-
Going forward, links to content from Twitter (now X) will no longer be embedded. Pre-existing links should not be affected.
A Simple Transaction I
- Thread starter Rihaku
- Start date
- Original
Fanwork#1668 Words
You know how we were told that any alternate Heroes that didn't receive the Accursed's offer and survived would surely be up to something interesting? Well, I tried my hand at it and this came out. He would probably need lots more Arete than our Hunger though.
Omake: "A Weighty Transaction"
The stale air made breathing difficult, his prison trying to rot his mind as it did his body. Before his final sally against the Tyrant, the crude bars would have barely slowed him down, but now the former Hero could barely move. Injuries old and new flared up as he tried to find a better position, instinct driving him to strive for even one more second despite his mind knowing that death was just around the corner.
Tomorrow would be his execution day.
They'd taken excruciating care to help him keep track of time, every visit a countdown to the final day that was signified by new pain. He was kept right at the edge where he could still survive of course, they wanted to make a spectacle out of it. They had even left his broken Blade behind for him and let him keep the Tyrant's Ring, the 'evil' Artifacts completing the picture of the corrupted Hero betraying his people in his mad lust for power.
He had raged at first, quietly simmering and planning his escape as soon as he saw an opportunity, but none ever came. Then he had despaired and even thought about... finishing it all, but his last memory of Catherine had stayed his hand. Then came calm acceptance, the burn of knowledge that they were going to get away with it and that he would die unavenged an old and familiar friend by that point.
Now he was just tired. So very, very tired. He didn't want to give up, would never stop his struggle till his last breath, but he'd slammed against his limits and could go no further.
There would be no last-minute miraculous save, anyone who could have helped him already sacrificed on the altar of necessity. He didn't doubt for a moment the rectitude of fighting the Tyrant, but the results had left him bitter and resentful. Was this what they'd given up everything for? So that the kings and lords could maintain this deplorable status quo?
It had disgusted him enough to try rallying support and change things, despite how much he had wanted to forget it all and settle down somewhere. But it felt too much like the Tyrant winning, and that wasn't something he could abide by.
He had promised, had given everything of himself to ensure their final victory, and to leave things unfinished after all that had felt inexcusable.
Which was how he had ended up here, walled in and waiting for death.
He was swimming in and out of consciousness by that point, the world blurring in and out of focus. It almost felt dreamlike, as if he was trapped in a never-ending illusion that he couldn't wake up from. Maybe he could just close his eyes and rest for a minute...
Get up.
For a moment he thought he was hallucinating. There was no one else present in his cell, but he had clearly heard someone speak up. Was it time for the next visit?..
Get Up.
With a jolt the former Hero skipped to full wakefulness, his body somehow finding the strength to lift his head and open his eyes again.
There was a shadowy figure of a man standing in front of him. He was might made manifest, cruel inevitability given form and purpose, murderous prowess that heeded no excuses nor explanations.
He had never seen this man in his life before, had never heard that gravelly and solemn voice until this moment. But nobody could ever mistake this man for anyone but who he was, the sheer monumental presence searing itself into his perceptions a billion times over. The only reason he hadn't been driven insane by the vision was that the man... wasn't really there? It was but a reflection of his true spirit, only real to Hunger's own perceptions.
Even if it hadn't been obvious on first sight who his late visitor was, the former Hero would have recognized the man immediately anyway. After all, he still carried the man's Blade even now, broken and shattered as it was.
What irony, to be visited by the Forebear's ghost in his last moments.
I am no ghost, came the whisper, though he couldn't see any lip movements. And I tire of your pointless sniveling. GET. UP.
"Ah," he rasped out, throat raw and parched. "I would love to, but-"
I won't be telling you a fourth time, descendant.
The voice was calm still, but he could hear the implied threat loud and clear. So he got up. And then blinked in surprise, finding his injuries still there and throbbing in pain... but not affecting him anymore. In fact, the prisoner felt even better than before his capture and confinement occurred, his wounds bizarrely lending him strength instead of holding him down.
"Why," he licked his lips, "why are you here. Now?"
The last word slipped out, bitter and astringent on his tongue.
He wanted to rage and complain, ask why the Forebear had only deigned to grace the former Hero with his presence now of all times, rather than earlier during the war, when it would have mattered so much more. But he held those words back. A faint glimmer of hope had been lit in his heart, still all too fragile and easily broken. He didn't want to do anything to jeopardize his chances.
I am here for one thing and one thing only, the Forebear said grimly, though for some reason the former Hero thought he heard a note of humor in the Forebear's voice. To offer you a simple transaction.
"What kind of... transaction?" he asked back, worry and desperate longing warring for supremacy in his heart. "Can you help me escape?"
