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A Simple Transaction I

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Rihaku said:
Hm... I think people are sleeping on how absurd Uttermost is. It multiplies the effective speed and power of all your sword attacks by 7, for free! There's a huge difference between Thousand Cuts as an expensive attack with wind-up and a spammable attack that's as easy as cutting your enemy! Plus, it narratively fits as Hunger's reward for this fight!
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Uttermost also drastically reduces the value of Luck, Protection, Wisdom, and Charisma, which is a fairly grave drawback. We won't have Form of Rage anymore (although at this point we haven't used it yet so maybe it doesn't even exist) and locks us into forever skipping out on the rest of society!
 
Rihaku said:
Opalescence is still pretty meh though. You'd probably be better off with Vigor Itself.
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Much as I'd want to lay the groundwork for us taking Iridescence if not get it this update, oh well I guess I'll take the advice.

The Charisma also helps us on the road to being a memetic hazard.

[x]True Maiming
[x] The Ring of Power - Inheritor (3 picks, 2 Arete)
-[x]Librarian
[x]Vigor Itself
 
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Man, Letrizia is going to be so worried about us no matter what debuff wins. At least we gave Gisena physical stats comparable to Hunger's own? That may... soon become relevant, though I don't think she's that good a physical fighter, Graces aside.
 
[X] True Maiming
[X] Feat: Kinslayer

Let's take our lumps, forgo the special stuff, and thereby gain enough power to claim the Tortured Ring.

Orm Embar said:
Man, Letrizia is going to be so worried about us no matter what debuff wins. At least we gave Gisena physical stats comparable to Hunger's own? That may... soon become relevant, though I don't think she's that good a physical fighter, Graces aside.
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my understanding is that she's actually quite skilled in combat
 
Rihaku said:
Is it?
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Well while I was reading I was thinking the ring being invincible doesn't do us much good if the attack applies enough force to just rip our finger off. The thrust did shatter all the bones in our hand but it left our finger untouched along with the ring. Maybe the ring is immovable as well as invincible? Not sure how our hand was shattered then, maybe the area of effect was larger than could be blocked just with the ring but as a thrust only the point was absolutely deadly?
 
Rihaku said:
Hm... I think people are sleeping on how absurd Uttermost is. It multiplies the effective speed and power of all your sword attacks by 7, for free! There's a huge difference between Thousand Cuts as an expensive attack with wind-up and a spammable attack that's as easy as cutting your enemy! Plus, it narratively fits as Hunger's reward for this fight!



Interesting symmetry...



The social component was a significant reason for Hunger's victory. It could certainly have been crucial, especially if Hunger rolled less well.



Opalescence is still pretty meh though. You'd probably be better off with Vigor Itself.



Indeed. He probably won't venture in while Exhausted, etc.
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Now the quesiton, is Hunger willing to leave the temple, or is he the dreadbeast fully commited at this point? I feel like this is a quite important information for this vote.
 
The part that annoys me about this is now we won't benefit from the lower level at all. So we basically wasted 2 arete and nearly died for... well, nothing.
 
Byzantine said:
I'm not sure we'll ever see Inheritor again, at least not any time soon.
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Not a fan of Inheritor, personally. For one, it gives double the Mental Contamination of Cut Through, and unlike the latter, it isn't coming from Forebear. -10% to future Rank upgrades is even worse.

I guess we can pick Inheritor+Magus to get quickly some juicy space-time magic, that would be useful. But I'd rather just have Rank.
 
Thomasfoolery said:
This leaves us slightly weaker than before, but with .2 higher effective rank, this means we'll be able to more effectively select targets/avoid hostiles. Meanwhile Gisena took El Stats and now is an effective force on the battlefield in addition to her debuffing, making up for our weakness, letting us get some more picks under our belt.
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Yup, it's a good thing you guys took Sublime Attainment when you did. ...Maybe she can carry you around!

ImperatorV said:
Librarian is also really cool powerwise, but has the worst passenger attached to it. Unerring has the best passenger but is a poor power - it's only half of the killer combo and I don't see many methods of expanding it via TSH the way I do Correspondent.
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Don't forget the stats associated with each character! Vanreir probably has the best stat block for those % bonuses, and then you stack Unerring on top of that... that's a lot of stats!

Gerrou said:
I feel we should pick a 4-pick option, that's the main benefit of this clusterfuck of a fight. Upgrades with lower picks can be bought later almost at any time, but I doubt we're going to voluntarily seek another battle of this magnitude for a while.

An added advantage is they are free. We really cannot afford to spend even more Arete at the moment.
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4-pick availability is a concern...

Byzantine said:
I'm not sure we'll ever see Inheritor again, at least not any time soon.
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Depends who you fight, but it's pretty likely you won't.

