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Game, Set, [MAFIA]

Do people like pointless polls with their mafia?

  • Yes.

    Votes: 7 24.1%

  • No.

    Votes: 2 6.9%

  • I didn't answer this.

    Votes: 7 24.1%

  • Wynaut?

    Votes: 13 44.8%
  • Total voters
    29
Reader mode
[X] Vote Shadell

Frankly speaking I just found out there's only 3 hours left, so.. I'm stepping away from my joke vote.

Hopefully they're a wolf. That's really the best thing I can hope for. Killing a wolf early would be ideal.
 
So, I don't think the shadell lynch really holds water. It tracks back to this post:
Shadell said:
[x] Vote Nictis

Nictis claims to know that there's 3 scum! Who'd know that there are 3 scum exactly? Scum obviously!



Okay, first thing, we got "all potential roles for town" and "the mafia's abilities." Based on Nictis' response above, I assume that the mafia has all of these, and knows exactly what town has in play. This, at a glance, honestly makes me think town's just kind of fucked, but it's possible that scum's actually a lot weaker than the list suggests at a glance. (If, say, killing+arson aren't compatible, that halves the effective speed with which mafia wins) OTOH, I don't think town has any possible way of confirming a lot of this.

So, this is a bit of a mess. We don't know if abilities are all distributed with each mafia getting one (or all?!) actions each night, or mafia is like an arsonist, a dual rolecop/block and a lawyer. Mafia also is loaded on powers to nullify anything town does. The fools potentially number equal to the mafia, each of our investigative roles has a clear failure condition or two, and mafia knows *exactly* which ones are unprovable to claim at any given moment, and that's not considering that each of them has a drawback.

In the worst case, mafia more or less wins D3 presuming dousing doubles their rate of kills.

We know, ostensibly, that everything that anyone does has some kind of hidden drawback (though wtf is a hidden drawback on a fool whose 'power' seems to be a straight up disadvantage to their faction in the first place?) It's likely that what we don't see here is quite good for town on the whole.

So, basically, in the worst case for town, none of our powers actually work with anything resembling reliability, scum has near impunity on fakeclaims and scum has a horrific rate of murder, while also being able to kill twice as fast as a normal scum team.
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Where, yeah, they seem kind of away from reality - scum doesn't have drawbackless kill+arson every night, that just doesn't work - but they acknowledge that their proposed wore case scenario has town kinda fucked, and I don't think any of the followup discussion of their position really changes my position on it.


Lost, on the other hand, has posting I genuinely don't like, but that I'm not sure I'm convinced is evidence of them being scum; it's a mistake I could see town!lost making, even though it's definitely a mistake. I prefer their lynch to most of the others atm, but I don't want to make this a do or die thing for them just yet when there's not really enough to justify it.
 
Those are two very different looking tallies for no votes having been changed between them.
 
QTesseract said:
Lost, on the other hand, has posting I genuinely don't like, but that I'm not sure I'm convinced is evidence of them being scum; it's a mistake I could see town!lost making, even though it's definitely a mistake.
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I've not said anything so far this game that I wouldn't say as town in another game, except the comments referencing this specific game's gimmick mechanic.
 
mesonoxian said:
Sorry for being absent. No internet at work today.

I am torn between voting for @LostDeviljho or @Shadell .

LDJ is bleeding a lot of info in really unnecessary ways. It seems performative.

Shadell is doing a lot to direct people to particular votes in a way that feels very aggressive. Asking people to choose between three people to justify a vote, while not quite telling them to vote for one of those people is still pretty powerful suggestion, especially against new players.
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I'm not?

Literally, that's a pretty standard question to try to get a read from the more inactive members of the thread. I've raised suspicion against half the thread.