Escape? Came back the derisive answer. You can escape if you want to, but no matter how far you run, you will end up back here. Your true enemies have no need of their hero anymore.
"True enemies?" he choked out. "You're not talking about the nobles, are you?"
Of course not. Did you think your summoning had been a coincidence?
He swayed, suddenly unsteady on his feet as despair threatened to engulf him again. He had lost nearly everything in that war, only to find out now that it had been staged by some shadowy masters?
But I'm not here to talk about that, the Forebear continued blithely. I am here to propose an exchange. What you do afterwards does not concern me.
The former Hero shook off his distracting thoughts and concentrated on listening. No matter what else held true, this could be his final chance and he would not miss it due to a moment of inattention.
First is what I would grant you: a portion of my powers and a means to retreat beyond their reach. My intervention will muddle the waters, but know that it is only a temporary solution and they will follow you in time. In return there is only one thing I want from you: to grow strong and survive for as long as you can.
He blinked in surprise.
"You don't want me to fight them?" he asked hesitantly.
Fight them? You? The Forebear chuckled, his voice more a ruinous avalanche than anything a human throat could produce. I pride myself on not having unrealistic expectations for my descendants.
The former Hero blushed in shame, indignation warring with relief in his breast.
Do not daydream. Even just surviving is going to be a difficult task once they find you. What you have experienced so far is nothing compared to what they would do to a rebellious toy. Decide now, I do not have much time.
There was much he still wanted to ask, but he could see that the Forebear's shadow was blurring around the edges.
"What do I have to do?" he asked at last. In the end there was no choice, it was either accept this bargain or die the very next day.
And no matter how much it hurt, he still wanted to live.
Take up my Blade. I will only show you once.
The former Hero looked around, finding the Forebear's Blade in a corner and picking it up gingerly. It looked like it could fall apart any moment, the last strike against the Tyrant having taken its toll on his loyal weapon. Could it still be of use, he wondered? It felt just as broken as he did.
But the Forebear didn't show any doubts, he just stepped through and into the former Hero, their magics overlapping for a brief moment.
His body moved on its own volition, taking up an awkward Stance, then adjusting swiftly after noting how the lacking arm affected positioning. It was not a Stance for fighting enemies, though there were some exceptions to that among the higher echelons of foes. Its target wasn't any single thing, but rather the World standing in one's path.
His body was lacking, his spirit strained and his mind dull, but that didn't matter to the Forebear.
"This," the Forebear spoke with his lips, his voice acquiring a strange echo, "is what it means to Cut."
Their Blade swung, the movement somehow seeming more real and important than anything he had ever experienced. Everything else faded away and only the Cut remained, going through the air, the space, the achingly blue firmament beneath-
The world had been rent open and now there was a portal in front of him.
Now go through, the Forebear's voice rang in his thoughts. We'll finish our bargain on the other side.
Still reeling from what he had seen and felt, the former Hero nodded numbly and stepped forward.
He had a feeling things wouldn't get much easier from here, but... that last Cut remained seared into his thoughts. One day, he decided, he would also be able to do the same.
And whether the Forebear believed him capable of it or not, he wouldn't content himself with running away from his enemies forever.
You know how we were told that any alternate Heroes that didn't receive the Accursed's offer and survived would surely be up to something interesting? Well, I tried my hand at it and this came out. He would probably need lots more Arete than our Hunger though.
Omake: "A Weighty Transaction"
The stale air made breathing difficult, his prison trying to rot his mind as it did his body. Before his final sally against the Tyrant, the crude bars would have barely slowed him down, but now the former Hero could barely move. Injuries old and new flared up as he tried to find a better position, instinct driving him to strive for even one more second despite his mind knowing that death was just around the corner.
Tomorrow would be his execution day.
They'd taken excruciating care to help him keep track of time, every visit a countdown to the final day that was signified by new pain. He was kept right at the edge where he could still survive of course, they wanted to make a spectacle out of it. They had even left his broken Blade behind for him and let him keep the Tyrant's Ring, the 'evil' Artifacts completing the picture of the corrupted Hero betraying his people in his mad lust for power.
He had raged at first, quietly simmering and planning his escape as soon as he saw an opportunity, but none ever came. Then he had despaired and even thought about... finishing it all, but his last memory of Catherine had stayed his hand. Then came calm acceptance, the burn of knowledge that they were going to get away with it and that he would die unavenged an old and familiar friend by that point.
Now he was just tired. So very, very tired. He didn't want to give up, would never stop his struggle till his last breath, but he'd slammed against his limits and could go no further.
