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Storm Trooper Mafia

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Nictis said:
@ComiTurtle I can't tell if this is an uncharitable read or not. Meso's Day 1 Statistics posting, claiming to not be in a Quick Topic second post, unprompted claiming Vanilla Town, and first post of Day 2 asking everyone if anything happened to them in the night. The followups of claiming not to expect people to tell the truth about that stuff... It kinda feels like he's trying to get info to me.
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Clarification: This is me asking ComiTurtle if my thoughts on Meso are bad, not me accusing ComiTurtle of this. It wasn't very clear.
 
I don't like how Nani's vote on 1K or them being weirdly defensive of Rosen, but I'm not exactly scum reading for it even if I don't understand why they are doing it.

Having looked at what Nictis pointed out, I do agree that Hobo has been jumping about quite a bit. However, I'm also unsure of how experienced they are as I could easily view as a newbie trying to doing something. Of course, that could be an inexperienced scum trying to look like they are doing something.

Anyway, I am voting for them for now as we got about a RL day left until the end of the day.
[X] Lynch InterstellarHobo
 
Nictis said:
... People did not take that the way I was expecting.

With the thread being very quiet and nearly half of the game claiming to have not had any events in the previous night, there can be an assumption that nobody got particularly actionable info. A lookout didn't see the murder, a Cop didn't find someone trustable or scum, etc. People are usually willing to confirm that they got roleblocked just to let everyone know that there is a Roleblocker, because it doesn't actually say anything about your own role or alignment.

Half of the thread stepping up and saying "Nah, nothing here" tells scum something. Getting roleblocked and claiming to have not been roleblocked can lead to the Roleblocker revealing in order to call you out for lying, so people usually don't lie about it. This in combination with the thread being incredibly quiet and a decent portion into the Day really helps narrow targets for them.

Like, five people claimed to have had a quiet night. If we assume that those are all Town, and that the earlier number of three scum is accurate, that knocks down scum's target selection to three people. It's not a guarantee, since there might not be any roles that would give those messages to begin with. It could be that there is no Roleblocker or Jailer. But it still helps them pick out a more likely power role.

One or two people volunteering information isn't too bad, half of the thread deciding to tell everyone what didn't happen isn't helpful to Town.
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Eh, it is useful to confirm that the "nothing happened" PM was not a different datapoint from no PM. Scum already know who they targeted, and town PRs are provided an opportunity to lie to scum. If the scum are credulous enough to assume everyone told the truth, that's to town's benefit.

I note you are still trying to get others to back a lynch against me after the last push failed. (Though it did remove your other vocal accuser.).

I have seen nothing to shake my scumread on you or @Byzantine so far. Having Byzantine back off of me while you push a mislynch seems like a safer strategy than them keeping up pressure after all.

So, Nictis, (if that is your real name!) who do you have a town read on?
Byzantine said:
...though if even VT are getting a "Nothing Interesting Happened" then a RB is probably being told if they blocked something or didn't. Shit. Okay, if you got RBed we really need to know.
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I think that is quite unlikely. Probably they just get told their power worked. I.e. they weren't roleblocked themselves. If a townie was roleblocked and can safely say so, they will. Trying to spook people into giving up unnecessary info isn't good.

This could be read as an attempt to ferret out town power roles, under the assumption only a power role would get feedback about being blocked.

Argh, got to run bbs hopefully.
 
Yeah, apparently I shouldn't post when that tired. I say stupid things in stupid ways. Sorry, @Nictis. What I should have said is just a reminder that no matter how much I'm townreading you you can't be trusted because you are annoyingly good at that. Consider it a compliment, please.

mesonoxian said:
This could be read as an attempt to ferret out town power roles, under the assumption only a power role would get feedback about being blocked.
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I literally said in that post that it is standard practice for *anyone* who gets blocked to be told, regardless of if they actually have a power? Why the fuck would I lie about something easily checked on the wiki, particularly when that's where I learned it.

Now I'm scumreading you again, because you are clearly just looking for reasons to come after me.
 
Ah fuck it. @QTesseract: You need to post. @ComiTurtle: You said you would post today.