Like, what you're saying amounts "prodding the thread along is intrinsically sus" except most here saw what happened D1 last game. Not pushing the thread along would be disastrous.
Cyricubed said:
It tends to lead to people overthinking their role, believing that the info they could obtain is now more precious than the info they have obtained. Sometimes simply reducing the field of who done it is just enough to change a game. Lets put an example. You are a watcher who one night sees two people visit one person. Someone else dies that night. The info of those two people NOT visiting a killed target becomes more valuable the more time goes on...HOWEVER, holding onto that information for too long makes it risky and in some cases worse for not revealing at a better time. In example: In the same scottish play game there was an Omni watcher for 1 night, he managed to see whom everyone visited, which included them seeing terrabrand visit a nightkill alone. If they had started their arguments around such they would have been able to probably swing the game around since it was a hard pivot point of win or lose for town. Instead they asked obtuse question and took too long in the day. In the end Terrabrand took the eventual reveal, poked holes into the reasonings for not revealing right away, and managed to win it for scum.
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It's pretty tenuous to suggest anyone pointing out that scum has counterintelligence powers is really a masterplan to demotivate town PRs from revealing when needed. Like, D1 has been a sea of pointless info-bleed, we hardly need to convince the players to be more forthcoming here.


In terms of townreads, I think ondine is pretty clear here for the moment, in terms of actually taking actions on her own initiative that benefit town. Obviously that's not deterministic, but it's a lot less cause to vote ondine than anyone else. QT can be quiet at times, so not sure there.
InterstellarHobo said:
EDIT: That's false, ondine already had a vote on LostDeviljho.
It's still not a lot
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I stated suspicion on Lost, you voted Lost, Ondine voted lost, QT stated suspicions of Lost. That's a quarter of the thread very quickly.

More notably, ondine is the one who first pointed this out.
Totadileplayz said:
Frankly speaking I just found out there's only 3 hours left, so.. I'm stepping away from my joke vote.

Hopefully they're a wolf. That's really the best thing I can hope for. Killing a wolf early would be ideal.
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I like this not at all. Zero justification beyond "We should kill someone" is just trying to get a train rolling.
Young Pyromancer said:
Shadell liked my post calling them out, yet they haven't responded.
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Ah yes, because writing a response to multiple posts asking for evidence takes a few minutes sometimes.
 
InterstellarHobo said:
So I just botched the 'insert tally', but we can make it work.

That's the tally from the start of the day, up until this post:

So I was hoping Shadell would turn up to explain this, but there's only three hours left.
You'll notice that Deviljho only has one vote on them.
If you check the thread, Deviljho only ever had one vote on them.

[X] Vote Shadell
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I literally just inserted a tally with the right votes. Devil does have two votes. And this is super weird and manipulative and thanks for giving me a real suspicion on D1. Wow.

[X] vote Interstellarhobo
 
The case against me boils down to "I made stuff happen D1" and then hitting me for stuff that literally others had already suggested. This is incredibly tortured logic, and it's frankly making me double back on those who built it. I don't think IH would stay so consistently on target as scum, so, looking at the other players, I think Young Pyromaniac is mostly retaliating after being called mildly scum, which is bad play, but happens

Meso sided with me as agreeing with my initial reactions:
mesonoxian said:
It was pretty much my reaction to the role list as well. As for what purpose it serves, I'd rather have on topic speculation than the usual day one listlessness.
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mesonoxian said:
Shadell is doing a lot to direct people to particular votes in a way that feels very aggressive. Asking people to choose between three people to justify a vote, while not quite telling them to vote for one of those people is still pretty powerful suggestion, especially against new players.
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I don't like the flip, particularly when this is a pretty tortured characterization of what I wrote.


However, self-preservation dictates:

[x] Vote InterstellarHobo


I have IRL commitments this evening, so won't be monitoring the thread, but I would very much

Young Pyromancer said:
But still, can you tell me why you're suspicious of me?
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My laptop seems to have eaten a post earlier today.

In short, I really didn't like your comments on game balance, and the argument felt a bit off overall. It wasn't a very strong read (stronger for Swarmingu's contentless votes).


ondine said:
Right? Isn't that fascinating?
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I dunno, an honest, albeit somewhat tortured, mistake seems more likely to me for that than actual scumminess. Like, it's a blatant lie that's going to get called immediately by the voters being misrepresented. I do think IH is usually a pretty good player, so dumb mistake fits better for that than actual wolfiness imo.
 