There would be no last-minute miraculous save, anyone who could have helped him already sacrificed on the altar of necessity. He didn't doubt for a moment the rectitude of fighting the Tyrant, but the results had left him bitter and resentful. Was this what they'd given up everything for? So that the kings and lords could maintain this deplorable status quo?
It had disgusted him enough to try rallying support and change things, despite how much he had wanted to forget it all and settle down somewhere. But it felt too much like the Tyrant winning, and that wasn't something he could abide by.
He had promised, had given everything of himself to ensure their final victory, and to leave things unfinished after all that had felt inexcusable.
Which was how he had ended up here, walled in and waiting for death.
He was swimming in and out of consciousness by that point, the world blurring in and out of focus. It almost felt dreamlike, as if he was trapped in a never-ending illusion that he couldn't wake up from. Maybe he could just close his eyes and rest for a minute...
Get up.
For a moment he thought he was hallucinating. There was no one else present in his cell, but he had clearly heard someone speak up. Was it time for the next visit?..
Get Up.
With a jolt the former Hero skipped to full wakefulness, his body somehow finding the strength to lift his head and open his eyes again.
There was a shadowy figure of a man standing in front of him. He was might made manifest, cruel inevitability given form and purpose, murderous prowess that heeded no excuses nor explanations.
He had never seen this man in his life before, had never heard that gravelly and solemn voice until this moment. But nobody could ever mistake this man for anyone but who he was, the sheer monumental presence searing itself into his perceptions a billion times over. The only reason he hadn't been driven insane by the vision was that the man... wasn't really there? It was but a reflection of his true spirit, only real to Hunger's own perceptions.
Even if it hadn't been obvious on first sight who his late visitor was, the former Hero would have recognized the man immediately anyway. After all, he still carried the man's Blade even now, broken and shattered as it was.
What irony, to be visited by the Forebear's ghost in his last moments.
I am no ghost, came the whisper, though he couldn't see any lip movements. And I tire of your pointless sniveling. GET. UP.
"Ah," he rasped out, throat raw and parched. "I would love to, but-"
I won't be telling you a fourth time, descendant.
The voice was calm still, but he could hear the implied threat loud and clear. So he got up. And then blinked in surprise, finding his injuries still there and throbbing in pain... but not affecting him anymore. In fact, the prisoner felt even better than before his capture and confinement occurred, his wounds bizarrely lending him strength instead of holding him down.
"Why," he licked his lips, "why are you here. Now?"
The last word slipped out, bitter and astringent on his tongue.
He wanted to rage and complain, ask why the Forebear had only deigned to grace the former Hero with his presence now of all times, rather than earlier during the war, when it would have mattered so much more. But he held those words back. A faint glimmer of hope had been lit in his heart, still all too fragile and easily broken. He didn't want to do anything to jeopardize his chances.
I am here for one thing and one thing only, the Forebear said grimly, though for some reason the former Hero thought he heard a note of humor in the Forebear's voice. To offer you a simple transaction.
"What kind of... transaction?" he asked back, worry and desperate longing warring for supremacy in his heart. "Can you help me escape?"
Escape? Came back the derisive answer. You can escape if you want to, but no matter how far you run, you will end up back here. Your true enemies have no need of their hero anymore.
"True enemies?" he choked out. "You're not talking about the nobles, are you?"
Of course not. Did you think your summoning had been a coincidence?
He swayed, suddenly unsteady on his feet as despair threatened to engulf him again. He had lost nearly everything in that war, only to find out now that it had been staged by some shadowy masters?
But I'm not here to talk about that, the Forebear continued blithely. I am here to propose an exchange. What you do afterwards does not concern me.
The former Hero shook off his distracting thoughts and concentrated on listening. No matter what else held true, this could be his final chance and he would not miss it due to a moment of inattention.
First is what I would grant you: a portion of my powers and a means to retreat beyond their reach. My intervention will muddle the waters, but know that it is only a temporary solution and they will follow you in time. In return there is only one thing I want from you: to grow strong and survive for as long as you can.
He blinked in surprise.
"You don't want me to fight them?" he asked hesitantly.
Fight them? You? The Forebear chuckled, his voice more a ruinous avalanche than anything a human throat could produce. I pride myself on not having unrealistic expectations for my descendants.
The former Hero blushed in shame, indignation warring with relief in his breast.
Do not daydream. Even just surviving is going to be a difficult task once they find you. What you have experienced so far is nothing compared to what they would do to a rebellious toy. Decide now, I do not have much time.
There was much he still wanted to ask, but he could see that the Forebear's shadow was blurring around the edges.
"What do I have to do?" he asked at last. In the end there was no choice, it was either accept this bargain or die the very next day.
