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A Simple Transaction I

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I find it so appropriate that in-character, Hunger gets a truly insane windfall of Arete within days of taking a break from the Temple. As if dueling with Vanreir forced him to finally take his own advice and seek inner renewal. I guess a mirror-match will do that to you, all the introspection in the world can't match up to mortality by proxy.

The sheer scope of it though! I have to question if the False Moon quest hasn't been stunting his spirit in some way. Like the Call and the Ring's imprisonment are just reflections of the kind of duty he's always saddled with. There's the moral obligation to free it, but he's no will or investment of his own. He's just the sword, abducted to serve once more.

Maybe he could use some of that time among the people...

[X] Market Day [2 Arete]
[X] Surgecraft
 
Ez Pz vote swap, thanks for the heads up, Rihaku.

[X] Pursuing Technological Solutions
[X] Relaxing at the Hot Springs
[X] Vertex

Antimage, *but she has a gun* seems like a pretty unkind build to, lemme do a quick headcount, about 3/4 of the enemies we've faced. I don't think Quickdraw Gisena would have been a great matchup for the Wurm or the Jackal-Dragon, due to sheer mass vs a handgun, nor would it have so much as bothered the King of Fish. Everyone else gets wrecked, though!

It's strictly inferior to Bloodwraith in terms of direct combat power, but it is cheaper, and we've got an 18 arete powerup coming down the pipe. Help, I'm feeling confident!
 
[X] Studying the Blade
[X] Bloodwraith [2 Arete]
[X] Surgecraft

Sorry, Letrizia, the opportunity to patch one of the gaping wounds in our otherwise synergistic build is just too valuable. Vigor Itself & Fierce Quickening have amazing value : pick ratios, but currently they apply only to our human form. We've taken two so far, but since they're great and cost no Arete we're probably going to snag the full six. But with every blooded advancement we select, the gap between our two forms grows wider. Going ghost's already little more than a footnote to our build; anything that kills Hunger's flesh form is going to be totally unimpressed by it. See Hunger's thoughts versus Vanreir:
Rihaku said:
He would let the man kill his flesh body, and hope that the surprise of his ghost form's emergence outweighed its now-lacking strength and speed. It was perhaps a vain hope. For the entirety of this battle Hunger had not landed a single physical blow upon this opponent.
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That was one VI & FQ ago, so it's worse now. Second Stage is a misnomer at this point, an ungainly tumor protruding from our build that needs to be reconciled into a coherent whole or excised. Bloodwraith is a convenient opportunity to do the former. It isn't going to keep us from Cut Through, not at the rate we're accruing Arete. But it may keep us alive when the deeper challenges of the Inner Temple come knocking. We'll make it up to Letrizia later, it's not like Verschlengorge isn't a willing donor. A Tyrant proc with real but manageable consequences is in some sense more reassuring than a Curse continuing to cause us zero problems, right up until it inevitably shoots us in the kneecap.
 
Prospalz said:
We have no definitive statements on both of these magical systems in terms of how valuable they are while piloting.

This makes me somewhat paranoid. This stuff actually being not-useless when Letrz is inside of Versh is, yeah, kind of a really big factor.
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Speculation: Surgecraft is viable with Verschlengorge if Totality systems are online. The two are metaphysically one being, so Verschlengorge should have the ability to manifest an imaginary element. Vertex seems more likely to be something stuck independent of Verschlengorge for better or worse.
 
Rihaku said:
And, while Surgecraft can be extremely powerful when circumstance is in its favor, that same variability is a source of unreliability. Whether that's a critical weakness or not depends on your Element...
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'circumstance is in its favor' sounds like 'easy bait for the Apocryphal curse to target' in my head.

Still not sure that actually matters as far as increasing overall danger, but I'm expecting it to be periodically useless at dramatically inconvenient times.
LordOfMurder said:
Hunger's only doing it because the Tyrant's doom stops him from realizing she'd have a problem with it though.
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I suspect the effect of the Doom is more like making him not care that she'd have a problem.

[X] Studying the Blade
[X] Relaxing at the Hot Springs
[X] Vertex

I'm not entirely excited by risking further injuries, but I'm also leery of spending an extra day on this side trip as well.

And as useful as bloodwraith would be, I'd rather keep the second form as a wakeup to Hunger to stop being stupid and leave. Bringing it back into combat useful state just means he'll be dieing 4 times a week again, and dancing closer and closer to complete destruction.

Plus, he's more vampire like if his non-solid form is for retreating and recuperation, so there's that.
 
Let me do an unoriginal meme on my phone real quick.