Actually. I was going to remark about how I liked The Shadell vote line because I liked that train of thought. However. Ondine has a point.
[X] vote Interstellarhobo
 
You two keep
Shadell said:
I think Young Pyromaniac is mostly retaliating after being called mildly scum,
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I was trying to get you to tell me what I did wrong, as for some reason, every single game I've played ends up with people suspicious of me D1, or killed N1. Admittedly, I've not played that many games, but it's still annoying. I'm seeking to improve my play. If this helps,
[X] null
 
ondine said:
Right? Isn't that fascinating?
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Yeeep. Not sure How they did that without deliberate manipulation...

I suppose that does count as legitimately suspicious behavior, doesn't it?

[X] vote Interstellarhobo

I'm genuinely surprised I get to vote for something seriously today.
 
If he was a mafia member then that attempt would be to attempt to swing the votes. The person who was in the lead at the Time was Qtesseract. So, if this suspicion is actually founded. Then Qtesseract would look scummy just by association.
 
ondine said:
I literally just inserted a tally with the right votes. Devil does have two votes. And this is super weird and manipulative and thanks for giving me a real suspicion on D1. Wow.

[X] vote Interstellarhobo
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What the heck are you talking about?
Your tally was current, but it was not the tally I wanted to post because it was not the tally relevant to the point I was making.

I posted the tally from start of thread to Shadell's post to demonstrate that at the time Shadell posted there was only one vote on Deviljho.
 
People change their votes all of a sudden. I'm still commited however because sunk cost fallacy and stuff.
[X] Vote LostDeviljho
 
InterstellarHobo said:
What the heck are you talking about?
Your tally was current, but it was not the tally I wanted to post because it was not the tally relevant to the point I was making.

I posted the tally from start of thread to Shadell's post to demonstrate that at the time Shadell posted there was only one vote on Deviljho.
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Alright let's go for This.
[x] Vote shadell

No, I don't really care. I did say I like interstellarhobo's line of logic, since it appears to be true unless someone points out a second vote I managed to miss.
So I'll vote with him on this.
 
Shadell said:
The case against me boils down to "I made stuff happen D1" and then hitting me for stuff that literally others had already suggested. This is incredibly tortured logic, and it's frankly making me double back on those who built it. I don't think IH would stay so consistently on target as scum, so, looking at the other players, I think Young Pyromaniac is mostly retaliating after being called mildly scum, which is bad play, but happens

Meso sided with me as agreeing with my initial reactions:



I don't like the flip, particularly when this is a pretty tortured characterization of what I wrote.
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I agreed with your initial summation of the situation. I didn't like the later "which of these three guys should we kill" bit. It feels like an attempt to control the vote, which is more typically a wolfish impulse than townish one. Maybe it is a difference in style, but it still feels off.

I'm not 100% on your being scum at this point (not even close), but this is what is standing out to me.

To be honest, none of the wagons look super compelling at this point. There are a couple folks I would probably vote for, but I don't want to kill a newbie day one.

I need to vote for somebody, though, and at this point I have narrowed it down to only a third of the thread. I think for right now that's going to be @LostDeviljho .

There "I'm low utility town" thing just really doesn't sit right. I can see a dozen different ways to read those posts, but none of the towny ones make more sense than just saying nothing about your role.

[X] vote LostDeviljho
 
Sorry, was playing for a few hours with a friend and forgot the time. In addition it's rather late here and I'm probably off in about 10 minutes, definitely not being on for EoD.

There's nothing really screaming SCUM!!!! at me today. So I'm going with my gut instinct.

[X] vote QTesseract

I don't like how his only actions till now where two/three posts were he jumped in and dunked on LDJ (which I already mentioned as either an easy lynch or distancing) and recently just being non-commital again. Gut yells scum at me.
 
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