And no matter how much it hurt, he still wanted to live.
Take up my Blade. I will only show you once.
The former Hero looked around, finding the Forebear's Blade in a corner and picking it up gingerly. It looked like it could fall apart any moment, the last strike against the Tyrant having taken its toll on his loyal weapon. Could it still be of use, he wondered? It felt just as broken as he did.
But the Forebear didn't show any doubts, he just stepped through and into the former Hero, their magics overlapping for a brief moment.
His body moved on its own volition, taking up an awkward Stance, then adjusting swiftly after noting how the lacking arm affected positioning. It was not a Stance for fighting enemies, though there were some exceptions to that among the higher echelons of foes. Its target wasn't any single thing, but rather the World standing in one's path.
His body was lacking, his spirit strained and his mind dull, but that didn't matter to the Forebear.
"This," the Forebear spoke with his lips, his voice acquiring a strange echo, "is what it means to Cut."
Their Blade swung, the movement somehow seeming more real and important than anything he had ever experienced. Everything else faded away and only the Cut remained, going through the air, the space, the achingly blue firmament beneath-
The world had been rent open and now there was a portal in front of him.
Now go through, the Forebear's voice rang in his thoughts. We'll finish our bargain on the other side.
Still reeling from what he had seen and felt, the former Hero nodded numbly and stepped forward.
He had a feeling things wouldn't get much easier from here, but... that last Cut remained seared into his thoughts. One day, he decided, he would also be able to do the same.
And whether the Forebear believed him capable of it or not, he wouldn't content himself with running away from his enemies forever.
Last edited:
And this is why Heartlessness is the most important stat.
As long as we're spending arete... anyone interested in undying vanguard?
---
[ ] Forebear's Blade - Undying Vanguard - 5 Arete (0 picks).
Where tread the Forebear, his men would not fall, for the shadow of his presence could turn even death aside. And for his most stalwart servants, the reach of his shadow spanned continents and worlds.
Choose up to 5 companions whose true Astral Ranks do not exceed your own. They receive bonus Protection, Constitution and regeneration depending on both your relative power levels and their level of loyalty to you. A highly loyal companion would be about as difficult to kill as you yourself are, including the effects of your Artifacts.
---
With the apocryphal curse picking back up soon we should proably at least remember it's unlocked
---
[ ] Forebear's Blade - Undying Vanguard - 5 Arete (0 picks).
Where tread the Forebear, his men would not fall, for the shadow of his presence could turn even death aside. And for his most stalwart servants, the reach of his shadow spanned continents and worlds.
Choose up to 5 companions whose true Astral Ranks do not exceed your own. They receive bonus Protection, Constitution and regeneration depending on both your relative power levels and their level of loyalty to you. A highly loyal companion would be about as difficult to kill as you yourself are, including the effects of your Artifacts.
---
With the apocryphal curse picking back up soon we should proably at least remember it's unlocked
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
It's less relevant now that we're offensively specialized, Gisena is getting tons of Stats from High Sorceress, and Letrizia can protect herself more with Rank.
With that new and improved vigor it looks like it will get a pretty big bump!
Aabcehmu
Confusion as a Natural State of Being
- Location
- Chicago, IL
- Pronouns
- Any/All
Correct. You've been added to the ledger with a Tier-1 Signature.
LordOfMurder
Bhaal
- Location
- Australia
I think infiltration is doomed to failure. Even with the stealth route instead I we're going to inevitably end up fighting our way out or in depending when it goes wrong so I prefer the option with more combat power. Adept still gives more socia stats so we're more likely to complete it but when we trigger tyrant it gives better combat stats so we don't die.
ImperatorV
The Laughing One
- Location
- The Voyaging Realm
So, in the interests of seeing exactly how badly mages have been shafted historically, and because now that I have the idea I'm honestly curious, I've decided to analyze the outcomes of every single major build vote the quest has ever had.
I'm counting "Major build votes" as any vote where we had the opportunity to spend 2+ picks or spent 7+ Arete with one or no picks.
The Pre-Temple Era
Build Vote 1: Dragon-Jackal aftermath, updates Heart of the Matter/Heart Vote 1:
Competitors:
Auspicious Vanguard (Balanced)
Nightmare Praetor (Social/Mental stats)
Force Unto (Physical stats)
Unshattered (Everything)
Winner: Social/Mental stats (Nightmare Praetor)
Build Vote 2: Pirate Raid aftermath, updates Evening Sky/Fisher King/Praehihr
Competitors:
El Stats (Physical stats, long-term scaling)
Lord Reaper (Sword)
Star-Cloaked Shroud (Social stats, Protection)
A Curse, Deferred (Physical stats, Curse Mitigation)
Winner: Social stats, Protection, (Star-Cloaked Shroud) - This is arguably a partial Mage win, because King of Thieves, which would have blocked Mage builds permanently, got eliminated, and Evening Sky got picked, which is our best artifact for sourcing mage options.
