LostDeviljho
Flame Dragon Princess
- Location
- The glorious Pacific Northwest
- Pronouns
- Any
- Location
- United States
- Pronouns
- He/Him
So like I get that this is most certainly a vanilla heavy game, but even fake bleeding statements like "I had a night message that nothing happened" is potentially just giving scum more bullet points to successfully target whatever few power-roles we have. I find it actively unlikely that such statements can lead to town finding town, while it can lead to scum finding town power roles. So I don't think such conversations are positively productive.
- Location
- United States
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Vanillas want to look and sound like power roles to be shields for the real power roles. Lets just hope Technician isn't our cop, I don't know how it could be a cop, but I also don't know what its power could be to be completely honest, its a tech guy so mind goes to Jailer (locking people in rooms or something) but I'm sure there are plenty of other possible powers but that could work, that's just the only one that comes to mind.
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
Hmm. This makes me townread Meso and Comi a bit. Meso was the first to actually say something, so if he was scum it was a serious risk than an actual VT would call him out, which at D2 seems like a big risk to take when there isn't a wagon on him.
Comi because he is right that this is dangerous for whatever Town power roles we have left. Which while common sense seems poor for scum to point out while people are still doing it.
The question was if anyone was told they were roleblocked, because I want to know Scum's power set. It will be useful if we have a cop and we already know scum have three powers - it's unlikely a godfather is getting a second power in a power light game like this one seems to be.
If they don't have a RB they probably have a Strongman, assuming Town has protective roles, which seems to be typical. Either way that scum member, if they exist, is priority one baring any knowledge of which individuals are scum. Particularly after watching town get butchered last game in part because the RB shut them down so thoroughly.
Comi because he is right that this is dangerous for whatever Town power roles we have left. Which while common sense seems poor for scum to point out while people are still doing it.
The question was if anyone was told they were roleblocked, because I want to know Scum's power set. It will be useful if we have a cop and we already know scum have three powers - it's unlikely a godfather is getting a second power in a power light game like this one seems to be.
If they don't have a RB they probably have a Strongman, assuming Town has protective roles, which seems to be typical. Either way that scum member, if they exist, is priority one baring any knowledge of which individuals are scum. Particularly after watching town get butchered last game in part because the RB shut them down so thoroughly.
Nanimani
Probably listening to music
- Pronouns
- She/Her
You know what? I was actually kind of annoyed when I went to get the quote.
But considering this is what I got, yeah, that's fairly obtuse. You can see the line there if you're looking for it, but a cursory readthrough ain't gonna.
This, on the other hand?
Oh boy, let's bring up the quotes!
It occurs to me that both of these posts use a lot of quotes, not just the first, so you probably want to follow the link to the second one too.Right, for some reason, quotes and spoilers don't always mix for me. The little click to expand doesn't happen. So uh. Sorry for the wall, but I know I wouldn't like to be unable to read this. Gonna try to spoil sections that don't have long quotes, but.
So this post is almost exactly 24 hours after day start. Rather early.
Then Rosen comes in to defend the person he's already said he townreads based on the questions responses you yourself called suspicious earlier.
Rosen keeps poking this, while 1K keeps saying that they have a bias against them due to how they typically play, not a noteworthy read. Meanwhile, Rosen keeps treating it as a noteworthy read, up and including voting them when they don't provide reasons from this game as to why that have that bias.
Then BB comes in, asking him for his reads again despite nothing having changed. The results are entirely predictable.
So she says she townreads Rosen again, then is rather confused at 1K's lack of townreading them, then asks for reads again, after the literal things she's responding to here being "I don't have actual reads yet." Reminder that this is after 27 hours of the game. We're not even halfway done with D1.
This post specifically is something she mentioned later as thoughts and impressions are totally different from reads, but I only accept that in a technical sense. If it affects the game, it's a read of some sort, and there's no reason to seek out information not affecting the game.
MEANWHILE
Rosen comes back, notably more aggressive than the person he's defending if you'd notice
Seriously. This fucking quote.
You're asking the same question, getting the same answer with stress that it's not an actual read and shouldn't be followed, but it's the best answer she can give you, and you're treating it like it's 1K that's making the big push here. This is just bad.
Oh but it's fine because after saying that, it's not what's happening now. It's just that what's happening now is on this path and is probably going to devolve into it.
That was sarcasm.
So after 1K calls him out on this, he just kinda doubles down on it.
