LordOfMurder
Bhaal
- Location
- Australia
Just make shitty memes in mspaint!
A Simple Transaction I
- Thread starter Rihaku
- Start date
- Original
Maragas
Nothing to see here.
- Location
- Tree House
Yeah that's a big no from me, at least that reasoning. Gaining relationship points and using them as ablative armor is like saying "I got along with you to lessen the impact of the thing I planned to do.". Maybe it's just me but I don't like looking things only mechanically in quests.
Lealope
Not yet invincible
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Uh... guys? Y'know, we don't actually have to use Vertex, right? We can just buff Letrizia's INT with a bunch of Blood Enhancements and get her to make some low tier ones for us. Alternatively, we can just kill a bunch of spawn, prove we're strong enough to take on the Rotbeast and have them load us up with a million buffs for our Evening Sky. After that, we could spend the picks and Arete generated on Opalescene and Iridescence to make sure we don't lose them when Gisena fires a Tide.
That would provide a shitload of immediate power with no serious investment on our part, saving lots and lots of our potential for either the Ring, Pearlesence or whatever else you want.
That would provide a shitload of immediate power with no serious investment on our part, saving lots and lots of our potential for either the Ring, Pearlesence or whatever else you want.
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LordOfMurder
Bhaal
- Location
- Australia
We can boost encounter rates by targeting a specific type of rotbeast so the roll matters less.
This is a great idea! Get her to use all her free time crafting while we're finishing the temple!
I see it more like the relationship is strong enough to not disintegrate over a disagreement. Stridently avoiding any option that would mechanically come with a minus feels more mechanical and unnatural to actual interactions to me.
LordOfMurder
Bhaal
- Location
- Australia
Hunger's only doing it because the Tyrant's doom stops him from realizing she'd have a problem with it though.
Projectile
Thinking of Rabbits
- Location
- USA
[X] Relaxing at the Hot Springs
[X] Studying the Blade
[X] Vertex
Doom+Power+Emotional Activation-Control=Uh
Surgecraft Tyrant, nice city you had there. That'll teach 'em to bug me about laws. *PTSD intensifies*
Might be paranoia, but I just got told not to underestimate Tyrant, so.
[X] Studying the Blade
[X] Vertex
Doom+Power+Emotional Activation-Control=Uh
Surgecraft Tyrant, nice city you had there. That'll teach 'em to bug me about laws. *PTSD intensifies*
Might be paranoia, but I just got told not to underestimate Tyrant, so.
ImperatorV
The Laughing One
- Location
- The Voyaging Realm
So, let's talk magic systems for a second.
We're getting Swrod Praxis. Praxis is explicitly good at killing stuff and protecting stuff. Sowd Praxis is likely to be even more specialized in the killing stuff direction because it's specific to srods, especially early on when we don't have access to wonky conceptual effects yet.
As such, what we need most out of a magic system is "everything except offense." Surgecraft seems to be very offensively-focused unless we get a high cost element. As such, I think we either want Vertex or a 7-Arete element.
It's not implausible for us to be able to afford Cut Through and another 7-Arete option, such as a Surgecraft element, within two updates or so. We might need some more fanwork to do it though. I'll see what I can contribute tomorrow, but keep in mind if you want Surgecraft we really want to be spending 7 Arete on it, otherwise it may end up redundant with our Sording.
Vertex is less costly, because we can get access with picks. It also covers our versatility niche very well. People are complaining about Nullity, but honestly making it immune to nullity is likely to cost the same as or less then a 7-Arete element. And we can buy the Nullity Immunity later, so it avoid creating an Arete crunch now.
Also, Vertex explicitly has something going on with Evening Sky, so we can likely get Evening Sky advancements, either Arete or picks, that boost Vertex. Due to this, I think Vertex may scale better in the long run then Surgecraft.
We're getting Swrod Praxis. Praxis is explicitly good at killing stuff and protecting stuff. Sowd Praxis is likely to be even more specialized in the killing stuff direction because it's specific to srods, especially early on when we don't have access to wonky conceptual effects yet.
