To do some devil's advocating of my own, Foment Rebellion plays to Hunger's historical strengths as a rabble-rousing hero. It's nothing he's not done before and with Vigor Incarnate or Ennobling he'd be very good at it here. Plus, we improved Aeira's facility for Combat and Gisena's just about to emerge from her metaphorical chrysalis! Are we such Rank-hungry glory hounds that we can't share the victory, even when waiting increases our overall odds of achieving it? Cutting Through has its memetic appeal and there is something to be said for seizing the day, but slow and steady wins the race for a reason.

It's another piece of damningly reckless characterization, relying on rushing into the unknown and hoping that pulling the plug will cripple the Immortals. The available intelligence we have indicates it will, but Temple society is not exactly a bastion of transparency! They've probably been mining the moon and hoarding the proceeds to empower the inner circle, who knows what trump cards they have tucked away for when their own rains come? There are two other High Marshalls on alert. Every victory feeds Hunger's power, but would he have won against two Avecarns? Capacitor and Wyvernford are still out there, and they're just the tip of the iceberg.

Why not harness the many justified grievances that people have with the Inners? The Call's gone, the Encampment may disperse if we don't act now to recruit whatever relevant combatants we can sift from the greedy rabble. The oldest and strongest non-Immortal members of the Temple, the ones who are running up against the thousand-year limit? They can be turned. We took Guile-Defeating Stance, now we can take an option that exploits it. Blood's Ringbearer shouldn't triumph in a single gaudy burst of power. Bleed them, slowly and shamelessly.
 
Kind of sad the strategizing didn't pan out, but such is life!

[X] Foment Rebellion
[X] Feat: Shameless
 
Ring sirens wake people up, angry blood man charges directly into the city, you are repressed and downtrodden, Hunger says "X," you do Y.

X=Have blood juice and fuck shit up my dude, Y=Panic?
X=You have nothing to lose but your chains! Y=Revolution?
X=The Star Forges are breaking down, but I, the antiPlerion, stand strong! Join me, and we will usher in a new era of equality, freedom, and long life for our children! Y=Revolution!

Huh, my first thought was "there's no way at this point," but I kinda like the last one.
 
Do not envy them their eternal vigilance, and mourn not your finite hours, for it is by their tireless regard that the Treasure which shelters us all is kept secure for the generations to come. Theirs is not a privilege but a duty, no reward but an onerous and ceaseless burden, which is why any Councilor elevated to the Rank of Immortal is stripped of all commissions and departmental roles, and their voting power further cut by half.

While Inner Ring residents benefit from regular exposure to the Treasure's directly refracted glow, Middle Temple outriders must make do with the second-hand light that emerges from their Sigils. The worthy are elevated to join us, but do not concern yourself with pity for the other residents of the Middle Temple. Existence itself is a boon to them who live beyond the prescribed ten million. They are defended in large part by our largesse, with a not-insignificant fraction of our star-stuff re-directed to power the Ritual Grounds.
Doesn't sound like they leave the ring unguarded and even one immortal might be too much for us to handle on our own.
 
It's pretty telling that 'attack only part of their full strength after directly strengthening yourself 50% more pickwise' has worse odds of success than 'allow Gisena to catch up, and then smash against every single Immortal in their place of power with the rebellion helping'
 
To do some devil's advocating of my own, Foment Rebellion plays to Hunger's historical strengths as a rabble-rousing hero. It's nothing he's not done before and with Vigor Incarnate or Ennobling he'd be very good at it here. Plus, we improved Aeira's facility for Combat and Gisena's just about to emerge from her metaphorical chrysalis! Are we such Rank-hungry glory hounds that we can't share the victory, even when waiting increases our overall odds of achieving it? Cutting Through has its memetic appeal and there is something to be said for seizing the day, but slow and steady wins the race for a reason.

