Zweihander says that all of our hand to hand attacks get the full power of the Forebear's Blade behind them. Does that mean that First Blade would make all of our punches have Thousand Cuts applied to them? Because if it does, I think the dream of the Muscle Wizard is not dead at all. Merely dreaming.
 
We'll pick up Dominion: War, then save up Arete for Preeminence and the Passion domain.

And we're in the enviable position where we can, for a while, save up for an EFB while still progressing well.

We very, very much want Ruinous Valor with this build, since making the Power of Ruin scale with our strength massively synergizes with Uttermost, and we need two hands anyway to use the full length sword - so that's a 3 Pick 0 Arete option on the docket anyway.

Rank boosts usually don't cost Arete, and they've all become 30% more powerful, so that's another avenue of Areteless advancement, if we fight foes worth Rank.

We've got a bunch of purchases of Fierce Quickening and Vigor Itself available to fill out any loose single picks, along with Augment Dominion: Blood - +0.25 Rank, even in fairly limited circumstances, is obscenely good for a 1 Pick 0 Arete option.

And, of course, we'll want to pick up Opalescence sometime. Uttermost reduces the value of +Protection, but resistance to Nullity for 2 Arete and our defenses automatically scaling to our level for 7 Arete remain fantastic options for further down the line.
 
Discussion is a bit slower today. So, let's talk about something we've historically struggled with: Planning.

With Uttermost winning, we now have immense striking power. At this stage, I think we need to stop investing in offense. It's already so high that we're only going to see marginal improvements from upgrading it further. This will continue to be the case until we start to encounter opponents against which Thousand Cuts on every single attack is insufficient. I believe it's going to be a very long time before we hit that point. The only offensive upgrade I think is worth considering is Ruinous Valor, for two reasons. First because Hunger has stated he needs the other arm back to make full use of his restored blade, and second because our strength is so high that Ruinous Valor provides a huge boost, enough to overcome the decreasingly marginal benefits of more offense. Other then Ruinous Valor, I think any offensive upgrades will provide low comparative utility, because we honestly don't need them.

Our durability and mobility are also very high thanks to Quickening and the various stat boosts we've picked up. Improvements in these areas are still valuable at the moment - there are likely some things in the Inner Temple that are faster then us, and since we dumped Form of Rage we don't have that safety net any more, and as such increased durability has higher marginal utility. Still, these areas are not where we are weak. They should be a lower priority then things we actually have a weak spot in.

Now, in terms of social ability we're in dire straights. We have the massive Charisma debuff from Uttermost, and can't mitigate Doom of the Tyrant ever. This is not a problem for short-term survival, but we're going to need to rule an empire eventually. We direly need some method of overcoming our social deficiencies. The only option we have to do so right now is "more stats," but more stats is suboptimal thanks to Uttermost penalizing Charisma gains. This is not a short term problem, however, so we don't need to fix it right away. However, we should keep an eye out, if something that provides a large social benefit that isn't penalized by our current build appears, we'll want to jump on it. Otherwise we can wait on fixing social until after the Temple of the False Moon is complete.

Our other big problem is Versatility. All the arguments I made last vote about how we need versatility still apply. At least with social we have some charisma and Gisena, for utility effects we've got Chief Dominion and that's it. Chief Dominion is good, don't get me wrong, but so far it only gives buffs and debuffs to living creatures, and healing. Those are great effects but they don't cover everything we could possibly need.

Now, anyone who knows me at all will expect for me to argue for a magic system here. And I am going to, because that would solve the utility problem, is awesome in general, provides an alternative method of scaling, and we can get cross-system synergies a la EFB. However... Looking at things completely objectively, there are alternatives to a new magic system. Ruling Ring would expand our Chief Dominion utility effects greatly, and while it wouldn't get everything I want out of a magic system, it would get us enough versatility to cover our needs in that category for a while. I utterly despise Null Slice for being "SORD solves everything," but in the long term it provides a variety of utility effects. Increased rank can substitute for versatility in a pinch (see immobilizing Vanreir in that fight). Rank does not solve our utility problem because using it like that is exhausting (see the Vanreir fight, again), but it at least somewhat patches the problem.


In conclusion,
We don't need more offense. We have Thousand Cuts on every attack. Don't take it unless it's Ruinous Valor or something really amazing and limited-time comes up.
We're pretty good on Agility and Durability, but could still use improvement there. Take this if there aren't more pressing options.
We really badly need something for social, but that's a long term problem. We can put it off until after the Temple of the False Moon, unless a really good solution that is limited-time comes up.
What we most badly need, and more immediately then social, is versatility. We should get this as fast as possible. My preferred choice would be a new magic system, but Ruling Ring can mostly solve the problem, and increased rank can provide a bandaid, at least. If ya'll take Null Slice I'm probably going to cry, but it will cover the issue in the long term.

This is a really good writeup, I think it summarizes the game state right now very well.