Build Vote 3: Ber Attack aftermath, update Age and Treachery
Competitors: This one is hard to determine the main competitors for as there was no consolidation vote. I'm just going to skip to the winners.
Winner: Rank and Physical stats (Age and Trechery and Amaranth Star)
Build Vote 4: The Hunt for Healing, update Hunter Hunted
Competitors: This build vote was all healing focused, but I think I can get something out of it.
Pristine Star (Saving Arete)
Shine Bright (Ally focus)
Second Stage (Survival focus)
Undying Vanguard (physical stats, Ally focus)
Pitiless Maw (Survival focus, Sword)
Winner: Survival, Save (Second Stage and Pristine Star).
The Temple of the False Moon Era
Build Vote 5: On the way to the Temple, updates A Moment's Reprieve/A Far Bastion
Competitors:
Immortal Regiment (Physical Stats, Ally focus)
Murderer's Panoply (Sword, Physical Stats)
Bright Vanquisher (Physcial Stats, Form of Rage lol)
The Barest Cut (Sword, Saving Arete)
The Forbidden (Sword, Physical Stats, Protection)
Winner: Physical Stats, Form of Rage (Bright Vanquisher)
Build Vote 6: The Craven Knight aftermath, update War and Wind
Competitors:
Brute Force (Physical Stats, Saving Arete)
Peerless Shroud (Protection)
Slayer Knell (???, Save)
Swift as Death (Second-form focused, Physical stats?)
Winner: Physical Stats, Save (Brute Force)
Build Vote 7: The Giant Wurm aftermath, updates Winnowing Garden/Cutting Through
Competitors:
Dreadnought (Physical Stats, Mage)
Apex (Physical Stats, Saving Arete, Rank)
Strong Sword-Arm (Sword, Physical Stats)
Root and Branch (Physical Stats, long-term scaling)
Winner: Physical Stats, Save, Rank, (Apex) - Arguably a partial victory for Mage as well, as Apex won somewhat as a compromise option for those that wanted a magic system but didn't want to lose an eye to Rune King.
Build Vote 8: The Magus aftermath, update The Ritual Grounds
Competitors:
Bloodmight (Ring, compromise/balance option)
Full Might (Sword, Protection, Ally focus)
Blademight (Sword, Curse Mitigation)
Mage Lord (Mage, Mental stats sort of)
Fisher King (Mage, Garden, long-term scaling)
Winner: Ring, Compromise (Bloodmight)
Build Vote 9: Outriders aftermath, updates Fending Off/Meditations on the Sword
Competitors:
Star-Blade Saint (Sword, Ally focus, arguably mage a little?)
Bloodslayer (Physcial stats, Blood Advancement, Sword)
Balance (Sword, Saving Arete, physical stats)
Heedless War (Ring, long-term scaling via shooting for vast Ruling Ring)
Winner: Physical Stats, Blood Advancement, Sword (Bloodslayer)
Build Vote 10: Vanreir, update Sky Above Sky
Competitors:
Uttermost (Sword)
Stranglethorn (Physical Stats)
Kinslayer (Rank)
Inheritor: Librarian (Mage, Mental stats)
Inheritor: Unerring (Physical stats, Sword, arguably mage kind of?)
Winner: Sword (Uttermost)
The Vacation Era
The Big thing here is Cut Through, which did not come from a build vote. I'm counting Cut Through as a win for the entire thread as a whole, rather then any one specific faction. It could also be argued to be a Sword Win, a Mage win, or both. There are three other build votes to go through though.
Build Vote 11: Prime Rotspawn aftermath, update Accursed Implement
Competitors:
The King Stands Alone (Praxis, Sword, Physical stats)
Ruinous Valor (Sword, Saving Arete)
Prime (Rank, Saving Arete)
Winner: Sword, Saving Arete (Ruinous Valor) - this could be argued to be a minor mage victory as well, due to a factor in Ruinous Valor winning being freeing up a hand to use for Surgecraft and saving Arete for Imaginary Elements.
Build Vote 12: Imaginary Element, update Vertiginous Heights
Competitors: Mage, hybrid Mage/Evening Sky, and Mage.
