[X] The Ring of Power - Dominion

We're not in immediate danger - now is exactly the time to invest in a long term project. Another step towards Ruling Ring, at which point all of these injuries will vanish like mist in the morning.
 
I dunno, with our current highly focused build we benefit the most from physical enhancements (especially Agi) and improvements to our Ultimate - now basic attack. Rank has certain utility benefits, but the Ring Domain options don't really let us invoke them willy-nilly.

Assuming we'll be wildly successful during our vacation/fishing expedition, let's say we'll get Dominion and Preeminence for one of our domains, which would mean +0.5 to Rank and +AllStats while we're doing something related to it, for the price of 2 picks and 9 Arete. It's... cool, but we don't have FoR to make that Rank bonus truly shine anymore, so it seems to me to be more of a 'neat, should get when we can' thing. But is that the best we can get for this price to make the following Temple exploration safer?

Or to put it more bluntly, is the Ruling Ring something we're sure we can get before we encounter something truly dangerous in the Temple once more? Assuming we can deal with the consequences of starting the Ring contest, of course.
 
If Dominion and Preeminence are a "should get it when we can" thing, then we should definetly get it now. Also remember that +0.5 Rank is the equivalent of four picks in usual circumstances, and that +0.7 Rank was equivalent to Uttermost, Stranglethorn, etc. Don't underestimate Rank, it makes everything we do better. With that and +All Stats, I think it's a perfectly fine option.

@runeblue360 I think you forgot to update our totals with Quickening in the charsheet? We are supposed to have 20 AGI, 17 STR, 20 CON and 6 WITS.
 
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0.7 Rank improvement is very different from 0.5 Rank, because the curve isn't linear. It was also an unconditional bonus, so we could use it for finding monsters, intellectual and social challenges, etc etc. We like to sweep everything under the purview of War under the pretext of everything being about conflict from a certain point of view, for example, but I suspect the reality of it will be quite different. There would be no point to Domains otherwise.
 
wait wait why are people suddenly going for marriage and Gisena not being a maiden? can't we just have a close friendship and be partners in crime?
 
wait wait why are people suddenly going for marriage and Gisena not being a maiden? can't we just have a close friendship and be partners in crime?
We gave her our Arete and are now considering Conjugal Conjunctional options. Marriage will just make it official. :V

Personally I would rather leave her in the friendzone until Hunger has a chance to heal mentally at least. And that will take a while. Assuming she hasn't found someone else by then, we can revisit the question.
 
0.7 Rank improvement is very different from 0.5 Rank, because the curve isn't linear. It was also an unconditional bonus, so we could use it for finding monsters, intellectual and social challenges, etc etc. We like to sweep everything under the purview of War under the pretext of everything being about conflict from a certain point of view, for example, but I suspect the reality of it will be quite different. There would be no point to Domains otherwise.
War - Applies to any conflict with real and serious stakes
This definitely doesn't apply to everything, but I expect it to apply the majority of the time we are in the Temple, and definitely to any fight we find ourselves in. 0.5 Rank is still enough to provide a significant advantage, and Preeminence does provide the equivalent of 9.8 +Stats; losing only about 1.2 from Uttermost. And that's if there aren't more stats we haven't seen yet. So I think it's a great pick still.

@runeblue360 hate to bother you again, but going from sheet to sheet I think you forgot the Fall of Night Stat bonuses too. Should be 2 more Strength and 1 more Agility across both our forms.
 
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This definitely doesn't apply to everything, but I expect it to apply the majority of the time we are in the Temple, and definitely to any fight we find ourselves in. 0.5 Rank is still enough to provide a significant advantage, and Preeminence does provide the equivalent of 9.8 +Stats; losing only about 1.2 from Uttermost. And that's if there aren't more stats we haven't seen yet. So I think it's a great pick still.
It's 9 Arete, of course it's good. But is it the best we can get? We've somehow stumbled into a synergistic and focused build that turns our normal strikes into what is normally an expensive and exhausting Ultimate attack, made especially devastating by improvements such as Thousand Cuts and Fall of the Night. Like it or not, that's our Defining Advancement now. It appears to me that getting another improvement to our Ultimate will give much better returns for the same price. Or something Blood-related, since we have +Progression to it and our combat power is now almost completely concentrated in our physical body. But the other Ring Domains are neither. If I could be certain that we could get Ruling Ring in a relevant timeframe, I'd be all for it, but is that the case?
 
It's 9 Arete, of course it's good. But is it the best we can get? We've somehow stumbled into a synergistic and focused build that turns our normal strikes into what is normally an expensive and exhausting Ultimate attack, made especially devastating by improvements such as Thousand Cuts and Fall of the Night. Like it or not, that's our Defining Advancement now. It appears to me that getting another improvement to our Ultimate will give much better returns for the same price. Or something Blood-related, since we have +Progression to it and our combat power is now almost completely concentrated in our physical body. But the other Ring Domains are neither. If I could be certain that we could get Ruling Ring in a relevant timeframe, I'd be all for it, but is that the case?
We can simply take Ruinous Valor, which synergizes with our build for three picks and stats while saving Arete for Stances or The Ring.
 