Also calls 1K actually saying what little she has when asked suspicious and shading again. It's kind of getting old at this point.
Now, then. BB pivots here. Does not want to address this whole argument, let's leave it at that. She's disengaged without bothering to disengage.
Aaaand Rosen follows right onto Daw.
Though it seems I've misremembered, as they go back to 1K a bit after this before starting the Daw push in earnest. Thought this was just the end of it.
Rosen keeps doing the Rosen thing while BB actually changes her reasons here. Reason from her here's definitely better than it was before.
Then 1K comes back in, it's been a good 9 hours I think since the argument started, and comes up with a few itsy reads. Notably, there's a slight nudge towards Daw and again arguing the reads got from Rosen's questions were bad.
Oof, not all of this is relevant but I'm not sure what to cut.
Anyways, some more townreading of Rosen, backing off of 1K firmly (Yeah, I was just wrong about her not posting and disengaging with words), and a couple posts about Byzantine being good and Daw being not-that. For reference, this is the post she didn't see a newbie scum making.
Okay, but why? Why would a newbie scum not make this, but a newbie town would? Feels more like buddying than an actual good argument.
And final argument from BB.
Anyways, after that it settles down. Rosen keeps arguing with 1K, but it's more on his methods and today's questions, which doesn't really read AI to me. BB stays out of that unless I missed something.
This quote's interesting. Basically the one thing BB says about Rosen that isn't visibly townreading him. But in the end, it's just asking someone who's scumreading Rosen who, as far as I can tell, never responds to this question who they'd think was scum with Rosen. Feels like easy setup to a "Hm, but I don't think that's likely because X or Y".
Anyways, and then Daw responds and fuck these walls of posts I have no idea how I'd make that argument readable. Let's at least call this post here.
And fuck it, let's add new material too. Haven't edited notes since... Well, for days. Replaced mentions of BB with Nictis and Daw with Ossha when I found the replacements, but didn't edit the contents then, and haven't done anything during the night.
Anyways, now that we're done with that a bit for a while:
This reads like you're trying to create a chain of falsely lynching town to me.
Also, people's stated reasons all being legitimate does not mean that the play that lead there is definitely anti-town. All D1 and D2 and D3, etc lynches will have people going on about their town reasons for being on the wagon, even if they were wrong. Some'll be legitimate, some might not. That's just every game.
Nanimani
Probably listening to music
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I'm a bit sleepy to be reading through a big infopost like that right now, so I guess I'll stop reading tonight. (Sorry, I'll be honest. Checking on the game completely slipped my mind today. Didn't have anything more important, I just forgot.) What do the red numbers in brackets mean? It'll help when I actually do, you know?
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
Votes to Lynch the person in question. It took me a minute to figure it out at first too.
Nictis
Best Sidekick
- Location
- Ninja Dave's Cookies
- Pronouns
- Any
Narrator: "And then the Rebels killed the cop, because everyone else decided to say they weren't roleblocked."
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
I mean, like I said when I asked the actual question Meso didn't answer as I expected - being RBed does not require a role that can be blocked. Unless Happerry is operating under even more nonstandard rules.
InterstellarHobo
Cosmic Vagrant
- Location
- No Fixed Planetary System
Wait, I don't follow that. Wouldn't succesfully roleblocking the cop imply the Rebels already know who the cop is?
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
...Also, I would hope the cop would be smart enough to fucking lie and agree they got the message. The way Meso said it made it useless for identifying scum since it's so easy to say "yes."
...though if even VT are getting a "Nothing Interesting Happened" then a RB is probably being told if they blocked something or didn't. Shit. Okay, if you got RBed we really need to know.
No. It would mean they got lucky and roleblocked someone who happened to be the cops. RBs are not traditionally told if they blocked anything, or if they did what it was.
...though if even VT are getting a "Nothing Interesting Happened" then a RB is probably being told if they blocked something or didn't. Shit. Okay, if you got RBed we really need to know.
- Location
- United States
- Pronouns
- He/Him
A roleblocker that investigates their target is a very rare and powerful role, most roleblockers just get "you're ability succeeded", "you are confident your target could do nothing during the night", or something along those lines, not something like "you stopped their night action", or "you stopped your target's doctor action".
InterstellarHobo
Cosmic Vagrant
- Location
- No Fixed Planetary System
I am still quite baffled as to how saying who got roleblocked gives away who is cop.
If the rebels already know who cop is, obviously nothing is learned.