It helps that it calls for some things I was already wanting to do, but I can affirm I'll be mainly sticking to these guidelines.
#1 - easy ruinous valor to get our arm and max out our sword skill, there boom finished.
#2 - Arete dumps into ring to get us our ++progression win condition
#3 - real magic system to fill in the gaps of our quasi magic ring.
#4 - Work on a big social win condition to actually rule the realm

Hopefully some others will jump on board!
 
And after Valor we are free to get Stranglethorn for STR/WILL doubling and Rank boost.

So try and find 3-pick fight for Valor into 4-pick fight for Stranglethorn? Hopefully with minimal complications. This should also save us enough to get Preeminence at some point, or a stance so we can ensure we finish the temple.
 
Stranglethorn is obscene with Uttermost and Ruinous Valor. Double our strength, which scales our Power of Ruin, which applies sevenfold to every single one of our attacks. Take the Willpower bonus from Uttermost and double it to ++++++++++++++Willpower. Have a (1.3*1.2)=1.56 = 56% increase to the value of all +Rank choices.
 
Stranglethorn is obscene with Uttermost and Ruinous Valor. Double our strength, which scales our Power of Ruin, which applies sevenfold to every single one of our attacks. Take the Willpower bonus from Uttermost and double it to ++++++++++++++Willpower. Have a (1.3*1.2)=1.56 = 56% increase to the value of all +Rank choices.
Perhaps more importantly is its ability:

Establishment: By committing meaningful resources towards a given context, and staking out a solid position, you slowly but increasingly accrue power and influence within that context, becoming ever-more inescapable and impossible to dislodge.

I think this is how we actually rule the human sphere for the 800~ or so odd years we have to. I forget the exact time frame.
 
Perhaps more importantly is its ability:

Establishment: By committing meaningful resources towards a given context, and staking out a solid position, you slowly but increasingly accrue power and influence within that context, becoming ever-more inescapable and impossible to dislodge.

I think this is how we actually rule the human sphere for the 800~ or so odd years we have to. I forget the exact time frame.

We have 2500 years, within which we have to rule the human sphere for 50 years.
 
And after Valor we are free to get Stranglethorn for STR/WILL doubling and Rank boost.

So try and find 3-pick fight for Valor into 4-pick fight for Stranglethorn? Hopefully with minimal complications. This should also save us enough to get Preeminence at some point, or a stance so we can ensure we finish the temple.

Can we not do super-risky things?

I'm willing to grant Ruinous Valor is good, and being a three-pick we can get it from a moderately difficult fight. But Stranglethorn gets us very low marginal utility, and we'd have to do something very dangerous to get it. Also, now that I think about it Stranglethorn is really bad with our current build.

Why Stranglethorn is bad:
We are good on offense at the moment. We have a lot of striking power. As such, increased strength isn't very worthwhile to us - we hit way above our weight class already, anything that requires that much extra strength to beat we have no business actually fighting.
We are pretty good on defense at the moment. It's not perfect, but it's also not a weakness. As such increasing Con is less valuable then patching up our actual weaknesses.
Agility is actually our most important combat stat right now. Our immense striking power means that if we can hit something, we will almost invariably win against it. Agility is what determines whether we can hit something or not. As such the penalty from Stranglethorn is crippling.
Establishment only is useful over such long periods of time that it will not help us with Temple of the False Moon at all. Unless we decide to extend our stay into months and years. As such for our immediate problems it's useless.

Looking at it holistically, Stranglethorn has immense anti-synergy with our current build. I literally wouldn't take it if it was a two-pick or maybe even a one-pick, much less a four. I understand people have wanted it for a long time and have nostalgia glasses on, but objectively speaking it is not what we should be going for right now.
 
Current vote count?

Zweihander says that all of our hand to hand attacks get the full power of the Forebear's Blade behind them. Does that mean that First Blade would make all of our punches have Thousand Cuts applied to them? Because if it does, I think the dream of the Muscle Wizard is not dead at all. Merely dreaming.

First Blade only works on the Blade itself, though I don't think it'll make a huge difference in most fights.

Stranglethorn is obscene with Uttermost and Ruinous Valor. Double our strength, which scales our Power of Ruin, which applies sevenfold to every single one of our attacks. Take the Willpower bonus from Uttermost and double it to ++++++++++++++Willpower. Have a (1.3*1.2)=1.56 = 56% increase to the value of all +Rank choices.

It's additive, but having +50% Rank gain is still great!

I'm willing to grant Ruinous Valor is good, and being a three-pick we can get it from a moderately difficult fight. But Stranglethorn gets us very low marginal utility, and we'd have to do something very dangerous to get it. Also, now that I think about it Stranglethorn is really bad with our current build.

You could also just heal your arm from Ruling Ring!
 
You could also just heal your arm from Ruling Ring!

Nice to know, Ruinous Valor is still good because of power of ruin synergy, although either way it's still much less valuable then actually patching the weaknesses in our build (social and utility). However, if we end up in a situation where we're saving Arete to patch those weaknesses and have three picks, Ruinous Valor might be the best choice depending on the situation.
 
Current vote count?



First Blade only works on the Blade itself, though I don't think it'll make a huge difference in most fights.