Winner: Mage
Build Vote 13: Letrizia Element Awakening, update Scarlet Legion
Competitors:
Philisopher's Wreath (Mage, Mental Stats)
Ennobling (Ally focus)
2x Vigor Itself (Physical stats, social stats, Blood Advancement, Saving Arete)
Winner: Physical stats, social stats, Blood Advancement, Save (2x Vigor Itself)
Final Stats
Physical Stats has the most wins at 6. Then again, physical stats get offered in some form every single vote, while other things show up less often; furthermore, physical stats often come packaged alongside other things. So it's understandable they'd end up with more wins! Save is in second place with 5 wins, while Sword has only 3 wins (4 if you count Cut Through), which is less then I expected. Two of the biggest recent votes (Outriders and Vanreir) went Sword though, which may be why I was overestimating them. Social has 3 wins, but they've all been relatively minor wins with the social being half or less of the winning option's effect. Rank has only won 2 major build votes. The real loser is mental stats, which have only won once at the very beginning! Ring is weird. If you count only progress towards Ruling Ring, it's won once. If you count Blood Advancements as a Ring thing, Ring has won 3 times.
Now we get to my pet issue - Mage. Mage has only one major win, or two if you count Cut Through (I'm uncertain if I count it myself) but it also has three partial wins (where the thread's votes had some measure of preparation to get a Mage option). Compared to the other big competitors, it's actually not very disadvantaged - if you count those three partial victories as a single real victory, it's even with rank and only 1-2 wins behind sword!
Anyway, this has given me some perspective - pretty much nothing in this quest has a lot of wins aside from physical stats and SAVE gang. That makes mage gang's constant losses more palatable, the others honestly aren't far ahead of us.
Anyway, GAH that took a lot of effort. And only 1136 Words? I've written reactions posts nearly twice that long that didn't take nearly as much out of me! It's the constant having to cross-reference and re-read much of the quest that did it. Counting up the wins was also not very easy. Oh well, maybe people will find this helpful for analysis? Or just interesting. Uuuuuuugh I'll catch up on the thread later.
I'm counting "Major build votes" as any vote where we had the opportunity to spend 2+ picks or spent 7+ Arete with one or no picks.
The Pre-Temple Era
Build Vote 1: Dragon-Jackal aftermath, updates Heart of the Matter/Heart Vote 1:
Competitors:
Auspicious Vanguard (Balanced)
Nightmare Praetor (Social/Mental stats)
Force Unto (Physical stats)
Unshattered (Everything)
Winner: Social/Mental stats (Nightmare Praetor)
Build Vote 2: Pirate Raid aftermath, updates Evening Sky/Fisher King/Praehihr
Competitors:
El Stats (Physical stats, long-term scaling)
Lord Reaper (Sword)
Star-Cloaked Shroud (Social stats, Protection)
A Curse, Deferred (Physical stats, Curse Mitigation)
Winner: Social stats, Protection, (Star-Cloaked Shroud) - This is arguably a partial Mage win, because King of Thieves, which would have blocked Mage builds permanently, got eliminated, and Evening Sky got picked, which is our best artifact for sourcing mage options.
Build Vote 3: Ber Attack aftermath, update Age and Treachery
Competitors: This one is hard to determine the main competitors for as there was no consolidation vote. I'm just going to skip to the winners.
Winner: Rank and Physical stats (Age and Trechery and Amaranth Star)
Build Vote 4: The Hunt for Healing, update Hunter Hunted
Competitors: This build vote was all healing focused, but I think I can get something out of it.
Pristine Star (Saving Arete)
Shine Bright (Ally focus)
Second Stage (Survival focus)
Undying Vanguard (physical stats, Ally focus)
Pitiless Maw (Survival focus, Sword)
Winner: Survival, Save (Second Stage and Pristine Star).
The Temple of the False Moon Era
Build Vote 5: On the way to the Temple, updates A Moment's Reprieve/A Far Bastion
Competitors:
Immortal Regiment (Physical Stats, Ally focus)
Murderer's Panoply (Sword, Physical Stats)
Bright Vanquisher (Physcial Stats, Form of Rage lol)
The Barest Cut (Sword, Saving Arete)
The Forbidden (Sword, Physical Stats, Protection)
Winner: Physical Stats, Form of Rage (Bright Vanquisher)
Build Vote 6: The Craven Knight aftermath, update War and Wind
Competitors:
Brute Force (Physical Stats, Saving Arete)
Peerless Shroud (Protection)
Slayer Knell (???, Save)
Swift as Death (Second-form focused, Physical stats?)