It's 9 Arete, of course it's good. But is it the best we can get? We've somehow stumbled into a synergistic and focused build that turns our normal strikes into what is normally an expensive and exhausting Ultimate attack, made especially devastating by improvements such as Thousand Cuts and Fall of the Night. Like it or not, that's our Defining Advancement now. It appears to me that getting another improvement to our Ultimate will give much better returns for the same price. Or something Blood-related, since we have +Progression to it and our combat power is now almost completely concentrated in our physical body. But the other Ring Domains are neither. If I could be certain that we could get Ruling Ring in a relevant timeframe, I'd be all for it, but is that the case?
We shouldn't procrastinate on getting something so important as an FEB, especially when the option will still benefit us in the meantime. We should just learn some delayed gratification, frankly. Since Dominion plus Preeminence is more Arete heavy than pick heavy, we can still get it with options that don't ask for Arete like Valour, or indeed Blood advancements. The sooner we get Ruling Ring, the more we will benefit from it.

And it's not like more Rank doesn't help our strategy. It can help a lot, and any other strategy in need of pursuing. Rank is the godstat for a reason, after all.
 
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Adhoc vote count started by Unelemental on Jun 19, 2020 at 12:53 PM, finished with 203 posts and 42 votes.
 
Discussion is a bit slower today. So, let's talk about something we've historically struggled with: Planning.

With Uttermost winning, we now have immense striking power. At this stage, I think we need to stop investing in offense. It's already so high that we're only going to see marginal improvements from upgrading it further. This will continue to be the case until we start to encounter opponents against which Thousand Cuts on every single attack is insufficient. I believe it's going to be a very long time before we hit that point. The only offensive upgrade I think is worth considering is Ruinous Valor, for two reasons. First because Hunger has stated he needs the other arm back to make full use of his restored blade, and second because our strength is so high that Ruinous Valor provides a huge boost, enough to overcome the decreasingly marginal benefits of more offense. Other then Ruinous Valor, I think any offensive upgrades will provide low comparative utility, because we honestly don't need them.

Our durability and mobility are also very high thanks to Quickening and the various stat boosts we've picked up. Improvements in these areas are still valuable at the moment - there are likely some things in the Inner Temple that are faster then us, and since we dumped Form of Rage we don't have that safety net any more, and as such increased durability has higher marginal utility. Still, these areas are not where we are weak. They should be a lower priority then things we actually have a weak spot in.

Now, in terms of social ability we're in dire straights. We have the massive Charisma debuff from Uttermost, and can't mitigate Doom of the Tyrant ever. This is not a problem for short-term survival, but we're going to need to rule an empire eventually. We direly need some method of overcoming our social deficiencies. The only option we have to do so right now is "more stats," but more stats is suboptimal thanks to Uttermost penalizing Charisma gains. This is not a short term problem, however, so we don't need to fix it right away. However, we should keep an eye out, if something that provides a large social benefit that isn't penalized by our current build appears, we'll want to jump on it. Otherwise we can wait on fixing social until after the Temple of the False Moon is complete.

Our other big problem is Versatility. All the arguments I made last vote about how we need versatility still apply. At least with social we have some charisma and Gisena, for utility effects we've got Chief Dominion and that's it. Chief Dominion is good, don't get me wrong, but so far it only gives buffs and debuffs to living creatures, and healing. Those are great effects but they don't cover everything we could possibly need.

Now, anyone who knows me at all will expect for me to argue for a magic system here. And I am going to, because that would solve the utility problem, is awesome in general, provides an alternative method of scaling, and we can get cross-system synergies a la EFB. However... Looking at things completely objectively, there are alternatives to a new magic system. Ruling Ring would expand our Chief Dominion utility effects greatly, and while it wouldn't get everything I want out of a magic system, it would get us enough versatility to cover our needs in that category for a while. I utterly despise Null Slice for being "SORD solves everything," but in the long term it provides a variety of utility effects. Increased rank can substitute for versatility in a pinch (see immobilizing Vanreir in that fight). Rank does not solve our utility problem because using it like that is exhausting (see the Vanreir fight, again), but it at least somewhat patches the problem.


In conclusion,
We don't need more offense. We have Thousand Cuts on every attack. Don't take it unless it's Ruinous Valor or something really amazing and limited-time comes up.
We're pretty good on Agility and Durability, but could still use improvement there. Take this if there aren't more pressing options.
We really badly need something for social, but that's a long term problem. We can put it off until after the Temple of the False Moon, unless a really good solution that is limited-time comes up.
What we most badly need, and more immediately then social, is versatility. We should get this as fast as possible. My preferred choice would be a new magic system, but Ruling Ring can mostly solve the problem, and increased rank can provide a bandaid, at least. If ya'll take Null Slice I'm probably going to cry, but it will cover the issue in the long term.
 
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