[X] Lynch Mesonoxian

This isn't solid, but this is getting ridiculous. Combined with D1I can't shake that you are just acting weird. Giving away unnecessary info, trying statistical analysis on D1. Clearing or not clearing a bunch of people based on a fight that never amounted to anything. (As Daw did not get Lynched, neither did I or BB/Nictis). You seem paranoid in all the wrong ways while not being paranoid in the right ones, and that's suspicious as fuck.
 
Byzantine said:
Yeah, apparently I shouldn't post when that tired. I say stupid things in stupid ways. Sorry, @Nictis. What I should have said is just a reminder that no matter how much I'm townreading you you can't be trusted because you are annoyingly good at that. Consider it a compliment, please.


I literally said in that post that it is standard practice for *anyone* who gets blocked to be told, regardless of if they actually have a power? Why the fuck would I lie about something easily checked on the wiki, particularly when that's where I learned it.

Now I'm scumreading you again, because you are clearly just looking for reasons to come after me.
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You seemed to think (or be suggesting) that it was important to tell if you were roleblocked on the basis that the roleblocker might get further info by blocking. That seemed odd enough that I looked for an ulterior motive. But I admit it was a stretch. And I am still suspicious of you which does color my view of things.
 
mesonoxian said:
You seemed to think (or be suggesting) that it was important to tell if you were roleblocked on the basis that the roleblocker might get further info by blocking.
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...For the love of god. I asked the question in a post the page before that. It's more important to know if someone is compromised if the roleblocker does get additional information, because that makes them a pseudo role-cop too.

Fuck, it was my question to which you started that chain of "nothing interesting happened" posts. Yourself. I can't read this as anything but an attempt to gaslight.
 
Byzantine said:
Ah fuck it. @QTesseract: You need to post. @ComiTurtle: You said you would post today.

[X] Lynch Mesonoxian

This isn't solid, but this is getting ridiculous. Combined with D1I can't shake that you are just acting weird. Giving away unnecessary info, trying statistical analysis on D1. Clearing or not clearing a bunch of people based on a fight that never amounted to anything. (As Daw did not get Lynched, neither did I or BB/Nictis). You seem paranoid in all the wrong ways while not being paranoid in the right ones, and that's suspicious as fuck.
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I mean, I still think you and Nictis are scumbuddies, enough so I used what I thought was my last post to say so.

The last lynch came down to a narrow choice between your and Nictis two most vocal critics.

Byzantine said:
...For the love of god. I asked the question in a post the page before that. It's more important to know if someone is compromised if the roleblocker does get additional information, because that makes them a pseudo role-cop too.

Fuck, it was my question to which you started that chain of "nothing interesting happened" posts. Yourself. I can't read this as anything but an attempt to gaslight.
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Right, the notion of a pseudo cop rb was weird enough to seem suspicious. How is it "gaslighting" to explain my thinking in a way that is accurate? I didn't assert anything false or that isn't confirmed by your post. Also, I admitted I was probably too suspicious and you clipped that bit away which looks like trying to push the worst possible impression of what I said.
 
So, it looks like we either don't have a second scum party with nightkill like an SK or they have some limit on kills. Either way this is good news.

I'd like to dig into some other posts, but I am at work and phone posting so that LL have to wait.
 
mesonoxian said:
I mean, I still think you and Nictis are scumbuddies, enough so I used what I thought was my last post to say so.

The last lynch came down to a narrow choice between your and Nictis two most vocal critics.
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I know what you think. I also know there is no point engaging it. I think Nictis is town, but I very much question how reliable my read on that is. And naturally I know I'm town, but you aren't going to believe me and I don't understand your reads so there's little point to trying to engage this from my perspective. Though a seasoned player may tell me I'm making a mistake here.

mesonoxian said:
Right, the notion of a pseudo cop rb was weird enough to seem suspicious. How is it "gaslighting" to explain my thinking in a way that is accurate? I didn't assert anything false or that isn't confirmed by your post. Also, I admitted I was probably too suspicious and you clipped that bit away which looks like trying to push the worst possible impression of what I said.
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It came up because we got pms that were abnormal, which might mean everyone including power roles got abnormal pms. I thought about it after IH's post about if the roleblocker had already targeted the cop by chance.

mesonoxian said:
So, it looks like we either don't have a second scum party with nightkill like an SK or they have some limit on kills. Either way this is good news.
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Or we have a Doc or other protective role who made a lucky guess to stop the second one. Or they withheld the first night to give us a bad impression of the setup.