Byzantine said:
Uttermost prevents ever mitigating Tyrant. No.
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Dying also prevents mitigating Tyrant!
 
Talace said:
Uttermost also drastically reduces the value of Luck, Protection, Wisdom, and Charisma, which is a fairly grave drawback. We won't have Form of Rage anymore (although at this point we haven't used it yet so maybe it doesn't even exist) and locks us into forever skipping out on the rest of society!
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In addition to all that, unless Rihaku wants to tell us one way or the other, that may or may not lock out Final Form as a future option. Hard to say, though.
 
Advantages of Inheritor:

Big bonuses to two stats.
-10% to rank gains, but we gain the ability to raise rank on our own terms rather then needing to seek out super-strong opponents. Very valuable for people who like rank but don't like taking big risks!
New magic system! Either the stuff the Magus used (re-read that fight and tell me his spells aren't cool as heck), Archer guy's clone spam and space-time control, or we can have Vanrier hang around and get an OK-ish power. Also, To Shatter Heaven is applied, giving us 400% advancement rate and the ability to break any limits the powers have, and we start out with a substantial fraction of the original user's skill - no taking five days to reach some proficiency, we have a lot right off the bat!

Downsides of Inheritor:
-10% to rank gains (but see above).
Mental Contamination - this is the big one and the only reason I see to vote against Inheritor. It's a valid concern though. I think it's worth the powers, but I can understand if others don't.

Either/Or:

We get to drag the original user's soul along. Good if it's Vanrier, the other two we could just put to sleep and not interact with them. Actually, wait, we could interrogate them for info about the Temple! And wasn't the Magus an Inner resident? It might be hard to get him to talk, but if we could do so that would get us vital info about our enemy's fortress!

Also, I need to sleep, so I'll be leaving soon. I'm glad we survived.
 
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[X] Punctured Soul
[X] Hunger - Stranglethorn

Once more, I flake! Instead, let's try and pursue Stranglethorn + Dreadnought's Bearing! So we don't have to be so close to dying again.
 
Byzantine said:
Reminder Apocryphal will return before we can act in full.
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We're several miles ahead of where we would have been if we had picked to not go to the temple, even considering the debuff. And honestly I'd still really rather that we fight while Tired instead of Maimed.


runeblue360 said:
If we're moronic enough to go back into the Temple after this just happened, we deserve to die.
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Notice how a non-insignificant portion of the discussion so far is about doing exactly that.
 
[x] The Ring of Power - Inheritor (3 picks, 2 Arete)
-[x]Librarian
[x]Opalesence

Really need to start working towards getting defences toward magical and conceptual abilities. Doesn't matter how high the numerical stat is if it can be just invalidated. Also another source of buffs and debuffs plus disposable summons.
 
Seriously, if people want to stay in the temple, i think Uttermost+Maiming shouldn't be underestimated, especially when taking our raw speed into consideration. It's utimately the least bad option in the short-term, and the one that i think has the most chance of leaving the temple alive.
 
George said:
Based on how things have gone so far, we aren't going to get any significant mitigation of it anyway. Gisena knows how to work around it; let that be enough.
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We've had all of a single mitigation attempt, and we haven't done Tyrant because we weren't facing Tyrant Proc places. We're going to have to, relatively soon and for the duration of the Geas in general.
 
Enohthree said:
We've had all of a single mitigation attempt, and we haven't done Tyrant because we weren't facing Tyrant Proc places. We're going to have to, relatively soon and for the duration of the Geas in general.
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A single mitigation on it barely does anything anyway due to the nature of the curse, do you remember how anemically worded those choices were? If we don't reach 2nd mitigations then this can hardly even be considered a downside.

Byzantine said:
We're probably never going to see Inheritor again any time soon if we pass it up here.
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Such is the nature of these build votes. Even the common things are unlikely to ever be taken if they're passed up. Notice how hardly anyone is discussing taking Ruinous Valor? We should likewise expect to never take Uttermost if it's not taken here.
 
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Rihaku said:
Hm... I think people are sleeping on how absurd Uttermost is. It multiplies the effective speed and power of all your sword attacks by 7, for free! There's a huge difference between Thousand Cuts as an expensive attack with wind-up and a spammable attack that's as easy as cutting your enemy! Plus, it narratively fits as Hunger's reward for this fight!
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[X] Punctured Soul
[X] Forebear's Blade - Uttermost

Wait when uttermost says fell handed strike on every attack it means thousand cuts on every attack!? That's basically Van's ultimate!
 
[X] True Maiming

So just 10% lower HP and fixable anyway.

[X] Feat: Kinslayer

You don't see Rank Up options often.
 
Inheritor is by far my least favored option here, people were concerned about Cut Through, but some rando headvoice chirping away and bleeding into us is fine? Caging their soul is also pretty unappealing just on its own to me.
 
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