The Temple:
[xxxxxx]

The Temple if Gisena had a gun:
(x=freeing the ring, y=taking the gun from
Gisena)
[xxyyyyyyyyyyyyy]
 
Sharkey_smt said:
50k words omake power. Everyone breaking reserves and trying to write something. Artist posting multiple interesting pictures. Everyone gives their all to get the SORD Praxis equivalent.
...
Slice fate gang: Yep, this is totally sustainable and we should have spent 7 arete on a reroll that in our deluded minds is somehow equal to EFB that has infinite potential.
Verdict: Slice fate gang is delusional.
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No need to get rude. We got 6.3 Arete in two updates without huge omake storm, which would be enough to buy Praxis before going back to the Temple if we accept 1 Arete debt. And if the last update didn't count as a major one, which seems likely, then we are still at 50k words omake power, which means omakes generate more Arete per word than at the lower level. Taking all that into account, I do think that getting 7 Arete before we return to the Temple is quite likely. Even doing it in just one update is possible.
 
Conjured Blade said:
From a tactical standpoint I realized something. Pillars of Creation may split the vote, minimizing the odds of Cut Through winning at the next pick if by some miracle we reach 25 Arete and have both as options. Is that worth it?
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We always need more arete, what are you talking about.

Forced memory aside, Praxis has been a mysterious light in the distance, ultimate mystery box for literal years. That, and there is sunken cost with Uttermost, and 50k worth of sweat and tears in Cut Through.

There is about zero chances of it not winning that context, should be actually get 25 arete somehow.

So, clearly, the only path is to get 50.
Conjured Blade said:
Speculation: Surgecraft is viable with Verschlengorge if Totality systems are online. The two are metaphysically one being, so Verschlengorge should have the ability to manifest an imaginary element. Vertex seems more likely to be something stuck independent of Verschlengorge for better or worse.
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Sounds about right. Although Vertex do not innately conflict with Versch, I think? And If Letrz could use Versch's rank to craft Armament-grade vertexes, they could be relevant too. I wonder if it is possible, though.
 
For dirty suboptimal aesthetic reasons, having a weak and fragile shadow form is super appropriate for a Dark Lord, which I prefer to the RPG-Boss look.

From another look, it's our out-of-combat healing option from before we had Blood, and it's ok to let it go by the wayside. We don't want Hunger to kill himself all the time for tactical advantage. (R-Right?)

Not to downsell the stats of Bloodwraith! 2x HP and more use of phasing is absolutely R A D, and a very strong upgrade for only 2 arete. Letrizia could weather the - - and still be a good friend, more so if we took Technological Solutions by way of apology.

Perhaps I'm being cocky, but I think the immediate benefits of the hybrid Cut Through will be sufficient for now, or at least put us in a good position to grind up the picks we need in relative safety. I feel that we can get by without Bloodwraith, and I'd like to do so if possible.
 
Prospalz said:
Sounds about right. Although Vertex do not innately conflict with Versch, I think? And If Letrz could use Versch's rank to craft Armament-grade vertexes, they could be relevant too. I wonder if it is possible, though.
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I don't think they inherently conflict either, I just think that the capacity for independent action of the vertexes means they aren't well hooked into the Totality system if they are at all.
 
If Cut Through doesn't require picks to take can't we just take both of the social + options instead? Healing our conditions and buffing Gisena and Versch at the same time sounds pretty good!
 
Tech is better than I was originally thinking since it offers Gisena relevant punch on the right opponents even in the inner layer, so I think it's potentially better than blade. Or at least if a 1 pick blade or complication was rolled. The main downside is without mercenary income I'm not sure how we're affording this. Maybe there's a stash of barter in Verschle for such situations? Either way splurging on gadgets would be out.
 
I'd be willing to swap to Technological Solutions to mitigate the damage to the relationship, it just seems anti-synergistic to repair Verschlengorge along one axis and nerf him on another. With the power Hunger tears from the Temple's clutches, though, there's no doubt that we can heal him back up to greater heights with an investment of actions or Arete. Remember that reduced Rank is also indirectly safer for Letrizia in our absence, since he won't draw monsters of the same tier.

She's great and all, but we shouldn't spare her feelings if it means torpedoing our chances for the Temple, she can't contribute at all inside. Just because we're on the brink of an EFB-equivalent doesn't mean we've got the place in the bag, Vanreir blew our expectations out of the water. There may be full-grown Fairbrights in the Inner Ring, to say nothing of the final guardian hinted at in Impunity. Confident, cocky, lazy, dead.

But with a relevant Second Stage, death isn't necessarily the end!
 
Far as I remember, Cut Through basically turns all our auto attacks into comparable Ultimates, much like how Vanreir's did.

[X] Studying the Blade
[X] Relaxing at the Hot Springs
[X] Vertex
 
agumentic said:
No need to get rude. We got 6.3 Arete in two updates without huge omake storm, which would be enough to buy Praxis before going back to the Temple if we accept 1 Arete debt. And if the last update didn't count as a major one, which seems likely, then we are still at 50k words omake power, which means omakes generate more Arete per word than at the lower level. Taking all that into account, I do think that getting 7 Arete before we return to the Temple is quite likely. Even doing it in just one update is possible.
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I edited it. My apologies, the noun that I used was too drastic.