It's additive, but having +50% Rank gain is still great!



You could also just heal your arm from Ruling Ring!

Tally incoming I guess.
Adhoc vote count started by Conjured Blade on Jun 19, 2020 at 1:57 PM, finished with 222 posts and 44 votes.
 
[X] Vacation
[X] The Ring of Power -
Dominion

Vacations are good too! Just give me the Ring!

My list of priorities:

1.) Stranglethorn
2.) Ruinous Valor
3.) Dreadnought's Bearing + Iron Curtain
4.) Magic!
5.) Ruling Ring pickups
6.) Once and Future/Cut Through

Until then, we bide our time and generate Arete.
 
I am troubled that not a single vacation voter has justified the time spent on vacation:
[ ] Vacation - You don't want to go to the Encampment, but it would be nice to partake in civilization somewhere. Heal Verschlengorge with a focus on its navigational abilities and look for something fun and relatively safe. While you are determined to free the Imprisoned Ring, in your current state there simply isn't much that can be done for it.

*Consumes more time than the other options
*+Gisena, +Letrizia
*Gain +0.5 Arete, inane tasks sidequests

With the concerns about Apochryphal mitigation running out, it doesn't seem like a good idea to just fuck off from the Temple. How long will we be gone? Will we be able to get back without complications? Is the Rank Penalty from Call of the Moon going to be crippling when we try to operate outside of the Temple?

And the biggest concern: Do we surrender any of the momentum we've built up towards the impending contest of will between the Ring of Blood and the ring of the false moon?
 
Ah right, no wonder Defining Advancements provide bonuses to Rank gain, they literally define your legend. And of course Inheritor would penalise it, that would dilute your story with that of another. Presumably that could be resolved through Abduction to seize those parts for yourself but with all of our current slots filled and covering most bases, there's no real point.

Might that also influence the development of our findross? Sorceresses are made in the image of their progenitor so there's no wonder they follow in her footsteps, to do their duties as best they are able. Could acting in line with our Defining Advancements do something similar? Even if it doesn't, the connections between findross and Rank are worth noting and Philosopher's Wreath would be a relatively low investment way of getting the versatility we're seeking while having a level of synergy without existing choices.

Alternatively, we could wander around the Voyaging Realm seeking someone who has the Noble Praxis and grab that instead. The Praxis is something that I think literally all parties in this quest can agree on.
 
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I am troubled that not a single vacation voter has justified the time spent on vacation:


With the concerns about Apochryphal mitigation running out, it doesn't seem like a good idea to just fuck off from the Temple. How long will we be gone? Will we be able to get back without complications? Is the Rank Penalty from Call of the Moon going to be crippling when we try to operate outside of the Temple?

And the biggest concern: Do we surrender any of the momentum we've built up towards the impending contest of will between the Ring of Blood and the ring of the false moon?

You might not like my justification, but I totally justified the undisclosed amount of time! :p

Also, i have no idea how to just link to my post so I quoted it.

One big bonus of vacation, as eluded to here, is some breathing room. Now now, I hear you saying already "but we only have 9~ days of Apocryphal free time left!" and you would be correct, but how can we take a vacation with that sort of a curse hanging over our heads? In a way, this is one of those rare few moments we CAN take a vacation.

The other benefit, just imagine this with me folks. Just for a second I want you to picture not one, not two, but perhaps THREE updates without us on the precipice of death! Holy cow, we can have a weekend off folks! By the time we're stepping into the Temple again, we'll have a nice full purse of Arete, a fully rejuvinated Hunger, a tricked out Gisena and we'll be even better friends with Letrizia.

It's time friends, lets kick back and fire up the OVA. I've heard there is some really high quality animation in this one!
 
I am troubled that not a single vacation voter has justified the time spent on vacation:

With the concerns about Apochryphal mitigation running out, it doesn't seem like a good idea to just fuck off from the Temple. How long will we be gone? Will we be able to get back without complications? Is the Rank Penalty from Call of the Moon going to be crippling when we try to operate outside of the Temple?

And the biggest concern: Do we surrender any of the momentum we've built up towards the impending contest of will between the Ring of Blood and the ring of the false moon?

My convictions for a particular vote (except for Ring) are not very strong! I'll vote for the strongest non-fish vote!

Sidenote: is it possible to specify for voting power/fanwork power to be directed against a particular option (e.g., {X} Not Stranglethorn), or would that be in bad faith?
 
Vacation does expend your Apocryphal-free days rather frivolously, though you've got the Condition weighing you down so there's some justification for it. If you'd like to be more efficient with time at the cost of Arete, +Relationships and sidequests, though, it'd be best to decide which of the non-Vacation options you're going to consolidate around! They're all pretty close in votes at the moment.
 
You might not like my justification, but I totally justified the undisclosed amount of time! :p

Also, i have no idea how to just link to my post so I quoted it.
My bad! I do like your justification, actually. :3

Not enough to vote against Slack Off, but 3 updates of Arete gathered without Mortal Peril is highly appealing
 
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