Most likely a standard 10 v 3 game though, with 1 kill a night.
 
mesonoxian said:
Eh, it is useful to confirm that the "nothing happened" PM was not a different datapoint from no PM. Scum already know who they targeted, and town PRs are provided an opportunity to lie to scum. If the scum are credulous enough to assume everyone told the truth, that's to town's benefit.
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mesonoxian said:
I think that is quite unlikely. Probably they just get told their power worked. I.e. they weren't roleblocked themselves. If a townie was roleblocked and can safely say so, they will. Trying to spook people into giving up unnecessary info isn't good.

This could be read as an attempt to ferret out town power roles, under the assumption only a power role would get feedback about being blocked.
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...

I'm tired, so forgive me if this isn't very clear, but apparently I'm going to have to take the time to actually explain this.

To preface, you seem to be running under the assumption that a roleblocker would be scum. This is not the case. I am going to grant the benefit of the doubt and just assume that it is a misunderstanding on your end rather than TMI.

The first thing I want to explain is lying. Specifically, verifiable lies. Town most often doesn't want to lie about events, because that can cause issues later on either by the scum being able to shade them for having lied to cast doubt at a critical juncture, or when they die they can't clear up a misunderstanding to prevent a mislynch on Town. That's for issues down the line, in the more immediate term you've got other issues. For one, a member of the Town might reveal in order to call you out on your lie, usually leading to the lynch of the person who lied and often to the murder of the Town roleblocker. Alternatively, a Scum Roleblocker is incentivized to reveal in order to call you out on your lie, because that helps focus the Day's lynch on Town and solidifies their place as that role. If the roleblocker doesn't call it out then any future claim can be marred by having let someone else lie to everyone. Lynch all Liars is a thing.

The second thing I want to talk about is pointless bullshit. And yes, that is what I call it. Asking people to reveal info, but then saying that you expect them to lie, means that it is just pointless bullshit from your stated perspective. When you claim to not be in a Quicktopic but respond to people questioning why you would say that with "Well everyone is going to lie about that, right?" means that there was no point to it from your stated perspective. If everyone says the same thing, then it changes nothing. The thing is that not everyone is going to lie, or play along, and that calls attention towards those that don't. From the stated perspective of Town that thinks it's okay because it means nothing... It means nothing. From the perspective of scum, it can be an attempt at info digging.

The scum perspective. So at the start you claim not to be in a quicktopic, following a trend that shouldn't have been started in the first place. You get told that giving out excessive info is bad... and then you claim Vanilla Town. Maybe that's just a new player mistake, or it's an attempt to get others to reveal the same. Pointless bullshit, or trying to get role info. Then Day 2 you ask everyone if anything happened to them. That goes beyond volunteering your own info (And your own message confirms that nothing happened to you, meaning that yes it is the same as not getting a night PM) it goes into actively trying to figure out the setup.

Certain roles leave messages that players are usually willing to share. "I got roleblocked" "I got jailed" or "I was transported" for example. Scum aren't going to know what roles are in the game other than their own, I already explained how trying to figure out who wasn't blocked when the thread had been incredibly quiet without much drive is helping the scum find informative roles, but trying to get people to reveal what has happened to them is actively power hunting.

And again, if we take you at your word that you expected people to all just say "Nothing happened 'ere Cap!" then it's pointless bullshit. Realistically though, not everyone is going to say that. Refer back to the first point, Town don't want to be caught lying.

Also, do you just not see the discrepancy between your own posts and what you're accusing Byzantine of?
 
Byzantine said:
I know what you think. I also know there is no point engaging it. I think Nictis is town, but I very much question how reliable my read on that is. And naturally I know I'm town, but you aren't going to believe me and I don't understand your reads so there's little point to trying to engage this from my perspective. Though a seasoned player may tell me I'm making a mistake here.


It came up because we got pms that were abnormal, which might mean everyone including power roles got abnormal pms. I thought about it after IH's post about if the roleblocker had already targeted the cop by chance.


Or we have a Doc or other protective role who made a lucky guess to stop the second one. Or they withheld the first night to give us a bad impression of the setup.

Most likely a standard 10 v 3 game though, with 1 kill a night.
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Okay, that makes more sense wrt the unusual pm.

I saw somebody I'm like 70% scum reading ask for more info and got paranoid.