I am not familiar with the Omake generation power interest so I am not sure I can comment on it. We did not know how much arete we will generate so spending 7 on slice without knowing if we would have enough before returning to the Temple is a major risk. Also we do not have control on the rerolls so its utility is not that great. Hindsight is 20/20 but due to Apocryphal curse we will always scramble for power in the immediate situation and not think much about the future.
 
Fumbles said:
For dirty suboptimal aesthetic reasons, having a weak and fragile shadow form is super appropriate for a Dark Lord, which I prefer to the RPG-Boss look.

From another look, it's our out-of-combat healing option from before we had Blood, and it's ok to let it go by the wayside. We don't want Hunger to kill himself all the time for tactical advantage. (R-Right?)

Not to downsell the stats of Bloodwraith! 2x HP and more use of phasing is absolutely R A D, and a very strong upgrade for only 2 arete. Letrizia could weather the - - and still be a good friend, more so if we took Technological Solutions by way of apology.

Perhaps I'm being cocky, but I think the immediate benefits of the hybrid Cut Through will be sufficient for now, or at least put us in a good position to grind up the picks we need in relative safety. I feel that we can get by without Bloodwraith, and I'd like to do so if possible.
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I agree. This pushes our aesthethics more towards something akin to an Tolken vampire dark lord, rather than towards an RPG-boss. Also, having an second form that's midly faster is lame, and i doubt that we could get an major upgrade to our second form any time soon. I prefer to think of it as an mere sliver of Hunger's self once he expires. It's also something that only cost 2 arete, so it's not like it's a gaping inefficient hole either.
 
[X] Pursuing Technological Solutions
[X] Relaxing at the Hot Springs
[X] Vertex
ok so we don't need picks
alright double social is fine too
not giving up hot springs though that's kinda the main aesthetic of this entire place
I might be convinced to swap to market I suppose, since money is nice for vertex
 
LordOfMurder said:
If Cut Through doesn't require picks to take can't we just take both of the social + options instead? Healing our conditions and buffing Gisena and Versch at the same time sounds pretty good!
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If we get a thread participation bonus pick, we quite likely could get a 3-pick option from Elite or Prime Rotspawn. Something complimentary like Ruinous Valour would be a major upgrade to Cut Through. Other possibilities, likewise. The bottom line, Eveningang was a pretty strong last vote.

This is all "could be, maybe" of course, idk if this is worth relying upon when we are making our action plans.

If we actually get just two picks, yeah, that is somewhat weaksause unless we also pick up Vertex, for that money synergy. I don't recall any 2 pick options that could make a particularly major impact on our build right now.
 
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Current vote count?

Prospalz said:
@Rihaku does Vertex require any material to be crafted, or they are pure energy constructs?
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The stronger ones might.

ImperatorV said:
Agree, we don't want even more complications, and 0.5 Arete is not going to make or break any plans. People seem to be leaning Vertex anyway, which does not require large immediate Arete expenditures.

On an unrelated note, I find myself interested in what a 25 Arete element would even be. It's been stated to offer immense power and scaling, with the 25 point version also being extremely broad. Some kind of "omni-material" element that can do literally anything? Maybe 25-Arete Surgecraft is Unobtainium Bending. Too bad the thread would never go for that, it would be pretty cool. It'll join the ever-growing list of "Cool things the thread couldn't afford to buy in Rihaku quests."
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7-Arete Surge + Mastery: Remilia Scarlet, Sakuya Izayoi
25-Arete Surge + Mastery: Yukari Yakumo
 
Orm Embar said:
She's great and all, but we shouldn't spare her feelings if it means torpedoing our chances for the Temple, she can't contribute at all inside. Just because we're on the brink of an EFB-equivalent doesn't mean we've got the place in the bag, Vanreir blew our expectations out of the water. There may be full-grown Fairbrights in the Inner Ring, to say nothing of the final guardian hinted at in Impunity. Confident, cocky, lazy, dead.
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It's possible that pissing her off before we try to wake her Surgecraft will improve its development. Nothing compels powerful emotion quite like the sudden onset of irrelevance.
 
Rihaku said:
The stronger ones might
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So we could potentially use something like Armament blood to scale them up to the high-rank relevant effects, at very worst. This is good.
7-Arete Surge + Mastery: Remilia Scarlet, Sakuya Izayoi
25-Arete Surge + Mastery: Yukari Yakumo
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For those unfamiliar with 2hu; Fate (Probability?) Manipulation and Time stop at 7, broad spectrum reality warping at 25.

Do note that "Mastery" tag, these are not right off the bat effects that Surge could have, but potential peaks of power if mastered.
 
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