It's another piece of damningly reckless characterization, relying on rushing into the unknown and hoping that pulling the plug will cripple the Immortals. The available intelligence we have indicates it will, but Temple society is not exactly a bastion of transparency! They've probably been mining the moon and hoarding the proceeds to empower the inner circle, who knows what trump cards they have tucked away for when their own rains come? There are two other High Marshalls on alert. Every victory feeds Hunger's power, but would he have won against two Avecarns? Capacitor and Wyvernford are still out there, and they're just the tip of the iceberg.

Why not harness the many justified grievances that people have with the Inners? The Call's gone, the Encampment may disperse if we don't act now to recruit whatever relevant combatants we can sift from the greedy rabble. The oldest and strongest non-Immortal members of the Temple, the ones who are running up against the thousand-year limit? They can be turned. We took Guile-Defeating Stance, now we can take an option that exploits it. Blood's Ringbearer doesn't triumph in a single gaudy burst of power. Bleed them, slowly and shamelessly.
That Hunger is experienced in this is a good point, but the momentum we have now is literally priceless; there's no way the Inner Temple won't go into a full war footing after this. Part of strategy is recognizing when to push; and when their forces are disorganized is literally a prime opportunity! We don't want to face their full mobilization; that's a lot of accumulated power we'd have to face against.

Plus, as a former A-DS voter, don't you just want to solve this as quickly as possible?
It's pretty telling that 'attack only part of their full strength after directly strengthening yourself 50% more pickwise' has worse odds of success than 'allow Gisena to catch up, and then smash against every single Immortal in their place of power with the rebellion helping'
No, it has more odds of success depending on strategy. Given this thread's track record, I don't trust that in the least. Keep it simple and minimize the points of failure; that's the key to good planning.
 
Doesn't sound like they leave the ring unguarded and even one immortal might be too much for us to handle on our own.
In fairness, that could just be propaganda intended to paint them as the dutiful protectors of civilization. But I'd expect to have at least one Immortal guarding the Treasure around the clock, that's the bare minimum of expected vigilance. Then there are the sigils to consider, we've seen them used to communicate and we've seen just how fast Hunger can move these days, so if they put out a call of their own and we don't commit a successful Ring-napping things could get hairy fast. Could try targeting the sigils, but honestly I expect they've got redundant alarm systems we know nothing about. It's the literal backbone of their civilization, it's going to be a fucking fortress.

Anyway, serious strategizing aside, Hunger's probable thoughts: "I'm gonna pull the whole thing down. I'm gonna bring the whole fuckin' diseased, corrupt Temple down on your head. It's gonna be biblical."
 
No, it has more odds of success depending on strategy. Given this thread's track record, I don't trust that in the least. Keep it simple and minimize the points of failure; that's the key to good planning.
To clarify from something Rihaku said elsewhere, both options depend on build and tactics but rebellion has a higher native chance of success apparently.
 
Don't the Immortals keep a constant guard on it? That's the justification for why they get to be immortal right?
Doesn't sound like they leave the ring unguarded and even one immortal might be too much for us to handle on our own.
This is correct, but that being said, per the vote option:

*The defenders are scattered and disorganized. Many Immortals and relevant combatants may be at home or otherwise occupied. Free the Ring and finish this.

I'm not necessarily saying it is a GOOD plan, just that the plan is to hope that with speed and confusion Hunger can avoid enough excessively dangerous fights.
 
The Ring's final, desperate plea did seem to evoke some pathos... but perhaps not enough to qualify for Passion.

Perhaps it's not a matter of degree, but duration! Hunger's stoic veil falls quickly, else how could age and treachery be summoned so reliably?

Question @Rihaku. Does that last line -- "You are treated as if in a form with corporeal blood, even if you would otherwise not be." -- also apply only if you are at Full HP, like all the rest of the bonuses?

Yes. But that rarely matters for Wraith Ambush, and there are further ways to mitigate this weakness!

Not in one million years of analysis will I be able to puzzle out what signal you intended me to glean from this message.