As such, what we need most out of a magic system is "everything except offense." Surgecraft seems to be very offensively-focused unless we get a high cost element. As such, I think we either want Vertex or a 7-Arete element.
It's not implausible for us to be able to afford Cut Through and another 7-Arete option, such as a Surgecraft element, within two updates or so. We might need some more fanwork to do it though. I'll see what I can contribute tomorrow, but keep in mind if you want Surgecraft we really want to be spending 7 Arete on it, otherwise it may end up redundant with our Sording.
Vertex is less costly, because we can get access with picks. It also covers our versatility niche very well. People are complaining about Nullity, but honestly making it immune to nullity is likely to cost the same as or less then a 7-Arete element. And we can buy the Nullity Immunity later, so it avoid creating an Arete crunch now.
Also, Vertex explicitly has something going on with Evening Sky, so we can likely get Evening Sky advancements, either Arete or picks, that boost Vertex. Due to this, I think Vertex may scale better in the long run then Surgecraft.
Tyrant is at this point an inedible facet of his personality though.
Maragas
Nothing to see here.
- Location
- Tree House
Maybe some -s will be over disagreements but Bloodwraith option isn't simple disagreement. It's straight up a hurtful action made by Hunger, thanks to the Tyrant curse.
Because of that even as a fervent supporter of Bloodslayer I can't support Bloodwraith here.
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- Location
- Canada
This would allow us to pick Cut Through next update, it also come with a 15% chance of one more complication... We can reduce that chance through discussion and omakes, though.
Upgrade Verschlengorge and Gisena and get relation +s. Would be a must pick if not for the fact that it spent one more of our precious Apocryphal free day... As is, it's still tempting.
Increase the chances of healing our conditions, which is very important, get +Gisena and unlock Pillars of Creation. It's nice.
This is incredibly powerful but the --Letrizia hurt my soul. The debuff to Verschlengorge is pretty bad too, for that matter. It also cost 2 Arete and I don't think it's fair to ask even more from our Omake creators at this point.
Getting a Vigor Itself for 2 Arete and one of our two actions... I don't think that's a good deal right now even with the benefit to planing around the Doom of the Tyrant in the future.
This is, by far, the most versatile choice, unless we spend a lot of Arete on our Surgecraft element. We'd need to spend some picks on actually getting initiated into it, it's demanding and time-consuming and does not have the raw power of Surgecraft, so I understand why people prefer Surgecraft, but we need that versatility, I think.
Really powerful but it's extremely one-dimensional, as I doubt we'd actually want to spend the Arete necessary to get Hunger a high quality element.
So, for now, let's go for this:
[X] Studying the Blade
[X] Relaxing at the Hot Springs
[X] Vertex
- Location
- Brazil
Unless i'm mistaken, this means that we need at the very least to spend the arete towards being able to acess the art. But regardless, apart from the initial cost, it seems to be an very arete efficient magic system.
Well, we need to be initiated to benefit from the passive buffs/control them. But yeah, I don't see a need to spend the cost to get initiated right away unless we're able to buy some really useful ones. She can always do so later when a more significant stockpile of effects is built up.
The disagreement is whether or not he had the right to use the blood here unilaterally, many disagreements involve hurt feelings. Anyway this basically circles round to my point about kryptonite, it makes her sad so needs to be avoided. Going against that sentiment is like going against the tide.
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
The Tide
It's an old rule that power begets power. And when Progression Cursebearers are involved that rule doesn't even come close to doing what comes next justice. The growth curve of a progression cursebearer is often closer to vertical than anything more reasonable. Which is why the first few moments with a new power are generally the most hilarious and amusing - once they have it any longer they are going to be good enough with it to make most mortals cry at the sheer absurdity.
