively (sorry Gisena)), any relationship is a two way street, and we can see how Hunger's inner nature is revealed through his interactions with others. That's why his final element is Renewal of Cycles.

Renewal of Cycles: Hunger is a faucet of the Heroic Archetype, which includes the cycle called "The Hero's Journey" where the hero passes from "The Call to Adventure" to "Freedom to Live". The reason that he is not just the cycle but the renewal of cycles is because the Apocryphal Curse and his own Cursebearer nature insures that the Hero's Journey can never truly end, only endlessly repeat.

So in conclusion, that's why Hunger got these four elements based on his relationships. Three for his ladies, and one element for himself.

Final thoughts:
Edeldross being "the liminal gloss between real and ideal" matches the way Seven Seals mediates the connection between the concrete world and the Realm of Forms.
There's probably some sort of bonus for getting the EFB for all three of Letrizia, Catherene, and Gisena.
 
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