There's no hidden meaning, I really think Vigor Incarnate is great value for the cost. I'm amused but not wholly surprised it's not more popular.

Anyway, this chapter is my favorite update from all of your quests that I've read. Really excellent work! :V

Thanks!

The last few days of this quest, whoooh. I'm reeling from how my diplomacy dreams ended with a bang. Not in a salty way, it's absolutely hilarious. Pick Crimson Flare to help with diplomacy? Everything goes to shit instantly. Title? Terrifying. Guile-Defeating Stance for sneakery? Charge and slaughter. Tactics? Rejected. Avecarn? Ave, carn.

I didn't even get my powerpoint presentation. ;_;

You can still Forment Rebellion! That would put Hunger's social investment to good use. Hence why it has better odds.

Even our winning strat against Vanreir was made by Hunger on his wholesome and everything we suggested that made it in was useless smh

It wasn't useless, Hunger avoided dying until he could Age and Treachery his way into a win!

It's pretty telling that 'attack only part of their full strength after directly strengthening yourself 50% more pickwise' has worse odds of success than 'allow Gisena to catch up, and then smash against every single Immortal in their place of power with the rebellion helping'

Sure, Gisena is worth way more than 1 pick, especially now that you have a lot more Advancements! Plus you have whatever Soul Evokers you can turn to your side + Blood Buff on your army! Rank 7 Blood Buff is strong.
 
[X] Foment Rebellion
[X] Feat: Shameless


I wanted to vote for Vigor Incarnate, but NOT DYING requires that we include Gisena in our assault on the Temple's society. She is a hard-counter to many of the approaches that the Temple has specialized in. She can cover our Protection gap and will also do the work of VI's +CHA as far as inspiring dissent.

Fomenting Rebellion will be easiest with lessened narrative headwinds which means that we need to reduce our Rank disparity.
 
[X] Cut
[X] Feat: Shameless - +.25 Rank
[X] The Ring of Power -
Dominion: War

I return, diminished but no less jocular!

"Go big, because you can't go home anymore." -The Rank Man

Arisen is also really good, but numbers going up enthralls me.
 
One thing to be kept in mind: The tactic that we used, to cut once and bleed the enemy out, is very unlikely to actually work on the immortals. They are likely much more powerful, for one, and if we spend too much time, they can likely call the others for help. We also know that there is at the very least one lich, which blood debuff would be worthless against. There is the possiblity of having at the very least one immortal without blood.
 
One thing to be kept in mind: The tactic that we used, to cut once and bleed the enemy out, is very unlikely to actually work on the immortals. They are likely much more powerful, for one, and if we spend too much time, they can likely call the others for help. We also know that there is at the very least one lich, which blood debuff would be worthless against. There is the possiblity of having at the very least one immortal without blood.

Hunger could have used many other strategies, he went with this one because it had the highest odds of victory. Focusing fully on defense is much safer!
 
A question, would fomenting rebellion spread our fame better thus getting us more rank? Or is it about the same as cut?
 
Vigor is a tremendous option, but Rank is just that good. Less risk fighting high rank opponents, more fortune in getting favorable encounters, Rank is like +Luck and also -relevant stats for your opponent. We do what it takes to win, friends.
 
As we once again pass up on opalescence, a thought.
Going straight from not picking Opalescence to Pillars would be like saying "Invest in better armor? Nonsense. I'll buy a house."
This amuses me

One thing to be kept in mind: The tactic that we used, to cut once and bleed the enemy out, is very unlikely to actually work on the immortals. They are likely much more powerful, for one, and if we spend too much time, they can likely call the others for help. We also know that there is at the very least one lich, which blood debuff would be worthless against. There is the possiblity of having at the very least one immortal without blood.
Half the value of blood rank is being able to buff ourselves while debuffing others, after all. Our strategy would have been a whole lot worse if we were relying on just the former of those two.
 
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