And so we make note of Hunger's first real use of Surgecraft. Hunger doesn't learn faster than an intelligent mortal, most of the time. So he wasn't very quick to grasp the basics. (Gisena had, annoyingly, already figured it out within the first few minutes. Apparently it is surprisingly easy to use for the Findross wielder). And then a Rotspawn broke in. Which was completely ridiculous. How a rotspawn managed to even get into the city to begin with... Still, there Hunger was, frustrated by his lack of talent, with a rotspawn he could have batted away with the Forebear's sword without even noticing trying to be menacing. So... he just kinda lost it. For a moment the world was still. Silence consumed all that was. And then that moment was over. And the world was Bright and Loud. Power begets power. And when you give a cursebearer a power that is hard to control and put them up against an annoying enemy while already frustrated? Hunger didn't really mean to unleash enough power to wipe away the city. But he did. It was fortunate that all of the elements he could have had he would end up with a form of Purity. It didn't really fit him at all, and yet it fit who he should have been perfectly. Perhaps it was just a bit of Destiny still clinging to him, after all this time, that even now, after taking up the Curses he would run across a bit of power that acts to oppose corruption... and make it part of himself without even realizing he was doing so.
No one is entirely sure how many rotspawn got destroyed by that event, given everything for miles was Purified. Hunger was too saddened by it to have really noticed. After all, if he had had this power earlier... If he had been able to fight the Tyrant with this... could he have won without sacrificing everyone he loved? Could things have gone differently? The thoughts only lasted moments, Hunger used to the occasional moments of painful introspection, but they would be tied to this new power of his forever. Ad with every use the universe would be just a little bit better. And with every use he got just a bit closer to having back those who he lost.
It's an old rule that power begets power. And when Progression Cursebearers are involved that rule doesn't even come close to doing what comes next justice. The growth curve of a progression cursebearer is often closer to vertical than anything more reasonable. Which is why the first few moments with a new power are generally the most hilarious and amusing - once they have it any longer they are going to be good enough with it to make most mortals cry at the sheer absurdity.
And so we make note of Hunger's first real use of Surgecraft. Hunger doesn't learn faster than an intelligent mortal, most of the time. So he wasn't very quick to grasp the basics. (Gisena had, annoyingly, already figured it out within the first few minutes. Apparently it is surprisingly easy to use for the Findross wielder). And then a Rotspawn broke in. Which was completely ridiculous. How a rotspawn managed to even get into the city to begin with... Still, there Hunger was, frustrated by his lack of talent, with a rotspawn he could have batted away with the Forebear's sword without even noticing trying to be menacing. So... he just kinda lost it. For a moment the world was still. Silence consumed all that was. And then that moment was over. And the world was Bright and Loud. Power begets power. And when you give a cursebearer a power that is hard to control and put them up against an annoying enemy while already frustrated? Hunger didn't really mean to unleash enough power to wipe away the city. But he did. It was fortunate that all of the elements he could have had he would end up with a form of Purity. It didn't really fit him at all, and yet it fit who he should have been perfectly. Perhaps it was just a bit of Destiny still clinging to him, after all this time, that even now, after taking up the Curses he would run across a bit of power that acts to oppose corruption... and make it part of himself without even realizing he was doing so.
No one is entirely sure how many rotspawn got destroyed by that event, given everything for miles was Purified. Hunger was too saddened by it to have really noticed. After all, if he had had this power earlier... If he had been able to fight the Tyrant with this... could he have won without sacrificing everyone he loved? Could things have gone differently? The thoughts only lasted moments, Hunger used to the occasional moments of painful introspection, but they would be tied to this new power of his forever. Ad with every use the universe would be just a little bit better. And with every use he got just a bit closer to having back those who he lost.
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ImperatorV
The Laughing One
- Location
- The Voyaging Realm
So I just realized a few things about Vertex.
1) It manifests as a bunch of points of light floating around a person like a miniature solar system thing. That aesthetic is actually pretty cool, and would look great with Evening Sky.
2) You get the best Vertexes by sacrificing lifespan. We have lifespan regen as long a we sleep. Do the math. The focus on sacrifice may also hint as to possible similarities or synergies with Praxis.
1) It manifests as a bunch of points of light floating around a person like a miniature solar system thing. That aesthetic is actually pretty cool, and would look great with Evening Sky.
2) You get the best Vertexes by sacrificing lifespan. We have lifespan regen as long a we sleep. Do the math. The focus on sacrifice may also hint as to possible similarities or synergies with Praxis.
"Hey, this utility immediately transforms into absurd amounts of raw power if circumstances are right. It's kind of cool, right?"