And I tend to say most of what crosses my mind unless it relates to a power role or something like that.
Nictis said:
...

I'm tired, so forgive me if this isn't very clear, but apparently I'm going to have to take the time to actually explain this.

To preface, you seem to be running under the assumption that a roleblocker would be scum. This is not the case. I am going to grant the benefit of the doubt and just assume that it is a misunderstanding on your end rather than TMI.

The first thing I want to explain is lying. Specifically, verifiable lies. Town most often doesn't want to lie about events, because that can cause issues later on either by the scum being able to shade them for having lied to cast doubt at a critical juncture, or when they die they can't clear up a misunderstanding to prevent a mislynch on Town. That's for issues down the line, in the more immediate term you've got other issues. For one, a member of the Town might reveal in order to call you out on your lie, usually leading to the lynch of the person who lied and often to the murder of the Town roleblocker. Alternatively, a Scum Roleblocker is incentivized to reveal in order to call you out on your lie, because that helps focus the Day's lynch on Town and solidifies their place as that role. If the roleblocker doesn't call it out then any future claim can be marred by having let someone else lie to everyone. Lynch all Liars is a thing.

The second thing I want to talk about is pointless bullshit. And yes, that is what I call it. Asking people to reveal info, but then saying that you expect them to lie, means that it is just pointless bullshit from your stated perspective. When you claim to not be in a Quicktopic but respond to people questioning why you would say that with "Well everyone is going to lie about that, right?" means that there was no point to it from your stated perspective. If everyone says the same thing, then it changes nothing. The thing is that not everyone is going to lie, or play along, and that calls attention towards those that don't. From the stated perspective of Town that thinks it's okay because it means nothing... It means nothing. From the perspective of scum, it can be an attempt at info digging.

The scum perspective. So at the start you claim not to be in a quicktopic, following a trend that shouldn't have been started in the first place. You get told that giving out excessive info is bad... and then you claim Vanilla Town. Maybe that's just a new player mistake, or it's an attempt to get others to reveal the same. Pointless bullshit, or trying to get role info. Then Day 2 you ask everyone if anything happened to them. That goes beyond volunteering your own info (And your own message confirms that nothing happened to you, meaning that yes it is the same as not getting a night PM) it goes into actively trying to figure out the setup.

Certain roles leave messages that players are usually willing to share. "I got roleblocked" "I got jailed" or "I was transported" for example. Scum aren't going to know what roles are in the game other than their own, I already explained how trying to figure out who wasn't blocked when the thread had been incredibly quiet without much drive is helping the scum find informative roles, but trying to get people to reveal what has happened to them is actively power hunting.

And again, if we take you at your word that you expected people to all just say "Nothing happened 'ere Cap!" then it's pointless bullshit. Realistically though, not everyone is going to say that. Refer back to the first point, Town don't want to be caught lying.

Also, do you just not see the discrepancy between your own posts and what you're accusing Byzantine of?
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My goal wasn't scumhunting, it was to see if that pm was abnormal or not. Once it was confirmed to be, scum and or alike can lie, and it does nothing. But if owas the only one who got one, that'd be important to know.

I didn't think about a town rb. But if anything that does provide a reason to be suspicious of someone insisting we need to say if we've been roleblocked (since it will help scum narrow down who they could be.)

I thought I did this before but the tally says no:

[X] lynch nictis
 
mesonoxian said:
I mean, I still think you and Nictis are scumbuddies, enough so I used what I thought was my last post to say so.

The last lynch came down to a narrow choice between your and Nictis two most vocal critics.
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I... What?

Okay, so I've been busy. I haven't been able to completely catch up, hence why my timeline is incomplete. What I remember is this:

Rosen was Townreading me.
Hobo and someone else thought they nailed the scumteam as BB(Me)/Byzantine/Rosen.
Meso had been claiming that Byzantine was scummy but refused to provide reasons or point at a previous post at the EoD because why the hell would he bother?
The three wagons were Myself, Byzantine, and you. I was tied with both of you and voted up Rosen instead of self preservation voting on either of you because I didn't see the issue between you two and while Byzantine was at least willing to say why he was voting you I didn't really get it.
The lynch ended at like, 7-4 or something.

What the heck are you remembering?
(And why were you suspecting me and Byzantine as a scumteam again?)
 