Winner: Physical Stats, Save (Brute Force)
Build Vote 7: The Giant Wurm aftermath, updates Winnowing Garden/Cutting Through
Competitors:
Dreadnought (Physical Stats, Mage)
Apex (Physical Stats, Saving Arete, Rank)
Strong Sword-Arm (Sword, Physical Stats)
Root and Branch (Physical Stats, long-term scaling)
Winner: Physical Stats, Save, Rank, (Apex) - Arguably a partial victory for Mage as well, as Apex won somewhat as a compromise option for those that wanted a magic system but didn't want to lose an eye to Rune King.
Build Vote 8: The Magus aftermath, update The Ritual Grounds
Competitors:
Bloodmight (Ring, compromise/balance option)
Full Might (Sword, Protection, Ally focus)
Blademight (Sword, Curse Mitigation)
Mage Lord (Mage, Mental stats sort of)
Fisher King (Mage, Garden, long-term scaling)
Winner: Ring, Compromise (Bloodmight)
Build Vote 9: Outriders aftermath, updates Fending Off/Meditations on the Sword
Competitors:
Star-Blade Saint (Sword, Ally focus, arguably mage a little?)
Bloodslayer (Physcial stats, Blood Advancement, Sword)
Balance (Sword, Saving Arete, physical stats)
Heedless War (Ring, long-term scaling via shooting for vast Ruling Ring)
Winner: Physical Stats, Blood Advancement, Sword (Bloodslayer)
Build Vote 10: Vanreir, update Sky Above Sky
Competitors:
Uttermost (Sword)
Stranglethorn (Physical Stats)
Kinslayer (Rank)
Inheritor: Librarian (Mage, Mental stats)
Inheritor: Unerring (Physical stats, Sword, arguably mage kind of?)
Winner: Sword (Uttermost)
The Vacation Era
The Big thing here is Cut Through, which did not come from a build vote. I'm counting Cut Through as a win for the entire thread as a whole, rather then any one specific faction. It could also be argued to be a Sword Win, a Mage win, or both. There are three other build votes to go through though.
Build Vote 11: Prime Rotspawn aftermath, update Accursed Implement
Competitors:
The King Stands Alone (Praxis, Sword, Physical stats)
Ruinous Valor (Sword, Saving Arete)
Prime (Rank, Saving Arete)
Winner: Sword, Saving Arete (Ruinous Valor) - this could be argued to be a minor mage victory as well, due to a factor in Ruinous Valor winning being freeing up a hand to use for Surgecraft and saving Arete for Imaginary Elements.
Build Vote 12: Imaginary Element, update Vertiginous Heights
Competitors: Mage, hybrid Mage/Evening Sky, and Mage.
Winner: Mage
Build Vote 13: Letrizia Element Awakening, update Scarlet Legion
Competitors:
Philisopher's Wreath (Mage, Mental Stats)
Ennobling (Ally focus)
2x Vigor Itself (Physical stats, social stats, Blood Advancement, Saving Arete)
Winner: Physical stats, social stats, Blood Advancement, Save (2x Vigor Itself)
Final Stats
Physical Stats has the most wins at 6. Then again, physical stats get offered in some form every single vote, while other things show up less often; furthermore, physical stats often come packaged alongside other things. So it's understandable they'd end up with more wins! Save is in second place with 5 wins, while Sword has only 3 wins (4 if you count Cut Through), which is less then I expected. Two of the biggest recent votes (Outriders and Vanreir) went Sword though, which may be why I was overestimating them. Social has 3 wins, but they've all been relatively minor wins with the social being half or less of the winning option's effect. Rank has only won 2 major build votes. The real loser is mental stats, which have only won once at the very beginning! Ring is weird. If you count only progress towards Ruling Ring, it's won once. If you count Blood Advancements as a Ring thing, Ring has won 3 times.
Now we get to my pet issue - Mage. Mage has only one major win, or two if you count Cut Through (I'm uncertain if I count it myself) but it also has three partial wins (where the thread's votes had some measure of preparation to get a Mage option). Compared to the other big competitors, it's actually not very disadvantaged - if you count those three partial victories as a single real victory, it's even with rank and only 1-2 wins behind sword!
Anyway, this has given me some perspective - pretty much nothing in this quest has a lot of wins aside from physical stats and SAVE gang. That makes mage gang's constant losses more palatable, the others honestly aren't far ahead of us.
Anyway, GAH that took a lot of effort. And only 1136 Words? I've written reactions posts nearly twice that long that didn't take nearly as much out of me! It's the constant having to cross-reference and re-read much of the quest that did it. Counting up the wins was also not very easy. Oh well, maybe people will find this helpful for analysis? Or just interesting. Uuuuuuugh I'll catch up on the thread later.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I think the hope is to find out some info about the direct Ring guardians and whether an insurmountable gap seems to exist. If we're brought before Mr. Head Honcho and he has power unto a god, we can hope to fall in or flee.