"No. It is utility, not raw power."
Literally what. At least tell me about how sordgang and magegang would try to kill me, that would make some sense at least.
...Well, whatever, I am off to the reaction-mines. I'll be still voting for Cut Through, don't worry about it. Consider this a commitment as if I promised it to someone.
- Location
- Pindorama
If we want Letrizia to sit around and craft Vertices, that's better done without having a difficult moment just before. So I kind of don't want it if Bloodwraith wins.
Otherwise, the concept of having stars inside the Evening Sky providing us with power is very cool too. So I'll switch:
[X] Studying the Blade
[X] Pursuing Technological Solutions
[X] Vertex
I think that technological solutions is being seriously slept on. It improves the combat abilities of both our party members and improves our relationship with them. The upgrade to Gisena is especially relevant given we'll be taking on the Inner Temple; we need all the help we can get.
Otherwise, the concept of having stars inside the Evening Sky providing us with power is very cool too. So I'll switch:
[X] Studying the Blade
[X] Pursuing Technological Solutions
[X] Vertex
I think that technological solutions is being seriously slept on. It improves the combat abilities of both our party members and improves our relationship with them. The upgrade to Gisena is especially relevant given we'll be taking on the Inner Temple; we need all the help we can get.
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- Location
- Omniverse #1345
We can't easily bring Versch into the Temple with us, and we do not know what would happen if he broke in. Just that it would probably be... unpleasant.
So the amount of raw power this actually grants us is hard to know since what we need to worry about is the inside of the temple.
[x]Studying the Blade
[x]Relaxing at the Hot Springs
[x]Vertex
After looking through this I actually like Vertex and Hot Springs because it adds more use to the Evening Sky due to Pillars and Vertices being able to be stored in the cloak. While we have invested heavily into the Ring and Sword the Evening Sky has been largely ignored despite us having spent 7 arete getting it in the first place.
[x]Relaxing at the Hot Springs
[x]Vertex
After looking through this I actually like Vertex and Hot Springs because it adds more use to the Evening Sky due to Pillars and Vertices being able to be stored in the cloak. While we have invested heavily into the Ring and Sword the Evening Sky has been largely ignored despite us having spent 7 arete getting it in the first place.
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
I think the better chance of removing a condition in the Hotsprings is probably more useful for survival, since Gisena is ultimately a Nullity mage. While getting her better weapons would be nice it doesn't really improve her best shtick, and Hunger is likely still going to be better at killing anything not spitting out magic.
But I admit I'm biased because I want to unlock Pillars when we have a chance, since it is a long-term goal.
Strange9
hdellaverson@gmail.com
- Location
- Los Angeles, CA
Careful! A devourer like Versch might take that as a challenge, and if the artwork is an indication, Lord Hunger is quite the snacc.
Rihaku
The Internet
If you're okay with a noncombat Surge, then a 2-Arete narrow but useful Element is still something to consider. If you want Surgecraft to function as a close to 'full' magic system, that would probably take 25 Arete. Functioning as a reasonably versatile 'school' of one magic system would be 7 Arete. Of course, these costs are balanced with Surgecraft's incredible power and easy scaling in mind. When less than a year's study suffices to output enough energy to wipe out tank columns the system has different considerations than more typical magics. Still, something like a 7 Arete surge could come close to replicating some aspects of the Inheritor: Librarian pick - you'd get swift access to immediately relevant utility effects with fairly broad application, something that would require a lot of work to achieve with the Sword Praxis alone.
Poor Hunger, he never gets to interact with NPCs. Market Day offers such useful Tyrant experience, and yet has been almost entirely overlooked... not every danger is represented by mechanical value, guys!
Poor Hunger, he never gets to interact with NPCs. Market Day offers such useful Tyrant experience, and yet has been almost entirely overlooked... not every danger is represented by mechanical value, guys!
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
Oh wow, good point. This got me to change my vote, there.
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
The problem is it's just of such limited utility compared to survival. And it costs Arete for some reason!
We can practice later, after we finish the Temple. I'm sure Letrizia will understand we want to make a pitstop in a few small towns before we actually interact with anyone.