If rebels do not know who cop is, then the person they tried to roleblock claiming to have been roleblocked tells them... insofar as I can tell, nothing.
If the rebels already know who cop is, obviously nothing is learned.
If rebels do not know who cop is, then the person they tried to roleblock claiming to have been roleblocked tells them... insofar as I can tell, nothing.
LostDeviljho
Flame Dragon Princess
- Location
- The glorious Pacific Northwest
- Pronouns
- Any
I suspect it's more likely that they get a "you performed your night action" PM, which is how I run RBers in my games.
- Location
- United States
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Yeah this, somehow excluded the simple line in my above post saying, such a role that would cause such fear is insanely unlikely.
InterstellarHobo
Cosmic Vagrant
- Location
- No Fixed Planetary System
Anyways, I'm temporarily satisfied re:Nanimani.
Gonna join the "QT do something" vote until I can work up the motivation to examine someone in depth.
[X] Lynch QTesseract
Gonna join the "QT do something" vote until I can work up the motivation to examine someone in depth.
[X] Lynch QTesseract
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
That's less concerning, then.
I'm mostly worried Happerry may not have considered the implications in a minor oversight, thinking it wasn't a big deal without considering doing so for scum powers has serious advantages. But that's probably not giving him enough credit and me just being a paranoid noob.
Nictis
Best Sidekick
- Location
- Ninja Dave's Cookies
- Pronouns
- Any
... People did not take that the way I was expecting.
With the thread being very quiet and nearly half of the game claiming to have not had any events in the previous night, there can be an assumption that nobody got particularly actionable info. A lookout didn't see the murder, a Cop didn't find someone trustable or scum, etc. People are usually willing to confirm that they got roleblocked just to let everyone know that there is a Roleblocker, because it doesn't actually say anything about your own role or alignment.
Half of the thread stepping up and saying "Nah, nothing here" tells scum something. Getting roleblocked and claiming to have not been roleblocked can lead to the Roleblocker revealing in order to call you out for lying, so people usually don't lie about it. This in combination with the thread being incredibly quiet and a decent portion into the Day really helps narrow targets for them.
Like, five people claimed to have had a quiet night. If we assume that those are all Town, and that the earlier number of three scum is accurate, that knocks down scum's target selection to three people. It's not a guarantee, since there might not be any roles that would give those messages to begin with. It could be that there is no Roleblocker or Jailer. But it still helps them pick out a more likely power role.
One or two people volunteering information isn't too bad, half of the thread deciding to tell everyone what didn't happen isn't helpful to Town.
With the thread being very quiet and nearly half of the game claiming to have not had any events in the previous night, there can be an assumption that nobody got particularly actionable info. A lookout didn't see the murder, a Cop didn't find someone trustable or scum, etc. People are usually willing to confirm that they got roleblocked just to let everyone know that there is a Roleblocker, because it doesn't actually say anything about your own role or alignment.
Half of the thread stepping up and saying "Nah, nothing here" tells scum something. Getting roleblocked and claiming to have not been roleblocked can lead to the Roleblocker revealing in order to call you out for lying, so people usually don't lie about it. This in combination with the thread being incredibly quiet and a decent portion into the Day really helps narrow targets for them.
Like, five people claimed to have had a quiet night. If we assume that those are all Town, and that the earlier number of three scum is accurate, that knocks down scum's target selection to three people. It's not a guarantee, since there might not be any roles that would give those messages to begin with. It could be that there is no Roleblocker or Jailer. But it still helps them pick out a more likely power role.
One or two people volunteering information isn't too bad, half of the thread deciding to tell everyone what didn't happen isn't helpful to Town.
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
I'm basically back to the start in terms of my thoughts. I know I'm town, so I'm having to take everything Rosen said with some serious pinches of salt, because he was barking up at least one wrong tree. Meso seems to have town-slipped earlier (is that a thing?) and otherwise seems too prone to minor errors that have all called him as town.
Unfortunately Meso took it the wrong way and I was wierded out enough by the message I brought it up after he did unthinkingly.
Which is why I asked. I was hoping we would know at least one of scum's powers today.
Unfortunately Meso took it the wrong way and I was wierded out enough by the message I brought it up after he did unthinkingly.
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
I'm on to you, cop-doc-vig-scum!
Nictis
Best Sidekick
- Location
- Ninja Dave's Cookies
- Pronouns
- Any
When you think about it, a Vigilante is like a weak Doctor and Cop.
It can either check the alignment of its target, or keep them alive by not targeting them.