I do not like their vote for Nictis combined with their behaviour and reasoning so far.

[X] Lynch Mesonoxian
 
Oshha said:
I also forgot to mention that I don't like how they are getting the facts wrong about what happened during Day 1.
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I don't think I got anything wrong, Rosen backed the lynch on Byzantine with me, the two of us nearly got lynched.

I will be afk for a couple hours.

See y'all soon.
 
Like, really. I don't know why anyone has been voting me this game. Hobo said it was for Early Day BB wagon activity... Of which there was none. And then later voted for me saying it was for the above quoted reasoning... There was no quoted reasoning that I could find. Cyricubed was voting me because my lynch would be informative? Not sure what he thought would be clearing up, it sounded like he thought that I might be scum with Meso because I disengaged from Meso. Nani was voting me just because he was voting Broken Base, and that just seemed to be because BB and Rosen were talkative.

Sorry, just wanted to complain about that real quick. I've got a lot of people saying that they suspect me this game but not giving me a whole lot of 'why'.
 
mesonoxian said:
I don't think I got anything wrong, Rosen backed the lynch on Byzantine with me, the two of us nearly got lynched.

I will be afk for a couple hours.

See y'all soon.
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At a thought? Rosen thought I was Town and his whole reasoning for voting Byzantine was that Byzantine knew my playstyle from reading the other games.
-Rosen said:
As for the last paragraph, while I'm inclined to agree, I'm also a bit unsure on just how much a scum team would want to coordinate like that. My mindset is that the more you try to plan as a team, the more things can go wrong, leading to your team's death in the long run, so from a scum mindset idk if trying to coordinate that much on Day 1 would be very viable (especially since if Byzantine does flip scum at some point, we immediately have a top suspect in Nictis). I get the whole "but that's all wine and that's what they want you to think is the case!!!" but at this point I don't see this as anything beyond just bad play by the scum team, if that is in fact what it is, which is why I don't really see a Byzantine/Nictis world anymore.
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-Rosen said:
[x]Lynch Byzantine

Okay I'm definitely not going crazy over this one
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-Rosen said:
That being said, I will be voting for self-preservation since I have a lot of things I'd like to tackle tonight.

[x] Lynch Nictis

I don't like this lynch but currently I would place my own endeavors at a higher priority than trying to save one of my Town reads. I believe it will help more moving forward to move in this direction.
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That's just the first thing to come to mind.
 
mesonoxian said:
I don't think I got anything wrong, Rosen backed the lynch on Byzantine with me, the two of us nearly got lynched.
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Facts might be a bit of an exaggeration is it is just this bit that you got wrong:
mesonoxian said:
The last lynch came down to a narrow choice between your and Nictis two most vocal critics.
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Rosen was town reading Nictis and not a proponent of them. Through I'm not actually sure what Rosen was thinking. They stated that they had town reads on you and Nictis and had a scum read on Byzantine if forced to choose between you and Byzantine.

Furthermore, it wasn't narrow. It was a toss of up of you, Nictis and Rosen until things finalised as the day came to an end with a majority deciding that preferred a Rosen lynch over a Nictis or Meso lynch.
 
Nictis said:
I've got a lot of people saying that they suspect me this game but not giving me a whole lot of 'why'.
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I must confess that I'm finding you somewhat suspect, but that is because I feel like I've been oddly supportive of you this game.

Anyway, my reads at this point.
1K = Tentative Town lean.
Nictis = Tentative Town lean.
Tykan = Tentative Town lean.
Hobo = Neutral with lean towards scum. They have been weirdly inconsistent and flip-floppy which admittedly could be due to being new rather than being scum.
Byzantine = Neutral. Was tentative town lean, but today has made me more wary of them.
Meso = Neutral with lean towards scum.
Nani = Neutral, but I don't like their play so far even if I'm not finding anything scummy.

Everyone else hasn't given me enough to go off of yet for any reads, which I don't like because it looks like inactive vets. It might just be me, but it feels like the inexperienced players have generally been more active than the experienced ones.
 
ComiTurtle said:
I've been forced to do some personal stuff, and why I've just had this open, it appears I've been able to sneak away but I'm much further behind on what I wished to reread up to this point...

Ugh... nevermind I don't get to continue rereading...
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it's okay, RL comes first.

On that note I know for a fact QT was around for awhile and didn't post.
 
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