ClawClawBite
Mad Engineering!
- Location
- Seattle, WA
[X] +1 pick below
[X] Edeldross Adept
Dipping into stealth does not seem to be the direction of our past growth, and I don't think we are going to invest strongly in it in the future. I expect higher level opponents to start having conceptual awareness on occasion that we will not be building to avoid.
[X] Edeldross Adept
Dipping into stealth does not seem to be the direction of our past growth, and I don't think we are going to invest strongly in it in the future. I expect higher level opponents to start having conceptual awareness on occasion that we will not be building to avoid.
Genesys
(Discrete Mokona)
- Location
- California
[X] Edeldross Adept
[X] +1 pick below
don't have a strong opinion on all-blade vs balanced, slight lean balance though it may change in a couple days
also mathing it out tier split currently on patreon is 1/4/17/1/0 so 4th tier bonii is 1 Arete, 1 reroll/favor, 10% boost to generation at this point
reasonable likelihood of generating another 7-8 Arete in 3 updates, so it really is a question of Blade focus vs balance here, yeah
since we probably will not pick up the picks for Ring anytime soon
[X] +1 pick below
don't have a strong opinion on all-blade vs balanced, slight lean balance though it may change in a couple days
also mathing it out tier split currently on patreon is 1/4/17/1/0 so 4th tier bonii is 1 Arete, 1 reroll/favor, 10% boost to generation at this point
reasonable likelihood of generating another 7-8 Arete in 3 updates, so it really is a question of Blade focus vs balance here, yeah
since we probably will not pick up the picks for Ring anytime soon
Rihaku
The Internet
What you see on Patreon is actually not the total amount pledged, but the result of some Patreon algos that factor in % of declined cards, credit card fees and their own fees. Also, there are patron(s) who have generously donated more than the tier amount!
- Location
- Pindorama
I don't know why you decided to make this atempt at self-flagellation but I'm glad it helped you find at least some peace.
But the great part of Shadowlord is that we'd gain stealth just by investing in the Evening Sky, something that helps us in combat anyway! Don't worry about conceptual trumps, we have Rank for that! More would be helpful, but it always would be, really, so don't let that discourage you!
You're probably right! Just once, it'd be nice to scale a skill tree and not find another juicy fruit of advancement dangling just out of reach. To rest on our laurels, happy with what we've accomplished. But just as there's always a sky above the sky, there's always aI wouldn't be surprised if there is a 7-arete advancement locked behind both complete Vigor and Quickening.
Anyway, the index has been updated again, ping me if you think something's missing. Both options are cool and whatever wins, I'm looking forward to learning more about the Inner Residents before we inevitably commence wrecking their shit. Hopefully others are in the same boat, so we can minimize salt. In a sense, Edeldross Adept is also an Evening Sky upgrade, so members of the Sky Syndicate have a consolation prize if Shadowlord loses. It would be nice to interact with someone new... probably not a good sign if I'm so starved for Hunger social actions that talking to the introverted mercenary's appealing.
Last edited:
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
If we're going adept if we don't get forced to use arete we should definitely rush either the ring or the pillars.
If we go all in on it we can go from 16 ish to 25 ish arete in one update, as we proved with Cut Through.
Which makes this a practical question:
@Rihaku: how long until the next new moon?
If we go all in on it we can go from 16 ish to 25 ish arete in one update, as we proved with Cut Through.
Which makes this a practical question:
@Rihaku: how long until the next new moon?
Last edited:
ImperatorV
The Laughing One
- Location
- The Voyaging Realm
I don't think Self-flagellation is the right word? I was just curious to see how much mage-builds lost compared to others. A lot, as I expected, but what I didn't expect is that other build types don't win much more often then us. We're still firmly in the back, but as it turns out the middle isn't that far ahead (1-2 wins at most) and some build-types (rank, social, and mental) are just as bad off as we are!
Also, physical stats being a frontrunner I expected, but SAVE being so prominent I did not. Who knew SAVE gang were secretly the most consistently victorious faction the whole time?
Anyway, self-flagellation implies I did this to hurt myself, which isn't really correct? It was more curiosity. My spine does hurt a bit from poring over the screen, but that's the price you pay for knowledge! Learning things is important.
Last edited:
I had this question, and received some answers.
IIRC, it is basically almost upon us. We had spent something like two weeks on the temple and vacation, and from the point of us arriving at the temple for the first time, the end of lunar month was 16 days away.
At this point, I am shooting for the pillars. Just get a week of temple+ grade training and power up with long-term buffs. That'll sort us out, and leave us with a progression-oriented EFB on our hands, too.
Last edited: